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What does the bold font mean? There's no legend or key. Matti Nuortio, Oulu, Finland ( talk) 15:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Need to add Criti Noll-as-Hank Pym, as well as the skrull posing as Mockingbird with the west coast branch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.87.189.226 ( talk) 00:26, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Where's Jarvis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.90.172 ( talk) 13:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Considering that there has been such debate over D-man's status in the past, I would appreciate it if people did not edit and remove references that the "other side" are citing. Even though I have shown that a number of Spshu's "Never Joined" references are irrelevant or just plain wrong, I have left them there so as to not create an "edit war." The most recent incidence of this was particularly nonsensical, as the issue being moved from "Joined Sources" to "Never Joined Sources" was Captain America #349, the issue in which Demolition Man is offered and accepts membership into the Avengers. LobtsterJ ( talk) 16:58, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I vote for putting it back solely in the 'joined sources', but honestly most of the 'sources' Spshu uses to show D-Man isn't an official member make little rational sense. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I still get a kick out of you insisting Tom Breevort isn't credible. The guy who has edited the Avengers books for the past 15 years. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Ultrabasurero, we've been arguing these points with Spshu for literally years at this point. He doesn't seem to look at sources and make a decision based on what the sources show him, he has an idea in his head that he absolutely cannot be wrong and then tries to jam the sources into his worldview whether or not they actually fit(they usually don't, as evidenced by him using sources that actually show D-Man as a member as a source against it, the encyclopedia not specifically listing D-Man as an Avengers member is a good example of this). SlamBurger ( talk) 20:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Avengers Assemble, which is one of those "profile on important people" books lists Demolition Man as an inactive member. This is current continuity, and it flat out lists him. He's a member, end of story. Darquis ( talk) 11:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is anyone else interested in eliminating the Questionable section, and integrating those characters back into the original team section? I know there are some editors of this article, who adamantly argue about the status of certain characters with The Avengers, but at this point were talking about 8 characters here! (Hellcat, Two-Gun Kid, Jocasta, Thing, D-Man, Sandman, Rage, Machine Man). Clearly all of them have had some status with The Avengers at one time or another, and there is just the question of when they might have been given that status. We wouldn't even need to change the notes for most of them, as long as we continue to indicate the conflicting information. I just don't think that there needs to be a separate section for these characters. What do you think? Fortdj33 ( talk) 14:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I would be for it. As long as the notes continue to reflect that there are differing opinions. If we went through every reference for every Avenger, I'm sure we could find omissions of characters the people consider 100% Avengers no questions. No need to keep these 8 separate because they are more contested than others LobtsterJ ( talk) 14:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. I don't like the 'questionable' section and feel it serves no real purpose. Put them back into the regular listings with notes as needed. SlamBurger ( talk) 17:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I love it when actual progress on making this page look and read better gets stalled. SlamBurger ( talk) 16:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Spshu, please don't remove the references to Avengers 305, as it makes clear the status of quite a few Avengers, whatever your personal bias against it is. SlamBurger ( talk) 14:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
These were not any more invalid then any of your source that you hold on to like Avengers 305. And additional that you lied when you posted here your intent not to remove the sources: "We wouldn't even need to change the notes for most of them, as long as we continue to indicate the conflicting information." In removing them and self proclaiming the invalid, you are saying the writer of Captain America 349 is not a valid source. You are the one refusing to see the fact that Breevort indicated that he "research" the basis of your sources; there never intented to change what Gruenwald wrote. Spshu ( talk) 23:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Well said, Fortdj33. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I feel that splitting these articles into their own pages isn't good. They're just stubs and the lists are going to be getting any larger due to the reformation of a single Avengers team after Siege. Also, the current OHOTMU hardcovers lists both of these teams as official teams. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 20:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
I think that the New and Mighty Avengers sections should be merged back in. Before Dark Reign, the Marvel Handbooks listed the members of either the outlaw team and government team as "Avengers". With membership in either of those factions, they were included in the roster for "Avengers". Also in the comics, the members of each group refer to themselves as "Avengers". The only Avengers group that shouldn't be part of the bigger list are Osborn's Avengers. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 01:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I've updated some of the references in this article, for characters that used to be "questionable", because there are several books related to the original Avengers title, which list issue numbers agreeing on when each member joined. But there are not many references for issues of The West Coast Avengers, and I think that the issues where Firebird and Moon Knight joined need to be modified. Please help come to a consensus, by offering your opinion on the status of Firebird and Moon Knight, based on the following info:
I propose that the article be changed, to reflect that Moon Knight joined in West Coast Avengers vol. 2 #21 (June 1987), with a reference to his status in issue #33, and that Firebird joined in either West Coast Avengers vol. 2 #24 (Sept 1987) or West Coast Avengers Annual #2 (1987), maybe gaining reserve status in Avengers vol. 1 #305. What do you think? Fortdj33 ( talk) 04:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
If Spider-Man and Wolverine are on the cover of Avengers #1, they should be considered part of the team. If this is because there's a Spider-Man promo for New Avengers, it doesn't mean he can't be on both teams. Luke Cage will be in both New Avengers and Thunderbolts, so Spider-Man can be both on Avengers and New Avengers and in turn Wolverine can be put on the team as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
There is verification on Spider-Man though. John Romita Jr. confirmed he would be drawing Spider-Man in the book; I just need to find the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Best I could find: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=306021&highlight=John+Romita —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
We tend not to go by just cover, teaser or promotional images as they can often be unclear or misleading. We don't have a deadline and can afford to wait for the actual comics to be revealed or an interview where the creators discuss the new line-up. ( Emperor ( talk) 14:41, 3 March 2010 (UTC))
Now Spider-Man and Wolverine are also on the cover to issue 2. I should point out Ms. Marvel was added to the member list on the New Avengers Members page based on her being on the cover to New Avengers Vol. 2 #1. I thought we weren't supposed to speculate based on covers, but if she's added there, why can't Spider-Man and Wolverine be added to the regular Avengers list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 05:49, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Going back to Maria Hill, this is a different situation than Victoria Hand's relationship with the Dark Avengers. The Dark Avengers fell under the umbrella of H.A.M.M.E.R. of which Victoria was deputy director so she had some authority over the Dark Avengers but was not a part of the team herself. In Maria's case she is specificly appointed "team leader" of the Avengers by Steve Rogers. Also as seen in Dark Avengers #16, Victoria Hand keeps her position as Roger's number two. I guess only time will tell of Maria's actual role. -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 13:46, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyone else dislike the section that has been added for team rosters from the animated series and films? I'm wondering if it needs to be cleaned up, or removed altogether? Fortdj33 ( talk) 16:53, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't care for it either.
