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Using the phrase "...originating in..." is misleading, as all bees originated in Africa, and migrated out from there! I think that this phrase should be replaced with the word "...of..." so as to read "Subspecies of Europe". Also agree with the below poster, will try to get a better image. Bibby ( talk) 13:46, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Why using a foto of a bee with a parasite (varroa destructor | /info/en/?search=Varroa_destructor) on it? This must be a joke... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.115.57.156 ( talk) 09:28, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
The sentence "The hybrid populations of A. m. mellifera x A. m. ligustica, found in North America and Western Europe, have the reputation of stinging people (and other creatures) for no good reason. The near-extinct "pure" A. m. mellifera is not considered randomly aggressive" Apart from the fact that there are no citations to support that this AMM x AML cross is any more aggressive than any other mixture of bee sub-species (except for Africanized bees), the statement goes on to say that a "near-extinct... etc." if it's near-extinct then there would be little evidence of it's characteristics, meaning no solid conclusions can be made! Finally animals, especially bees, are not "randomly aggressive" they are protecting their food, home, etc. from a percieved threat. This whole statement is so flawed it should be deleted. Is123Biblio ( talk) 21:09, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
This has been placed in the wrong section "Apis mellifera caucasia - classified by Pollmann, 1889" it should be in the "Subspecies originating in Europe" as the Caucasian mountains in Georgia are in Europe! Bibby ( talk) 13:42, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
This list has a variety of issues.
1. It lists 31 subspecies. Western honey bee points here and it lists 29.
2. The "Africanized" bee is a hybrid and not a subspecies. It should not be listed here.
3. The Apis mellifera caucasia is originary of Georgia so it should be listed under the subspecies of Asia.
4. What happened to the Apis mellifera madaros? It was somewhere on Wikipedia and it seems to have disappeared.
5. According to a Ph.D. in entomology from the University of Florida who is an expert in honey bee subspecies there is no literature in the English language for the Apis mellifera taurica so it's not fully recognized as a subspecies.
6. If the Apis mellifera sinisxinyuan is is found in Urumqi and the Apis mellifera pomonella is found in the Tien Shan Mountains (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Xinjiang) then the Apis mellifera pomonella cannot be described as the bee which "has a range that is the farthest east known". It just doesn't make any sense.
ICE77 ( talk) 07:22, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
1. This article lists 31 subspecies but the Western honey bee article continues to list 29.
2. The "Africanized" honey bee is not listed with a bullet but it's mentioned under the Africa section. That bee is not a subspecies but a hybrid. It should not be listed or mentioned here. This page lists subspecies and not hybrids. If Africanized is listed then we might as well list Buckfast and all the other bees. It's out of scope and unnecessary.
3. The caucasia honey bee is located in Caucasus. Caucasus is located in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Russia. None of those countries are European countries. They are all in Asia. The caucasia honey bee should be listed under Asia.
4. I recall seeing a honey bee subspecies named "madaros" but it must have been unsourced because it disappeared. I cannot find it. I agree it is not a subspecies and it was probably sombebody's fabrication.
5. After reading Engel's article on taxonomy from 1999 (The taxonomy of recent and fossil honey bees) I must agree taurica is a subspecies (I must disagree with the Ph.D. in entomology from the University of Florida who told me the taurica is not fully recognized).
7. Yesterday I added a "citation needed" for each subspecies. I see most entries now have a source. Carnica, cypria, ligustica, mellifera, intermissa, sahariensis and anatoliaca still don't have citations.
ICE77 ( talk) 05:09, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
References 7 and 10 need to be merged with Reference 3. Malcolmlucascollins ( talk) 05:23, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm planning on basically re-formatting and re-arranging the lists on this page, this source [1] is the most up to date comprehensive attempt to make sense of the Apis mellifera subspecies muddle based on modern DNA analysis, the source is by far the best I've seen; Engels source should still be kept as it can give additional info. but the "A revision of subspecies structure of western honey bee Apis mellifera" should be what we're working with going forward.
I'll also get Wiki pages started for those subspecies that presently don't have one, bear with me over the next couple of weeks for me to do this. Bibby ( talk) 23:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
There is a map in Commons, used on the Greek version of this page File:EU_Apis_Mellifera_L_Map.svg
Anyone want to add it? Big Blue Cray(fish) Twins ( talk) 21:37, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Just noticed that the Apis mellifera ruttneri is placed in the Section "Subspecies of the Middle East and Asia", when Malta and it's islands are geographically Africa (African continental shelf, therefore technically part of Africa, not geographic Europe), therefore I propose moving it to the Section "Subspecies of Africa" (also I think it is of the 'A' African Lineage).
Also the Apis mellifera cypria is in the Section "Subspecies of Europe" whenever Cyprus is geographically part of Asia and the bee is genetically more closely related to the Apis mellifera of the Middle East, belonging to the 'O' (near) Orient Lineage, therefore I propose moving it to the Section "Subspecies of the Middle East and Asia".
I'll go ahead and change them, assuming there's no objections, yeh I'm being pedantic, but isn't that what makes Wiki so great! Bibby ( talk) 22:45, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Using the phrase "...originating in..." is misleading, as all bees originated in Africa, and migrated out from there! I think that this phrase should be replaced with the word "...of..." so as to read "Subspecies of Europe". Also agree with the below poster, will try to get a better image. Bibby ( talk) 13:46, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Why using a foto of a bee with a parasite (varroa destructor | /info/en/?search=Varroa_destructor) on it? This must be a joke... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.115.57.156 ( talk) 09:28, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
The sentence "The hybrid populations of A. m. mellifera x A. m. ligustica, found in North America and Western Europe, have the reputation of stinging people (and other creatures) for no good reason. The near-extinct "pure" A. m. mellifera is not considered randomly aggressive" Apart from the fact that there are no citations to support that this AMM x AML cross is any more aggressive than any other mixture of bee sub-species (except for Africanized bees), the statement goes on to say that a "near-extinct... etc." if it's near-extinct then there would be little evidence of it's characteristics, meaning no solid conclusions can be made! Finally animals, especially bees, are not "randomly aggressive" they are protecting their food, home, etc. from a percieved threat. This whole statement is so flawed it should be deleted. Is123Biblio ( talk) 21:09, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
This has been placed in the wrong section "Apis mellifera caucasia - classified by Pollmann, 1889" it should be in the "Subspecies originating in Europe" as the Caucasian mountains in Georgia are in Europe! Bibby ( talk) 13:42, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
This list has a variety of issues.
1. It lists 31 subspecies. Western honey bee points here and it lists 29.
2. The "Africanized" bee is a hybrid and not a subspecies. It should not be listed here.
3. The Apis mellifera caucasia is originary of Georgia so it should be listed under the subspecies of Asia.
4. What happened to the Apis mellifera madaros? It was somewhere on Wikipedia and it seems to have disappeared.
5. According to a Ph.D. in entomology from the University of Florida who is an expert in honey bee subspecies there is no literature in the English language for the Apis mellifera taurica so it's not fully recognized as a subspecies.
6. If the Apis mellifera sinisxinyuan is is found in Urumqi and the Apis mellifera pomonella is found in the Tien Shan Mountains (Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Xinjiang) then the Apis mellifera pomonella cannot be described as the bee which "has a range that is the farthest east known". It just doesn't make any sense.
ICE77 ( talk) 07:22, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
1. This article lists 31 subspecies but the Western honey bee article continues to list 29.
2. The "Africanized" honey bee is not listed with a bullet but it's mentioned under the Africa section. That bee is not a subspecies but a hybrid. It should not be listed or mentioned here. This page lists subspecies and not hybrids. If Africanized is listed then we might as well list Buckfast and all the other bees. It's out of scope and unnecessary.
3. The caucasia honey bee is located in Caucasus. Caucasus is located in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Russia. None of those countries are European countries. They are all in Asia. The caucasia honey bee should be listed under Asia.
4. I recall seeing a honey bee subspecies named "madaros" but it must have been unsourced because it disappeared. I cannot find it. I agree it is not a subspecies and it was probably sombebody's fabrication.
5. After reading Engel's article on taxonomy from 1999 (The taxonomy of recent and fossil honey bees) I must agree taurica is a subspecies (I must disagree with the Ph.D. in entomology from the University of Florida who told me the taurica is not fully recognized).
7. Yesterday I added a "citation needed" for each subspecies. I see most entries now have a source. Carnica, cypria, ligustica, mellifera, intermissa, sahariensis and anatoliaca still don't have citations.
ICE77 ( talk) 05:09, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
References 7 and 10 need to be merged with Reference 3. Malcolmlucascollins ( talk) 05:23, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm planning on basically re-formatting and re-arranging the lists on this page, this source [1] is the most up to date comprehensive attempt to make sense of the Apis mellifera subspecies muddle based on modern DNA analysis, the source is by far the best I've seen; Engels source should still be kept as it can give additional info. but the "A revision of subspecies structure of western honey bee Apis mellifera" should be what we're working with going forward.
I'll also get Wiki pages started for those subspecies that presently don't have one, bear with me over the next couple of weeks for me to do this. Bibby ( talk) 23:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link) CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
There is a map in Commons, used on the Greek version of this page File:EU_Apis_Mellifera_L_Map.svg
Anyone want to add it? Big Blue Cray(fish) Twins ( talk) 21:37, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Just noticed that the Apis mellifera ruttneri is placed in the Section "Subspecies of the Middle East and Asia", when Malta and it's islands are geographically Africa (African continental shelf, therefore technically part of Africa, not geographic Europe), therefore I propose moving it to the Section "Subspecies of Africa" (also I think it is of the 'A' African Lineage).
Also the Apis mellifera cypria is in the Section "Subspecies of Europe" whenever Cyprus is geographically part of Asia and the bee is genetically more closely related to the Apis mellifera of the Middle East, belonging to the 'O' (near) Orient Lineage, therefore I propose moving it to the Section "Subspecies of the Middle East and Asia".
I'll go ahead and change them, assuming there's no objections, yeh I'm being pedantic, but isn't that what makes Wiki so great! Bibby ( talk) 22:45, 30 March 2024 (UTC)