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Just noticed you have rudolph and santa claus is coming to town.. Maybe consider adding frosty as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.187.188 ( talk) 04:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Can I bring up the question on carols vs. Christmas songs again? In today's version of the article, there are some secular Christmas songs in the American section: Rudolph, Silver Bells, Christmas Song (Chestnuts) and Jingle Bells. I know that the opening paragraph mentions secular Christmas songs, but not all of them are included. To be consistent, should we remove the popular Christmas songs? Yip1982 ( talk) 00:26, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
See Here for one such reference that demarcates the difference between a Christmas Carol from a Popular Christmas Song. [1]
References
37.18.134.184 ( talk) 14:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Can someone with the appropriate permissions please change the spelling of the word 'epithany' in the 'Carol of the Bells' entry to the correct spelling 'epiphany'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hjarrot2 ( talk • contribs) 23:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The differences between Christmas songs and Christmas carols needs to be clearly defined somewhere (see Talk:Christmas carol). - R. fiend 03:52, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Is it relevant in Anglo-saxon world to make a difference between the canticles and the other songs ? In French wikipedia, the list shows three categories : the hymns, the songs with christian reference (often traditional or folk songs) and the non-religious songs. Gwalarn 19:14, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC) (a non-Anglo-Saxon contributor!)
What about Ave maria and Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring? Kingturtle 02:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I would say carols and songs are different, with some overlap, and should be treated as that....though they can be put into the same article 74.108.10.78 22:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I know I have heard a Chirstmas song or carol involving a cat and a mouse. It has stuck with me ever since I heard it that one time on the radio. Recently I've been thinking about it and doing a little web searching. It seems there is a carol called "The Cat and The Mouse Carol", but I have not been able to confirm if it is the same one that I remember or anything else about it.
If anyone knows anything about this carol, it should probably be added to the list. Lilwik 03:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
References
Lyrics in the public domain must be moved to Wikisource s:Category:Christmas_carols -- Altermike 15:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm quite surprised... "Little Christmas Tree" (Nat King Cole) is not in the Non-Religious Christmas Songs list... 124.106.148.10 15:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need the unending list of artists who performed these carols? I am considering removing the performed by sections. Kingturtle ( talk) 16:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Done -- Not there now,
AstroU (
talk)
21:19, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Some of the carols listed as religious are actually non-religious. For example, Twelve Days of Christmas and Deck the Halls may be very traditional, but aren't religious. I suggest moving them to the non-religious category, or creating a new category for them.
References
This article is about Christmas carols, not about Non-Religious Christmas Songs. The latter should be put into List of non-religious Christmas songs. Kingturtle ( talk) 03:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Several of the songs here, though often performed at concerts around Christmas time, are not "Christmas" songs but for that association. "Jingle Bells" and "Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!" come immediately to my mind, but I'm sure there are others. Unless there is some discussion to the contrary and sound reasoning, I'm going to yank them. - SummerPhD ( talk) 15:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Again, I have no problem removing non-Christmas songs, but they should be placed in another article. The non Christmas seasonal songs have a great deal of value to our culture. Kingturtle ( talk) 16:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You know, I don't like the WP:OR jab when none of the entries that you have on List of Christmas carols have any citations from third parties saying they are indeed Christmas carols. Good luck finding sources :) Kingturtle ( talk) 19:57, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, it felt like a jab. But thank you for your explanation. I understand.
Now about this article, I think List of non-religious Christmas songs and List of secular songs associated with Christmas should be their own articles. Non-religious Christmas songs aren't carols and shouldn't be on this article. I am not so worried about finding sources.
Also, I think it is ok to say who first recorded it, but I think the "Also recorded by" part needs to be removed or chopped generously. Kingturtle ( talk) 20:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Since the removal of the non-carols and Non-Christmas Christmas songs (should I create a redirect? ;) ), I've started a restructure. With all of the various Language X sections, the original portion seemed to be kind of hanging. So, I've started sorting them by language.
A number of the English songs (such as "Bring a Torch...") were listed in that section, but as "Language X traditional". Clearly, "Bring a Torch..." is an English translation, using the same/similar music as the original. I've made some of the changes to that effect.
Bolding the songs was unique to the English section. IMO, it also made it hard to read. I've removed the bolding.
There are still a number of questionable inclusions. For example, does Trans Siberian Orchestra's "Christmas Canon" have lyrics? If so, are they religious? If not (no lyrics or secular lyrics), is this a carol?
Comments are welcome. - SummerPhD ( talk) 14:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Turning it into a chart would make the list more streamlined and easier to read. How about this format?
Carol | Composer | Lyricist | Year published | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
" Angels from the Realms of Glory" | James Montgomery | 1816 | ||
" Angels We Have Heard on High" | traditional hymn "Gloria" | English translation by James Chadwick | 1862 | based on French traditional carol "Les Anges dans nos Campagnes" |
Ideas? Comments? Kingturtle ( talk) 18:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
How about like this? Kingturtle ( talk) 20:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Carol | Composer /Lyricist | Year published | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
" Angels from the Realms of Glory" | Lyrics by James Montgomery | 1816 | |
" Angels We Have Heard on High" | traditional hymn "Gloria"; English translation by James Chadwick | 1862 | based on French traditional carol "Les Anges dans nos Campagnes" |
Works for me! I'm going to put up an "inuse" tag for a minute right now and see how many additional songs have articles that aren't currently linked. Any thoughts on an inclusion standard for this article? - SummerPhD ( talk) 17:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Looking good. When you're done, I'll create some more charts. Kingturtle ( talk) 18:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Someone recently posted that this formatting "looked ridiculous" and was entirely anglo-centric. I just placed some French titles on there, and I have to agree that I think there may be a better solution. What if we made a sortable table (as suggested by above mentioned poster) with (1) English title (or translated into English - this is the English wikipedia obviously) (2) original language title (when applicable), then the remaining columns of composer, date, and notes? Then ppl could sort it as they saw fit (by title, origin, date, etc.) and we'd have one substantial table. Thoughts? Portia1780 ( talk) 23:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
As there has been no discussion on this issue, I'm boldly assuming that my proposal is acceptable. Barring further discussion, songs are not notable enough for inclusion in this article unless they have individual articles. - SummerPhD ( talk) 19:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a list of Christmas Carols; not a list of notable Christmas Carols. All Carols should be included. We should take a loose definition of carol as being any song that glorifies Jesus Christ's birth. Any song that glorifies Jesus Christ's birth should be counted as worthy of inclusion in this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.21.191 ( talk) 00:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The music is here: [4] http://www.christmas-carol-music.org/Index_of_Titles.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.21.191 ( talk) 00:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I_Saw_3_Ships has been recorded by some notable people.
One of my favorite Christmas carol numbers is: “This Little Babe” ( Benjamin Britten ( A Ceremony of Carols)) Date=February 20, 2012 (1:36min) Maîtrise de Radio France. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Tux6tixN0
Mary's Boy Child and Mary's Little Boy Child both linked to the same article which was titled Mary's Boy Child, so I removed the line for Mary's Little Boy Child and added it in brackets in the line below. Cheers, JenLouise ( talk) 09:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, the note about editing protection is from the end of 2008 and says it is only for 2 weeks - is it time to remove it? JenLouise ( talk) 09:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems unclear what the rationale is for organising the list and it needs to be stated in the intro. It looks at first that listing is according to original language of the words, but doesn't seem to follow that clearly. Many foreign language carols seem to be listed under English. Can we make it clearer?-- Mervyn ( talk) 13:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Done -- Now, broken down by language. --
AstroU (
talk)
21:05, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
I noticed song songs like " Where Are You, Christmas?" by Faith Hill of the "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" soundtrack, " Wonderful Christmas Time" by Paul McCartney and Wings, " Thank God It's Christmas" by Queen, and others are not the list. Would they be on another list. If so, where is that list? Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 19:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Is "Winter Wonderland" really a Christmas carol? The article on Winter Wonderland describes the song as a "Christmas time pop classic" rather than a carol, and I do wonder whether it should be in this list. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 23:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I removed Christmas Lights by Coldplay, because there's really no sense in which that's a Christmas carol rather than just a Christmas pop song. It belongs elsewhere. 86.183.77.237 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
I have deleted the note stating that "Auld Lang Syne" "famously" appears at the end of It's A Wonderful Life. The idea that this is significant, let alone the most (or even a) notable feature of such a universally renowned song is misguided and parochial, betraying the writer's ignorance more than his knowledge. 77.100.218.86 ( talk) 13:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
This is a much desired suggestion by someone who's not as Wikipedia savvy as I'd like to be. I wasn't sure where exactly to offer this suggestion but this seemed like the most logical place I could find. Basically, if you go to the "English" section of songs on the article, then scroll down to "Rocking Carol", you will find there is no Wikipedia article about this song, only a link to another website that talks about it. I searched and searched and searched, and there is absolutely nothing here on Wikipedia, not even a stub. This is a very famous, well known song, especially compared to some of the other lesser-known ones that have their own articles. The only place on Wikipedia I could even find mention of it is here, on this article, and again, all there is is a link to another site. Take a listen to refresh your memory about this song in case you're not familiar: " Rocking Carol" Somebody please make a stub or something about this beautiful, popular song. I'd do it myself if I felt like spending the energy on learning how to do it. Maybe I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YouarelovedSOmuch ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Well, all these years later, here we are again. Yes, we have songs that are not carols on the list. A carol is "a religious folk song or popular hymn". [5] "Deck the Halls" (even if marginally about Christmas...sort of) is in no sense religious or a hymn. "Auld Lang Syne" is neither a carol nor about Christmas (someone was editing while drink?).
Along with that, we have numerous songs that are not notable. While we tried to hash this out years ago, we now have Template:Uw-badlistentry, which reads "Hello. Your recent edit appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you."
Granted, there is not a policy that directly excludes non-notable entries. However, we need something clear here. If my niece writes a Christmas song mentioning "Jesus" we can certainly argue it's a Christmas carol. It does not, however, belong on this list. Furthermore, without substantial coverage in reliable sources, we really have no way to determine that the song is as carol (rather than another "Sleigh Ride", "Deck the Halls", etc.
Comments? - SummerPhD ( talk) 16:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Agree, it needs clearer intro about defining a carol - e.g inclusion in a notable anthology of carols. Also need to refine criteria about under which language a carol is listed. -- Mervyn ( talk) 10:54, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Happy New Year 2015 ... How does the inclusion criteria look now? I think the lede here is good (1) what is included, (2) what is not, (3) definition, and (4) link to Christmas_Carol to amplify the definition, as a subset of Christmas music. As it now stands, "A Christmas carol is a carol whose lyrics center on the theme of Christmas or that has become associated with the Christmas season even though its lyrics may not specifically refer to Christmas. Both types of Christmas carols are included in this list. Traditional Christmas carols are deeply religious, mainly focusing on the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus. ..." and from the Christmas carol page, "A Christmas carol (also called a noël) is a carol (song or hymn) whose lyrics are on the theme of Christmas, and which is traditionally sung on Christmas itself or during the surrounding holiday season. Christmas carols may be regarded as a subset of the broader category of Christmas music." There is deep meaning in the carols, where wise men still seek him. -- AstroU ( talk) 20:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I have included five Irish traditional carols and one Catalan carol. When I originally added them, they were removed by ClueBot NG citing possible vandalism. I reported this false positive removal and added them again. Three of the Irish carols are in the English language and two are in the Irish language. The English language carols include:
The Irish language carols include:
The Catalan Carol includes:
I like the idea of this list, as the Christmas carol occupies a significant place in the development of western music, and I think a good start has been made. That said, the article needs a considerable amount of work.
Indeed? Yet in the "English" section I find Bring a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella, the original language of which was almost certainly French; Deck the Hall, originally in Welsh; Glory to God (Dutch); "Good King Wenceslas (probably Moravian or Slovakian); Huron Carol (oirginally in Huron); In Dulci Jubilo (Latin); O Christmas Tree (German); Silent Night (German); etc.
If the intent is really to organize the list by original language, all of these (and a few others) need to be moved from the "English" section to more appropriate places. There are similar problems in some of the other language charts.
Speaking from 16 years experience with maintaining a database of more than 2000 ethnic and popular Christmas songs, I would suggest that charting by language isn't, perhaps, the most useful way to organize this list. A better approach might be to list all songs alphabetically, by most popular title, then give the likely ethnic origin in the next column. (Ethnic origin tends to be easier to uncover than original language.)
I would suggest also that a column be added to provide alternate titles by which the tune is known in other countries, as many of these tunes are quite commonly known by two or three different names. This could be a single chart, or it could be separated into sections by letters of the alphabet.
A goodly number of entries in this list are not "carols" by the musical definition (e.g. Away in a Manger; Silent Night; O Tannenbaum; Angels From the Realms of Glory; In Dulci Jubilo, and many others).
These are, of course, very popular Christmas songs, and have been for a long time, so you may want to rethink calling this a list of carols, and instead call it a list of Christmas Songs.
Perhaps "List of Traditional Christmas Songs" -- I 'll leave it to others to quibble over the meaning of "traditional". :)
Many of these tunes have nonetheless become so associated in the modern mind with the Christmas season that it would probably be counterproductive to remove them. Including them with an appropriate comment -- as has been partly done -- is, I think, a good idea.
This does, however, raise the question of whether certain other songs should be included. For example, as of right now, perhaps the most iconic "Christmas" song of all time is Jingle Bells -- which says nothing at all about Christmas, and was originally composed for Thanksgiving. Yet so iconic has this song become, that a musician, composer, playwright, or film-maker who wants to suggest "Christmas" in the minds of his/her audience -- in any context, and at any time of year -- has only to quote the first six notes of Jingle Bells to produce the desired effect in most listeners.
One possible argument for excluding tunes like Jingle Bells would be to specify that the list only include religiously themed songs -- but in that case Deck the Hall and the Ukranian Bell Carol would also have to go, for the sake of consistency.
And that, really, is the bottom line: consistency.
Right now the list seriously lacks consistency. It would be a better, more useful article, were it more consistent.
Oh, and BTW, just or the record, Guadete -- which is a Christmas carol by practically any definition -- wasn't "popularized by Steeleye Span in 1973". Re - popularized, perhaps, but it was popularized about 400 years before most of the members of Steeleye Span were born. ;)
74.95.43.249 ( talk) 21:04, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
As a specific example of trouble, I note: "Away in a Manger" is attributed to Martin Luther in English, but no counterpart is attributed to him in Latin or German. Huh????? By way of contrast, "Angels We Have Heard on High" is cited as being a translation of a French carol, and "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" as a translation of "Adestes Fideles". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.230.119 ( talk) 08:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
There needs to be a clean up on many of the sections. For example
The second paragraph of the current article states:
I think the confusion around Christmas Carols and the legitimacy of some of the Carols mentioned above might be circumvented if it is added that there are Twelve Days of Christmas (also known as Twelvetide) and similar to Christmastide and from the 25th December to the 5th/6th of January they are celebrated, hence the reason why many Christmas Carols can be related to St Stephen's Day (26th December), St John's Day (27th December), Feast of Holy Innocents (28th December), St Sylvester's Day (31st December), and right up to the Epiphany. I can put this in if no one has a problem with it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.202.203 ( talk) 19:44, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest an organization by ethnic or cultural origin/prevalence, rather than by language. There are several reasons for taking this approach:
If trouble is going to be taken to include a separate category for the Huron carol, then there really has to be a separate category for "American" as well. Many of the carols currently lumped under "English" are distinctly American in origin, and often in sentiment:
Away In A Manger; Children, Go Where I Send Thee; A Christmas Carol; Go Tell It On The Mountain; Jingle Bells; The Little Drummer Boy; It Came Upon A Midnight Clear; I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day; I Wonder As I Wander; O Little Town of Bethlehem; Rise Up Shepherd and Foller; We Three Kings
There are other issues with the article, but the chief one I see is that of organizational consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 ( talk) 22:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Click on this to see example of possible sortable table of Christmas Carols
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References
Why are the translations of the Romanian carols not given? Vorbee ( talk) 18:25, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
"Jingle Bells" is not a Christmas song/carol. It has no references to Christmas in it. It's like "Frosty The Snowman," "Winter Wonderland," and "Let It Snow." Sure it's standard to sing them around the holidays, but they don't have anything to do with Christmas. So why is "Jingle Bells" listed? I know this has been discussed before, but it seems as though no resolution was found. Removing "Jingle Bells" isn't controversial, but due diligence. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 03:37, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Not sure if I'm putting this in the right place, but wondering if someone could please add Australian Christmas carols to the list. There's a lot of them, a few well known ones can be found here https://www.australiantimes.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/10-greatest-ever-australian-christmas-songs/ but with terrible examples of them being sung) In particular
- "Carol of the Birds (Orana)" & "The Three Drovers" are very well known Aussie carols to all school children & performed at almost every end of year/Christmas primary school concert
- "The Wiggles" songs such as "go santa go" & "santa wear your shorts" are sung to 100,000 people live each year, along with millions of tv viewers at the Sydney Carols by Candlelight & just as much staples to Aussie kids as Jingle bells or Rudolf the red nose reindeer are
- "Santa Never Made It into Darwin" reached number 2 on the Australian music charts /info/en/?search=Bill_and_Boyd
- Rolf Harris's "6 white boomers" is also an old staple
Christmas in Australia is in the middle of summer, so replacements are needed for carols that other countries sing that relate to snow & cold, so we have a lot of locally written ones, the above being some of the most universal ones — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.211.105.8 ( talk) 15:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed errors in the list for English Carols, and I have corrected for these errors but they have continuously been reverted by User:Walter Görlitz to its inaccurate state. These errors included carols misplaced in the English section and songs that should not be on the list.
The first issue is related to a confusion of the Carol Star of the East where there are two Carols (one American and the other English) that are known by the same name. The English carol is better known as Brightest and Best and was written by Reginald Heber in 1811, however the version listed in the English section directs to the American carol, Star to the East, along with the information that cites German Alfred Hans Zoller as writing the song under the title Stern über Bethlehem (Star above Bethlehem), with American George Cooper translating the words in 1890, and music by Amanda Kennedy in 1883. I moved this carol to the American Section where it is recognised as belonging to and added the information related to the English carol known as Brightest and Best to the English section with a note accompanying both Carols to Not to confuse with each other. The two Carols are completely different Hear the American carol here and the English carol here
The second issue is in reference to songs that do not belong in the English section and/or are not related to Christmas. These songs included: Mary, Did You Know? which lists "words from American Mark Lowry, and music by Buddy Greene" I Pray on Christmas which lists "written and by Harry Connick Jr." Both songs are American written and produced and if it is to be included should be in the American section and not the English.
In reference to the first song Mary, Did You Know?, this song is not related to the birth of Jesus (Christmas) but rather his death and resurrection (Easter), despite its wiki article claiming to be about Christmas, the song does not make mention of the nativity but rather his dying to save us all ( listen to the song here). The Second song I Pray on Christmas by Harry Connick Jr. is a popular Christmas song ( Listen Here). if this song is valid in this list then so are songs like All I Want for Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey, and Fairytale of New York by The Pogues
This needs to be changed with the relevant songs associated with the American section moved there and those associated to the English section moved to that section. The removal of these popular songs needs to occur. They can appear the Popular Christmas Song list and User:Walter Görlitz needs to cease reverting valid changes. If he is adamant of these songs appearing on the list and in the sections he keeps reverting to, then he needs to provide citations to back up his argument as specified in WP:RS
So just to reiterate, you were wrong that "Mary Don't You Know" is a Christmas-themed song. I don't know if it is a carol or not, it is both Christmas and has appeared in at least two hymnals. The other song is clearly associated with Christmas, but I have no further knowledge of it. I suggest that you ask the individuals who added it (as you have been challenged, and at this point, WP:STATUSQUO would apply) or find a broader consensus. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
User:Walter Görlitz I see you are still trying to WP:GAME. I addressed your questions on "Mary, Did You Know?" multiple times, making it clear that while it was a Christian Song, it was not related to Christmas as there is no mention in the lyrics of the events of the nativity, (not to mention Christmastide and Twelvetide), however you disagree and have made spurious claims trying to link to the lyrics of the song.
The "Huron Carol" ("Jesous Ahatonhia") is listed under American carols. However, when you go to the page about the Huron Carol, it is cited as a Canadian carol, having been written in 1642 by French Jesuit missionary Jean de Brébeuf. The original language of the carol is Huron/Wendat with the carol later translated into English. (I wonder if there is a French-language version.)
I can make this change, but I wonder if I should add it as a Canadian carol or an Indigenous-language carol (or even specifically a North American Indigenous-language or Huron/Wendat-language carol). Or can it be added to both categories (which would mean creating two new categories)?
I'd appreciate guidance on this from a more experienced Wikipedia editor.
Thank you for your input. Bayonett ( talk) 15:37, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Can I discuss the inclusion of the secular American Christmas songs in the list of American carols? Currently, it includes Jingle Bells, Christmas Song (Chestnuts), Silver Bells and Rudolph. I am aware that the opening paragraph mentions the Christmas songs that focus on secular themes. However, in previous discussions on this page, the previous contributors made a distinction between the different kinds of songs for Christmas. If these few secular songs are included, would we need to go ahead an include Frosty, White Christmas, Let It Snow, I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day and other secular songs of that kind? It's a question of consistency. Yip1982 ( talk) 12:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
One such Reliable Source that demarcates the difference between a Christmas Carol from a Popular Christmas Song can be viewed here. [1]
References
This article should remain close to how a Christmas Carol is defined in the Christmas Carol wiki article. 37.18.134.184 ( talk) 16:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if you could address an issue that pertains to the American carols with multiple tunes. In the American section, the entries for O Little Town and Away in a Manger have the different tunes mentioned under their entries. However, It Came Upon the Midnight Clear is another carol that has multiple tunes. I am aware that the Sears text and the Willis tune were created in America. However, congregations and choirs in the UK and the Commonwealth countries sing this text to a different tune, "Noel", adapted and arranged by Sullivan. Again this is a question of consistency. Why do we mention the UK "Forest Green" tune for O Little Town but not the UK tune for It Came Upon the Midnight Clear? Shouldn't we mention the preferred UK tunes for these texts in the section on UK-origin carols? Yip1982 ( talk) 12:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Title | Lyricist | Language | Music | Notes | Ref |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
"Leise rieselt der Schnee" | Eduard Ebel | German | Leise rieselt der Schnee (Daniel Gottlob Türk or Eduard Ebel) | Title translation: "Softly Falls Every Snow Flake", c. 1895 | [1] [2] |
References
I have added the following, for the intro which I think gives a definition on what is listed here and on the consensus reached some years ago. It is fully cited with Wikipedia:Reliable sources. If anyone has any better cited sources, then please feel free to contribute.
This is a list of Christmas carols that is organized by the carol’s country and/or language of origin. The
operational definition of what constitutes a Christmas carol and therefore inclusion on this list is as follows.
Christmas carols (or Noëls as they are sometimes referred to, especially for carols of French origin) [1], are a subset within the category of Christmas music. Other subsets of this music that are often erroneously conflated with Christmas carols consist of popular Christmas songs (also referred to as Christmas anthems), Christmas novelty songs, Winter/ solstice songs, New year carols (also referred to as Wassails), Annunciation carols, Advent carols and Epiphany carols. [2] The lyrics and melody determine the genre of a musical composition [3], and while all subsets of Christmas music may be traditionally sung at Christmas and/or during the Christmas holiday season, not all forms of Christmas music are carols. [4] The difference between a carol and a popular song is that a carol is a festive song, oratorio, or hymn that correspond with the Liturgical calendar, frequently performed by carollers or a choir, and that is often religious and/or spiritual but not necessarily connected with church worship, while a popular song can be festive but is generally secular in nature and is usually performed by a solo artist, duet, trio or a band. [5] [6] [7] [8] Another difference between Christmas carols and other subsets such as popular Christmas songs, Christmas novelty songs and winter/solstice songs is that, while carols are written for non-profit to spread a message of hope and unity between family and friends, other forms of music associated with Christmas tend to reflect the composer's personal experiences, often target children, and they are commercialized for entertainment purposes, with the goal to make a profit. [9] [10] Traditional Christmas carols celebrate the Christian events of the nativity and the Holy Family and as a result many carols were composed as lullabies for the infant Jesus, [11] [12] examples of which include Silent Night, The Rocking Carol, Tàladh Chrìosda (Christ's lullaby), Suantraí na Maighdine (The Virgin's Lullaby) and Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Night).
While other subsets of carols are religious in nature (such as Passiontide carols, and Easter carols), with some forming part of Christmas music (such as Annunciation carols, Advent carols, and Epiphany carols), none of them are Christmas carols. [6] However, some Annunciation carols and Advent carols are often miscategorised as Christmas carols. [12] Examples of Annunciation carols consist of Angelus ad virginem, Ave Maria, gratia plena, Gabriel's Message, and The Cherry-Tree Carol, [13] while examples of Advent carols include Adam lay ybounden, Lo! He comes with clouds descending, Lo, how a rose e'er blooming, O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, and The truth sent from above. [13] Similarly carols unrelated to the birth of Jesus such as Good King Wenceslas (a carol for St. Stephen's Day) and Epiphany carols are often unwittingly incorporated into Christmas carols due to the celebration of Twelve Days of Christmas which ranges from the 25 December to 5 January or Christmastide which ranges from the 24 December to 5 January. [6] As a result, many misconstrued Christmas carols can be related to St Stephen's Day (26 December), St John's Day (27 December), Feast of Holy Innocents (28 December), St Sylvester's Day (31 December), and the Epiphany (also known as little/old Christmas, and/or Three Kings Day). [12] Examples of Epiphany carols include As with Gladness Men of Old, We Three Kings, The Shepard's Farewell, and The Three Kings. [13]
Further confusion is engendered with the application of the term 'carol' in reference to New Year's carols, as carols are religious and related to the birth of Jesus, while New Year's carols are performed for a generally secular celebration, Twelfth Night (a festival not too dissimilar to Yule), that coincides with the eve of Epiphany and includes some songs that have no religious reference at all, such as Deck the Halls and The Twelve Days of Christmas. [4] [14] However, these subset of songs (also referred to as Wassails) were performed during Wassailing, where groups of people would go house-to-house singing and wishing good health to the occupier in exchange of an alcoholic beverage of the same name, Wassail. [4] [15] Another group of singers, that did have some authority from local governance to perform, known as "Waits", sang as part of " Watchnight" which is New Year's Eve. [16] Examples of other New Year's carols often conflated as Christmas carols consist of A New Year Carol, Here We Come A-wassailing, Gloucestershire Wassail, We Wish You a Merry Christmas, and What Cheer?. [13] Other songs that are not grouped with New Year's carols nor make any specific reference to the nativity or the Holy Family, but are falsely considered to be Christmas carols include Ding Dong Merrily on High (about bells and angels), and O Christmas Tree (which is a mistranslation from its German original, O Tannenbaum, meaning Fir tree). [14]
In recent years, the term 'carol' has become even more distorted and complicated to identify, due in part to the global marketing success by the United States of portraying Christmas within conditions many northern parts of the U.S. may encounter, such as a cold wintery climate with snow, frost, and/or ice. [2] [17] While Christmas in the Northern Hemisphere occurs in Winter, Christmas in the Southern Hemisphere takes places in the Summer. [18] Winter/solstice songs misconstrued as Christmas carols usually reflect the weather conditions and experiences of specific regions within the Northern Hemisphere, while also making no reference to Christmas. [2] [17] Examples of Winter/solstice songs include Jingle Bells (written for Thanksgiving), Frosty the Snowman, Suzy Snowflake, and Once Upon a Wintertime. [2] Additionally, the successful marketing by U.S. companies, combining music with created characters that targeted children for financial reward has contributed to the erroneous conflation of novelty Christmas songs with Christmas Carols. [2] [17] Examples of novelty Christmas songs include Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town, Here Comes Santa Claus, Jolly Old St. Nicholas and You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch. [2]
This list will focus upon Christmas Carols in its traditional definition as specified and cited above. This list is not exhaustive.
References
37.18.134.184 ( talk) 16:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
As my wife leads preparations for our annual Christmas music program, I just want to thank everyone for all of the great musical options. As Stake Music Chair, she will communicate with the ten Ward Music Chairmen some of the best selections, such as "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen." We always find the JOY of the season. AstroU ( talk) 14:02, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have been unavailable until today. There's really a simpler solution than arguing about what does and does not constitute a carol: we simply move this article to a different title. While I agree with MichaelMaggs' suggestions, it's also very simple to change the location of this article to something "list of Christmas carols and songs". Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
The above advent chant is neither a carol nor strictly Christmas. Should it really be on this list and should this list be linked from it? Martin of Sheffield ( talk) 12:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
CAROL. The history of this word presents a remarkable parallel to that of the kindred term Ballad. Both originally implied dancing : both are now used simply to denote a kind of song. In old French, Carole signified a peculiar kind of dance in a ring. This dance gave its name to the song by which it was accompanied : and so the word passed, in one or both of these senses, into most of the languages of Western Europe.
In the English of Chaucer carolling is some- times dancing and sometimes singing. In modern usage a carol may be defined as a kind of popular song appropriated to some special season of the ecclesiastical or natural year. There are, or were, Welsh summer carols, and winter carols ; there are also Easter carols ; but the only species which remains in general use, and requires a more detailed examination, is the Christmas carol.
Christmas carols then are songs or ballads to be used during the Christmas season, in reference to the festival, under one or other of its aspects.
OK. Here's why I did what I did. All the other lists are defined by language, except English. Since there is huge crossover in music between the USA and the UK, it made sense to merge them and keep the format consistent. Serendi pod ous 18:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
The heading "Scottish" really ought too be "Gaelic". There are three languages natively spoken in Scotland: Gaelic, Scots and Scottish English. Do others agree? Martin of Sheffield ( talk) 20:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
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Just noticed you have rudolph and santa claus is coming to town.. Maybe consider adding frosty as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.187.188 ( talk) 04:18, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Can I bring up the question on carols vs. Christmas songs again? In today's version of the article, there are some secular Christmas songs in the American section: Rudolph, Silver Bells, Christmas Song (Chestnuts) and Jingle Bells. I know that the opening paragraph mentions secular Christmas songs, but not all of them are included. To be consistent, should we remove the popular Christmas songs? Yip1982 ( talk) 00:26, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
See Here for one such reference that demarcates the difference between a Christmas Carol from a Popular Christmas Song. [1]
References
37.18.134.184 ( talk) 14:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Can someone with the appropriate permissions please change the spelling of the word 'epithany' in the 'Carol of the Bells' entry to the correct spelling 'epiphany'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hjarrot2 ( talk • contribs) 23:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The differences between Christmas songs and Christmas carols needs to be clearly defined somewhere (see Talk:Christmas carol). - R. fiend 03:52, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Is it relevant in Anglo-saxon world to make a difference between the canticles and the other songs ? In French wikipedia, the list shows three categories : the hymns, the songs with christian reference (often traditional or folk songs) and the non-religious songs. Gwalarn 19:14, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC) (a non-Anglo-Saxon contributor!)
What about Ave maria and Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring? Kingturtle 02:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I would say carols and songs are different, with some overlap, and should be treated as that....though they can be put into the same article 74.108.10.78 22:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I know I have heard a Chirstmas song or carol involving a cat and a mouse. It has stuck with me ever since I heard it that one time on the radio. Recently I've been thinking about it and doing a little web searching. It seems there is a carol called "The Cat and The Mouse Carol", but I have not been able to confirm if it is the same one that I remember or anything else about it.
If anyone knows anything about this carol, it should probably be added to the list. Lilwik 03:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
References
Lyrics in the public domain must be moved to Wikisource s:Category:Christmas_carols -- Altermike 15:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm quite surprised... "Little Christmas Tree" (Nat King Cole) is not in the Non-Religious Christmas Songs list... 124.106.148.10 15:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Do we really need the unending list of artists who performed these carols? I am considering removing the performed by sections. Kingturtle ( talk) 16:29, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Done -- Not there now,
AstroU (
talk)
21:19, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Some of the carols listed as religious are actually non-religious. For example, Twelve Days of Christmas and Deck the Halls may be very traditional, but aren't religious. I suggest moving them to the non-religious category, or creating a new category for them.
References
This article is about Christmas carols, not about Non-Religious Christmas Songs. The latter should be put into List of non-religious Christmas songs. Kingturtle ( talk) 03:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Several of the songs here, though often performed at concerts around Christmas time, are not "Christmas" songs but for that association. "Jingle Bells" and "Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!" come immediately to my mind, but I'm sure there are others. Unless there is some discussion to the contrary and sound reasoning, I'm going to yank them. - SummerPhD ( talk) 15:35, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
Again, I have no problem removing non-Christmas songs, but they should be placed in another article. The non Christmas seasonal songs have a great deal of value to our culture. Kingturtle ( talk) 16:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You know, I don't like the WP:OR jab when none of the entries that you have on List of Christmas carols have any citations from third parties saying they are indeed Christmas carols. Good luck finding sources :) Kingturtle ( talk) 19:57, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, it felt like a jab. But thank you for your explanation. I understand.
Now about this article, I think List of non-religious Christmas songs and List of secular songs associated with Christmas should be their own articles. Non-religious Christmas songs aren't carols and shouldn't be on this article. I am not so worried about finding sources.
Also, I think it is ok to say who first recorded it, but I think the "Also recorded by" part needs to be removed or chopped generously. Kingturtle ( talk) 20:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Since the removal of the non-carols and Non-Christmas Christmas songs (should I create a redirect? ;) ), I've started a restructure. With all of the various Language X sections, the original portion seemed to be kind of hanging. So, I've started sorting them by language.
A number of the English songs (such as "Bring a Torch...") were listed in that section, but as "Language X traditional". Clearly, "Bring a Torch..." is an English translation, using the same/similar music as the original. I've made some of the changes to that effect.
Bolding the songs was unique to the English section. IMO, it also made it hard to read. I've removed the bolding.
There are still a number of questionable inclusions. For example, does Trans Siberian Orchestra's "Christmas Canon" have lyrics? If so, are they religious? If not (no lyrics or secular lyrics), is this a carol?
Comments are welcome. - SummerPhD ( talk) 14:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Turning it into a chart would make the list more streamlined and easier to read. How about this format?
Carol | Composer | Lyricist | Year published | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|
" Angels from the Realms of Glory" | James Montgomery | 1816 | ||
" Angels We Have Heard on High" | traditional hymn "Gloria" | English translation by James Chadwick | 1862 | based on French traditional carol "Les Anges dans nos Campagnes" |
Ideas? Comments? Kingturtle ( talk) 18:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
How about like this? Kingturtle ( talk) 20:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Carol | Composer /Lyricist | Year published | Notes |
---|---|---|---|
" Angels from the Realms of Glory" | Lyrics by James Montgomery | 1816 | |
" Angels We Have Heard on High" | traditional hymn "Gloria"; English translation by James Chadwick | 1862 | based on French traditional carol "Les Anges dans nos Campagnes" |
Works for me! I'm going to put up an "inuse" tag for a minute right now and see how many additional songs have articles that aren't currently linked. Any thoughts on an inclusion standard for this article? - SummerPhD ( talk) 17:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Looking good. When you're done, I'll create some more charts. Kingturtle ( talk) 18:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Someone recently posted that this formatting "looked ridiculous" and was entirely anglo-centric. I just placed some French titles on there, and I have to agree that I think there may be a better solution. What if we made a sortable table (as suggested by above mentioned poster) with (1) English title (or translated into English - this is the English wikipedia obviously) (2) original language title (when applicable), then the remaining columns of composer, date, and notes? Then ppl could sort it as they saw fit (by title, origin, date, etc.) and we'd have one substantial table. Thoughts? Portia1780 ( talk) 23:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
As there has been no discussion on this issue, I'm boldly assuming that my proposal is acceptable. Barring further discussion, songs are not notable enough for inclusion in this article unless they have individual articles. - SummerPhD ( talk) 19:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a list of Christmas Carols; not a list of notable Christmas Carols. All Carols should be included. We should take a loose definition of carol as being any song that glorifies Jesus Christ's birth. Any song that glorifies Jesus Christ's birth should be counted as worthy of inclusion in this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.21.191 ( talk) 00:27, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
The music is here: [4] http://www.christmas-carol-music.org/Index_of_Titles.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.21.191 ( talk) 00:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I_Saw_3_Ships has been recorded by some notable people.
One of my favorite Christmas carol numbers is: “This Little Babe” ( Benjamin Britten ( A Ceremony of Carols)) Date=February 20, 2012 (1:36min) Maîtrise de Radio France. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Tux6tixN0
Mary's Boy Child and Mary's Little Boy Child both linked to the same article which was titled Mary's Boy Child, so I removed the line for Mary's Little Boy Child and added it in brackets in the line below. Cheers, JenLouise ( talk) 09:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, the note about editing protection is from the end of 2008 and says it is only for 2 weeks - is it time to remove it? JenLouise ( talk) 09:05, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems unclear what the rationale is for organising the list and it needs to be stated in the intro. It looks at first that listing is according to original language of the words, but doesn't seem to follow that clearly. Many foreign language carols seem to be listed under English. Can we make it clearer?-- Mervyn ( talk) 13:15, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Done -- Now, broken down by language. --
AstroU (
talk)
21:05, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
I noticed song songs like " Where Are You, Christmas?" by Faith Hill of the "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" soundtrack, " Wonderful Christmas Time" by Paul McCartney and Wings, " Thank God It's Christmas" by Queen, and others are not the list. Would they be on another list. If so, where is that list? Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 19:09, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Is "Winter Wonderland" really a Christmas carol? The article on Winter Wonderland describes the song as a "Christmas time pop classic" rather than a carol, and I do wonder whether it should be in this list. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 23:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I removed Christmas Lights by Coldplay, because there's really no sense in which that's a Christmas carol rather than just a Christmas pop song. It belongs elsewhere. 86.183.77.237 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:14, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
I have deleted the note stating that "Auld Lang Syne" "famously" appears at the end of It's A Wonderful Life. The idea that this is significant, let alone the most (or even a) notable feature of such a universally renowned song is misguided and parochial, betraying the writer's ignorance more than his knowledge. 77.100.218.86 ( talk) 13:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
This is a much desired suggestion by someone who's not as Wikipedia savvy as I'd like to be. I wasn't sure where exactly to offer this suggestion but this seemed like the most logical place I could find. Basically, if you go to the "English" section of songs on the article, then scroll down to "Rocking Carol", you will find there is no Wikipedia article about this song, only a link to another website that talks about it. I searched and searched and searched, and there is absolutely nothing here on Wikipedia, not even a stub. This is a very famous, well known song, especially compared to some of the other lesser-known ones that have their own articles. The only place on Wikipedia I could even find mention of it is here, on this article, and again, all there is is a link to another site. Take a listen to refresh your memory about this song in case you're not familiar: " Rocking Carol" Somebody please make a stub or something about this beautiful, popular song. I'd do it myself if I felt like spending the energy on learning how to do it. Maybe I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YouarelovedSOmuch ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Well, all these years later, here we are again. Yes, we have songs that are not carols on the list. A carol is "a religious folk song or popular hymn". [5] "Deck the Halls" (even if marginally about Christmas...sort of) is in no sense religious or a hymn. "Auld Lang Syne" is neither a carol nor about Christmas (someone was editing while drink?).
Along with that, we have numerous songs that are not notable. While we tried to hash this out years ago, we now have Template:Uw-badlistentry, which reads "Hello. Your recent edit appears to have added the name of a non-notable entity to a list that normally includes only notable entries. In general, a person or organization added to a list should have a pre-existing article before being added to most lists. If you wish to create such an article, please first confirm that the subject qualifies for a separate, stand-alone article according to Wikipedia's notability guideline. Thank you."
Granted, there is not a policy that directly excludes non-notable entries. However, we need something clear here. If my niece writes a Christmas song mentioning "Jesus" we can certainly argue it's a Christmas carol. It does not, however, belong on this list. Furthermore, without substantial coverage in reliable sources, we really have no way to determine that the song is as carol (rather than another "Sleigh Ride", "Deck the Halls", etc.
Comments? - SummerPhD ( talk) 16:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Agree, it needs clearer intro about defining a carol - e.g inclusion in a notable anthology of carols. Also need to refine criteria about under which language a carol is listed. -- Mervyn ( talk) 10:54, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Happy New Year 2015 ... How does the inclusion criteria look now? I think the lede here is good (1) what is included, (2) what is not, (3) definition, and (4) link to Christmas_Carol to amplify the definition, as a subset of Christmas music. As it now stands, "A Christmas carol is a carol whose lyrics center on the theme of Christmas or that has become associated with the Christmas season even though its lyrics may not specifically refer to Christmas. Both types of Christmas carols are included in this list. Traditional Christmas carols are deeply religious, mainly focusing on the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus. ..." and from the Christmas carol page, "A Christmas carol (also called a noël) is a carol (song or hymn) whose lyrics are on the theme of Christmas, and which is traditionally sung on Christmas itself or during the surrounding holiday season. Christmas carols may be regarded as a subset of the broader category of Christmas music." There is deep meaning in the carols, where wise men still seek him. -- AstroU ( talk) 20:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
I have included five Irish traditional carols and one Catalan carol. When I originally added them, they were removed by ClueBot NG citing possible vandalism. I reported this false positive removal and added them again. Three of the Irish carols are in the English language and two are in the Irish language. The English language carols include:
The Irish language carols include:
The Catalan Carol includes:
I like the idea of this list, as the Christmas carol occupies a significant place in the development of western music, and I think a good start has been made. That said, the article needs a considerable amount of work.
Indeed? Yet in the "English" section I find Bring a Torch, Jeanette, Isabella, the original language of which was almost certainly French; Deck the Hall, originally in Welsh; Glory to God (Dutch); "Good King Wenceslas (probably Moravian or Slovakian); Huron Carol (oirginally in Huron); In Dulci Jubilo (Latin); O Christmas Tree (German); Silent Night (German); etc.
If the intent is really to organize the list by original language, all of these (and a few others) need to be moved from the "English" section to more appropriate places. There are similar problems in some of the other language charts.
Speaking from 16 years experience with maintaining a database of more than 2000 ethnic and popular Christmas songs, I would suggest that charting by language isn't, perhaps, the most useful way to organize this list. A better approach might be to list all songs alphabetically, by most popular title, then give the likely ethnic origin in the next column. (Ethnic origin tends to be easier to uncover than original language.)
I would suggest also that a column be added to provide alternate titles by which the tune is known in other countries, as many of these tunes are quite commonly known by two or three different names. This could be a single chart, or it could be separated into sections by letters of the alphabet.
A goodly number of entries in this list are not "carols" by the musical definition (e.g. Away in a Manger; Silent Night; O Tannenbaum; Angels From the Realms of Glory; In Dulci Jubilo, and many others).
These are, of course, very popular Christmas songs, and have been for a long time, so you may want to rethink calling this a list of carols, and instead call it a list of Christmas Songs.
Perhaps "List of Traditional Christmas Songs" -- I 'll leave it to others to quibble over the meaning of "traditional". :)
Many of these tunes have nonetheless become so associated in the modern mind with the Christmas season that it would probably be counterproductive to remove them. Including them with an appropriate comment -- as has been partly done -- is, I think, a good idea.
This does, however, raise the question of whether certain other songs should be included. For example, as of right now, perhaps the most iconic "Christmas" song of all time is Jingle Bells -- which says nothing at all about Christmas, and was originally composed for Thanksgiving. Yet so iconic has this song become, that a musician, composer, playwright, or film-maker who wants to suggest "Christmas" in the minds of his/her audience -- in any context, and at any time of year -- has only to quote the first six notes of Jingle Bells to produce the desired effect in most listeners.
One possible argument for excluding tunes like Jingle Bells would be to specify that the list only include religiously themed songs -- but in that case Deck the Hall and the Ukranian Bell Carol would also have to go, for the sake of consistency.
And that, really, is the bottom line: consistency.
Right now the list seriously lacks consistency. It would be a better, more useful article, were it more consistent.
Oh, and BTW, just or the record, Guadete -- which is a Christmas carol by practically any definition -- wasn't "popularized by Steeleye Span in 1973". Re - popularized, perhaps, but it was popularized about 400 years before most of the members of Steeleye Span were born. ;)
74.95.43.249 ( talk) 21:04, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
As a specific example of trouble, I note: "Away in a Manger" is attributed to Martin Luther in English, but no counterpart is attributed to him in Latin or German. Huh????? By way of contrast, "Angels We Have Heard on High" is cited as being a translation of a French carol, and "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" as a translation of "Adestes Fideles". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.230.119 ( talk) 08:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
There needs to be a clean up on many of the sections. For example
The second paragraph of the current article states:
I think the confusion around Christmas Carols and the legitimacy of some of the Carols mentioned above might be circumvented if it is added that there are Twelve Days of Christmas (also known as Twelvetide) and similar to Christmastide and from the 25th December to the 5th/6th of January they are celebrated, hence the reason why many Christmas Carols can be related to St Stephen's Day (26th December), St John's Day (27th December), Feast of Holy Innocents (28th December), St Sylvester's Day (31st December), and right up to the Epiphany. I can put this in if no one has a problem with it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.202.203 ( talk) 19:44, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to suggest an organization by ethnic or cultural origin/prevalence, rather than by language. There are several reasons for taking this approach:
If trouble is going to be taken to include a separate category for the Huron carol, then there really has to be a separate category for "American" as well. Many of the carols currently lumped under "English" are distinctly American in origin, and often in sentiment:
Away In A Manger; Children, Go Where I Send Thee; A Christmas Carol; Go Tell It On The Mountain; Jingle Bells; The Little Drummer Boy; It Came Upon A Midnight Clear; I Heard The Bells On Christmas Day; I Wonder As I Wander; O Little Town of Bethlehem; Rise Up Shepherd and Foller; We Three Kings
There are other issues with the article, but the chief one I see is that of organizational consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 ( talk) 22:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Click on this to see example of possible sortable table of Christmas Carols
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References
Why are the translations of the Romanian carols not given? Vorbee ( talk) 18:25, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
"Jingle Bells" is not a Christmas song/carol. It has no references to Christmas in it. It's like "Frosty The Snowman," "Winter Wonderland," and "Let It Snow." Sure it's standard to sing them around the holidays, but they don't have anything to do with Christmas. So why is "Jingle Bells" listed? I know this has been discussed before, but it seems as though no resolution was found. Removing "Jingle Bells" isn't controversial, but due diligence. Mr. C.C. Hey yo! I didn't do it! 03:37, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Not sure if I'm putting this in the right place, but wondering if someone could please add Australian Christmas carols to the list. There's a lot of them, a few well known ones can be found here https://www.australiantimes.co.uk/lifestyle/entertainment/10-greatest-ever-australian-christmas-songs/ but with terrible examples of them being sung) In particular
- "Carol of the Birds (Orana)" & "The Three Drovers" are very well known Aussie carols to all school children & performed at almost every end of year/Christmas primary school concert
- "The Wiggles" songs such as "go santa go" & "santa wear your shorts" are sung to 100,000 people live each year, along with millions of tv viewers at the Sydney Carols by Candlelight & just as much staples to Aussie kids as Jingle bells or Rudolf the red nose reindeer are
- "Santa Never Made It into Darwin" reached number 2 on the Australian music charts /info/en/?search=Bill_and_Boyd
- Rolf Harris's "6 white boomers" is also an old staple
Christmas in Australia is in the middle of summer, so replacements are needed for carols that other countries sing that relate to snow & cold, so we have a lot of locally written ones, the above being some of the most universal ones — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.211.105.8 ( talk) 15:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
I noticed errors in the list for English Carols, and I have corrected for these errors but they have continuously been reverted by User:Walter Görlitz to its inaccurate state. These errors included carols misplaced in the English section and songs that should not be on the list.
The first issue is related to a confusion of the Carol Star of the East where there are two Carols (one American and the other English) that are known by the same name. The English carol is better known as Brightest and Best and was written by Reginald Heber in 1811, however the version listed in the English section directs to the American carol, Star to the East, along with the information that cites German Alfred Hans Zoller as writing the song under the title Stern über Bethlehem (Star above Bethlehem), with American George Cooper translating the words in 1890, and music by Amanda Kennedy in 1883. I moved this carol to the American Section where it is recognised as belonging to and added the information related to the English carol known as Brightest and Best to the English section with a note accompanying both Carols to Not to confuse with each other. The two Carols are completely different Hear the American carol here and the English carol here
The second issue is in reference to songs that do not belong in the English section and/or are not related to Christmas. These songs included: Mary, Did You Know? which lists "words from American Mark Lowry, and music by Buddy Greene" I Pray on Christmas which lists "written and by Harry Connick Jr." Both songs are American written and produced and if it is to be included should be in the American section and not the English.
In reference to the first song Mary, Did You Know?, this song is not related to the birth of Jesus (Christmas) but rather his death and resurrection (Easter), despite its wiki article claiming to be about Christmas, the song does not make mention of the nativity but rather his dying to save us all ( listen to the song here). The Second song I Pray on Christmas by Harry Connick Jr. is a popular Christmas song ( Listen Here). if this song is valid in this list then so are songs like All I Want for Christmas Is You by Mariah Carey, and Fairytale of New York by The Pogues
This needs to be changed with the relevant songs associated with the American section moved there and those associated to the English section moved to that section. The removal of these popular songs needs to occur. They can appear the Popular Christmas Song list and User:Walter Görlitz needs to cease reverting valid changes. If he is adamant of these songs appearing on the list and in the sections he keeps reverting to, then he needs to provide citations to back up his argument as specified in WP:RS
So just to reiterate, you were wrong that "Mary Don't You Know" is a Christmas-themed song. I don't know if it is a carol or not, it is both Christmas and has appeared in at least two hymnals. The other song is clearly associated with Christmas, but I have no further knowledge of it. I suggest that you ask the individuals who added it (as you have been challenged, and at this point, WP:STATUSQUO would apply) or find a broader consensus. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
User:Walter Görlitz I see you are still trying to WP:GAME. I addressed your questions on "Mary, Did You Know?" multiple times, making it clear that while it was a Christian Song, it was not related to Christmas as there is no mention in the lyrics of the events of the nativity, (not to mention Christmastide and Twelvetide), however you disagree and have made spurious claims trying to link to the lyrics of the song.
The "Huron Carol" ("Jesous Ahatonhia") is listed under American carols. However, when you go to the page about the Huron Carol, it is cited as a Canadian carol, having been written in 1642 by French Jesuit missionary Jean de Brébeuf. The original language of the carol is Huron/Wendat with the carol later translated into English. (I wonder if there is a French-language version.)
I can make this change, but I wonder if I should add it as a Canadian carol or an Indigenous-language carol (or even specifically a North American Indigenous-language or Huron/Wendat-language carol). Or can it be added to both categories (which would mean creating two new categories)?
I'd appreciate guidance on this from a more experienced Wikipedia editor.
Thank you for your input. Bayonett ( talk) 15:37, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Can I discuss the inclusion of the secular American Christmas songs in the list of American carols? Currently, it includes Jingle Bells, Christmas Song (Chestnuts), Silver Bells and Rudolph. I am aware that the opening paragraph mentions the Christmas songs that focus on secular themes. However, in previous discussions on this page, the previous contributors made a distinction between the different kinds of songs for Christmas. If these few secular songs are included, would we need to go ahead an include Frosty, White Christmas, Let It Snow, I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day and other secular songs of that kind? It's a question of consistency. Yip1982 ( talk) 12:24, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
One such Reliable Source that demarcates the difference between a Christmas Carol from a Popular Christmas Song can be viewed here. [1]
References
This article should remain close to how a Christmas Carol is defined in the Christmas Carol wiki article. 37.18.134.184 ( talk) 16:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I was wondering if you could address an issue that pertains to the American carols with multiple tunes. In the American section, the entries for O Little Town and Away in a Manger have the different tunes mentioned under their entries. However, It Came Upon the Midnight Clear is another carol that has multiple tunes. I am aware that the Sears text and the Willis tune were created in America. However, congregations and choirs in the UK and the Commonwealth countries sing this text to a different tune, "Noel", adapted and arranged by Sullivan. Again this is a question of consistency. Why do we mention the UK "Forest Green" tune for O Little Town but not the UK tune for It Came Upon the Midnight Clear? Shouldn't we mention the preferred UK tunes for these texts in the section on UK-origin carols? Yip1982 ( talk) 12:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Title | Lyricist | Language | Music | Notes | Ref |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
"Leise rieselt der Schnee" | Eduard Ebel | German | Leise rieselt der Schnee (Daniel Gottlob Türk or Eduard Ebel) | Title translation: "Softly Falls Every Snow Flake", c. 1895 | [1] [2] |
References
I have added the following, for the intro which I think gives a definition on what is listed here and on the consensus reached some years ago. It is fully cited with Wikipedia:Reliable sources. If anyone has any better cited sources, then please feel free to contribute.
This is a list of Christmas carols that is organized by the carol’s country and/or language of origin. The
operational definition of what constitutes a Christmas carol and therefore inclusion on this list is as follows.
Christmas carols (or Noëls as they are sometimes referred to, especially for carols of French origin) [1], are a subset within the category of Christmas music. Other subsets of this music that are often erroneously conflated with Christmas carols consist of popular Christmas songs (also referred to as Christmas anthems), Christmas novelty songs, Winter/ solstice songs, New year carols (also referred to as Wassails), Annunciation carols, Advent carols and Epiphany carols. [2] The lyrics and melody determine the genre of a musical composition [3], and while all subsets of Christmas music may be traditionally sung at Christmas and/or during the Christmas holiday season, not all forms of Christmas music are carols. [4] The difference between a carol and a popular song is that a carol is a festive song, oratorio, or hymn that correspond with the Liturgical calendar, frequently performed by carollers or a choir, and that is often religious and/or spiritual but not necessarily connected with church worship, while a popular song can be festive but is generally secular in nature and is usually performed by a solo artist, duet, trio or a band. [5] [6] [7] [8] Another difference between Christmas carols and other subsets such as popular Christmas songs, Christmas novelty songs and winter/solstice songs is that, while carols are written for non-profit to spread a message of hope and unity between family and friends, other forms of music associated with Christmas tend to reflect the composer's personal experiences, often target children, and they are commercialized for entertainment purposes, with the goal to make a profit. [9] [10] Traditional Christmas carols celebrate the Christian events of the nativity and the Holy Family and as a result many carols were composed as lullabies for the infant Jesus, [11] [12] examples of which include Silent Night, The Rocking Carol, Tàladh Chrìosda (Christ's lullaby), Suantraí na Maighdine (The Virgin's Lullaby) and Ar Hyd y Nos (All Through the Night).
While other subsets of carols are religious in nature (such as Passiontide carols, and Easter carols), with some forming part of Christmas music (such as Annunciation carols, Advent carols, and Epiphany carols), none of them are Christmas carols. [6] However, some Annunciation carols and Advent carols are often miscategorised as Christmas carols. [12] Examples of Annunciation carols consist of Angelus ad virginem, Ave Maria, gratia plena, Gabriel's Message, and The Cherry-Tree Carol, [13] while examples of Advent carols include Adam lay ybounden, Lo! He comes with clouds descending, Lo, how a rose e'er blooming, O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, and The truth sent from above. [13] Similarly carols unrelated to the birth of Jesus such as Good King Wenceslas (a carol for St. Stephen's Day) and Epiphany carols are often unwittingly incorporated into Christmas carols due to the celebration of Twelve Days of Christmas which ranges from the 25 December to 5 January or Christmastide which ranges from the 24 December to 5 January. [6] As a result, many misconstrued Christmas carols can be related to St Stephen's Day (26 December), St John's Day (27 December), Feast of Holy Innocents (28 December), St Sylvester's Day (31 December), and the Epiphany (also known as little/old Christmas, and/or Three Kings Day). [12] Examples of Epiphany carols include As with Gladness Men of Old, We Three Kings, The Shepard's Farewell, and The Three Kings. [13]
Further confusion is engendered with the application of the term 'carol' in reference to New Year's carols, as carols are religious and related to the birth of Jesus, while New Year's carols are performed for a generally secular celebration, Twelfth Night (a festival not too dissimilar to Yule), that coincides with the eve of Epiphany and includes some songs that have no religious reference at all, such as Deck the Halls and The Twelve Days of Christmas. [4] [14] However, these subset of songs (also referred to as Wassails) were performed during Wassailing, where groups of people would go house-to-house singing and wishing good health to the occupier in exchange of an alcoholic beverage of the same name, Wassail. [4] [15] Another group of singers, that did have some authority from local governance to perform, known as "Waits", sang as part of " Watchnight" which is New Year's Eve. [16] Examples of other New Year's carols often conflated as Christmas carols consist of A New Year Carol, Here We Come A-wassailing, Gloucestershire Wassail, We Wish You a Merry Christmas, and What Cheer?. [13] Other songs that are not grouped with New Year's carols nor make any specific reference to the nativity or the Holy Family, but are falsely considered to be Christmas carols include Ding Dong Merrily on High (about bells and angels), and O Christmas Tree (which is a mistranslation from its German original, O Tannenbaum, meaning Fir tree). [14]
In recent years, the term 'carol' has become even more distorted and complicated to identify, due in part to the global marketing success by the United States of portraying Christmas within conditions many northern parts of the U.S. may encounter, such as a cold wintery climate with snow, frost, and/or ice. [2] [17] While Christmas in the Northern Hemisphere occurs in Winter, Christmas in the Southern Hemisphere takes places in the Summer. [18] Winter/solstice songs misconstrued as Christmas carols usually reflect the weather conditions and experiences of specific regions within the Northern Hemisphere, while also making no reference to Christmas. [2] [17] Examples of Winter/solstice songs include Jingle Bells (written for Thanksgiving), Frosty the Snowman, Suzy Snowflake, and Once Upon a Wintertime. [2] Additionally, the successful marketing by U.S. companies, combining music with created characters that targeted children for financial reward has contributed to the erroneous conflation of novelty Christmas songs with Christmas Carols. [2] [17] Examples of novelty Christmas songs include Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town, Here Comes Santa Claus, Jolly Old St. Nicholas and You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch. [2]
This list will focus upon Christmas Carols in its traditional definition as specified and cited above. This list is not exhaustive.
References
37.18.134.184 ( talk) 16:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
As my wife leads preparations for our annual Christmas music program, I just want to thank everyone for all of the great musical options. As Stake Music Chair, she will communicate with the ten Ward Music Chairmen some of the best selections, such as "God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen." We always find the JOY of the season. AstroU ( talk) 14:02, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I have been unavailable until today. There's really a simpler solution than arguing about what does and does not constitute a carol: we simply move this article to a different title. While I agree with MichaelMaggs' suggestions, it's also very simple to change the location of this article to something "list of Christmas carols and songs". Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:55, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
The above advent chant is neither a carol nor strictly Christmas. Should it really be on this list and should this list be linked from it? Martin of Sheffield ( talk) 12:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
CAROL. The history of this word presents a remarkable parallel to that of the kindred term Ballad. Both originally implied dancing : both are now used simply to denote a kind of song. In old French, Carole signified a peculiar kind of dance in a ring. This dance gave its name to the song by which it was accompanied : and so the word passed, in one or both of these senses, into most of the languages of Western Europe.
In the English of Chaucer carolling is some- times dancing and sometimes singing. In modern usage a carol may be defined as a kind of popular song appropriated to some special season of the ecclesiastical or natural year. There are, or were, Welsh summer carols, and winter carols ; there are also Easter carols ; but the only species which remains in general use, and requires a more detailed examination, is the Christmas carol.
Christmas carols then are songs or ballads to be used during the Christmas season, in reference to the festival, under one or other of its aspects.
OK. Here's why I did what I did. All the other lists are defined by language, except English. Since there is huge crossover in music between the USA and the UK, it made sense to merge them and keep the format consistent. Serendi pod ous 18:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
The heading "Scottish" really ought too be "Gaelic". There are three languages natively spoken in Scotland: Gaelic, Scots and Scottish English. Do others agree? Martin of Sheffield ( talk) 20:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)