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I am removing the "Personal Reflection" label - I have updated the article to make it more objective and descriptive. I will try and address other issues in due course. Abt21 ( talk) 10:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
"Cleanup" tag: I'd like to think that I did a reasonable job of cleaning this page already. Unless anyone objects I'll remove this tag in 2 weeks or so. Abt21 ( talk) 10:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Citations/original research: part of the description I have written comes from my own experience (e.g. what sorts of conditions are seen). Can anyone give an example of the sorts of citations that would be needed to address this? Abt21 ( talk) 10:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
First point - these two books (Psychosomatic Medicine and A Handbook of Elementary Psychobiology and Psychiatry) are very important points in the field. I would recommend that you do a simple google search to find other people's comments on these books. If you want me to reference somebody saying these books are important in a peer reviewed source I will be most happy to do so. It just means for every important text I will be putting two reference instead of one. I have put a number of references to back up points e.g. german liaison psychiatry The second point - i'm just looking at your reference about this page requiring an expert on the subject. Can you just say a little bit more about your justification for this statement. Are you making a statement about me. Third point - why are you removing the structure of this article. The structure of having the history of the field then leading onto contemporary practice seems to me to be eminently sensible and yet your edit to remove this structure seems to me to make it more like an essay than an encyclopedic reference. Fourth point - if you look at some of the featured articles on wikipedia, you'll find that they do actually reference important books on the subject. This actually makes it easy for people to locate these books, purchase them and further their knowledge etc Fifth point - Dividing up contemporary liaison psychiatry into different geographical locations is important for the global audience that Wikipedia receives Justinmarley ( talk) 11:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I am going to create a section called contemporary liaison psychiatry. Does anyone have any objections to this. If not I will proceed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 11:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Justifications for having a section on Contemporary Liaison Psychiatry
An alternative to contemporary is current practice Your point that contemporary or current practice is subjective is an unusual point and is a philosophical point rather than one specific to this article. If we take something with which you are familiar - HTML - we see that it has the following sections
origins current flavours of HTML
Surely if you argue that history and contemporary practice are subjective, then you should also make the relevant changes to this article. I would mean contemporary practice to mean in the last few decades which is sufficiently long to allow service changes to be implemented —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I've checked the link out that you've pointed to. If you read it closely you'll find that it doesn't actually refer to services/fields but rather to syndromes. With regards to the other points in the guide, i have been compliant with these points. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
Firstly i would recommend that you look at the featured article on the history of biology. This contains a very specific sentence about a book written by Morgan about Mendelian heredity. This is an explicit example of an article which is recognised for its quality and which contains a reference to a book without referring to specific parts of the book. This contradicts your opinion that referencing books without alluding to their content is out of keeping with Wikipedia style. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
The articles you have referred me to are about illnesses e.g. schizophrenia. Liaison Psychiatry is about a field/discipline/service and as such has a number of qualities that are distinct from an illness. It is necessarily about how people think about illnesses, about services being provided, about systems being put in place and about identifying what has caused changes in the field. The analysis must as a necessity occur on a number of different levels. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I don't quite understand why you say this field is of low importance. Are you saying that treating people with a mental illness in a hospital setting isn't important. Having a big label saying that its not important certainly seems to be saying that Justinmarley ( talk) 12:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
There is no reason from the Wikipedia guidance why current practice should not be included as a separate section. Your argument seems to be that it is subjective. I do not think that this is a valid argument. I think we clearly need an arbiter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 12:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Justinmarley ( talk) 12:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
AnmaFinotera asked WP:MED to join in here. So we have OR, edit warring and sockpuppetry. I think much of this has to do with the tone expected from an encyclopedia article, and how to support this with sources. I think it is a Medium-importance subject (Low importance would apply to very rare conditions, specific assessment tools etc). I think it is actually very hard to reliably define the boundaries of particular specialties of medicine. For this, a recent textbook is an excellent source. But to have sections called "contemporary practice" and outlining international differences is very likely to lead to original research... unless of course there are sources devoted specifically to differences in the practice of liaison psychiatry in different countries.