SlamBurger (
talk) 01:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
As a monitor of this article, I have strived to maintain the information here as accurately as possible. I have also provided numerous references to back up my edits. But, as regular readers of this talk page know, the user Spshu has constantly had issues with the information in this article, because it does not agree with his POV.
Unfortunately, every time he is proven wrong, he disappears for a couple months, and then returns to change everything that he doesn't agree with, even though that information has been maintained by other editors for months. In some cases, he even disregards certain references, claiming that they support his POV, instead of the information that is presented. His POV statements also end up in the notes for the characters that he doesn't think belong on the list...
I am asking the other editors of this page, to please help me maintain the integrity of this article, by once again pointing out the errors in Spshu's logic. Thank you in advance, for taking the time to read this statement, and for helping me to keep this article as accurate as possible. Fortdj33 ( talk) 19:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
That is something he has done quite often in the past. Waiting for things to quiet down and then coming in and making all the edits he thinks are appropriate. I haven't had as much time to dedicate to this page lately as I have had in the past and your vigilance is appreciated SlamBurger ( talk) 20:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Where should we put Captain Britain? In Age of Heroes #1 Braddock agrees to be part of the Avengers. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 03:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Marvel's official viewpoint of who is an Avenger is shown through the Official Handbooks. The New/Mighty rosters are both considered Avengers factions. The newest article in the Avengers Assemble Handbook has all the pre-Initiative New Avengers recruits as official members (Wolverine, Echo, etc.). All Initiative-Dark Reign era recruits such as Captain America (Barnes), Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, etc. are listed as honorary members. All the Mighty Avengers recruits such as Ares, Stature, Amadeus Cho, and Vision (Jonas) are listed as official members as well. By splitting New/Mighty members in their own articles, there is a big gap of nothing between 2004-2010 and makes it seem that New/Mighty members are not considered members. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 16:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
In its current format this information is buried throught the note sections of the article which makes its difficult for the average reader to quickly obtain. I propose that this information be distinguished in its own section while maintaing the characters recuritment history as currently detailed. Is this redudant? Maybe, but I feel the notablity of this information out wieghs its redudancy. Also I realize that Avengers memberhip is a revolving door and will require constant updating but this again show the need of a seperate section to see who is currently on the main team. Thoughts? -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 21:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
I like J Greb's idea but I understand that defining specific eras could prove to be difficult. Perhaps we can bold current members and make seperate tables for the main and affiliated teams.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:34, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
While the format of List of Doom Patrol members may work for that article, even that example uses bold to indicate current members. If there is a consensus to remove the bold for current members of this article (where another unregistered editor has just added it to New Avengers members), I am OK with that. But I don't think that the Avengers organization as a whole falls into "easy" breaks as indicated above. The Post-Heroes Return era by itself, would include almost every hero who had been an Avenger up until that time. In my opinion, this article should remain a chronological list of characters that have been Avengers, and the "history" of the Avengers would be better served by the Avengers (comics) article. Fortdj33 ( talk) 21:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I said that Jewel and Iron Fist are not Avengers but are in New Avengers, and Maria Hill is on the team because of Steve Rogers. -- 98.216.243.219 ( talk) 18:57, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
"Leader", "Handler", "Liaison"...Whatever their titles are, I still say that Maria Hill, Victoria Hand and Sharon Carter are not considered to be actual members of the Avengers, anymore than Jarvis, Henry Peter Gyrich, or any OTHER non-superhero person who has worked with the team. For now, those three women are listed in the Heroic Age section, until a definitive reference is produced that proves they are not actual members. Fortdj33 ( talk) 16:53, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
I saw the roster list had mistakenly cited Avengers 19 as the point where Swordsman joins the team (they actually turn him down in that issue), so I corrected it to issue 20 (when he tricks the group into letting him join), but I notice another user has repeatedly undone this edit, switching back to the incorrect 19 listing. The user cites older reference materials like Avengers Casebook, but older materials sometimes contain errors corrected in more recent reference works, as is the case here. For the actual status of Swordsman in Avengers 19-20, consult the original comics, or more recent reference works such as the OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 hardcover (2008), the Avengers Assemble handbook (2010) and the Avengers Spotlight one-shot (also 2010). All of the above clearly indicate that Swordsman joined in 20, not 19.
