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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
"James Harte - PC - 38 - Leith Burgh Police - 4 April 1900 - Collapsed and died during an arrest" - I'm not sure if "collapsed and died during an arrest" is covered by the criteria of "only those who were killed as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act". Sounds more of a medical thing to me. What evidence do we have to support the notion that his collapse was caused by a human action rather than, say, a heart attack? S.G.(GH) ping! 12:21, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
An admirable list, but what's to stop people adding joke entries (hopefully not yet happened)? There are no references here. Malick78 ( talk) 22:02, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
It would be interesting to see a list that named all the people who have been *killed by* British police officers whilst on duty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.133.245 ( talk) 22:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
As a former officer of the Nottingham City Police and, post amalgamation, the Nottinghamshire Combined Constabulary, I was disappointed to note the absence from this list of PC James (Jim) Gorringe, Traffic Division, who died around 1969/70 when a commercial vehicle ploughed through the scene of a night-time motorway traffic incident which he was working. Those of us who served in the Traffic Division with Jim held him in the highest regard, both as a professional officer and friend. Hopefully others who worked with Jim will see and support this request for the inclusion of his name in this memorial list of officers losing their lives while performing their duty.Facts and dates should be verifiable through records still held by the current Nottinghamshire Constabulary. (Contributed by former PC 637 Large - e-mail = glarge@tpcg.org) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.48.244 ( talk) 04:59, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Earlier today I reverted the addition of one suicide, but I see that one remains. It could be argued that, while it may an officer's duty sometimes to put him or herself in mortal danger, it is never his or her duty to commit suicide after tbe event. It may indeed be some considerable time after the event. But what is the argeed policy here? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 15:46, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Salt was not killed "as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act." Nor was he assaulted while on surveillance duties. He died from head injuries caused by falling on a mechanical digger after getting drunk on duty. See Bassey, Amardeep: "Queen's 'Hero' cop was drunk on duty: Disgraced officer honoured in the Mall"; Sunday Mercury (Birmingham) 8 May 2005. Regarding Salt's inclusion in the roll of honour, Sir Geoffrey Dear, West Midlands Chief Constable at the time of PC Salt's death said "Technically, he was on duty albeit in unusual circumstances and he was acting in a way that was not in the best interests of the force." Three black men who were arrested and charged with his killing were eventually cleared of all charges and awarded £100,000 compensation in an out-of-court settlement with the force. The circumstances surrounding Salt's death were also raised in the House of Commons on 12 December 1991. [1] Keri ( talk) 12:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
DENNIS STANLEY BUNTING. Born ?.?.19??. Killed aged 39 in the Chinook helicopter disaster on the Mull of Kintyre, Scotland on 2 June 1994 while en route to an anti-terrorist conference. A Detective Inspector with the RUC Special Branch intelligence team. 2.26.239.34 ( talk) 23:28, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
The list does not include PC Bill Barker of the Cumbria Police, who died in the course of duty during the 2009 Cockermouth floods. He was directing the public away from a bridge that was in danger of collapse from the force of the floodwater running under it. The bridge suddenly collapsed under him. He was swept away by the floodwater and drowned. http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cumbria/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8378000/8378388.stm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.170.5 ( talk) 23:34, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Bill Barker and others killed in the line of duty should be included in this list. It is It is invidious that he and others are not included. Many officers died heroically in cases where their casues of death were not crime related. This list should include all officers killed in the line of duty and rely more on official records to aid its impartiality and completeness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fitzbrowne ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
It is being reported that one of the victims of the Manchester Arena bombing was a off-duty police officer. Depending on how we read the current criteria, we could either include or exclude her. In one obvious counter example, Stephen Tibble was shot dead whilst off-duty, but he was actively assisting a colleague - who he had made himself known to - at the time. It seems very unlikely that something similar happened in Manchester, although the officer was undoubtedly killed, "as a direct result of a crime." Nick Cooper ( talk) 13:54, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
There were confirmed to be 2 PCs killed in the crash, who were two police observers, PCs Kirsty Nelis and Tony Collins. Should they be included in the List? They did get killed whilst still on Duty as police observers in the Helicopter? BSOleader ( talk) 11:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I was going to suggest that they where but in the accident report of the crash it does say that they where returning to base to refuel, if the crash had happened on route to a emergency or in pursuit of a suspect then fair enough. BSOleader ( talk) 15:44, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
PC Steve Jenkins has died whilst on duty on 6 october 2017, it is still unclear what the nature of the death was so please do not add it yet until it becomes clear if he did die during performing his duty as a PC. Theprussian ( talk) 19:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Update: Died at police station [1] Theprussian ( talk) 14:36, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
References
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cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
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help)
Please do not add James Dixon to this list. He died in an accident during training. Although I do think it is time for a list of police officer killed outside their line of duty, such as in accidents, suicides and attacked off duty.