I think Justinmarley should try to work with Collectorian and other editors in setting a clear outline for this article. More importantly than international differences: what is the aegis of this specialty, what is its legal framework (e.g. the new Mental Health Act in the UK) etc. JFW | T@lk 19:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
The study of current practice is of crucial importance in every field of medicine as medicine is an ever-evolving science.It is essential that the general audience be aware of these current practice patterns which have a significant impact on the nature and delivery of healthcare services. Liaison psychiatry plays a very important role in the treatment of physical illnesses and contributes immensely to medical practice. A separate section on current practice will only help the general reader appreciate liaison psychiatry better. The argument that a section on current practice is against the guidelines is totally irrelevant and it is quite odd that I should be labelled as Justinmarley’s sockpuppet. I would request AnmaFinotera to please read the page on Please do not bite the newcomers. Plasmons ( talk) 13:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)Plasmons
1. There is a consensus (4-0) that there should be a current section in this article. I propose this is added. It would simply require the addition of the title Current Practice above the sections on USA and UK Liaison Psychiatry. 2. There are two doctors in this forum and one representative from WikiProject Medicine. I propose that 'requires an expert' label is removed. 3. There is a label saying that this article reads like a personal reflection or essay. Which aspects of the document is this referring to. Unless these parts of the document are identified, this label is unhelpful and should be removed. Justinmarley ( talk) 07:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
Justinmarley ( talk) 05:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I am requesting arbitration on the following (1) Removal of expert required label as this article has been amended/viewed by 2 doctors and 1 member of the Wikipedia Medicine Project (2)Explanation of reads like an essay - not clear what this is referring to - and removal if no reason forthcoming (3)Explanation of label about needs verifying with references - not clear which part of the article this is referring to - removal if no explanation forthcoming (4) Independent arbitration of point regarding current practice - I want to put current practice in - please look at arguments and other people's comments above 86.144.132.61 ( talk) 06:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
My Proposal for structuring this article is to follow that of other Wikipedia articles of this type in the absence of a template in WPMedMOS:- Introduction (although not usually titled as such) (31) (Hepatology, Neurology, Gastroenterology, Pulmonology, Endocrinology, Intensive Care Medicine, Rheumatology, Immunology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, General Practice, Geriatrics, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Palliative Care, Paediatrics, Rehabilitation Medicine, Preventive Medicine, Psychiatry, Medical Genetics, Medical Microbiology, Radiology, Cardiology, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, otolaryngology, Paediatric Surgery, Plastic Surgery, Trauma Surgery, Urology, Vascular Surgery) History and Key Discoveries (16) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology, Dermatology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Geriatrics, Opthalmology, Palliative Care, Rehabilitation Medicine, Psychiatry, Cardiology, Medical Genetics, Neurosurgery, Orthopaedic Surgery, Plastic Surgery) Training/Education/Training Across the World (16) (Neurology, Endocrinology, Nephrology, Dermatology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Opthalmology, Paediatrics, Rehabilitation Medicine, Radiology, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Orthopaedics, Trauma Surgery, Vascular Surgery) Scope of the Specialty/Field of Work/Diseases managed (12) (Hepatology, Neurology, Pulmonology, Nephrology, Proctology, Dermatology, Geriatrics, Psychiatry, Neurosurgery, Orthopaedics, Otolaryngology, Vascular Surgery) Important Procedures/Treatment/Treatment Settings (12) (Hepatology, Pulmonology, Haematology, Nephrology, Rheumatology, Immunology, Dermatology, Psychiatry, Cardiology, Orthopaedic Surgery, Plastic Surgery, Vascular Surgery) Sub-specialties (8) (Dermatology, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Opthalmology, Paediatrics, Psychiatry, General Surgery, otolaryngology, Urology) Societies/Organisations around the world (7) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Nephrology, Emergency Medicine, Medical Genetics, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Otolaryngology) Diagnosis/Investigations (8) (Pulmonology, Nephrology, Oncology, Haematology, Rheumatology, Immunology, Dermatology, Radiology) Disease Classification/Diseases (7) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology, Nephrology, Rheumatology, Dermatology, Psychiatry) Scientific Research (5)(Pulmonology, Oncology, Rheumatology, Dermatology, Psychiatry) Current Practice Across the World/Current Trends (5) (General Practice, Geriatrics, Palliative Care, General Surgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery ) Notable Practitioners (4)(Nephrology, Opthalmology, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery) Publications/Journals (2) (Hepatology, Rehabilitation Medicine) Definitions (2) (Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine) Ethical Issues (2) (Oncology, Psychiatry) Justinmarley ( talk) 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
As above, the article has already been reviewed by people with relevant experience and from the appropriate wiki medicine project Justinmarley ( talk) 06:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
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justinmarley started a Medical Specialties discussion on Manual of Style/Medicine-related Talk page. It may have lead to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Medical_specialties. He also added the worldview template which was later corrected to be the globalization template but it is necessary?
Collectonian renamed her account AnmaFinotera then wrote that she quit in 2010 but she probably just created a new account. Her examples of Schizophrenia, Cystic fibrosis, Keratoconus were selected by her because they were quality articles, not because they were in/under Category:Psychiatric specialities which would be more relevant examples. I'm looking for a quality article under that category.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am removing the "Personal Reflection" label - I have updated the article to make it more objective and descriptive. I will try and address other issues in due course. Abt21 ( talk) 10:15, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
"Cleanup" tag: I'd like to think that I did a reasonable job of cleaning this page already. Unless anyone objects I'll remove this tag in 2 weeks or so. Abt21 ( talk) 10:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Citations/original research: part of the description I have written comes from my own experience (e.g. what sorts of conditions are seen). Can anyone give an example of the sorts of citations that would be needed to address this? Abt21 ( talk) 10:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
First point - these two books (Psychosomatic Medicine and A Handbook of Elementary Psychobiology and Psychiatry) are very important points in the field. I would recommend that you do a simple google search to find other people's comments on these books. If you want me to reference somebody saying these books are important in a peer reviewed source I will be most happy to do so. It just means for every important text I will be putting two reference instead of one. I have put a number of references to back up points e.g. german liaison psychiatry The second point - i'm just looking at your reference about this page requiring an expert on the subject. Can you just say a little bit more about your justification for this statement. Are you making a statement about me. Third point - why are you removing the structure of this article. The structure of having the history of the field then leading onto contemporary practice seems to me to be eminently sensible and yet your edit to remove this structure seems to me to make it more like an essay than an encyclopedic reference. Fourth point - if you look at some of the featured articles on wikipedia, you'll find that they do actually reference important books on the subject. This actually makes it easy for people to locate these books, purchase them and further their knowledge etc Fifth point - Dividing up contemporary liaison psychiatry into different geographical locations is important for the global audience that Wikipedia receives Justinmarley ( talk) 11:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I am going to create a section called contemporary liaison psychiatry. Does anyone have any objections to this. If not I will proceed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 11:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Justifications for having a section on Contemporary Liaison Psychiatry
An alternative to contemporary is current practice Your point that contemporary or current practice is subjective is an unusual point and is a philosophical point rather than one specific to this article. If we take something with which you are familiar - HTML - we see that it has the following sections
origins current flavours of HTML
Surely if you argue that history and contemporary practice are subjective, then you should also make the relevant changes to this article. I would mean contemporary practice to mean in the last few decades which is sufficiently long to allow service changes to be implemented —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I've checked the link out that you've pointed to. If you read it closely you'll find that it doesn't actually refer to services/fields but rather to syndromes. With regards to the other points in the guide, i have been compliant with these points. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
Firstly i would recommend that you look at the featured article on the history of biology. This contains a very specific sentence about a book written by Morgan about Mendelian heredity. This is an explicit example of an article which is recognised for its quality and which contains a reference to a book without referring to specific parts of the book. This contradicts your opinion that referencing books without alluding to their content is out of keeping with Wikipedia style. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
The articles you have referred me to are about illnesses e.g. schizophrenia. Liaison Psychiatry is about a field/discipline/service and as such has a number of qualities that are distinct from an illness. It is necessarily about how people think about illnesses, about services being provided, about systems being put in place and about identifying what has caused changes in the field. The analysis must as a necessity occur on a number of different levels. Justinmarley ( talk) 12:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I don't quite understand why you say this field is of low importance. Are you saying that treating people with a mental illness in a hospital setting isn't important. Having a big label saying that its not important certainly seems to be saying that Justinmarley ( talk) 12:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
There is no reason from the Wikipedia guidance why current practice should not be included as a separate section. Your argument seems to be that it is subjective. I do not think that this is a valid argument. I think we clearly need an arbiter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinmarley ( talk • contribs) 12:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Justinmarley ( talk) 12:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
AnmaFinotera asked WP:MED to join in here. So we have OR, edit warring and sockpuppetry. I think much of this has to do with the tone expected from an encyclopedia article, and how to support this with sources. I think it is a Medium-importance subject (Low importance would apply to very rare conditions, specific assessment tools etc). I think it is actually very hard to reliably define the boundaries of particular specialties of medicine. For this, a recent textbook is an excellent source. But to have sections called "contemporary practice" and outlining international differences is very likely to lead to original research... unless of course there are sources devoted specifically to differences in the practice of liaison psychiatry in different countries.
I think Justinmarley should try to work with Collectorian and other editors in setting a clear outline for this article. More importantly than international differences: what is the aegis of this specialty, what is its legal framework (e.g. the new Mental Health Act in the UK) etc. JFW | T@lk 19:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
The study of current practice is of crucial importance in every field of medicine as medicine is an ever-evolving science.It is essential that the general audience be aware of these current practice patterns which have a significant impact on the nature and delivery of healthcare services. Liaison psychiatry plays a very important role in the treatment of physical illnesses and contributes immensely to medical practice. A separate section on current practice will only help the general reader appreciate liaison psychiatry better. The argument that a section on current practice is against the guidelines is totally irrelevant and it is quite odd that I should be labelled as Justinmarley’s sockpuppet. I would request AnmaFinotera to please read the page on Please do not bite the newcomers. Plasmons ( talk) 13:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)Plasmons
1. There is a consensus (4-0) that there should be a current section in this article. I propose this is added. It would simply require the addition of the title Current Practice above the sections on USA and UK Liaison Psychiatry. 2. There are two doctors in this forum and one representative from WikiProject Medicine. I propose that 'requires an expert' label is removed. 3. There is a label saying that this article reads like a personal reflection or essay. Which aspects of the document is this referring to. Unless these parts of the document are identified, this label is unhelpful and should be removed. Justinmarley ( talk) 07:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
Justinmarley ( talk) 05:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
I am requesting arbitration on the following (1) Removal of expert required label as this article has been amended/viewed by 2 doctors and 1 member of the Wikipedia Medicine Project (2)Explanation of reads like an essay - not clear what this is referring to - and removal if no reason forthcoming (3)Explanation of label about needs verifying with references - not clear which part of the article this is referring to - removal if no explanation forthcoming (4) Independent arbitration of point regarding current practice - I want to put current practice in - please look at arguments and other people's comments above 86.144.132.61 ( talk) 06:28, 13 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
My Proposal for structuring this article is to follow that of other Wikipedia articles of this type in the absence of a template in WPMedMOS:- Introduction (although not usually titled as such) (31) (Hepatology, Neurology, Gastroenterology, Pulmonology, Endocrinology, Intensive Care Medicine, Rheumatology, Immunology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, General Practice, Geriatrics, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Palliative Care, Paediatrics, Rehabilitation Medicine, Preventive Medicine, Psychiatry, Medical Genetics, Medical Microbiology, Radiology, Cardiology, General Surgery, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, otolaryngology, Paediatric Surgery, Plastic Surgery, Trauma Surgery, Urology, Vascular Surgery) History and Key Discoveries (16) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology, Dermatology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Geriatrics, Opthalmology, Palliative Care, Rehabilitation Medicine, Psychiatry, Cardiology, Medical Genetics, Neurosurgery, Orthopaedic Surgery, Plastic Surgery) Training/Education/Training Across the World (16) (Neurology, Endocrinology, Nephrology, Dermatology, Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Opthalmology, Paediatrics, Rehabilitation Medicine, Radiology, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Orthopaedics, Trauma Surgery, Vascular Surgery) Scope of the Specialty/Field of Work/Diseases managed (12) (Hepatology, Neurology, Pulmonology, Nephrology, Proctology, Dermatology, Geriatrics, Psychiatry, Neurosurgery, Orthopaedics, Otolaryngology, Vascular Surgery) Important Procedures/Treatment/Treatment Settings (12) (Hepatology, Pulmonology, Haematology, Nephrology, Rheumatology, Immunology, Dermatology, Psychiatry, Cardiology, Orthopaedic Surgery, Plastic Surgery, Vascular Surgery) Sub-specialties (8) (Dermatology, Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Opthalmology, Paediatrics, Psychiatry, General Surgery, otolaryngology, Urology) Societies/Organisations around the world (7) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Nephrology, Emergency Medicine, Medical Genetics, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, Otolaryngology) Diagnosis/Investigations (8) (Pulmonology, Nephrology, Oncology, Haematology, Rheumatology, Immunology, Dermatology, Radiology) Disease Classification/Diseases (7) (Hepatology, Gastroenterology, Endocrinology, Nephrology, Rheumatology, Dermatology, Psychiatry) Scientific Research (5)(Pulmonology, Oncology, Rheumatology, Dermatology, Psychiatry) Current Practice Across the World/Current Trends (5) (General Practice, Geriatrics, Palliative Care, General Surgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery ) Notable Practitioners (4)(Nephrology, Opthalmology, Neurosurgery, Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery) Publications/Journals (2) (Hepatology, Rehabilitation Medicine) Definitions (2) (Disaster Medicine, Emergency Medicine) Ethical Issues (2) (Oncology, Psychiatry) Justinmarley ( talk) 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)justinmarley
As above, the article has already been reviewed by people with relevant experience and from the appropriate wiki medicine project Justinmarley ( talk) 06:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Liaison psychiatry. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:03, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
justinmarley started a Medical Specialties discussion on Manual of Style/Medicine-related Talk page. It may have lead to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles#Medical_specialties. He also added the worldview template which was later corrected to be the globalization template but it is necessary?
Collectonian renamed her account AnmaFinotera then wrote that she quit in 2010 but she probably just created a new account. Her examples of Schizophrenia, Cystic fibrosis, Keratoconus were selected by her because they were quality articles, not because they were in/under Category:Psychiatric specialities which would be more relevant examples. I'm looking for a quality article under that category.