Sfmcquaid ( talk) 17:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I've got no objection to retaining some reference to the Swordsman's activity in 19. "Applied" would be a better word than "Infiltrated" regarding 19, though, because he doesn't succeed in infiltrating anything during issue 19; they reject him, and they fight him when he doesn't take the hint. He doesn't actually sneak his way into the group until the next issue. Sfmcquaid ( talk) 18:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I notice a lot of characters being added to the honorary section (Flux, Skaar, Prince of Orphans, Brother Voodoo, Shang-chi) some of whom have been listed as members before? Who is making these decisions? Based on what info? LobtsterJ ( talk) 14:33, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
hey as we know this article only include those members which are members of official team of avengers that is why "new avengers" members were not included after civil war. so now i want to ask is that why in marvel now section members of "new avengers" and "secret avengers" are listed??? because it has been said that "secret avengers" will be a s.h.i.e.l.d team and even members will have no knowledge that they are part of this covert team so this means this is not official avengers team. and now "new avengers" is also yet not said to be an official team as it has been said that this will be a night type book. so we should not include those members especially in this article. i'm removing those. -- Shoxee1214 ( talk) 11:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, what should be done in cases like this, where a link is piped away from an article that one might expect? Is it a violation of WP:EGG and if so what is the best way to handle it?-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
An IP editor has insisted on adding information to the Infiltrators section that I do not believe to be relevant to this list, so I am asking for any interested editors to weigh in. The issue is with two characters: Loki, and Superior Spider-Man.
The former definitely infiltrated the team in the pages of Mighty Avengers. The questions with Loki are: in what issue was he actually revealed to be an infiltrator, should there be any mention of him being offered formal membership (since he turned it down), and is he considered the same character that is currently affiliated with the Young Avengers?
With the current version of Spider-Man, it is clear that he is considered a member of the main Avengers team, despite the fact that no one knows it is Otto Octavius in Peter Parker's body. Does this mean that he is an infiltrator? Should the character even be listed separately at all, or should we just update the notes for Spider-Man in the UN Charter section?
Of course this is all arbitrary, but I think it's important that we come to a consensus, before including information in the article that could be misleading. Thoughts? Fortdj33 ( talk) 21:30, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I believe that Superior Spider-man should be listed under the infiltrator section, because he fits what I believe the criteria of that section to be: someone who joins the team masquerading as someone else. He is not a true member in any sense. LobtsterJ ( talk) 16:23, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
In List of X-Men Members article you can see that there is section for splinter teams like new mutants, x-force, x-factor and school students. I think it would be really great to include that kind of information in this article also because this is the main article for Avengers' members. so i am including that. let me know if anyone have better suggestion or if someone dont want me to then kindly first settle with me here instead of just removing or reverting. regards -- Shoxee1214 ( talk) 11:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Why aren't the Mighty Avengers Infinity recruits included on the main list? ie: White Tiger, Power Man II, Spectrum, etc? 50.134.188.210 ( talk) 22:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Read Avengers vol 1 1, and it's Pym who suggested teaming up, then Wasp, Iron Man, Hulk, then Thor followed. I keep trying to change it to this order, but someone keeps changing it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.86.63.195 ( talk) 23:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
I see my edit to the page has been undone, claiming the citation I listed is not a proper source. Has the person who made the edit bothered to click on the link, and actually see what the source says? Because it not only lists page and panel of the comic that proves Captain America doesn't have a middle name, but also SHOWS the panel in question: [3] Additionally, the Marvel handbooks list Captain America has having no middle name, putting Grant in with his aliases. 86.184.121.147 ( talk) 20:36, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
"the content doesn't show every last page" - no, it shows the relevant panel. You want the whole page, go read the comic it cites. For the purposes of this discussion though, only that panel is needed, because that panel clearly states Grant is not his middle name, and that he doesn't have a middle name Grant, which was the original contested point. "Where is any reference their to his "M." middle inital that he had for a while?" The onus should be on you finding evidence to prove the M middle initial, not for the panel to disprove it further than the already clear "I don't have a middle name." Especially given all you said was "If I remember it correctly, ... a middle name ... an "M" or "Grant" I do not recall." You wanted Grant included on the basis that you only thought it might have been his middle name, even though you also thought that middle name might begin with an M - and on that basis of uncorroborated vague recollection, you disparage an actual comic panel with a clear statement regarding Grant not being right, and handbook entries that also confirm no middle name. "so your not even going on full information either. So, you prefer to go on half researched information" - nope, unlike you, I have done my research, and, it seems, yours too. The M you vaguely recall comes from Captain America #328, when some government officials are discussing Captain America's back pay, and one of them refers to him as Steven M. Rogers. It is the only time the M is mentioned; it conflicts with Cap's own statement that he doesn't have a middle name and is used by someone other than Cap, so it would seem that the government man has it wrong, especially as Captain America #247 also notes that Steve Rogers' government records were altered to create a fake cover story for him. And in case you state that is original research and so not allowable, I'll point out that the handbooks don't list M as a middle name. They are the latest and most up-to-date Marvel document on the subject, and they only list him as Steven Rogers. 86.184.120.38 ( talk) 17:33, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Just a heads up to everyone that this page needs a bit of an update as of today. Today's Avengers Now! Handbook, the newest installment of Marvel's Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, sets the records straight regarding the Avengers membership status (or lack thereof) of an assortment of Avengers groups and individuals, including Luke Cage's Mighty Avengers organization (including Kaluu), Hank Pym's AI squad, SHIELD's current covert Secret Avengers squad, Black Ant and Otto Octavius, the Avengers Academy members granted "third grade" status, Fiona from Inhumanity: The Awakening #2, Sam Alexander, and Monica Chang, among others. I'll start making the changes when I get a chance, and I recommend that everyone go pick up the book and enjoy the first new handbook in a while. I'm hoping for a similar X-Men update in the coming months! DeadpoolRP ( talk) 12:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Just a couple of questions about this handbook (I live in a place where comic book shops don't import american comic books or handbooks):
Thanks for the answers Fortdj33, but if Sam Alexander is officially confirmed as a honorary member by the handbook why don't isn't he on the list?