Theprussian ( talk) 14:34, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
Adding list by year as this is what done with: /info/en/?search=List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
If there is a list of American Police officers killed in the line of duty, with no exceptions whether or not they died in training or as a direct result of crime then I feel that there should be a British equivalent. Especially as the British list is alot shorter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ModoSN ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
The intro says the list does not include death by RTC but RTC deaths are in the list. Also' killed in the line of duty' in the heading - yet includes off-duty officer deaths. There needs to be some clarity from the initiator and perhaps the heading shuld be simplified and a few tables set up on the page for the different categories so that all the deaths can be recorded on the page in their respective categories.
According to the (IMHO) arbitrary and unnecessarily restrictive criteria on this list, the last entry DC Clive Barratt of Suffolk Police should not be listed here. He was "Fatally injured in a road accident when his unmarked police motorcycle collided with a tractor whilst on surveillance duty at Lowestoft." Vehicle accidents don't count - unless it seems a suspect rams into that police vehicle according to some of the other entries.
As a fellow motorcyclist I'm loathe to delete Barratt's entry, he should rightly be remembered here, so I'd love to reach consensus on changing the criteria. Failing that, his entry should be deleted.
Does anyone else agree it needs to be changed? (see this edit to a section above from another editor today who clearly feels as strong as I do about the need for change. 10mmsocket ( talk) 15:03, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion of the article relating to Andrew Harper's Death was unlawful and not a reasonable cause of action. For some reason, people are suggesting that you require a court ruling to determine a cause of death. Even though it is factually clear that PC Harper was killed in a vehicle-ramming attack.
Please do not interfere in such articles if you are not aware of UK Policing matters. Theprussian ( talk) 21:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
"but this article includes only those who were killed as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act." This is pretty Arbitrary in my view and does not cover quite a few "Line of Duty Deaths"(For example, PC Nick Dumphreys who is considered to have died in the line of duty but does not fit the criteria.), including officers killed in accidents whilst considered to be "in the line of duty". There also seems to be a lot of deaths in this article (particularly ones with roof accidents) which fails to qualify to the above article criteria.
Either: This article name needs to change and many deaths in the article need to be taken out for not fitting the criteria...
OR
The criteria should be expanded to all officers killed "in the line of duty".
