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There has today been a lot of new articles created that have been linked from this page. They have all been deleted because they were either copyvios, or did not express notability. Just a friendly note, before anyone else wastes their time creating articles only for them to be deleted 20 minutes later. The JPS talk to me 20:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC) Dream Theater isn't christian indeed... However, John Petrucci, the guitar player from Dream Theater is Christian, but that doesn't make the band christian...
I believe many of these bands need citations. I have been a follower of the CM scene since I was 7 years old (20 years later...) and haven't heard of many of these bands. This list should be reserved to bands that are significant in some manner, not just an everyday garage band. --One Redeemer 19:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Iamvery
I've added quiet a few black metal bands... most of them you probably have never heard of... before you delete them, go look them up, I spent hours researching them, they're all safe =] Roozbenjrox 13:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, quite a few of the bands I added are from Europe, Mexico, etc. So the lyrics are in Spanish/Ukraine etc. not English, does anyone think we should have non-English bands? Roozbenjrox 13:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed them, as none of them had articles. --
Inhumer
06:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
You can't have a black metal band with pro-Christian lyrics anymore than you can have a realist painting with unicorns in it. It's physically impossible. Ours18 17:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Says who Ours18? you? Are you the god of metal and only what you say can be metal is metal? All hail Ours18 "THE METAL GOD" - ETAC
Be aware: You provided a link to a page that calls "Christian Black Metal" "UNBLACK Metal" If this is the case, then there is no such thing as "Christian Black Metal" only its variant, "Unblack Metal." It may sound cheesy, but you can't have it both ways. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Unblack metal is another name for christian black metal. – Jerry teps 05:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I added some (band) notations to the groups whose links were to the wrong pages. I do not know whether any of these bands would have pages, maybe someone should check this out. While said person is checking it out, please to check also if they are really Christian bands. While I was at it, I removed the link to System of a Down, but not before making sure they weren't really a Christian band. A quick check of the lyrical content reassures me of this. Jlricherson 04:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
One or two songs don't make a band christian -- Inhumer 02:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
No, They're not. -- Inhumer 00:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
As I have already told you, One or two songs with references to something of christian nature don't make a band christian. -- Inhumer 18:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if wikipedia describes them as metal it's because wikipedia doesn't properly classify bands for almost any genre. They aren't listed on the Encyclopaedia Metallum, they have been described as hard rock with slight metallic influences in numerous magazines, and I've not met a single metal fan who considers them metal. So there you have it. Not metal. And even if you go by the false definition provided by Uncle Wiki, they still aren't Christian by a long shot. "References the death of Christ?" Thousands of blatantly anti-Christian metal bands have done that. Ours18 04:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
in an interview, Daron Malakian is quoted to have said: "The song is about how when people die, they will be regarded differently depending on the way they pass. Like, if I were to die from a drug overdose, everyone would say I deserved it because I abused drugs, hence the line 'Angels deserve to die'. -From the wikipedia page for
Chop Suey! --
Inhumer
00:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I just read the lyrics to Question! and Soldier Side. Soldier Sidemay contain the word "God", but is obviously about war. Question! seems to about dreaming. -- Inhumer 00:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I know a good test: read the lyrics to "F*** the System." Wow, they have to be NOT Christian. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree, they are not Christian nor metal. I think they are more muslim then anything. Iamvery 20:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they're Muslim either. -- Inhumer 20:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
This argument is settled already. -- Trusader 23:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
A debate I've gotten into many times. Is it totally accurate to define a type of music as Christian? And if so, why aren't we defining other bands based on their religious beliefs? Why isn't their an "atheist metal" section at the local record shop? In some ways, I think defining a music with a Christian message as "Christian" hinders sales for bands that are just as capable if not better than their counterparts.
Technically, when it all comes down to it, music is music. It can be used in many ways, some use it to glorify God, some to glorify evil. Iamvery 20:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
When I call a band a Christian band I'm describes the people in the band not the style music. Thats why Christian Metal is still genrelized in the same subgenres as secular metal. The Christian tag is just to let people know what they are about and for fans of metal who are Christians to find bands that share snd express similar beliefs as they do. - E Tac
Would it be possible to list or organize these bands also within their subgenres to make this a more informative list or not? - E Tac
Not Really, genrelizing it only as Christian and nothing else does nothing to describe the sound of the music itself, only the people playing it and the lyrics to it. So categorizing the bands in this list also by the style of metal they play seems like a reasonable idea to me. If bands were only genrelized by their lyrical content imagine what it would be like walking into a record store. -- E tac 11:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I see your point now. I would agree. -- Trusader 00:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the bands on this page cannot be classified as 'metal' such as Underoath, P.O.D. and especially mewithoutyou
Has anyone heard of "Beneath the Sky" and should they be in the list? All of their lyrics are positive, with "The Reason" actually about Jesus and salvation. The only problem is that on at least two songs, they use "curse words" (the f-word (but not in a vulgar way) and 'goddamned' but even Maylene and the Sons of Disaster use that, *update: MATSOD actually say "damn it all to hell"* in a non-profane way). My question is: should bands that use profanity be completely barred from the list, or can there be a Christian band with mild profanities in their lyrics? Could there be such a liberal sect of Christianity that is okay with this?
Jlricherson
17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
No christian band ever uses curse words. P.O.D. does not curse but some words they use sound like curse words. Beneath the Sky may have some christian background but not be a christian band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.21.223.97 ( talk) 17:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
A lot of editing has been done here and some genres keep getting changed and artists being added. It's really hard and tiresome having to look over edits of mostly anons. For example xdeathstarx (which I may add is not on the metal-archives as being death metal, let alone not even being on it), I wonder what their real genre is but they are definitely not a pure death metal act ("Christian death metal" maybe to blame?). Also, some metalcore bands are rather more hardcore and should be on the metalcore and hardcore list instead. I'm obviously not for the hardcore stuff and "Christian metal" much but using extreme metal when a band is stated as a hardcore band? Sheesh... some people need to learn their genres or have this page protected from mass editing and have some downtime. -- CircafuciX 21:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
To notify everyone this is what I did:
I'm also not sure of some bands having their light of day here and some things that seem to go on here very, very often. Most core genres just don't give their way into real heavy metal and have removed the other more subtle "cores".
That will sum up my edits for now. -- CircafuciX ( talk) 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I just added the above mentioned feature to the list. You can see its wide spread usage here. I wrote about it on the AfD, and since the article made it, I thought I'd use it here. Weltanschaunng 01:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
For this list though, I think the genre(s) and the christian metal album(s) is enough (for now). Band members; well, it will be a bit too much. Weltanschaunng 15:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok well this is the code:
<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="padding:0;border-style:none;"> <div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="border-style:none;padding:0;"> <div class="NavHead" style="background:#EDF1F1;text-align:left;text-style:normal"> * {{flagicon|countryname}} <font size =2>
Enter Band's link here</font></div> <div class="NavContent" style="text-align:left;">
Genre:
Enter Genres here
Albums:
Enter the albums here </div></div></div>
Weltanschaunng 15:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm liking this expandable list feature it really helps clean the page and eases the eyes. Nice implementation! But if there are problems with several editors (being ips) of placing the things in the incorrect places then this page should get protected, because theres always a storm of editing here and as I said before we could use a break of countless editing (by mostly anon ips and new users). This will allow us to test the new features without all these interruptions. Also, the page may well be deleted in a future AfD. − ₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 03:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The criteria for inclusion in this list needs to be overhauled. There is nothing on how a band is (or could be) "determined to be Christian" and is "considered to be heavy metal". I don't listen to this style of music so perhaps those who do could come up with something more subjective. Kevin ( talk) 03:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The expandable list feature raises some questions. If we hide the genres, people would have to click every band look what style they play, which could be rather annoying maybe. Should we leave the most dominating genre definition for each band, and include genres by album for the feature (See example 3)?
Example 1:
Genre: Unblack metal, Death/Doom, Dark metal
Albums:
This is based on Weltanschaunng's suggestion. It looks good. However, if the band's style simply has changed on every album. Should we do like this:
Example 2:
Albums:
Or Should we do like this:
Example 3:
Albums:
Example 4:
Genres:
Albums:
Anyway, it is a great idea to use the feature, we just need to decide how to use it. I was thinking about going for the example 4. --
Azure Shrieker (
talk)
21:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
What are the bolded names for? 69.238.199.77 ( talk) 04:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Ahhh.... I mean they're only brutal death. What am I thinking!? FireCrystal ( talk) 03:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
They were never considered a metal band and they never were. They were a rock band, and occasionally had hard rock tracks, but definitely not metal. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
On their myspace page, they have an interview with 105.7 radio. In the interview they stated that they never said that they labled themselves as christian metal and "laugh it off" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.231.87.47 ( talk) 02:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I have started a review of the listed bands. I will be removing any listings if
I'm not planning on touching links to bands that may not be metal enough. Should be finished over the next few days. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 00:05, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
It's not an opinion. How could you possobly think skillet is metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 ( talk) 00:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Spoken should be here since they are post Hardcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 16:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Should The Dizmas be here? I think they should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 00:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I was already familiar with the article but I went through my iTunes library and re-discovered H.I.M.'s song "The Face Of God"... I was just wondering if they have any more references to religion in any ways, and if they might be considered as Christian metal... Just wonderin'! ^^ -- Zouavman Le Zouave ( Talk to me! • See my edits!) 21:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I don't think they are a Christian band. -- E tac 22:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Or Metal for that matter.-- Inhumer 06:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Its like the band lamb of God. Lambs or sheep of God in the bible are Christians and the Shepard is Jesus. The band Lamb of God is not christian at all they are a satanic band with a christian reference from the bible. Just like the song number of the beast from Iron Maiden the first i think 20 or 30 seconds comes from the book of Revelations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.45.248 ( talk) 21:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
They had an article but someone delleted it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 01:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I think understand why they were removed but I just want to be sure. I suspect that most were removed because they didn't fit a narrow definition of what Christian metal is. I think some were removed because they were controversial. The way I have been maintaining the list is 1) to determine if the band is or is not considered part of the Christian music scene, 2) if their music touches on metal, and 3) if they don't belong on the other lists more than here. if I stepped on 3family6's toes, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out why you removed a lot of bands that I think belong here. I hope I'm not showing page ownership. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Hope that helps clarify, --3family6 22:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 ( talk • contribs)
I added them and started an article for them. If someone could help me work on it abit Id appreciate it. DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Think you could do it for me? I'm really no good at sourcing... DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:56, 7 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
ok so I was looking through the List of Christian rock bands and Ive came across a large number of bands that I think should be here as well. DCcomicslover ( talk) 01:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Okay I went through the list and picked a number of bands to add. None will be sourced so if someone could please... DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:37, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover All right I added a bunch of bands. If they don't line up with metal than feel free to delete them but at least keep the post-Hardcore ones. If they mentioned metal or posthardcore in their article I added them. A few Hard rocks may have worked their way in as well as well so feel free to check my work. DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Im gonna do another run through of the christian rock list but I always thought that Post harcore was was a branch of metal. It's a border between rock and metal. Or so i thought. Alot of PH bands are heavier than some metal bands. DCcomicslover ( talk) 23:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Sorry about the removal of King James, that was accidental. As to Kekal, I should probably have discussed it on here. My edit was supposed to have an explanation, but I accidentally sent the edit through before I could finish (which is probably why I did not catch that King James was included). My rational for Kekal is that there is debate as to whether they are Christian, and the only qualification that they have for Christian metal is that the members have expressed Christian beliefs, although their earliest material has a Christian message. They probably meet the criteria of this list, I don't really know why I took them off the list (probably too much time on Wikipedia).-- 3family6 ( talk) 16:36, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Why are there so many Flagicons all of the sudden? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 17:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Every band used to only have one flagicon. Now we have a band with 3! DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Update: I have been combing MOS:FLAG, and I cannot find anything that frowns upon use of flagicons in lists. The only thing I found regarding their use in lists is that they can be removed if it is determined that they cause problem with clarity. I have noticed that there is a stipulation that flagicons be used along with the name of a nation, not as a replacement.-- 3family6 ( talk) 14:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
As can be seen on the page history for the article, I am attempting source all of the bands listed here. Some unsourced bands may be removed.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Finished sourcing. I need to go back through and see if any need minor corrections. Next phase is bringing back the subgenres. I plan to use the expandable list feature for them unless there is not enough information.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
This is AWESOME man! Keep up the good work!! DCcomicslover ( talk) 02:21, 22 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I am tweaking the expandable list feature. It will not work for every single band as the page will probably crash. I don't know what I was thinking, but I will fix everything to work better.-- 3family6 ( talk) 13:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Who deleted all the genres to begin with? DCcomicslover ( talk) 14:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I propose that we leave the flagicons. But what do you mean by splitting the page? By genres? DCcomicslover ( talk) 15:58, 23 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
The article is taking a long time to load, at least it is for me. I was thinking that maybe we should move the refs to a sub page like List of Christian metal bands/references and just leave the band names on the article itself. Comments? -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Source indicates that they're CCM/AOR. Quote is "a rock band [with] the ability to wear a variety of stylistic hats", one of which is "raunchy heavy metalers" and Man with a Mission definitely has some hard-rocking tracks, but not a single track is "raunchy" or even approaching what was taken as heavy metal in 1992. If the album had come out in 1972, it could have been considered metal. It goes on to mention "doowop revivalists", because they have a Billy Joel-inspired track on the album as well. And even if we accept it as a source for half, and I'm being generous her, of the tracks in the one album, you have five other albums' worth of material to account for. Their rockiest song was actually the title track of the previous album Long Way from Paradise. They were a west-coast AOR band not metal and Man with a Mission had some electric blues songs (direct musical rips from traditional blues songs with "Christianized" lyrics).
So here's a situation where the source indicates metal, but their overall body of work is not metal. I don't think that they should be listed, but we have a source that seems to support addition. I can confirm with the Encyclopedia of CCM tonight, but I can't imagine a reason to keep them in the list. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
I have never heard of the band before, so I cannot vouch from personal experience. But in the source it says that they have played heavy metal, which is a form of rock, and whether the album is "raunchy" or not is not up to us as editors. Tony Cummings is a professional writer and has followed the CCM scene for years. Even so, a band does not have to be included even if a reliable source can be provided, but we need a really good reason not to include them, beyond metal not being their predominant style (which, judging from sources, varied anyway). I will not put them back up for now, but a consensus needs to be developed or else they go back.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Might make the list difficult to read, especially on narrow monitors or hand-held devices. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 15:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I say we keep Underoaths image and instead move it up top and just have that one. DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover:
Hi, I have watched this page for a while, and I personally feel that the page description needs to be fixed. Right now, the description reads: "This list features bands who have been determined to be Christian and play heavy metal music or one of its subgenres. This list omits some bands of disputed status as a "Christian band.""
Now this is the problem: What does the second sentence mean by "some bands of disputed status"? Who determines which bands are the "some" that are omitted? There are several bands on here that according to the description should not be here. Kekal and Trouble are two that I can think of offhand, and I know that there are others. Also, a helpful addition to the description would be an admonition that only bands with their own Wikipedia article should be included, as I constantly see bands listed on here that do not have an article.
So, my suggestion is that either
Either way, the description needs to be cleaned up so it is not as nebulous. --3family6 14:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 ( talk • contribs)
I am developing a list that splits the article by genre. See here to check and see if I should expand, fix, or create more categories. Thank you, -- 3family6 ( talk) 01:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
The list is pretty much finished, it will probably take a few weeks to implement it, I will list bands on my talk and when finished use the lists to create the separate pages.-- 3family6 ( talk) 03:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
I think its that the list is getting a bit long. DCcomicslover ( talk) 03:47, 30 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Here is my theory. I'll run it by you 2 first because I think we 3 oare the only ones on this page often enough. What if we only added the main subgenre of each band? I'm pretty good at subgenres and could do it over time. DCcomicslover ( talk) 17:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Good point. Any other ideas? DCcomicslover ( talk) 19:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
So far, a consensus doesn't seem to have developed. Should I just split the page alphabetically and ignore the genre debate for now?-- 3family6 ( talk) 22:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I just found the List of thrash metal bands, and while it could use sourcing, I think the general layout idea might work well for this list. It will probably help with listing genres, and will take care of the flag infraction that Blackmetalbaz mentioned (though I still can't find what he is talking about).-- 3family6 ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
The new editor on the punk list might have an interesting point. If we move the hardcore bands to the punk list that would free-up room on this list. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Define hardcore bands. that could mean anything. Metalcore? or what? DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
It Was. I don't even think we have any of those on this list that aren't metal sourced. DCcomicslover ( talk) 17:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
This is an idea I have been brooding over for a while. With this list, and also pretty with the List of Christian punk bands, a great deal of the bands are metalcore. To help with size issues and maybe also to avoid annoying genre disputes, perhaps a separate List of Christian metalcore bands could be created?-- 3family6 ( talk) 03:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
A lot of bands on here (Dizmas, Underoath, Dead Poetic, etc.) have absolutely nothing to do with metal, and would only be labeled as such by someone who thinks that all hard music is metal. I'm currently busy editing the Christian punk list, so I thought I would throw it out there in case anyone else has the time. -- Invisiboy42293 ( talk) 23:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I know, I know. No need to say I told you so. DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)Dcomicslover
I might have found an interview with them that can count as a source for them being included. It's on lambgoat. com DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
http://www.lambgoat.com/features/interviews/spitfire.aspx I think this is it. 00:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover — Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs)
I'll work on it but I'm having a hard time finding band interviews. I HATE reclusive bands DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomiclover Hmmm.... Would their Solid State Records page work? DCcomicslover ( talk) 23:18, 13 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
No it's cool. I guess I'll keep looking. If I can come up with one surely I can come up with 2.... What about their myspace profile? Tey're listed as gospel there. DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:20, 14 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
http://www.smother.net/interviews/spitfire.php try this.... DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover And I also found this as well. Not as deep as I dug for the last one. http://www.technicianonline.com/features/a-christian-band-with-a-metalcore-1.1111379 DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
And The first one? DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Probably should wait for Walter though. He's the only one that really spends any time here. DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Currently, To Speak of Wolves should not be on the list as there are no sources that state them as metal. Now, I have a heard a few of their songs, and I am positive they are metalcore, but my opinion does not count. The main problem is that they are just too small a group, perhaps when they get more exposure we will get a source.-- 3family6 ( talk) 20:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Callisto has been tagged for a bit, I'm just creating a section where they can be discussed. Issue in question: Allmusic simply mentions "religious imagery," it doesn't claim them to be Christian. I have yet to find a source for the band being Christian.-- 3family6 ( talk) 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2721 try this. Not sure how reliable it is But it was short notice research DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I think it is about time we established a consensus on bands that are commonly added and removed from the page. To establish a consensus of a band, add the band below as a subheading of the Bands section, then cast your vote with a bold Include or Exclude, followed by your reasoning and your signature. If you wish to change your vote later on perhaps because people Have presented a good case for including the band, Strike out your previous vote Like this, and put a new vote, reason and signature beneath your old vote.
It should be known that they are not a Christian band. There have had countless interviews with the Band and always comes up "are you guys Christian?" Always answer is no. They have a lot of "inspirational" Lyrics but let's face it one of the members is gay and that would suggest not Christian. It's a great band and I could see why they may be considered Christian with the first three albums you can hear biblical themes if you know the Bible. I thin (not sure of this) one of the members is a Believer or is an apostate. 74.70.28.219 ( talk) 21:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Doug Pinnick has announced he is a homosexual, and he and another of the band's three members have renounced Christianity. However, they were considered a Christian band before that time, so I think they should be included, though an attempt at a consensus for their removal could be started if someone objected.-- 3family6 ( talk) 00:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I feel this is necessary to give us just cause for removing bands from the list, and avoid edit wars. if anyone has any objections to me putting this up, feel free. Axcess ( talk) 16:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
There has today been a lot of new articles created that have been linked from this page. They have all been deleted because they were either copyvios, or did not express notability. Just a friendly note, before anyone else wastes their time creating articles only for them to be deleted 20 minutes later. The JPS talk to me 20:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC) Dream Theater isn't christian indeed... However, John Petrucci, the guitar player from Dream Theater is Christian, but that doesn't make the band christian...