It states he was offered membership but, declined. I haven't read the issue so... was he then given honorary membership or are we just assuming that being offered membership automatically bestows honorary status? 'Cause if it's the latter, there are other characters that have declined membership in the past. Cebr1979 ( talk) 14:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Just because Marvel has released quick previews of their post-Secret Wars titles, that doesn't mean this page should reflect those previews. Those changes aren't happening for at least three or four months still, and Wikipedia changes can't be based on covers for upcoming issues (which may change!), solicitation text (and the Marvel previews aren't even full solicits!), and so forth. This page should only reflect what has already happened, not our guesses/interpretation of previews, online news, etc. DeadpoolRP ( talk) 07:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me (specifically Spshu and Fortdj33) how Bucky, Jessica Jones, Dr. Strange, and Iron Fist "were not official Avengers until after the Heroic Age relaunches" because their time as New Avengers don't count even though we have a "New Avengers section" which includes characters who were New Avengers before the Heroic Age event and the team dynamic hadn't changed in between? Please and thanks. 'Cause either we should be including the newer group of members original join dates or we should be moving the older ones down... Cebr1979 ( talk) 22:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
The A-Force issues cited here as where they got Avengers membership say nothing about Avengers or Avengers membership. All-New All-Different Marvel Universe Handbook clarifies that they aren't under Singularity's profile. It does not have Avengers under group affiliation. 2607:FB90:B2E:2D0E:6AD6:C537:61E7:5CCF ( talk) 15:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
UTC)
Yes and you conveniently forgot the rest of the sentence which reads, "which includes three teams with Avengers in the name, plus A-Force, the mighty Ultimates, a bunch of villains stealing an old Avengers-related name, and the Squadron Supreme, who aren’t really Avengers at all. Notice how he makes qualifiers about the other teams but not A-Force. The author even clarifies this point in his blurb about the team. Besides there are many more sources from where this one comes. As for your other question settling A-Force as Avengers would answer that.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Could some kind soul simply count the total number of Avengers (past and present) and include that number in the lede? Kind of like when you click on a person's Wikipedia page, it gives their date of birth and then "(Age 67)" or whatever. Is there some kind of bot or routine that could do that?
I only came to this page to get a rough idea of how many Avengers there have been, throughout the publication's history, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who came here for just that little taste of information. Thanks for your consideration. ← Ben Culture ( talk) 21:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Should we add other versions eg. MCU? Spinosaurus75 (Dinosaur Fan) ( talk) 00:11, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
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Should Rocket be a member? Should Voyager be a real member and not just an impostor? john k ( talk) 04:11, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
My 5-year-old nephew was very angry about this page. “This is dumb. Why are there no pictures? How do I recognize them without pictures?!” He knows the pages can be edited, so he told me to add pictures, but I explained I’m not an Avengers expert, so I don’t know them to add pictures. So then he wanted me to tell someone so they would fix it. Please take this as feedback from the illiterate segment of Wikipedia users. AristosM ( talk) 23:42, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Hey, I was pretty shocked that no one thought about where or what certain members are now-- for instance, the Enter the Phoenix saga, where Echo ended up becoming the new host of the Phoenix Force. And Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr), Nova (Richard Rider) and Moondragon being current members of the Guardians of the Galaxy. All of this is as of 2021, and I made a little contribution with that. The only one I didn't modify is Venom on the Savage Avengers, because I don't know an awful lot about the King in Black storyline. If there's anyone that has read it, please modify it. IronKnight374 ( talk) 03:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Iron Man is bolded in the article but he is dead as shown in Avengers:Endgame. So, does he need to be unbolded or remain like so because he died as a member of the avengers? PrathuCoder ( talk) 14:42, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
This lists several people joining in Avengers Vol. 5 39, who are not in that issue, E.G. Magneto, Him, Spider-Girl, Black Cat.
I can find no reference of them joining during "Time runs out" or any other time. 72.85.25.238 ( talk) 19:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Some inclusion criteria for being in the main article isn't made clear - in three ways. 1) There is no reason given for what S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Secret Avengers aren't on this list. I'm assuming they're in a similar situation as the "Not officially sanctioned Avengers teams" section but they aren't there either. I think the new Avengers Inc. is in a similar spot as well. 2) Is there a reason that liaisons like Maria Hill (in Avengers Vol. 5), Monica Chang (in Avengers A.I.), and Agent 13 (in Secret Avengers Vol. 1) are not listed here? Are they not considered full members, and if that's the case, is there a reference for that? And 3) Why is the Phoenix Force listed as a separate member because it possessed Maya Lopez when she rejoined the team, but the Venom symbiote and the Spirit of Vengeance aren't listed separately? Personally I think it would make more sense if the Phoenix Force is only mentioned under Maya Lopez's entry and not separately. 39hints ( talk) 17:01, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
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What does the bold font mean? There's no legend or key. Matti Nuortio, Oulu, Finland ( talk) 15:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
Need to add Criti Noll-as-Hank Pym, as well as the skrull posing as Mockingbird with the west coast branch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.87.189.226 ( talk) 00:26, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Where's Jarvis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.204.90.172 ( talk) 13:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Considering that there has been such debate over D-man's status in the past, I would appreciate it if people did not edit and remove references that the "other side" are citing. Even though I have shown that a number of Spshu's "Never Joined" references are irrelevant or just plain wrong, I have left them there so as to not create an "edit war." The most recent incidence of this was particularly nonsensical, as the issue being moved from "Joined Sources" to "Never Joined Sources" was Captain America #349, the issue in which Demolition Man is offered and accepts membership into the Avengers. LobtsterJ ( talk) 16:58, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I vote for putting it back solely in the 'joined sources', but honestly most of the 'sources' Spshu uses to show D-Man isn't an official member make little rational sense. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I still get a kick out of you insisting Tom Breevort isn't credible. The guy who has edited the Avengers books for the past 15 years. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Ultrabasurero, we've been arguing these points with Spshu for literally years at this point. He doesn't seem to look at sources and make a decision based on what the sources show him, he has an idea in his head that he absolutely cannot be wrong and then tries to jam the sources into his worldview whether or not they actually fit(they usually don't, as evidenced by him using sources that actually show D-Man as a member as a source against it, the encyclopedia not specifically listing D-Man as an Avengers member is a good example of this). SlamBurger ( talk) 20:47, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Avengers Assemble, which is one of those "profile on important people" books lists Demolition Man as an inactive member. This is current continuity, and it flat out lists him. He's a member, end of story. Darquis ( talk) 11:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Is anyone else interested in eliminating the Questionable section, and integrating those characters back into the original team section? I know there are some editors of this article, who adamantly argue about the status of certain characters with The Avengers, but at this point were talking about 8 characters here! (Hellcat, Two-Gun Kid, Jocasta, Thing, D-Man, Sandman, Rage, Machine Man). Clearly all of them have had some status with The Avengers at one time or another, and there is just the question of when they might have been given that status. We wouldn't even need to change the notes for most of them, as long as we continue to indicate the conflicting information. I just don't think that there needs to be a separate section for these characters. What do you think? Fortdj33 ( talk) 14:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I would be for it. As long as the notes continue to reflect that there are differing opinions. If we went through every reference for every Avenger, I'm sure we could find omissions of characters the people consider 100% Avengers no questions. No need to keep these 8 separate because they are more contested than others LobtsterJ ( talk) 14:24, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. I don't like the 'questionable' section and feel it serves no real purpose. Put them back into the regular listings with notes as needed. SlamBurger ( talk) 17:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I love it when actual progress on making this page look and read better gets stalled. SlamBurger ( talk) 16:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Spshu, please don't remove the references to Avengers 305, as it makes clear the status of quite a few Avengers, whatever your personal bias against it is. SlamBurger ( talk) 14:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
These were not any more invalid then any of your source that you hold on to like Avengers 305. And additional that you lied when you posted here your intent not to remove the sources: "We wouldn't even need to change the notes for most of them, as long as we continue to indicate the conflicting information." In removing them and self proclaiming the invalid, you are saying the writer of Captain America 349 is not a valid source. You are the one refusing to see the fact that Breevort indicated that he "research" the basis of your sources; there never intented to change what Gruenwald wrote. Spshu ( talk) 23:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Well said, Fortdj33. SlamBurger ( talk) 02:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
I feel that splitting these articles into their own pages isn't good. They're just stubs and the lists are going to be getting any larger due to the reformation of a single Avengers team after Siege. Also, the current OHOTMU hardcovers lists both of these teams as official teams. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 20:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
I think that the New and Mighty Avengers sections should be merged back in. Before Dark Reign, the Marvel Handbooks listed the members of either the outlaw team and government team as "Avengers". With membership in either of those factions, they were included in the roster for "Avengers". Also in the comics, the members of each group refer to themselves as "Avengers". The only Avengers group that shouldn't be part of the bigger list are Osborn's Avengers. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 01:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
I've updated some of the references in this article, for characters that used to be "questionable", because there are several books related to the original Avengers title, which list issue numbers agreeing on when each member joined. But there are not many references for issues of The West Coast Avengers, and I think that the issues where Firebird and Moon Knight joined need to be modified. Please help come to a consensus, by offering your opinion on the status of Firebird and Moon Knight, based on the following info:
I propose that the article be changed, to reflect that Moon Knight joined in West Coast Avengers vol. 2 #21 (June 1987), with a reference to his status in issue #33, and that Firebird joined in either West Coast Avengers vol. 2 #24 (Sept 1987) or West Coast Avengers Annual #2 (1987), maybe gaining reserve status in Avengers vol. 1 #305. What do you think? Fortdj33 ( talk) 04:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
If Spider-Man and Wolverine are on the cover of Avengers #1, they should be considered part of the team. If this is because there's a Spider-Man promo for New Avengers, it doesn't mean he can't be on both teams. Luke Cage will be in both New Avengers and Thunderbolts, so Spider-Man can be both on Avengers and New Avengers and in turn Wolverine can be put on the team as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
There is verification on Spider-Man though. John Romita Jr. confirmed he would be drawing Spider-Man in the book; I just need to find the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Best I could find: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=306021&highlight=John+Romita —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 04:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
We tend not to go by just cover, teaser or promotional images as they can often be unclear or misleading. We don't have a deadline and can afford to wait for the actual comics to be revealed or an interview where the creators discuss the new line-up. ( Emperor ( talk) 14:41, 3 March 2010 (UTC))
Now Spider-Man and Wolverine are also on the cover to issue 2. I should point out Ms. Marvel was added to the member list on the New Avengers Members page based on her being on the cover to New Avengers Vol. 2 #1. I thought we weren't supposed to speculate based on covers, but if she's added there, why can't Spider-Man and Wolverine be added to the regular Avengers list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.116.4.185 ( talk) 05:49, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Going back to Maria Hill, this is a different situation than Victoria Hand's relationship with the Dark Avengers. The Dark Avengers fell under the umbrella of H.A.M.M.E.R. of which Victoria was deputy director so she had some authority over the Dark Avengers but was not a part of the team herself. In Maria's case she is specificly appointed "team leader" of the Avengers by Steve Rogers. Also as seen in Dark Avengers #16, Victoria Hand keeps her position as Roger's number two. I guess only time will tell of Maria's actual role. -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 13:46, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyone else dislike the section that has been added for team rosters from the animated series and films? I'm wondering if it needs to be cleaned up, or removed altogether? Fortdj33 ( talk) 16:53, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't care for it either.
SlamBurger (
talk) 01:11, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
As a monitor of this article, I have strived to maintain the information here as accurately as possible. I have also provided numerous references to back up my edits. But, as regular readers of this talk page know, the user Spshu has constantly had issues with the information in this article, because it does not agree with his POV.
Unfortunately, every time he is proven wrong, he disappears for a couple months, and then returns to change everything that he doesn't agree with, even though that information has been maintained by other editors for months. In some cases, he even disregards certain references, claiming that they support his POV, instead of the information that is presented. His POV statements also end up in the notes for the characters that he doesn't think belong on the list...
I am asking the other editors of this page, to please help me maintain the integrity of this article, by once again pointing out the errors in Spshu's logic. Thank you in advance, for taking the time to read this statement, and for helping me to keep this article as accurate as possible. Fortdj33 ( talk) 19:02, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
That is something he has done quite often in the past. Waiting for things to quiet down and then coming in and making all the edits he thinks are appropriate. I haven't had as much time to dedicate to this page lately as I have had in the past and your vigilance is appreciated SlamBurger ( talk) 20:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Where should we put Captain Britain? In Age of Heroes #1 Braddock agrees to be part of the Avengers. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 03:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Marvel's official viewpoint of who is an Avenger is shown through the Official Handbooks. The New/Mighty rosters are both considered Avengers factions. The newest article in the Avengers Assemble Handbook has all the pre-Initiative New Avengers recruits as official members (Wolverine, Echo, etc.). All Initiative-Dark Reign era recruits such as Captain America (Barnes), Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, etc. are listed as honorary members. All the Mighty Avengers recruits such as Ares, Stature, Amadeus Cho, and Vision (Jonas) are listed as official members as well. By splitting New/Mighty members in their own articles, there is a big gap of nothing between 2004-2010 and makes it seem that New/Mighty members are not considered members. Ultrabasurero ( talk) 16:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
In its current format this information is buried throught the note sections of the article which makes its difficult for the average reader to quickly obtain. I propose that this information be distinguished in its own section while maintaing the characters recuritment history as currently detailed. Is this redudant? Maybe, but I feel the notablity of this information out wieghs its redudancy. Also I realize that Avengers memberhip is a revolving door and will require constant updating but this again show the need of a seperate section to see who is currently on the main team. Thoughts? -- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 21:01, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
I like J Greb's idea but I understand that defining specific eras could prove to be difficult. Perhaps we can bold current members and make seperate tables for the main and affiliated teams.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:34, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
While the format of List of Doom Patrol members may work for that article, even that example uses bold to indicate current members. If there is a consensus to remove the bold for current members of this article (where another unregistered editor has just added it to New Avengers members), I am OK with that. But I don't think that the Avengers organization as a whole falls into "easy" breaks as indicated above. The Post-Heroes Return era by itself, would include almost every hero who had been an Avenger up until that time. In my opinion, this article should remain a chronological list of characters that have been Avengers, and the "history" of the Avengers would be better served by the Avengers (comics) article. Fortdj33 ( talk) 21:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I said that Jewel and Iron Fist are not Avengers but are in New Avengers, and Maria Hill is on the team because of Steve Rogers. -- 98.216.243.219 ( talk) 18:57, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
"Leader", "Handler", "Liaison"...Whatever their titles are, I still say that Maria Hill, Victoria Hand and Sharon Carter are not considered to be actual members of the Avengers, anymore than Jarvis, Henry Peter Gyrich, or any OTHER non-superhero person who has worked with the team. For now, those three women are listed in the Heroic Age section, until a definitive reference is produced that proves they are not actual members. Fortdj33 ( talk) 16:53, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
I saw the roster list had mistakenly cited Avengers 19 as the point where Swordsman joins the team (they actually turn him down in that issue), so I corrected it to issue 20 (when he tricks the group into letting him join), but I notice another user has repeatedly undone this edit, switching back to the incorrect 19 listing. The user cites older reference materials like Avengers Casebook, but older materials sometimes contain errors corrected in more recent reference works, as is the case here. For the actual status of Swordsman in Avengers 19-20, consult the original comics, or more recent reference works such as the OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 hardcover (2008), the Avengers Assemble handbook (2010) and the Avengers Spotlight one-shot (also 2010). All of the above clearly indicate that Swordsman joined in 20, not 19.
Sfmcquaid ( talk) 17:59, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I've got no objection to retaining some reference to the Swordsman's activity in 19. "Applied" would be a better word than "Infiltrated" regarding 19, though, because he doesn't succeed in infiltrating anything during issue 19; they reject him, and they fight him when he doesn't take the hint. He doesn't actually sneak his way into the group until the next issue. Sfmcquaid ( talk) 18:29, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I notice a lot of characters being added to the honorary section (Flux, Skaar, Prince of Orphans, Brother Voodoo, Shang-chi) some of whom have been listed as members before? Who is making these decisions? Based on what info? LobtsterJ ( talk) 14:33, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
hey as we know this article only include those members which are members of official team of avengers that is why "new avengers" members were not included after civil war. so now i want to ask is that why in marvel now section members of "new avengers" and "secret avengers" are listed??? because it has been said that "secret avengers" will be a s.h.i.e.l.d team and even members will have no knowledge that they are part of this covert team so this means this is not official avengers team. and now "new avengers" is also yet not said to be an official team as it has been said that this will be a night type book. so we should not include those members especially in this article. i'm removing those. -- Shoxee1214 ( talk) 11:56, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, what should be done in cases like this, where a link is piped away from an article that one might expect? Is it a violation of WP:EGG and if so what is the best way to handle it?-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
An IP editor has insisted on adding information to the Infiltrators section that I do not believe to be relevant to this list, so I am asking for any interested editors to weigh in. The issue is with two characters: Loki, and Superior Spider-Man.
The former definitely infiltrated the team in the pages of Mighty Avengers. The questions with Loki are: in what issue was he actually revealed to be an infiltrator, should there be any mention of him being offered formal membership (since he turned it down), and is he considered the same character that is currently affiliated with the Young Avengers?
With the current version of Spider-Man, it is clear that he is considered a member of the main Avengers team, despite the fact that no one knows it is Otto Octavius in Peter Parker's body. Does this mean that he is an infiltrator? Should the character even be listed separately at all, or should we just update the notes for Spider-Man in the UN Charter section?
Of course this is all arbitrary, but I think it's important that we come to a consensus, before including information in the article that could be misleading. Thoughts? Fortdj33 ( talk) 21:30, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I believe that Superior Spider-man should be listed under the infiltrator section, because he fits what I believe the criteria of that section to be: someone who joins the team masquerading as someone else. He is not a true member in any sense. LobtsterJ ( talk) 16:23, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
In List of X-Men Members article you can see that there is section for splinter teams like new mutants, x-force, x-factor and school students. I think it would be really great to include that kind of information in this article also because this is the main article for Avengers' members. so i am including that. let me know if anyone have better suggestion or if someone dont want me to then kindly first settle with me here instead of just removing or reverting. regards -- Shoxee1214 ( talk) 11:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Why aren't the Mighty Avengers Infinity recruits included on the main list? ie: White Tiger, Power Man II, Spectrum, etc? 50.134.188.210 ( talk) 22:43, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Read Avengers vol 1 1, and it's Pym who suggested teaming up, then Wasp, Iron Man, Hulk, then Thor followed. I keep trying to change it to this order, but someone keeps changing it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.86.63.195 ( talk) 23:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
I see my edit to the page has been undone, claiming the citation I listed is not a proper source. Has the person who made the edit bothered to click on the link, and actually see what the source says? Because it not only lists page and panel of the comic that proves Captain America doesn't have a middle name, but also SHOWS the panel in question: [3] Additionally, the Marvel handbooks list Captain America has having no middle name, putting Grant in with his aliases. 86.184.121.147 ( talk) 20:36, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
"the content doesn't show every last page" - no, it shows the relevant panel. You want the whole page, go read the comic it cites. For the purposes of this discussion though, only that panel is needed, because that panel clearly states Grant is not his middle name, and that he doesn't have a middle name Grant, which was the original contested point. "Where is any reference their to his "M." middle inital that he had for a while?" The onus should be on you finding evidence to prove the M middle initial, not for the panel to disprove it further than the already clear "I don't have a middle name." Especially given all you said was "If I remember it correctly, ... a middle name ... an "M" or "Grant" I do not recall." You wanted Grant included on the basis that you only thought it might have been his middle name, even though you also thought that middle name might begin with an M - and on that basis of uncorroborated vague recollection, you disparage an actual comic panel with a clear statement regarding Grant not being right, and handbook entries that also confirm no middle name. "so your not even going on full information either. So, you prefer to go on half researched information" - nope, unlike you, I have done my research, and, it seems, yours too. The M you vaguely recall comes from Captain America #328, when some government officials are discussing Captain America's back pay, and one of them refers to him as Steven M. Rogers. It is the only time the M is mentioned; it conflicts with Cap's own statement that he doesn't have a middle name and is used by someone other than Cap, so it would seem that the government man has it wrong, especially as Captain America #247 also notes that Steve Rogers' government records were altered to create a fake cover story for him. And in case you state that is original research and so not allowable, I'll point out that the handbooks don't list M as a middle name. They are the latest and most up-to-date Marvel document on the subject, and they only list him as Steven Rogers. 86.184.120.38 ( talk) 17:33, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Just a heads up to everyone that this page needs a bit of an update as of today. Today's Avengers Now! Handbook, the newest installment of Marvel's Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, sets the records straight regarding the Avengers membership status (or lack thereof) of an assortment of Avengers groups and individuals, including Luke Cage's Mighty Avengers organization (including Kaluu), Hank Pym's AI squad, SHIELD's current covert Secret Avengers squad, Black Ant and Otto Octavius, the Avengers Academy members granted "third grade" status, Fiona from Inhumanity: The Awakening #2, Sam Alexander, and Monica Chang, among others. I'll start making the changes when I get a chance, and I recommend that everyone go pick up the book and enjoy the first new handbook in a while. I'm hoping for a similar X-Men update in the coming months! DeadpoolRP ( talk) 12:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Just a couple of questions about this handbook (I live in a place where comic book shops don't import american comic books or handbooks):
Thanks for the answers Fortdj33, but if Sam Alexander is officially confirmed as a honorary member by the handbook why don't isn't he on the list?
It states he was offered membership but, declined. I haven't read the issue so... was he then given honorary membership or are we just assuming that being offered membership automatically bestows honorary status? 'Cause if it's the latter, there are other characters that have declined membership in the past. Cebr1979 ( talk) 14:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Just because Marvel has released quick previews of their post-Secret Wars titles, that doesn't mean this page should reflect those previews. Those changes aren't happening for at least three or four months still, and Wikipedia changes can't be based on covers for upcoming issues (which may change!), solicitation text (and the Marvel previews aren't even full solicits!), and so forth. This page should only reflect what has already happened, not our guesses/interpretation of previews, online news, etc. DeadpoolRP ( talk) 07:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me (specifically Spshu and Fortdj33) how Bucky, Jessica Jones, Dr. Strange, and Iron Fist "were not official Avengers until after the Heroic Age relaunches" because their time as New Avengers don't count even though we have a "New Avengers section" which includes characters who were New Avengers before the Heroic Age event and the team dynamic hadn't changed in between? Please and thanks. 'Cause either we should be including the newer group of members original join dates or we should be moving the older ones down... Cebr1979 ( talk) 22:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
The A-Force issues cited here as where they got Avengers membership say nothing about Avengers or Avengers membership. All-New All-Different Marvel Universe Handbook clarifies that they aren't under Singularity's profile. It does not have Avengers under group affiliation. 2607:FB90:B2E:2D0E:6AD6:C537:61E7:5CCF ( talk) 15:01, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
UTC)
Yes and you conveniently forgot the rest of the sentence which reads, "which includes three teams with Avengers in the name, plus A-Force, the mighty Ultimates, a bunch of villains stealing an old Avengers-related name, and the Squadron Supreme, who aren’t really Avengers at all. Notice how he makes qualifiers about the other teams but not A-Force. The author even clarifies this point in his blurb about the team. Besides there are many more sources from where this one comes. As for your other question settling A-Force as Avengers would answer that.-- TriiipleThreat ( talk) 16:48, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
Could some kind soul simply count the total number of Avengers (past and present) and include that number in the lede? Kind of like when you click on a person's Wikipedia page, it gives their date of birth and then "(Age 67)" or whatever. Is there some kind of bot or routine that could do that?
I only came to this page to get a rough idea of how many Avengers there have been, throughout the publication's history, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who came here for just that little taste of information. Thanks for your consideration. ← Ben Culture ( talk) 21:01, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Should we add other versions eg. MCU? Spinosaurus75 (Dinosaur Fan) ( talk) 00:11, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
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Should Rocket be a member? Should Voyager be a real member and not just an impostor? john k ( talk) 04:11, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
My 5-year-old nephew was very angry about this page. “This is dumb. Why are there no pictures? How do I recognize them without pictures?!” He knows the pages can be edited, so he told me to add pictures, but I explained I’m not an Avengers expert, so I don’t know them to add pictures. So then he wanted me to tell someone so they would fix it. Please take this as feedback from the illiterate segment of Wikipedia users. AristosM ( talk) 23:42, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Hey, I was pretty shocked that no one thought about where or what certain members are now-- for instance, the Enter the Phoenix saga, where Echo ended up becoming the new host of the Phoenix Force. And Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr), Nova (Richard Rider) and Moondragon being current members of the Guardians of the Galaxy. All of this is as of 2021, and I made a little contribution with that. The only one I didn't modify is Venom on the Savage Avengers, because I don't know an awful lot about the King in Black storyline. If there's anyone that has read it, please modify it. IronKnight374 ( talk) 03:50, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Iron Man is bolded in the article but he is dead as shown in Avengers:Endgame. So, does he need to be unbolded or remain like so because he died as a member of the avengers? PrathuCoder ( talk) 14:42, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
This lists several people joining in Avengers Vol. 5 39, who are not in that issue, E.G. Magneto, Him, Spider-Girl, Black Cat.
I can find no reference of them joining during "Time runs out" or any other time. 72.85.25.238 ( talk) 19:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Some inclusion criteria for being in the main article isn't made clear - in three ways. 1) There is no reason given for what S.H.I.E.L.D.'s Secret Avengers aren't on this list. I'm assuming they're in a similar situation as the "Not officially sanctioned Avengers teams" section but they aren't there either. I think the new Avengers Inc. is in a similar spot as well. 2) Is there a reason that liaisons like Maria Hill (in Avengers Vol. 5), Monica Chang (in Avengers A.I.), and Agent 13 (in Secret Avengers Vol. 1) are not listed here? Are they not considered full members, and if that's the case, is there a reference for that? And 3) Why is the Phoenix Force listed as a separate member because it possessed Maya Lopez when she rejoined the team, but the Venom symbiote and the Spirit of Vengeance aren't listed separately? Personally I think it would make more sense if the Phoenix Force is only mentioned under Maya Lopez's entry and not separately. 39hints ( talk) 17:01, 17 January 2024 (UTC)