Theprussian ( talk) 21:23, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Why aren't Bow Street Runners on the list? They were paid, had the same duties that most of these police officers died performing and had law enforcement as their occupation. Why aren't Charlies (London watchmen in the 1600s) on the list? I think they qualified as police officers because they were paid and their occupation was to enforce the law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.176.73 ( talk) 20:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
British transport police are not, and have never been under Home office oversight, but they are Police in the Grate Braitan (Note not NI), and have the power to arrest and many have died as a result of violence in the line of duty... they should be included The Emperor of Byzantium ( talk) 21:46, 08 February 2022 (UTC)
Any death of a Northern Ireland Police Officer pre 2001 should be listed as the Royal Ulster Constabulary not the PSNI 2A02:C7F:1E3C:6700:F529:4207:312B:7578 ( talk) 08:05, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
You have omitted PC Francis John MASON, shot in the back and killed on the 14th April 1988. He was a Hertfordshire officer, out walking his dog and off duty. He saw a security van being robbed and intervened. He was shot in the back and died of his wound. He is on the Police Roll of Honour. A very brave man. Phil5736 ( talk) 08:34, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
My cousin Joanna Cochran died when the police car she was driving crashed while pursuing a suspect in a police pursuit - how is her death less notable than someone who "collapsed and died after x"? What is the point of a list of British Police Officers killed in the line of duty if there's an arbitrary rule that only certain police officers killed in the line of duty in only certain ways is included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.208.76.14 ( talk • contribs) 15:37, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Name | Rank | Age | Force | Date of death | Circumstances |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
James "Dixie" Dixon | PC | 44 | Thames Valley Police | 5 December 2017 | Crashed his police motorcycle while on a training exercise also killing a 91 year-old civilian. |
Is this an incorrect entry? A training exercise doesn't seem the fit the listing criteria [that I believe should be expanded) 10mmsocket ( talk) 16:37, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Where is Frank oneil 2A00:23C7:D883:B901:1C61:EC86:78BE:64C7 ( talk) 23:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
Missing from the list: Sgt Brian Dawson, Leicestershire Police, 1st September 1975 aged 42. Shot by suspect firing gun into street. Two others killed at same time 2A02:C7C:8E46:9B00:FD32:D38E:D3D2:E7AB ( talk) 06:36, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Today's featured article of the Epsom riot has highlighted the death of Sergeant Thomas Green, who is absent from this page, so I will address this. Nick Cooper ( talk) Nick Cooper ( talk) 11:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
It appears that a different format has been used for some of the later entries into this list. If the list is sorted by date, there are 15 entries that don't sort correctly. Unfortunately beyond my knowledge to correct. 155.190.13.13 ( talk) 00:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
"James Harte - PC - 38 - Leith Burgh Police - 4 April 1900 - Collapsed and died during an arrest" - I'm not sure if "collapsed and died during an arrest" is covered by the criteria of "only those who were killed as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act". Sounds more of a medical thing to me. What evidence do we have to support the notion that his collapse was caused by a human action rather than, say, a heart attack? S.G.(GH) ping! 12:21, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
An admirable list, but what's to stop people adding joke entries (hopefully not yet happened)? There are no references here. Malick78 ( talk) 22:02, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
It would be interesting to see a list that named all the people who have been *killed by* British police officers whilst on duty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.101.133.245 ( talk) 22:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
As a former officer of the Nottingham City Police and, post amalgamation, the Nottinghamshire Combined Constabulary, I was disappointed to note the absence from this list of PC James (Jim) Gorringe, Traffic Division, who died around 1969/70 when a commercial vehicle ploughed through the scene of a night-time motorway traffic incident which he was working. Those of us who served in the Traffic Division with Jim held him in the highest regard, both as a professional officer and friend. Hopefully others who worked with Jim will see and support this request for the inclusion of his name in this memorial list of officers losing their lives while performing their duty.Facts and dates should be verifiable through records still held by the current Nottinghamshire Constabulary. (Contributed by former PC 637 Large - e-mail = glarge@tpcg.org) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.50.48.244 ( talk) 04:59, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
Earlier today I reverted the addition of one suicide, but I see that one remains. It could be argued that, while it may an officer's duty sometimes to put him or herself in mortal danger, it is never his or her duty to commit suicide after tbe event. It may indeed be some considerable time after the event. But what is the argeed policy here? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 15:46, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
