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Right, well since it was said in VfD that changes should be discussed here - I feel the non British Empire/Commonwealth country lists are just too short. My opinion is that it would be better off having one list by nationality of all the non-commonwealth countries. Average Earthman 16:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I agree with the above statements it would be better to include all countries who have a very small number of VC recipients in one separate list.
Would others interested in constructing Lists of VC recipients by nationality not agree that for confirmation & biographical reasons it is necessary that birth, dates and place names should be included to confirm nationality.
To define whether a VC is to be listed under Scottish, Welsh, English or Irish recipients lists their birth dates & place names must be inclosed to define their countries of origin. Remembering all UK VCs were classed as British citizens (Including those born in Ireland before 1949 (Nationality Act)
Likewise if a VC has been born in one country and then naturalised in another commonwealth country like many Australian and Canadian VCs were, then they can be included on two lists.
Information regards births dates and place names can be found in all three editions of 'The Register of the Victoria Cross' 1981, 1988 & 1997.
I have inserted birth dates, place names and death records to all 168 Irish Recipients of the Victoria Cross.
George Fleming
At least for New Zealand there are some "errors". The commonly cited number of New Zealanders awarded Victoria Crosses is 22 -- which does not include Henry Cecil Dudgeon D'arcy and Bernard Freyberg who are listed in the New Zealand section. But, Freyberg was commissioned in the NZ Army and was later Governor-General of NZ, and D'arcy was born in New Zealand. So it gets confusing. I would have to guess that there are similar cases for the other nationalities. Any thoughts on how this should be dealt with? Evil Monkey - Hello 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
And to the original "List of New Zealander Victoria Cross recipients" I had added "those buried in NZ" and "those with a family connection" eg several in the AIF plus William Barnard Rhodes-Moorehouse in WWI - how do I get those back into an accessible list? While a note could be added to the Australian and British lists, the idea was to avoid the need to trawl long lists to find any VC winners buried in NZ! Hugo999 ( talk) 04:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I would support the little flags not being used. There seems to be a number of errors. In theory Charles Heaphy (1864) should have a Union Flag, since the current New Zealand flag was not adopted (at least in part) until 1869. The current flag of the British Virgin Islands was not adopted until 1960. Likewise, the flag of Jamaica wasn't adopted until 1962. To be really nit-picky, the German flags should be Image:Flag of Germany (2-3).svg, the flag of the German Confederation. All the Indian awards should be the Star of India (flag). I could be just being really anal here, because I can't be bothered fixing them :-) Evil Monkey - Hello 08:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
There does not seem to be a definition of nationality. Is it place of birth or citizenship at the time of the award of the VC. Or should it be the nationality of the force in which the recipient was awarded the Victoria Cross. For Jørgen Jensen was born in Denmark but he became a British subject in 1914 and was awarded the Victoria Cross as a member of the Australian forces. The reason he became a British subject in 1914 was because then there was no such thing as Australian citizenship. Indeed no Australians who were citizens when they were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross and only four Australian citizens have been awarded the Victoria Cross. The Australian Citizenship Act came into effect on 26 January 1949 so only the four Vietnam War recipients were Australian citizens when awarded the Victoria Cross. Since all four were born before 26 January 1949 then no Australians who were citizens when the were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross.