I believe many of these bands need citations. I have been a follower of the CM scene since I was 7 years old (20 years later...) and haven't heard of many of these bands. This list should be reserved to bands that are significant in some manner, not just an everyday garage band. --One Redeemer 19:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Iamvery
I've added quiet a few black metal bands... most of them you probably have never heard of... before you delete them, go look them up, I spent hours researching them, they're all safe =] Roozbenjrox 13:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, quite a few of the bands I added are from Europe, Mexico, etc. So the lyrics are in Spanish/Ukraine etc. not English, does anyone think we should have non-English bands? Roozbenjrox 13:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed them, as none of them had articles. --
Inhumer
06:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
You can't have a black metal band with pro-Christian lyrics anymore than you can have a realist painting with unicorns in it. It's physically impossible. Ours18 17:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Says who Ours18? you? Are you the god of metal and only what you say can be metal is metal? All hail Ours18 "THE METAL GOD" - ETAC
Be aware: You provided a link to a page that calls "Christian Black Metal" "UNBLACK Metal" If this is the case, then there is no such thing as "Christian Black Metal" only its variant, "Unblack Metal." It may sound cheesy, but you can't have it both ways. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Unblack metal is another name for christian black metal. – Jerry teps 05:39, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I added some (band) notations to the groups whose links were to the wrong pages. I do not know whether any of these bands would have pages, maybe someone should check this out. While said person is checking it out, please to check also if they are really Christian bands. While I was at it, I removed the link to System of a Down, but not before making sure they weren't really a Christian band. A quick check of the lyrical content reassures me of this. Jlricherson 04:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
One or two songs don't make a band christian -- Inhumer 02:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
No, They're not. -- Inhumer 00:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
As I have already told you, One or two songs with references to something of christian nature don't make a band christian. -- Inhumer 18:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if wikipedia describes them as metal it's because wikipedia doesn't properly classify bands for almost any genre. They aren't listed on the Encyclopaedia Metallum, they have been described as hard rock with slight metallic influences in numerous magazines, and I've not met a single metal fan who considers them metal. So there you have it. Not metal. And even if you go by the false definition provided by Uncle Wiki, they still aren't Christian by a long shot. "References the death of Christ?" Thousands of blatantly anti-Christian metal bands have done that. Ours18 04:46, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
in an interview, Daron Malakian is quoted to have said: "The song is about how when people die, they will be regarded differently depending on the way they pass. Like, if I were to die from a drug overdose, everyone would say I deserved it because I abused drugs, hence the line 'Angels deserve to die'. -From the wikipedia page for
Chop Suey! --
Inhumer
00:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I just read the lyrics to Question! and Soldier Side. Soldier Sidemay contain the word "God", but is obviously about war. Question! seems to about dreaming. -- Inhumer 00:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I know a good test: read the lyrics to "F*** the System." Wow, they have to be NOT Christian. Jlricherson 17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree, they are not Christian nor metal. I think they are more muslim then anything. Iamvery 20:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they're Muslim either. -- Inhumer 20:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
This argument is settled already. -- Trusader 23:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
A debate I've gotten into many times. Is it totally accurate to define a type of music as Christian? And if so, why aren't we defining other bands based on their religious beliefs? Why isn't their an "atheist metal" section at the local record shop? In some ways, I think defining a music with a Christian message as "Christian" hinders sales for bands that are just as capable if not better than their counterparts.
Technically, when it all comes down to it, music is music. It can be used in many ways, some use it to glorify God, some to glorify evil. Iamvery 20:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
When I call a band a Christian band I'm describes the people in the band not the style music. Thats why Christian Metal is still genrelized in the same subgenres as secular metal. The Christian tag is just to let people know what they are about and for fans of metal who are Christians to find bands that share snd express similar beliefs as they do. - E Tac
Would it be possible to list or organize these bands also within their subgenres to make this a more informative list or not? - E Tac
Not Really, genrelizing it only as Christian and nothing else does nothing to describe the sound of the music itself, only the people playing it and the lyrics to it. So categorizing the bands in this list also by the style of metal they play seems like a reasonable idea to me. If bands were only genrelized by their lyrical content imagine what it would be like walking into a record store. -- E tac 11:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I see your point now. I would agree. -- Trusader 00:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
A lot of the bands on this page cannot be classified as 'metal' such as Underoath, P.O.D. and especially mewithoutyou
Has anyone heard of "Beneath the Sky" and should they be in the list? All of their lyrics are positive, with "The Reason" actually about Jesus and salvation. The only problem is that on at least two songs, they use "curse words" (the f-word (but not in a vulgar way) and 'goddamned' but even Maylene and the Sons of Disaster use that, *update: MATSOD actually say "damn it all to hell"* in a non-profane way). My question is: should bands that use profanity be completely barred from the list, or can there be a Christian band with mild profanities in their lyrics? Could there be such a liberal sect of Christianity that is okay with this?