Salt was not killed "as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act." Nor was he assaulted while on surveillance duties. He died from head injuries caused by falling on a mechanical digger after getting drunk on duty. See Bassey, Amardeep: "Queen's 'Hero' cop was drunk on duty: Disgraced officer honoured in the Mall"; Sunday Mercury (Birmingham) 8 May 2005. Regarding Salt's inclusion in the roll of honour, Sir Geoffrey Dear, West Midlands Chief Constable at the time of PC Salt's death said "Technically, he was on duty albeit in unusual circumstances and he was acting in a way that was not in the best interests of the force." Three black men who were arrested and charged with his killing were eventually cleared of all charges and awarded £100,000 compensation in an out-of-court settlement with the force. The circumstances surrounding Salt's death were also raised in the House of Commons on 12 December 1991. [1] Keri ( talk) 12:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
DENNIS STANLEY BUNTING. Born ?.?.19??. Killed aged 39 in the Chinook helicopter disaster on the Mull of Kintyre, Scotland on 2 June 1994 while en route to an anti-terrorist conference. A Detective Inspector with the RUC Special Branch intelligence team. 2.26.239.34 ( talk) 23:28, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
The list does not include PC Bill Barker of the Cumbria Police, who died in the course of duty during the 2009 Cockermouth floods. He was directing the public away from a bridge that was in danger of collapse from the force of the floodwater running under it. The bridge suddenly collapsed under him. He was swept away by the floodwater and drowned. http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/cumbria/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8378000/8378388.stm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.170.5 ( talk) 23:34, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Bill Barker and others killed in the line of duty should be included in this list. It is It is invidious that he and others are not included. Many officers died heroically in cases where their casues of death were not crime related. This list should include all officers killed in the line of duty and rely more on official records to aid its impartiality and completeness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fitzbrowne ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
It is being reported that one of the victims of the Manchester Arena bombing was a off-duty police officer. Depending on how we read the current criteria, we could either include or exclude her. In one obvious counter example, Stephen Tibble was shot dead whilst off-duty, but he was actively assisting a colleague - who he had made himself known to - at the time. It seems very unlikely that something similar happened in Manchester, although the officer was undoubtedly killed, "as a direct result of a crime." Nick Cooper ( talk) 13:54, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
There were confirmed to be 2 PCs killed in the crash, who were two police observers, PCs Kirsty Nelis and Tony Collins. Should they be included in the List? They did get killed whilst still on Duty as police observers in the Helicopter? BSOleader ( talk) 11:42, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I was going to suggest that they where but in the accident report of the crash it does say that they where returning to base to refuel, if the crash had happened on route to a emergency or in pursuit of a suspect then fair enough. BSOleader ( talk) 15:44, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
PC Steve Jenkins has died whilst on duty on 6 october 2017, it is still unclear what the nature of the death was so please do not add it yet until it becomes clear if he did die during performing his duty as a PC. Theprussian ( talk) 19:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Update: Died at police station [1] Theprussian ( talk) 14:36, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
Please do not add James Dixon to this list. He died in an accident during training. Although I do think it is time for a list of police officer killed outside their line of duty, such as in accidents, suicides and attacked off duty.
Theprussian ( talk) 14:34, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
Adding list by year as this is what done with: /info/en/?search=List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty
If there is a list of American Police officers killed in the line of duty, with no exceptions whether or not they died in training or as a direct result of crime then I feel that there should be a British equivalent. Especially as the British list is alot shorter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ModoSN ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
The intro says the list does not include death by RTC but RTC deaths are in the list. Also' killed in the line of duty' in the heading - yet includes off-duty officer deaths. There needs to be some clarity from the initiator and perhaps the heading shuld be simplified and a few tables set up on the page for the different categories so that all the deaths can be recorded on the page in their respective categories.
According to the (IMHO) arbitrary and unnecessarily restrictive criteria on this list, the last entry DC Clive Barratt of Suffolk Police should not be listed here. He was "Fatally injured in a road accident when his unmarked police motorcycle collided with a tractor whilst on surveillance duty at Lowestoft." Vehicle accidents don't count - unless it seems a suspect rams into that police vehicle according to some of the other entries.
As a fellow motorcyclist I'm loathe to delete Barratt's entry, he should rightly be remembered here, so I'd love to reach consensus on changing the criteria. Failing that, his entry should be deleted.