I think that nationality of the force should be the criterion which is the criterion for nationality by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The nationalities for Commonwealth War Dead are Australia, Canada, (Undivided) India, New Zealand, South Africa and United Kingdom. If the criterion is citizenship then there are just four Australian recipients and if it is place of birth there are 80 Australia recipients since 17 of the 91 members of the Australian forces were not born in Australia. In addition to the 74 Australian born members of the Australian forces there are six Australian born recipients of other forces. So until Beatham is listed as English, Birks as Welsh, Cooke as New Zealand etc I will delete Jensen as Danish.-- Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
It should also be noted that Wing Cdr John Dering Nettleton VC is listed as Rhodesian yet he was born in Nongoma in South Africa, moving to Cape Town in 1928 where he went to Western Province Prep School until entering the SA Training Ship 'General Botha' at Simon's Town. On qualifying as a merchant navy cadet, he went to sea and served ashore locally, also joining the RNVR (SA) in Cape Town. He then went to GB to join the RAF. I can find no record of him being Rhodesian and the only apparent link was the squadron he served in which was the 'Rhodesian' squadron. (AG Soderlund) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.69.68 ( talk) 20:10, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
After an IP has been reinstating the content of List of Indian Victoria Cross recipients, I may as well open up discussion again. Currently, those countries with over 75 recipients have their own lists due to their size. Below that, there is no need for a separate list, it is all included here. Whilst I accept that a separate list could become an FL, there is no need as it can be perfectly included here as it is at the moment. What do other people think? Woody ( talk) 13:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the incomplete tag as this list is as complete as it is going to get due to size constraints. As is stated on the list, some nationalities are summarised here and expanded on in their own lists. What is incomplete about this list as it stands? Woody ( talk) 13:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Sgt Aubrey Cousins, VC from Latchford, Ontario, Canada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.180.163 ( talk) 23:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
also Canadian Campbell Mellis Douglas
also Canadian Alexander Dunn at the Battle of Balaclava
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.128.230 ( talk) 17:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Also missing:
Lt Colonel Herbert Jones 2 PARA, UK ARMY - Falklands Ward 1982 - 27/28 May Action at Goose Green — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henryward1957 ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
The names of all those who received VCs at the Battle of Rorke’s Drift should be included: Lieutenant John Rouse Merriott Chard, 5th Field Coy, Royal Engineers, Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Corporal William Wilson Allen; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Frederick Hitch; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Alfred Henry Hook; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Robert Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private William Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private John Williams; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Surgeon James Henry Reynolds; Army Medical Department, Acting Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton; Commissariat and Transport Department. Corporal Christian Ferdinand Schiess; 2nd/3rd Natal Native Contingent — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryGMason ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Bede_Kenny — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
217.68.101.68 (
talk)
13:36, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
Portuguese Private Aníbal Augusto Milhais, in the Battle of La Lys, April 1918, received the Victoria Cross for his acts, covering the retreat of thousands of British soldiers. PR.PT ( talk) 15:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
What are the guidelines for Nationality? I see John Danaher is listed as South African in the list but his Wiki page lists him as Irish. Can someone put together a short guideline perhaps? Gbawden ( talk) 08:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
This is not a list of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. It is "A_List_of_Miscellaneous_Victoria_Cross_recipients_by_nationality_selected_according_to_whether_the _citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_less_than_75_Victoria_Crosses_mixed_with_pointers_to_other_pages_where_the_citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_more_than_75." Of course, such a title would be very confusing — but not less confusing than the manner in which the page is currently formatted.
I understand that a single list with over 1300 items might be unwieldy but making the minor exceptions the major component of a topic is very poor style. All the items on a list should possess similar semantic content. That is, a list of recipients should contain recipients and a list of pointers should contain pointers. No professional editor would let an author get away with mixing the two like this because readers find it confusing. My suggestion is that this page become a list of lists and its current list of VC recipients placed on another list with an appropriate title such as, for example, "A List of Victoria Cross Recipients Other Nationalities". With perhaps some text to describe the selection criterion and why it's necessary. 75.157.135.57 ( talk) 07:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
From the second paragraph that suggests the VC is a ‘military decoration’ to the last paragraph that states ‘Several Commonwealth countries have now created their own award systems’ the summary of the history of the VC is replete with errors. The VC is a decoration that is usually awarded to the military but has in the past been awarded to civilians. It is not several countries but all major countries of the Commonwealth which have created their own award systems. However, in the third paragraph ‘Between 1897 and 1901, several notices were issued in the London Gazette regarding soldiers who would have been awarded the VC had they survived. In a partial reversal of policy in 1902, six of the soldiers mentioned were granted the VC, but not "officially" awarded the medal.’ shows a total misunderstanding of posthumous awards. There were three notices issued in 1900 and 1901 and in an exception to policy for the South African War, the next of kin of the three received their medals in 1902. At the same time, three posthumous VCs awards were also gazetted. Since this is a list of recipients, the history and evolution of the VC does not need to be repeated and all paragraphs after the first should be deleted. -- Anthony Staunton ( talk) 00:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
(I can’t see how to do it); Link says 91, but there are 100 Australians listed (at the link); 96 + 4 newies. MBG02 ( talk) 07:26, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
![]() | List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured list |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Right, well since it was said in VfD that changes should be discussed here - I feel the non British Empire/Commonwealth country lists are just too short. My opinion is that it would be better off having one list by nationality of all the non-commonwealth countries. Average Earthman 16:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I agree with the above statements it would be better to include all countries who have a very small number of VC recipients in one separate list.
Would others interested in constructing Lists of VC recipients by nationality not agree that for confirmation & biographical reasons it is necessary that birth, dates and place names should be included to confirm nationality.
To define whether a VC is to be listed under Scottish, Welsh, English or Irish recipients lists their birth dates & place names must be inclosed to define their countries of origin. Remembering all UK VCs were classed as British citizens (Including those born in Ireland before 1949 (Nationality Act)
Likewise if a VC has been born in one country and then naturalised in another commonwealth country like many Australian and Canadian VCs were, then they can be included on two lists.
Information regards births dates and place names can be found in all three editions of 'The Register of the Victoria Cross' 1981, 1988 & 1997.
I have inserted birth dates, place names and death records to all 168 Irish Recipients of the Victoria Cross.
George Fleming
At least for New Zealand there are some "errors". The commonly cited number of New Zealanders awarded Victoria Crosses is 22 -- which does not include Henry Cecil Dudgeon D'arcy and Bernard Freyberg who are listed in the New Zealand section. But, Freyberg was commissioned in the NZ Army and was later Governor-General of NZ, and D'arcy was born in New Zealand. So it gets confusing. I would have to guess that there are similar cases for the other nationalities. Any thoughts on how this should be dealt with? Evil Monkey - Hello 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
And to the original "List of New Zealander Victoria Cross recipients" I had added "those buried in NZ" and "those with a family connection" eg several in the AIF plus William Barnard Rhodes-Moorehouse in WWI - how do I get those back into an accessible list? While a note could be added to the Australian and British lists, the idea was to avoid the need to trawl long lists to find any VC winners buried in NZ! Hugo999 ( talk) 04:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I would support the little flags not being used. There seems to be a number of errors. In theory Charles Heaphy (1864) should have a Union Flag, since the current New Zealand flag was not adopted (at least in part) until 1869. The current flag of the British Virgin Islands was not adopted until 1960. Likewise, the flag of Jamaica wasn't adopted until 1962. To be really nit-picky, the German flags should be Image:Flag of Germany (2-3).svg, the flag of the German Confederation. All the Indian awards should be the Star of India (flag). I could be just being really anal here, because I can't be bothered fixing them :-) Evil Monkey - Hello 08:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
There does not seem to be a definition of nationality. Is it place of birth or citizenship at the time of the award of the VC. Or should it be the nationality of the force in which the recipient was awarded the Victoria Cross. For Jørgen Jensen was born in Denmark but he became a British subject in 1914 and was awarded the Victoria Cross as a member of the Australian forces. The reason he became a British subject in 1914 was because then there was no such thing as Australian citizenship. Indeed no Australians who were citizens when they were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross and only four Australian citizens have been awarded the Victoria Cross. The Australian Citizenship Act came into effect on 26 January 1949 so only the four Vietnam War recipients were Australian citizens when awarded the Victoria Cross. Since all four were born before 26 January 1949 then no Australians who were citizens when the were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross.
I think that nationality of the force should be the criterion which is the criterion for nationality by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The nationalities for Commonwealth War Dead are Australia, Canada, (Undivided) India, New Zealand, South Africa and United Kingdom. If the criterion is citizenship then there are just four Australian recipients and if it is place of birth there are 80 Australia recipients since 17 of the 91 members of the Australian forces were not born in Australia. In addition to the 74 Australian born members of the Australian forces there are six Australian born recipients of other forces. So until Beatham is listed as English, Birks as Welsh, Cooke as New Zealand etc I will delete Jensen as Danish.-- Anthony Staunton ( talk) 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
It should also be noted that Wing Cdr John Dering Nettleton VC is listed as Rhodesian yet he was born in Nongoma in South Africa, moving to Cape Town in 1928 where he went to Western Province Prep School until entering the SA Training Ship 'General Botha' at Simon's Town. On qualifying as a merchant navy cadet, he went to sea and served ashore locally, also joining the RNVR (SA) in Cape Town. He then went to GB to join the RAF. I can find no record of him being Rhodesian and the only apparent link was the squadron he served in which was the 'Rhodesian' squadron. (AG Soderlund) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.69.68 ( talk) 20:10, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
After an IP has been reinstating the content of List of Indian Victoria Cross recipients, I may as well open up discussion again. Currently, those countries with over 75 recipients have their own lists due to their size. Below that, there is no need for a separate list, it is all included here. Whilst I accept that a separate list could become an FL, there is no need as it can be perfectly included here as it is at the moment. What do other people think? Woody ( talk) 13:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the incomplete tag as this list is as complete as it is going to get due to size constraints. As is stated on the list, some nationalities are summarised here and expanded on in their own lists. What is incomplete about this list as it stands? Woody ( talk) 13:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Sgt Aubrey Cousins, VC from Latchford, Ontario, Canada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.180.163 ( talk) 23:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
also Canadian Campbell Mellis Douglas
also Canadian Alexander Dunn at the Battle of Balaclava
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.128.230 ( talk) 17:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Also missing:
Lt Colonel Herbert Jones 2 PARA, UK ARMY - Falklands Ward 1982 - 27/28 May Action at Goose Green — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henryward1957 ( talk • contribs) 07:11, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
The names of all those who received VCs at the Battle of Rorke’s Drift should be included: Lieutenant John Rouse Merriott Chard, 5th Field Coy, Royal Engineers, Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Corporal William Wilson Allen; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Frederick Hitch; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Alfred Henry Hook; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Robert Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private William Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private John Williams; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Surgeon James Henry Reynolds; Army Medical Department, Acting Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton; Commissariat and Transport Department. Corporal Christian Ferdinand Schiess; 2nd/3rd Natal Native Contingent — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryGMason ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Bede_Kenny — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
217.68.101.68 (
talk)
13:36, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
Portuguese Private Aníbal Augusto Milhais, in the Battle of La Lys, April 1918, received the Victoria Cross for his acts, covering the retreat of thousands of British soldiers. PR.PT ( talk) 15:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
What are the guidelines for Nationality? I see John Danaher is listed as South African in the list but his Wiki page lists him as Irish. Can someone put together a short guideline perhaps? Gbawden ( talk) 08:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
This is not a list of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. It is "A_List_of_Miscellaneous_Victoria_Cross_recipients_by_nationality_selected_according_to_whether_the _citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_less_than_75_Victoria_Crosses_mixed_with_pointers_to_other_pages_where_the_citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_more_than_75." Of course, such a title would be very confusing — but not less confusing than the manner in which the page is currently formatted.
I understand that a single list with over 1300 items might be unwieldy but making the minor exceptions the major component of a topic is very poor style. All the items on a list should possess similar semantic content. That is, a list of recipients should contain recipients and a list of pointers should contain pointers. No professional editor would let an author get away with mixing the two like this because readers find it confusing. My suggestion is that this page become a list of lists and its current list of VC recipients placed on another list with an appropriate title such as, for example, "A List of Victoria Cross Recipients Other Nationalities". With perhaps some text to describe the selection criterion and why it's necessary. 75.157.135.57 ( talk) 07:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
From the second paragraph that suggests the VC is a ‘military decoration’ to the last paragraph that states ‘Several Commonwealth countries have now created their own award systems’ the summary of the history of the VC is replete with errors. The VC is a decoration that is usually awarded to the military but has in the past been awarded to civilians. It is not several countries but all major countries of the Commonwealth which have created their own award systems. However, in the third paragraph ‘Between 1897 and 1901, several notices were issued in the London Gazette regarding soldiers who would have been awarded the VC had they survived. In a partial reversal of policy in 1902, six of the soldiers mentioned were granted the VC, but not "officially" awarded the medal.’ shows a total misunderstanding of posthumous awards. There were three notices issued in 1900 and 1901 and in an exception to policy for the South African War, the next of kin of the three received their medals in 1902. At the same time, three posthumous VCs awards were also gazetted. Since this is a list of recipients, the history and evolution of the VC does not need to be repeated and all paragraphs after the first should be deleted. -- Anthony Staunton ( talk) 00:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:01, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
(I can’t see how to do it); Link says 91, but there are 100 Australians listed (at the link); 96 + 4 newies. MBG02 ( talk) 07:26, 24 August 2018 (UTC)