Jlricherson
17:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
No christian band ever uses curse words. P.O.D. does not curse but some words they use sound like curse words. Beneath the Sky may have some christian background but not be a christian band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.21.223.97 ( talk) 17:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
A lot of editing has been done here and some genres keep getting changed and artists being added. It's really hard and tiresome having to look over edits of mostly anons. For example xdeathstarx (which I may add is not on the metal-archives as being death metal, let alone not even being on it), I wonder what their real genre is but they are definitely not a pure death metal act ("Christian death metal" maybe to blame?). Also, some metalcore bands are rather more hardcore and should be on the metalcore and hardcore list instead. I'm obviously not for the hardcore stuff and "Christian metal" much but using extreme metal when a band is stated as a hardcore band? Sheesh... some people need to learn their genres or have this page protected from mass editing and have some downtime. -- CircafuciX 21:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
To notify everyone this is what I did:
I'm also not sure of some bands having their light of day here and some things that seem to go on here very, very often. Most core genres just don't give their way into real heavy metal and have removed the other more subtle "cores".
That will sum up my edits for now. -- CircafuciX ( talk) 03:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I just added the above mentioned feature to the list. You can see its wide spread usage here. I wrote about it on the AfD, and since the article made it, I thought I'd use it here. Weltanschaunng 01:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
For this list though, I think the genre(s) and the christian metal album(s) is enough (for now). Band members; well, it will be a bit too much. Weltanschaunng 15:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Ok well this is the code:
<div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="padding:0;border-style:none;"> <div class="NavFrame collapsed" style="border-style:none;padding:0;"> <div class="NavHead" style="background:#EDF1F1;text-align:left;text-style:normal"> * {{flagicon|countryname}} <font size =2>
Enter Band's link here</font></div> <div class="NavContent" style="text-align:left;">
Genre:
Enter Genres here
Albums:
Enter the albums here </div></div></div>
Weltanschaunng 15:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm liking this expandable list feature it really helps clean the page and eases the eyes. Nice implementation! But if there are problems with several editors (being ips) of placing the things in the incorrect places then this page should get protected, because theres always a storm of editing here and as I said before we could use a break of countless editing (by mostly anon ips and new users). This will allow us to test the new features without all these interruptions. Also, the page may well be deleted in a future AfD. − ₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 03:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The criteria for inclusion in this list needs to be overhauled. There is nothing on how a band is (or could be) "determined to be Christian" and is "considered to be heavy metal". I don't listen to this style of music so perhaps those who do could come up with something more subjective. Kevin ( talk) 03:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
The expandable list feature raises some questions. If we hide the genres, people would have to click every band look what style they play, which could be rather annoying maybe. Should we leave the most dominating genre definition for each band, and include genres by album for the feature (See example 3)?
Example 1:
Genre: Unblack metal, Death/Doom, Dark metal
Albums:
This is based on Weltanschaunng's suggestion. It looks good. However, if the band's style simply has changed on every album. Should we do like this:
Example 2:
Albums:
Or Should we do like this:
Example 3:
Albums:
Example 4:
Genres:
Albums:
Anyway, it is a great idea to use the feature, we just need to decide how to use it. I was thinking about going for the example 4. --
Azure Shrieker (
talk)
21:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
What are the bolded names for? 69.238.199.77 ( talk) 04:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Ahhh.... I mean they're only brutal death. What am I thinking!? FireCrystal ( talk) 03:12, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
They were never considered a metal band and they never were. They were a rock band, and occasionally had hard rock tracks, but definitely not metal. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:15, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
On their myspace page, they have an interview with 105.7 radio. In the interview they stated that they never said that they labled themselves as christian metal and "laugh it off" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.231.87.47 ( talk) 02:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I have started a review of the listed bands. I will be removing any listings if
I'm not planning on touching links to bands that may not be metal enough. Should be finished over the next few days. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 00:05, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
It's not an opinion. How could you possobly think skillet is metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.115.16 ( talk) 00:21, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Spoken should be here since they are post Hardcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 16:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Should The Dizmas be here? I think they should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 00:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I was already familiar with the article but I went through my iTunes library and re-discovered H.I.M.'s song "The Face Of God"... I was just wondering if they have any more references to religion in any ways, and if they might be considered as Christian metal... Just wonderin'! ^^ -- Zouavman Le Zouave ( Talk to me! • See my edits!) 21:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I don't think they are a Christian band. -- E tac 22:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Or Metal for that matter.-- Inhumer 06:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Its like the band lamb of God. Lambs or sheep of God in the bible are Christians and the Shepard is Jesus. The band Lamb of God is not christian at all they are a satanic band with a christian reference from the bible. Just like the song number of the beast from Iron Maiden the first i think 20 or 30 seconds comes from the book of Revelations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.45.248 ( talk) 21:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
They had an article but someone delleted it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 01:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I think understand why they were removed but I just want to be sure. I suspect that most were removed because they didn't fit a narrow definition of what Christian metal is. I think some were removed because they were controversial. The way I have been maintaining the list is 1) to determine if the band is or is not considered part of the Christian music scene, 2) if their music touches on metal, and 3) if they don't belong on the other lists more than here. if I stepped on 3family6's toes, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to figure out why you removed a lot of bands that I think belong here. I hope I'm not showing page ownership. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:48, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
Hope that helps clarify, --3family6 22:05, 30 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 ( talk • contribs)
I added them and started an article for them. If someone could help me work on it abit Id appreciate it. DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Think you could do it for me? I'm really no good at sourcing... DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:56, 7 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
ok so I was looking through the List of Christian rock bands and Ive came across a large number of bands that I think should be here as well. DCcomicslover ( talk) 01:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Okay I went through the list and picked a number of bands to add. None will be sourced so if someone could please... DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:37, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover All right I added a bunch of bands. If they don't line up with metal than feel free to delete them but at least keep the post-Hardcore ones. If they mentioned metal or posthardcore in their article I added them. A few Hard rocks may have worked their way in as well as well so feel free to check my work. DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:53, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Im gonna do another run through of the christian rock list but I always thought that Post harcore was was a branch of metal. It's a border between rock and metal. Or so i thought. Alot of PH bands are heavier than some metal bands. DCcomicslover ( talk) 23:26, 10 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Sorry about the removal of King James, that was accidental. As to Kekal, I should probably have discussed it on here. My edit was supposed to have an explanation, but I accidentally sent the edit through before I could finish (which is probably why I did not catch that King James was included). My rational for Kekal is that there is debate as to whether they are Christian, and the only qualification that they have for Christian metal is that the members have expressed Christian beliefs, although their earliest material has a Christian message. They probably meet the criteria of this list, I don't really know why I took them off the list (probably too much time on Wikipedia).-- 3family6 ( talk) 16:36, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Why are there so many Flagicons all of the sudden? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs) 17:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Every band used to only have one flagicon. Now we have a band with 3! DCcomicslover ( talk) 18:01, 6 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Update: I have been combing MOS:FLAG, and I cannot find anything that frowns upon use of flagicons in lists. The only thing I found regarding their use in lists is that they can be removed if it is determined that they cause problem with clarity. I have noticed that there is a stipulation that flagicons be used along with the name of a nation, not as a replacement.-- 3family6 ( talk) 14:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
As can be seen on the page history for the article, I am attempting source all of the bands listed here. Some unsourced bands may be removed.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Finished sourcing. I need to go back through and see if any need minor corrections. Next phase is bringing back the subgenres. I plan to use the expandable list feature for them unless there is not enough information.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
This is AWESOME man! Keep up the good work!! DCcomicslover ( talk) 02:21, 22 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I am tweaking the expandable list feature. It will not work for every single band as the page will probably crash. I don't know what I was thinking, but I will fix everything to work better.-- 3family6 ( talk) 13:30, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Who deleted all the genres to begin with? DCcomicslover ( talk) 14:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I propose that we leave the flagicons. But what do you mean by splitting the page? By genres? DCcomicslover ( talk) 15:58, 23 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
The article is taking a long time to load, at least it is for me. I was thinking that maybe we should move the refs to a sub page like List of Christian metal bands/references and just leave the band names on the article itself. Comments? -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:28, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Source indicates that they're CCM/AOR. Quote is "a rock band [with] the ability to wear a variety of stylistic hats", one of which is "raunchy heavy metalers" and Man with a Mission definitely has some hard-rocking tracks, but not a single track is "raunchy" or even approaching what was taken as heavy metal in 1992. If the album had come out in 1972, it could have been considered metal. It goes on to mention "doowop revivalists", because they have a Billy Joel-inspired track on the album as well. And even if we accept it as a source for half, and I'm being generous her, of the tracks in the one album, you have five other albums' worth of material to account for. Their rockiest song was actually the title track of the previous album Long Way from Paradise. They were a west-coast AOR band not metal and Man with a Mission had some electric blues songs (direct musical rips from traditional blues songs with "Christianized" lyrics).
So here's a situation where the source indicates metal, but their overall body of work is not metal. I don't think that they should be listed, but we have a source that seems to support addition. I can confirm with the Encyclopedia of CCM tonight, but I can't imagine a reason to keep them in the list. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
I have never heard of the band before, so I cannot vouch from personal experience. But in the source it says that they have played heavy metal, which is a form of rock, and whether the album is "raunchy" or not is not up to us as editors. Tony Cummings is a professional writer and has followed the CCM scene for years. Even so, a band does not have to be included even if a reliable source can be provided, but we need a really good reason not to include them, beyond metal not being their predominant style (which, judging from sources, varied anyway). I will not put them back up for now, but a consensus needs to be developed or else they go back.-- 3family6 ( talk) 23:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Might make the list difficult to read, especially on narrow monitors or hand-held devices. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 15:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I say we keep Underoaths image and instead move it up top and just have that one. DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover:
Hi, I have watched this page for a while, and I personally feel that the page description needs to be fixed. Right now, the description reads: "This list features bands who have been determined to be Christian and play heavy metal music or one of its subgenres. This list omits some bands of disputed status as a "Christian band.""
Now this is the problem: What does the second sentence mean by "some bands of disputed status"? Who determines which bands are the "some" that are omitted? There are several bands on here that according to the description should not be here. Kekal and Trouble are two that I can think of offhand, and I know that there are others. Also, a helpful addition to the description would be an admonition that only bands with their own Wikipedia article should be included, as I constantly see bands listed on here that do not have an article.
So, my suggestion is that either
Either way, the description needs to be cleaned up so it is not as nebulous. --3family6 14:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 ( talk • contribs)
I am developing a list that splits the article by genre. See here to check and see if I should expand, fix, or create more categories. Thank you, -- 3family6 ( talk) 01:55, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
The list is pretty much finished, it will probably take a few weeks to implement it, I will list bands on my talk and when finished use the lists to create the separate pages.-- 3family6 ( talk) 03:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
I think its that the list is getting a bit long. DCcomicslover ( talk) 03:47, 30 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Here is my theory. I'll run it by you 2 first because I think we 3 oare the only ones on this page often enough. What if we only added the main subgenre of each band? I'm pretty good at subgenres and could do it over time. DCcomicslover ( talk) 17:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Good point. Any other ideas? DCcomicslover ( talk) 19:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
So far, a consensus doesn't seem to have developed. Should I just split the page alphabetically and ignore the genre debate for now?-- 3family6 ( talk) 22:11, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
I just found the List of thrash metal bands, and while it could use sourcing, I think the general layout idea might work well for this list. It will probably help with listing genres, and will take care of the flag infraction that Blackmetalbaz mentioned (though I still can't find what he is talking about).-- 3family6 ( talk) 14:00, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
The new editor on the punk list might have an interesting point. If we move the hardcore bands to the punk list that would free-up room on this list. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Define hardcore bands. that could mean anything. Metalcore? or what? DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
It Was. I don't even think we have any of those on this list that aren't metal sourced. DCcomicslover ( talk) 17:27, 30 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
This is an idea I have been brooding over for a while. With this list, and also pretty with the List of Christian punk bands, a great deal of the bands are metalcore. To help with size issues and maybe also to avoid annoying genre disputes, perhaps a separate List of Christian metalcore bands could be created?-- 3family6 ( talk) 03:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
A lot of bands on here (Dizmas, Underoath, Dead Poetic, etc.) have absolutely nothing to do with metal, and would only be labeled as such by someone who thinks that all hard music is metal. I'm currently busy editing the Christian punk list, so I thought I would throw it out there in case anyone else has the time. -- Invisiboy42293 ( talk) 23:44, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
I know, I know. No need to say I told you so. DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)Dcomicslover
I might have found an interview with them that can count as a source for them being included. It's on lambgoat. com DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:56, 14 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
http://www.lambgoat.com/features/interviews/spitfire.aspx I think this is it. 00:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover — Preceding unsigned comment added by DCcomicslover ( talk • contribs)
I'll work on it but I'm having a hard time finding band interviews. I HATE reclusive bands DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:27, 26 January 2011 (UTC)DCcomiclover Hmmm.... Would their Solid State Records page work? DCcomicslover ( talk) 23:18, 13 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
No it's cool. I guess I'll keep looking. If I can come up with one surely I can come up with 2.... What about their myspace profile? Tey're listed as gospel there. DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:20, 14 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
http://www.smother.net/interviews/spitfire.php try this.... DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover And I also found this as well. Not as deep as I dug for the last one. http://www.technicianonline.com/features/a-christian-band-with-a-metalcore-1.1111379 DCcomicslover ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
And The first one? DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!! Probably should wait for Walter though. He's the only one that really spends any time here. DCcomicslover ( talk) 21:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
Currently, To Speak of Wolves should not be on the list as there are no sources that state them as metal. Now, I have a heard a few of their songs, and I am positive they are metalcore, but my opinion does not count. The main problem is that they are just too small a group, perhaps when they get more exposure we will get a source.-- 3family6 ( talk) 20:21, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Callisto has been tagged for a bit, I'm just creating a section where they can be discussed. Issue in question: Allmusic simply mentions "religious imagery," it doesn't claim them to be Christian. I have yet to find a source for the band being Christian.-- 3family6 ( talk) 20:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2721 try this. Not sure how reliable it is But it was short notice research DCcomicslover ( talk) 16:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)DCcomicslover
I think it is about time we established a consensus on bands that are commonly added and removed from the page. To establish a consensus of a band, add the band below as a subheading of the Bands section, then cast your vote with a bold Include or Exclude, followed by your reasoning and your signature. If you wish to change your vote later on perhaps because people Have presented a good case for including the band, Strike out your previous vote Like this, and put a new vote, reason and signature beneath your old vote.
It should be known that they are not a Christian band. There have had countless interviews with the Band and always comes up "are you guys Christian?" Always answer is no. They have a lot of "inspirational" Lyrics but let's face it one of the members is gay and that would suggest not Christian. It's a great band and I could see why they may be considered Christian with the first three albums you can hear biblical themes if you know the Bible. I thin (not sure of this) one of the members is a Believer or is an apostate. 74.70.28.219 ( talk) 21:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Doug Pinnick has announced he is a homosexual, and he and another of the band's three members have renounced Christianity. However, they were considered a Christian band before that time, so I think they should be included, though an attempt at a consensus for their removal could be started if someone objected.-- 3family6 ( talk) 00:26, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I feel this is necessary to give us just cause for removing bands from the list, and avoid edit wars. if anyone has any objections to me putting this up, feel free. Axcess ( talk) 16:37, 21 February 2008 (UTC)