Does anyone else agree it needs to be changed? (see this edit to a section above from another editor today who clearly feels as strong as I do about the need for change. 10mmsocket ( talk) 15:03, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Speedy Deletion of the article relating to Andrew Harper's Death was unlawful and not a reasonable cause of action. For some reason, people are suggesting that you require a court ruling to determine a cause of death. Even though it is factually clear that PC Harper was killed in a vehicle-ramming attack.
Please do not interfere in such articles if you are not aware of UK Policing matters. Theprussian ( talk) 21:54, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
"but this article includes only those who were killed as a direct result of a crime or while attempting to prevent, stop or solve a specific criminal act." This is pretty Arbitrary in my view and does not cover quite a few "Line of Duty Deaths"(For example, PC Nick Dumphreys who is considered to have died in the line of duty but does not fit the criteria.), including officers killed in accidents whilst considered to be "in the line of duty". There also seems to be a lot of deaths in this article (particularly ones with roof accidents) which fails to qualify to the above article criteria.
Either: This article name needs to change and many deaths in the article need to be taken out for not fitting the criteria...
OR
The criteria should be expanded to all officers killed "in the line of duty".
Theprussian ( talk) 21:23, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Why aren't Bow Street Runners on the list? They were paid, had the same duties that most of these police officers died performing and had law enforcement as their occupation. Why aren't Charlies (London watchmen in the 1600s) on the list? I think they qualified as police officers because they were paid and their occupation was to enforce the law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.176.73 ( talk) 20:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
British transport police are not, and have never been under Home office oversight, but they are Police in the Grate Braitan (Note not NI), and have the power to arrest and many have died as a result of violence in the line of duty... they should be included The Emperor of Byzantium ( talk) 21:46, 08 February 2022 (UTC)
Any death of a Northern Ireland Police Officer pre 2001 should be listed as the Royal Ulster Constabulary not the PSNI 2A02:C7F:1E3C:6700:F529:4207:312B:7578 ( talk) 08:05, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
You have omitted PC Francis John MASON, shot in the back and killed on the 14th April 1988. He was a Hertfordshire officer, out walking his dog and off duty. He saw a security van being robbed and intervened. He was shot in the back and died of his wound. He is on the Police Roll of Honour. A very brave man. Phil5736 ( talk) 08:34, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
My cousin Joanna Cochran died when the police car she was driving crashed while pursuing a suspect in a police pursuit - how is her death less notable than someone who "collapsed and died after x"? What is the point of a list of British Police Officers killed in the line of duty if there's an arbitrary rule that only certain police officers killed in the line of duty in only certain ways is included? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.208.76.14 ( talk • contribs) 15:37, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Name | Rank | Age | Force | Date of death | Circumstances |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
James "Dixie" Dixon | PC | 44 | Thames Valley Police | 5 December 2017 | Crashed his police motorcycle while on a training exercise also killing a 91 year-old civilian. |
Is this an incorrect entry? A training exercise doesn't seem the fit the listing criteria [that I believe should be expanded) 10mmsocket ( talk) 16:37, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Where is Frank oneil 2A00:23C7:D883:B901:1C61:EC86:78BE:64C7 ( talk) 23:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
Missing from the list: Sgt Brian Dawson, Leicestershire Police, 1st September 1975 aged 42. Shot by suspect firing gun into street. Two others killed at same time 2A02:C7C:8E46:9B00:FD32:D38E:D3D2:E7AB ( talk) 06:36, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Today's featured article of the Epsom riot has highlighted the death of Sergeant Thomas Green, who is absent from this page, so I will address this. Nick Cooper ( talk) Nick Cooper ( talk) 11:00, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
It appears that a different format has been used for some of the later entries into this list. If the list is sorted by date, there are 15 entries that don't sort correctly. Unfortunately beyond my knowledge to correct. 155.190.13.13 ( talk) 00:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC)