This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
A recent enonymous edit changed "Cohen fathered two children with dancer Suzanne Verdal McCallister"... to "Cohen fathered two children with artist Suzanne Elrod". I have no idea of the facts, and neither cites a reference, so I am not reverting, but it would be good if someone could sort this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:23, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
" It is widely believed that if there's a god, he's Leonard. " Oh, that's wonderful. Shame about the revert. Tolo 06:30, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
I cut the following recent anonymous addition, pending citation. "He also expressed interest to become a police officer in his early years." I can't say it's wrong, but I never heard of it, and I'd want to see a citation that this is more than either a random claim or that at the age of 6 he made some childish remark. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:50, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
Who the heck are the recently (red-)linked Midnight Choir? Is this real, or just a reference to the lyrics of "Bird on a Wire"? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:11, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)
On this basis, I will delete it, pending documentation. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:27, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)
Midnight Choir is a Norwegian band, as Tolo said, and yes, they did a cover of Leonard Cohen's Bird On The Wire. It has the same title and is the last song of an untitled rarity album from early 1994, that has only been issued in Norway and sold in about 1800 copies as far as I know (it was at the very beginning of the band). Maybe you're right about this not being sufficiently encyclopedic, since it (the song) is so unknown - though the band is quite well known in Scandinavia and the German countries - which I didn't think about, but the cover version exists for sure. Oh and as for the "red"-linking, I am planning to make an article about the band soon, that's why I linked it already. Greetings Totti 19:30, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
is it worth mentioning Ian McCulloch from Echo and the Bunnymen as a person inspired by Cohen and later to produce a tribute album? (anon 13 March 2005)
I have added info abou his busking activities found at http://www.webheights.net/speakingcohen/st93.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.132.58.112 ( talk • contribs) 25 May 2006.
Reading the section that describes his music in a bit of detail, it seems that the section isn't very well balanced. His first three or four albums are covered in a short paragraph, whilst his work from I'm Your Man onwards devotes a long paragraph to each album. This is odd as those first three or four albums were so acclaimed, were his most influential and are often seen as being the "heart" of his work. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to expand the parts about the earlier albums. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.0.223.244 ( talk • contribs) 15 May 2006.
An anonymous user keeps adding mention of a cover of "Chelsea Hotel" by The Conspiracy of Beards to the article. I see no reason why, out of over 1,000 covers of Leonard Cohen, this cover by a choir with no national or international reputation is notable. I have more than once reverted it with edit summaries indicating this and asking the person to explain on the talk page why this is notable. The person has not taken me up on this. Instead, he/she just keeps adding it back to the article. Mere persistence by this anonymous user will not change my mind about this. Either make a case, or I will keep reverting. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:39, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
Hi -- That would be I. The Conspiracy of Beards has received international attention by the media for their cover songs of Leonard Cohen's poetry. They have been on National radio, perform live regularly and soon will be doing a tour both in the US and in Europe.Their CD is set to release in 2005. Although they are not as famous as these other groups, they soon will be. Check out their entry The Conspiracy of Beards and web site. Merigorownd 15:25, August 8, 2005
It says in the article "The third and fourth verses of the original lyrics were changed by Cale; Buckley, Crowe and Wainright use these lyrics; Bono and lang use the original." I believe this to be erroneous for three reasons. One, Cale is not given a songwriting credit for his addition to the song. Two, these lyrics appear as "additional lyrics" in the Cohen book of poetry "Stranger Music" on page 348 and Cale is not given credit for these new lyrics. Third, Cohen sings these new lyrics on "Cohen Live". There is no evidence that Cale wrote these lyrics, but I'll concede that Cale's version is the first time these new lyrics appeared on CD. 221.189.95.78 22:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC) ADD: The "Hallelujah" on "Cohen Live" is from a Halloween concert in 1988, predating "I'm Your Fan" (1991). 221.189.95.78 22:59, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Suggestion: Change the photo to one where he's not wearing darkened glasses. Anyone have one that could be used? ... or is that pic particularly meaningful for some reason I'm not aware of? -- Nephtes 22:38, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The following remark was kind of clumsily inserted into the "Early life" section: "Leonard Cohen, in his early and later life was a Zionist." I cut it, but only because it didn't sit well where it was. Cohen, as I understand it, has at least for most of his life pretty ardently supported Zionism, though obviously not to the point of making aliyah himself. We mention, accurately to the best of my knowledge (although it is uncited) "In 1973, Cohen toured Israel and performed at army bases during the Yom Kippur War." Should we perhaps have more on this? Does someone have citable material? -- Jmabel | Talk 04:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
What the heck is meant by "a somewhat middle-class … family"? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:34, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There are several cases of POV in the article, most notably "Some of his songs, such as "Ballad of the Absent Mare" and "Hallelujah" are simply beautiful". Someone (with more experience than me) should go and correct them, if possible. Daniel ( ☎) 20:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we should further prune the covers list, keeping only people who are/were famous or influential in their own right, ore where the cover was a hit. I would like to know the basis on which the following are included:
http://leonardcohenfiles.com/test.html is clearly trying to maintain a complete list. If you simply think this fact belongs on the web someplace, and they are lacking it, I'm sure they would love to add more examples, even obscure ones.
-- Jmabel | Talk 20:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
If you're after a complete list, Dave Van Ronk did a cover of "Bird on [a/the] Wire" - it's currently available on cd, "The Mayor of MacDougal Street: Rarities 1957-69", but was on the Polydor 24-4052 "Van Ronk" vinyl (cd info from Amazon, vinyl from Van Ronk unofficial fan site) - is Van Ronk famous, maybe not - NYC named a street after him... (KLB)
User:Sunray has deleted one person's addition about Cohen's recent appearance on the grounds of it not being encyclopedic, but has left another (mine) intact - why? Personally I think something needs to be said about it; as I said, it was his first public appearance in 13 years, and therefore significant. -- Richardrj 18:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
What is the specific source upon which the claims of Cohen's anti-abortion stance are based? I see some references to this via a Google search, but many are referencing Wikipedia (or copying it, of course). I have also seen sites stating that his opinion on the specific issue are not clear, despite his frequent metaphorical references to the subject (a reasonable argument in my opinion, considering the abosolutely tangled mass of metaphors he tends to employ). Fearwig 05:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
<safe interpretation= inner child>
<safe interpretation=sending own childern to make war, the words refer to abraham and isaac story.>
Since the "I'm Your Man" film has its own section, I've removed a paragraph about it from the "recent activity" section. a) The film is not really an "activity" by Cohen, and b) the paragraph contained a lot of incorrect info anyways. -- Nephtes 17:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
While I'm glad there's a music section, I find it very annoying that one person's interpretation of those songs stands in the article. Cohen's lyrics are beautiful, ornate, mysterious, and it's very arrogant to think anyone could ever truly understand them. For instance, saying that Cohen describes his own politics in songs from The Future. Sez who? Who says he wasn't writing about a character? Who's to say he wasn't after something merely euphonic? I dislike not only the idea of one person's interpretation, but these interpretations in particular because they strike me as facile and lazy. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.198.201.145 ( talk)
In the Music section, it states that "Everybody Knows" was on The Future, but in the Covers section, it states that it was on "I'm Your Man." I own The Future and it's not on that album. Can someone confirm which album it is on. - godospoons
Once again, the "covers" section is turning into a laundry list. There are easily 1,000 recorded versions of Cohen songs. We should only be mentioning those where at least one of the following applies:
I'm open to other rationales, but these are the ones I can see.
Can someone please explain why the following are notable enough to merit mention:
- Jmabel | Talk 06:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
A week has gone by. No defenses of any of them as meriting mention. Removing all. - Jmabel | Talk 07:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Folks: this isn't Wikiquote. I intend to do a major trim on the quotations. I suggest that any of these that are not on Wikiquote be copied there, because all presumably do merit inclusion there. I'll hold off for a week. - Jmabel | Talk 07:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
In the list of covers of Cohen songs:
I don't know these two recordings, but the song itself is not a Cohen song: his version is a cover. Are these two recordings in some specific sense covers of Cohen's performance of the song? If not, they should be deleted from the list. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:12, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
Cohen changed the words quite a bit, too. The original had words meaning "then we'll return to the shade"; but Cohen sings "then we'll come from the shadows". See for example www.leonardcohensite.com/partisanfr.htm, where someone says "Je suis tres intrigué par le fait suivant: le dernier vers de la version originale, "Nous rentrerons dans l'ombre" est "traduit" en "Then we'll come from the shadows", soit "Puis nous sortirons de l'Ombre", c'est à dire l'inverse du sens supposé de la version originale." But this of course only gives further evidence that Cohen is a supreme poet (and in effect God, going incognito to the masses).
-- Noetica 13:55, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The Partisan was NOT written by Cohen. It is a song written by and for the French Resistance Movement. It was written by Anna Marly and Emmanuel d'Astier in London 1942 and was a direct attack at the fascists. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.47.106.5 ( talk • contribs) 29 September 2006.
Isn't it a bit misleading to say (in the info panel at the top of the article) that Cohen has been active since 1967? The article introduces him as a poet, novelist, and songwriter; surely then we should say he has been active since 1956, the year when his first poetry collection was published. R Lowry 21:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The article cites that Lord of War used Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah, but to me it sounds more like John Cale's...I could be wrong, though, I don't have a copy of the film (and I only have Cale's version to compare it with anyway). Can anyone confirm if the version that appears in the film is really Buckley's? Archiesteel 15:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Cohen said in Poland today (on the radio of Trójka) that his family has roots in Poland and Eastern Europe at all. He feels as a Canadian with Jewish and Polish origin... So I will add him to Polish-Canadians category ;) Kowalmistrz 14:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it's a testament to Leonard Cohen to see so many people covering his songs...it's also an occasional problem on this page as the covers subsection sometimes becomes a laundry list...why not make another article for the covers (and include some of the less-known ones)? We could also add the tribute albums on there as well (since they're related). I propose to do it, I'll let everyone weigh in on it for a couple of days first. Archiesteel 01:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Image:Cohen Live.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 06:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Field Commander Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:More Best of Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 23:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenTenNewSongs.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenImYourMan.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenDearHeather.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Leonard Cohen So Long Marianne.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:The Essential Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:The Best of Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. -- Merope 18:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
im sure it doesnt warrant specific mention in the main article(s) but cohen sure seems to mention drug use (presumaly heroin) in at least two of his earlier songs, 'stranger song' and 'the butcher'. any info? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.183.21.218 ( talk) 03:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
It strikes me that the 'Memorable Quotes' are completely subjective, and could include all of Leonard Cohen's writings if you get everyone's opinions. What, then, is the point? Tolo 18:01, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)
"Well, maybe there's a God above/ But all I've ever learned from love/ Was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya"—from "Hallelujah" (1984) <- This line is from Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah so I removed it from the quotations list.
"This line is from Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah so I removed it from the quotations" That line is actually from Cohen's 1988 version of Hallelujah. Buckley (and others) simply mixed verses from the 1984 and 1988 versions. The line is still Cohen's. Leatherwing 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Last week, Monsieur Camembert released the original cast recording of "Famous Blue Cheese - The Leonard Cohen Show". The album contains some of the most novel interpretations of Cohen songs ever recorded, and there are sound-samples at the following websites: http://www.myspace.com/monsieurcamembert http://www.myspace.com/mcfamousbluecheese
There is also a 2hr Cohen special recorded for ABC Radio in Australia, which contains 10 songs from the new album... You can listen for the next 2 weeks at... http://www.abc.net.au/rn/weekendplanet/stories/2007/1947823.htm To purchase the album, please visit... http://www.islandwebs.com.au/applications/search/search_result.asp?ItemID=762
Monsieurcamembert 08:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)Cheers, Yaron Hallis
It is always a bad sign when the External links section needs subheadings for navigation. Can a knowledgeable editor do some radical pruning? Jkelly 21:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Not sure where to put this but the references #3 and #10 seem to be the same - #3 is a copy of the list at #10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.67.224 ( talk) 18:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
All spelling on this page should be in Canadian English, due to the fact that Cohen is Canadian. --Zippanova 05:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Renditions by other singers has once again become a long list of mostly not-too-notable cover versions. I've trimmed it before, I'm not doing it this time, but it should be done. Given that we link externally to a page that attempts to be comprehensive about this, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything to create a half-assed version of that page here.
I strongly suggest that the list be confined to:
This means dropping mentions of perfectly nice performers like The Dukhs, the Klezmer Conservatory Band, and Roy Buchanan. Again, someone else is being exhaustive, we don't have to. - Jmabel | Talk 17:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, can anyone please provide sources that prove that Leonard Cohen is vegetarian? Thanks. -- Amir E. Aharoni 06:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I hope I'm not bursting any bubbles here, but Leonard is not (currently) a vegetarian. Sandover 16:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
In the biographical film Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Leonard Cohen, Cohen implied that, at that time, 1965, he had stopped eating meet, which made him feel more honorable when, for example, he patted a dog. TRoethke ( talk) 14:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above statements in MUSIC about personal interpretations of Cohen's lyrics without quotes of him as evidence of his intentions when he wrote them. Peronally, I feel that this line, in 'Themes' is another example:
"Coming Back to you" and "If It Be Your Will" are clearly addressed to a Judeo-Christian God."
Now if there is a direct quote from LC confirming this, it should be included with that statement. If there isn't such a quote, this should be removed. Someone's personal interpretations of cryptic poetry being explained as 'clearly' meaning something, while other interpretations are just as possible should really be avoided. For one thing, both songs, but especially 'Coming back to you' could more simply be explained as a song about love for a woman. It's not as if LC is averse to writing about that topic either. Not to mention that lines like
"Even in your arms I know, I'll never get it right. Even when you bend to give me Comfort in the night"
sound more like love for a woman to me. Is it possible it's all metaphor for love for a personal god? Sure, but then a quote from him should be included to prove that. The reason I took the line out already is that the wiki article dedicated to the songs' album 'Various Positions', declares the 'Coming Back to You' an 'unusually straightforward love song'. Consistency would be better, I think. If anyone disagrees, or has any quotes proving this subjective POV, please let me know. ( ArcodH 16:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC))
If anyone wants to preserve any of the entries in this section, he should find a way to incorporate them into the main article as soon as possible. "Trivia sections are discouraged in Wikipedia", and this one is going soon. Grab what you value now. TheScotch ( talk) 05:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
content rather than its destruction. -- SSB ohio 17:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Re: "Is Cohen's place in popular culture trivial?":
The section title is obviously a euphemism for "trivia". Any explanation of Cohen's real place in culture, popular or other, (which of course would not involve a series of randomly arranged miscellaneous and unconnected entries) belongs in the main body of the article. TheScotch ( talk) 21:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Re: "I recommend that this effort be directed toward improving the content rather than its destruction.":
If you care to preserve any of the current entries, you will find a way to incorporate them into the main body of the article. Please do not add anything to this section; it's going to be deleted. TheScotch ( talk) 18:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of placing your remarks where they belong chronologically. Interpolating them into my remarks is tantamount to editing my remarks, which I've not given you permission to do.
Re: "I don't see a dismissive tone as at all helpful in this matter. At the very least, meet me halfway by admitting that my perspective is worthy as well, rather than disparaging the work of others and, by extension, denying that any view but your own should hold sway.":
1) You are not invited or welcome to critique my "tone" or anyone else's. 2) I am not obliged to meet you "halfway" where I think you are entirely wrong, and I call things the way I see them. 3) I'm not "disparaging" anyone or anyone's work here. 4) The "view" I've expressed is simply the official wikipedia "view".
Re: "I don't accept that the section is indefensible because you state it so. How and why is it indefensible? Further, anything that's pretty much doomed is not, in fact, doomed at all. In actuality, your response reinforces my point: that a thing's being discouraged is not the same as its being forbidden. A recommendation shouldn't be confused with a proscription. Even the {{ trivia}} template doesn't call for wholesale deletion.":
1) Notice my phrase "as a practical matter". It's indefensible because it will not withstand. This is the way of challenged trivia sections in wikipedia, and I'm speaking purely from experience. 2) I qualified "doomed" with "pretty much" to allow for the possibility that some trivia sections may have magically escaped, not to suggest that trivia sections ultimately inhabit some sort of limbo. "Pretty much" used in this way is a common figure of speech with which you may wish to acquaint yourself. 3) The template explains that entries (all entries) within a trivia section worth retaining should be incorporated into the main body of the article. Obviously, if all entries have either been incorporated or deleted, the section itself will be empty and a candidate for "wholesale deletion". Essentially, you are misreading the template.
Re: "To put it another way, suppose I took the opposite approach and vowed to keep the in popular culture section in the article. How would that be? Vowing to keep anything in or out of an article is counterproductive, since the content of any article is determined by consensus.":
1) Vow that if you like, but it won't do you any good. 2) I'm not vowing "to keep anything in or out of [the] article"; I'm merely vowing to (warning you that I'm about to) delete this section. If you're concerned about being "counterproductive", you'll find something else to do at wikipedia (or outside wikipedia) because this little war you're attempting to wage is a lost cause. 3) The "consensus" is that trivia sections don't belong in wikipedia.
Once again: if you think anything in the section is worth preserving, you will find a way to incorporate it into the main body of the article. Do it soon because the section is going. TheScotch ( talk) 04:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a portrait by Ines Zgonc, which does seem to capture how the guy is (or appears to be) at the moment. I suspect it will be controversial, being a painting rather than a "real image" (sic). Please could editors discuss it's merits rather than just remove it: the other most recent picture on the article is over 30 years old (and Ines's work is getting rather good). -- Simon Speed ( talk) 19:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
"His work often explores the themes of religion, isolation, sexuality, and complex interpersonal relationships. He is also black."
I presume this is a joke? I cant seem to edit this out though. Please, do so, or explain what you mean in sensical terms.
Thanks, Brock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.114.141.250 ( talk) 14:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Its been sorted. BrockFettes ( talk) 15:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
This new paragraph is total nonsense! His songs were NEVER banned, quite contrary, together with Dylan, his was very popular from very beginning. In former Yugoslavia, his early LPs were pressed by the local Columbia company (Suzy) and also imported. This complete sectionn is better to be removed, and Zembaty-phenomenon could be put somewhere else. As for Hungary, that's not verified. Also, complete tribute CD was also produced in Croatia (Ibrica Jusic) and the Czech Republic (Juraj Kukura), and songs were covered in Slovenia, Russia, etc. Croatian singer-songwriter/poet Arsen Dedic recorded trbute album in 1970s, but it was never released due to technical problems (4 songs resurfaced recenly from the studio, and apparently the mastertape was damaged after the sessions but before the release, so the project was abandoned as Dedic fell into depression, what's all referenced in various articles at Croatian Cohen site). Tomsak ( talk) 19:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
There was a really good interview (30 mins) on Radio 4's front row programme. This will be available for 7 days under the listen again feature. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/frontrow/past_programmes.shtml
There might be some useful information to be gleaned from this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.249.2.158 ( talk) 07:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I am reverting the insertion of the following material:
According to the BBC website Leonard Cohen has decided not to be recorded for TV or radio on his 2008 tour. It was indeed surprising that Cohen's set at Glastonbury (one of the major artists to perform there in recent years) was not broadcast live whilst many obscure bands were shown live on the BBC. [1] Many users on Youtube have uploaded his performance anyway. (Search youtube for multiple sources). In a controversial action fans are calling for a boycott of the tour DVD when it comes out.
Per WP:BLP, "Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source." The only source cited, the BBC, does support the first sentence of the disputed material, but none of the rest of it. Without any context, there is no reason to include the statement that he has decided not to be recorded for TV or radio during his tour. The rest of the material is completely unsourced, and must therefore be removed. Sarcasticidealist ( talk) 19:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I think the recent deletions should be restored in part. The renditions section really waited for one brave death stroke like User:Be Black Hole Sun's. But he removed with it some of the simple discography, as if the studio albums should somehow stand for the rest Cohen's releases too. The user who scrolls directly to what purports to be a discography now may remain ignorant of their existence altogether. His newly created separate discography page is detailed enough to merit preserving without presenting some items exclusively. Perhaps he has just not checked carefully what he removed.
I found the objection for listing tribute albums MOS:DISCOG#What_should_not_be_included here. I cannot understand it. They show an important level of notability and reception an artist has achieved and show how he inspired and whom. Of course, there is no need to make make trivia out of it, and the albums are not equally notable.
The Film section is not about his acting career, but about films he is affiliated with in various ways: singing performances, interviews, reading poetry, writing and narrating (I have seen none.) Again, some may be cleaned-up individually. I don't see how they are they less proper for our readership the basic discography. It will be useless to bother the readers with opening another page for this details, especially considering how few they are, but if it is decided they will migrate, their page should be created now, before they are lost under newer edits. Will Be Black Hole Sun volunteer? trespassers william ( talk) 21:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Join the rock music project today, it needs your help. -- Be Black Hole Sun ( talk) 08:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I found an excellent interview by Leonard Cohen about his songs and songwriting. It would provide a lot of information to add to the article. I included it also in the External Links for reference. I may come back later and see what can be developed from using it as a source. In the meantime, maybe someone else has more time now. For such an important person in the music world, his article could really use some more information.
Agadant ( talk) 17:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Removed the following which had been in the Titles and Honours section - is this in anyway significant, or just an attempt at publicity?
May be worth reinstating if the play ever tours or received some level of critical acclaim or popularity.
Dunxd ( talk) 11:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I'm quite sure that is Cale in Shrek. It's a slightly censored version of his recording; I can't now remember what they left out, but I remember that when I saw the movie I was thinking "what a wonderful recording to use here" and then found myself going, "that's not exactly how it went..." -- Jmabel | Talk 20:50, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
No, it's definetly Rufus Wainwright, according to the amazon page for the soundtrack album (and my own ears). Pyrop 21:29, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
Really? Damn, he is definitely covering Cale's arrangement then. It's note for note. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:59, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
You're both right: the version in the movie is Cale, but the version on the soundtrack is Wainwright. If you search google for 'shrek soundtrack John Cale' you'll find several sites saying that. Tolo 10:45, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
A winner at the 2009 Meteor Awards tonight! -- Candlewicke S T # :) 02:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Whoever wrote up the paragraph about this album in the music sub-section was clearly not a fan of the album. I don't know but unbacked claims like "The recording of the album was a complete fiasco" and "The end result is often thought gaudy and ostentatious, and Cohen's songwriting on this album is also thought to be some of his weakest" sound just a wee bit POV to me. Personally I love the album and the only reviews I've read of it have been overwhelmingly positive. That said, I know it was a controversial pair-up and was very much unlike anything Cohen had previously done or has done since. I've also read that Cohen himself didn't like the album but that still doesn't prove that it was "a complete fiasco" or "often thought gaudy and ostentatious." I'd like to see some sources for these comments or else I'm going to take them down. ... and I guess I forgot to sign this.-- Lairor 01:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
There are some developments that deserve mention I think. I think others more qualified should make the actual entries. I couldn't figure out how to add the album.
1. New CD and DVD albums have been released, "Leonard Cohen - Live in London", apparently his only live concert release. It was released in 2009 and was recorded live in a concert in the O2 Arena in London on July 17, 2008.
2. He is on a major world tour, "Leonard Cohen WORLD TOUR '09"
In the interests of completeness at least some mention should be made of his financial and legal difficulties. These problems are probably at least part of the reason he is on tour now. (Lucky for us.)
JFistere ( talk) 05:25, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this category is appropriate, since he never left Judaism. It's not really 'converting' if you keep your old religion. Zazaban ( talk) 05:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
See "Leonard Cohen: Several Lifetimes Already", Shambala Sun, and "On the Road, for Reasons Practical and Spiritual ", NY Times: “Well, for one thing, in the tradition of Zen that I’ve practiced, there is no prayerful worship and there is no affirmation of a deity. So theologically there is no challenge to any Jewish belief.” Hyacinth ( talk) 23:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Given that the advert template has recently been added to the article, I would like to hear from the person that added it which passages they think reflect an advertisement-like tone. If we can identify the problematic passages, we can work on correcting them. If I don't see any concrete suggestions here as to what needs fixing, we can remove the tag as unactionable in a day or so. -- Jayron 32 06:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
When I looked at this article today, the genres included Blues and World Music. For the life of me, I cannot see any connection between Cohen's music and Blues but the non-happy tone of a lot of the songs. But that's not what defines the music genre "Blues". Blues is a style involving the use of microtones and often involves certain basic chord sequences, neither of which are relevant to Cohen's work. World Music also seemed wrong. True, a few songs like Dance Me To The End Of Love have some ethnic instrumentation. But a few such touches scattered across five decades don't turn an artist into a World Music artist -- any more than the Beatles would be considered World Music because a couple of their songs contain a sitar and tablas. Accordingly, I edited the Genre area to eliminate those genres. If someone disagrees with me, let's discuss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garyrob ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
LauriJean: yes he sort of sings in an interesting way... kind of ethereal and constipated and conversationally spooky...
but very very earnest 209.34.132.110 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
There are many Cohen's songs in the movie Kiss the Sky (film). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0127629/soundtrack ISasha ( talk) 07:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia article List of Scientologists claims Cohen was a scientologist. This article does not mention it. If it is true, it deserves mentioning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jirka6 ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
i'd like to see some sort of fact to support this claim - i can't see how this relates to AIDS or any other desease. as far as i knowm this line refers to Adam & Eve in the garden of Eden, as a symbol of religion (perhaps institutionalized religion). i.e. the religion is just a relic in everyday's life. something that's admired for is beauty but isn't taken seriously anymore. Pclz ( talk) 07:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Arnold the Frog ( talk) 13:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC) - apologies, tildes missing when I first posted The existing link to http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1970323 is broken (I can't find an archive for this site). A public statement can be found at http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/025/2009/en/4f6becdc-e532-4f64-a755-c598a6c16e91/mde150252009en.pdf This indeed says that "Amnesty International has taken no position on boycotts anywhere in the world", which is plainly intended to squash suggestions that AI supported a boycott. However, on the NGO question it says merely that the intention was to distribute money to benefit "the Parents Forum: Bereaved Parents for Peace and Reconciliation and other Israeli and Palestinian NGOs". I am unable to wrestle this statement, both positive and vague, into an explanation why Leonard Cohen's approach was rejected.
Much more relevant is the later sentence "Given the different requirements of AI's work and that of the Fund both have agreed that at this point AIUSA will withdraw from active involvement with the Fund." My own wild uninstructed guess is that Cohen is not demanding that Israel abandon the Occupied Territories, and that AI sees this as pussyfooting around the "real" issue, but is there any public documentation out there?
This article says about Kelley Lynch that "Back in 1988, she'd been working as an assistant to his then-manager, who died that year." Is the manager the article refers to John Hammond? Was he Cohen's manager? -- 217.232.173.115 ( talk) 21:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The article claims that Leonard Cohen observes shabbat even when on tour. Yet, on Friday 17 September 2010, Leonard Cohen gave a concert (in Grenoble) while the sun had clearly set. A concert, for a professional performing artist, certainly counts as work. David.Monniaux ( talk) 20:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
"Companion of the Order of Canada, the nation's highest civilian honour" I was under the impression that the Order of Merit outranked the Order of Canada? For that matter I though that the Royal Victorian Order also outranked the Order of Canada? Threadnecromancer ( talk) 00:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)Threadnecromancer
Why I am removing these:
Cite your source. Simply not true.
Jmabel | Talk 04:19, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Dr. Henry Kissinger, perhaps you've heard of him, he was prominent a while back. An honorary doctorate.
Dr. Bill Cosby, wrote about a cartoon show he voiced. An actual doctorate. Go figure.
Henry Kissinger received a PhD in International Relations from Harvard University in 1954 -- not an honorary one. http://www.nndb.com/people/357/000022291/
SilverHike ( talk) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm a fan of Cohen for over 30 years now. I love Leonard Cohen Files website and the Leonard Cohen Forum. However, those are 1) a fan site 2) an internet chat forum. Even if they enlist Leonard's cooperation, it's still a fan site run by one man (that we are very blessed to have on earth) and a chat room. I question their use as a reference in this biography, which they are extensively. The fan site itself says its material is fully referenced by other sources; those sources should be directly used if they meet WP:RS. Using a chat forum as a source for a BLP sets off all sorts of red flags. Sorry to be a bummer, but this is a BLP. There are many wonderful published biographies of Cohen; they should be used primarily. Other events like tours and current events related to Cohen can be sourced from WP:RS sources. Cookiehead ( talk) 00:14, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
The lead section for this article is too long and is a breach of WP:LEAD. It will need a strict copy edit and streamline if this article ever hopes to progress to GA status. -- Cassianto ( talk) 00:36, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
I think what Bruce Eder has to say about Leonard Cohen in the second paragraph is unnecessary. 134.226.56.7 ( talk) 12:37, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Cohen has lived in the US since the 70s or 80s, right? He's never become a US citizen and still identifies himself as "Canadian"? Laval ( talk) 22:21, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
"Hallelujia" was performed 3 times in the TV series "The O.C.". Twice by Jeff Buckley (1 Season, episodes 2 and 27), and once by Imogen Heap (season 3 episode 25). The song was used for the maximum emotional effect each time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.107.132 ( talk) 04:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Why does "hallelujah" merit is own section? It's just one of many songs. If it is widely regarded as his most influential song, and that is why the song has its own section here, then that needs to be made clear (and cited!). Also, this song's section is just a paired-down duplicate of that song's own page, so it seems redundant where a link could suffice. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.29.78.156 (
talk)
18:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand the value of the sentence "Almost every song that Cohen has written could be interpreted as being about love and/or sex".
First off the statement has no source, moreover it is unnecessarily vague, and finally it doesn't (to my ear) even ring true about Cohen's music. Leonard Cohen explored a wide variety of themes, some of which are detailed in this section, for instance "depression", "religion", "politics", and it seems to my ear that in many cases these other themes (and more still) play at least as central a role in any particular song as that of love. A song like "Dress Rehearsal Rag", as a small example, may have something to do with love, but it is easy to argue that love is simply not what the song "is about". In fact, a huge number of songs could be interpreted as being about something other than "love and /or sex". Politics, religion, culture; Cohen seems to have many themes at the center of his songs.
I basically think the sentence is a throw-away. Couldn't you say the same thing about any song by any artist? In a certain sense, sure, I suppose everything has something to do with love or sex. All of his music also has something to do with life, with feelings, with relationships, with struggle, and a huge variety of other themes. I think that it is misleading to readers to state that "love and/or sex" are his central themes. Unless Cohen said this himself, I think it would be best to remove this whole section.
71.83.54.82 ( talk) 20:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC) Brian Melanson
I think it's clear L. Cohen is a poet. " Spoken Word" is a somewhat slippery term which Wikipedia's editor have called subjective on its page. I think Poetry should be listed on Cohen's Genres listing. Overful ( talk) 12:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
The article says Songs of Leonard Cohen was released in 1968 at one point and then 1967 at another point. Which is correct? - Added by Patrice : The first album was issued in Dec. 1967
Neil from the young ones says, "No one ever listens to me, I may as well be a Leonard Cohen Record"
I have removed "He is now romantically involved (and working) with Anjani Thomas". I saw Cohen live in Auckland a couple of nights ago, and when introducing the singers he singled out Sharon Robinson saying something like she has become his permanent soulmate (not those exact words). I know this is not good enough to justify inclusion of that in Wiki, but the entry I removed re Ajani Thomas seems to be well and truly out of date. And it wasn't referenced anyway, desipite being tagged for moths.
Themes - previously the only information under themes, subheading religion, was extremely speculative regarding his "interest" in Scientology. Obviously Abrahamic religions are a much greater theme in his music. I removed this sentence unless a more complete explanation of his themes can be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C102:D4E0:3543:7B57:50A5:F1D0 ( talk) 19:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Before the article can be added to the WP Main Page, the missing citations need to be fixed. But looking them over, it seems they are almost all for trivial details. I'm suggesting we trim the trivia to remove most of the "citation needed" tags. They can be added back later if anyone wants to add a source. -- Light show ( talk) 05:41, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kokomofred ( talk) 08:47, 11 November 2016 (UTC) date of death is 10 november not 7.
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
59.19.111.204 ( talk) 14:08, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
As a Canadian and a fan I am hoping we can clean this up. Wondering who is all here?.....and what needs to be done.
This is after a quick look...what do others see?-- Moxy ( talk) 18:57, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please correct the date of death - it is November 10th, not November 7th. Thank you :)
193.134.187.20 ( talk) 11:31, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Date of death November 10, 2016Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).</ref>
209.197.145.84 ( talk) 21:40, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Is this removal really an improvement?
There are few North American writers, even including the large East coast Jewish coterie, who are so obviously influenced throughout their career by their Jewish origins and cultural background. Of course this belongs in the lead. Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:07, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Boson that putting the word "Jewish" in the first sentence oversimplifies a complex thing. Jonathunder ( talk) 04:17, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
At the moment there is no reliable source for the date of death. Indeed Rolling Stone source [9] specifically says that no date was given. This suggests it was Monday, but we need a proper source for it.-- Slp1 ( talk) 04:36, 11 November 2016 (UTC).
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
122.58.51.235 ( talk) 02:31, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
There are two ways to make a bio unreadable, IMO. One is by not writing it. Another is by writing it but smothering it in trivia, such as this:
The Fall leg of the European tour started in early September with an open-air show in Florence, Italy, and continued through Germany, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria, where Cohen performed at the open-air opera stage of Römersteinbruch bei St. Margarethen im Burgenland, and then continued with dates in France, Poland, Russia (Moscow's State Kremlin Palace), Slovenia and Slovakia. Cohen's last European show was held in Sibamac Arena, in Bratislava, Slovakia. The shows in late September and October were performed without Sharon Robinson, who left this tour leg due to severe illness; the setlist omitted songs co-written by her, but old Cohen standards were added instead. citation needed
Most of the similar trivia about albums, their producers, tours, lists of cities and arenas, precise dates, what was sold at the snack bars, the weather report for that day, the exact number of people that showed up, etc., can be removed, tightened, or placed in notes, if noteworthy. This is a biography, not a concertology. Some serious trimming by editors would help this still 105KB article. -- Light show ( talk) 21:18, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
A recent enonymous edit changed "Cohen fathered two children with dancer Suzanne Verdal McCallister"... to "Cohen fathered two children with artist Suzanne Elrod". I have no idea of the facts, and neither cites a reference, so I am not reverting, but it would be good if someone could sort this out. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:23, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
" It is widely believed that if there's a god, he's Leonard. " Oh, that's wonderful. Shame about the revert. Tolo 06:30, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
I cut the following recent anonymous addition, pending citation. "He also expressed interest to become a police officer in his early years." I can't say it's wrong, but I never heard of it, and I'd want to see a citation that this is more than either a random claim or that at the age of 6 he made some childish remark. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:50, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
Who the heck are the recently (red-)linked Midnight Choir? Is this real, or just a reference to the lyrics of "Bird on a Wire"? -- Jmabel | Talk 00:11, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)
On this basis, I will delete it, pending documentation. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:27, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)
Midnight Choir is a Norwegian band, as Tolo said, and yes, they did a cover of Leonard Cohen's Bird On The Wire. It has the same title and is the last song of an untitled rarity album from early 1994, that has only been issued in Norway and sold in about 1800 copies as far as I know (it was at the very beginning of the band). Maybe you're right about this not being sufficiently encyclopedic, since it (the song) is so unknown - though the band is quite well known in Scandinavia and the German countries - which I didn't think about, but the cover version exists for sure. Oh and as for the "red"-linking, I am planning to make an article about the band soon, that's why I linked it already. Greetings Totti 19:30, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
is it worth mentioning Ian McCulloch from Echo and the Bunnymen as a person inspired by Cohen and later to produce a tribute album? (anon 13 March 2005)
I have added info abou his busking activities found at http://www.webheights.net/speakingcohen/st93.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.132.58.112 ( talk • contribs) 25 May 2006.
Reading the section that describes his music in a bit of detail, it seems that the section isn't very well balanced. His first three or four albums are covered in a short paragraph, whilst his work from I'm Your Man onwards devotes a long paragraph to each album. This is odd as those first three or four albums were so acclaimed, were his most influential and are often seen as being the "heart" of his work. Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to expand the parts about the earlier albums. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.0.223.244 ( talk • contribs) 15 May 2006.
An anonymous user keeps adding mention of a cover of "Chelsea Hotel" by The Conspiracy of Beards to the article. I see no reason why, out of over 1,000 covers of Leonard Cohen, this cover by a choir with no national or international reputation is notable. I have more than once reverted it with edit summaries indicating this and asking the person to explain on the talk page why this is notable. The person has not taken me up on this. Instead, he/she just keeps adding it back to the article. Mere persistence by this anonymous user will not change my mind about this. Either make a case, or I will keep reverting. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:39, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
Hi -- That would be I. The Conspiracy of Beards has received international attention by the media for their cover songs of Leonard Cohen's poetry. They have been on National radio, perform live regularly and soon will be doing a tour both in the US and in Europe.Their CD is set to release in 2005. Although they are not as famous as these other groups, they soon will be. Check out their entry The Conspiracy of Beards and web site. Merigorownd 15:25, August 8, 2005
It says in the article "The third and fourth verses of the original lyrics were changed by Cale; Buckley, Crowe and Wainright use these lyrics; Bono and lang use the original." I believe this to be erroneous for three reasons. One, Cale is not given a songwriting credit for his addition to the song. Two, these lyrics appear as "additional lyrics" in the Cohen book of poetry "Stranger Music" on page 348 and Cale is not given credit for these new lyrics. Third, Cohen sings these new lyrics on "Cohen Live". There is no evidence that Cale wrote these lyrics, but I'll concede that Cale's version is the first time these new lyrics appeared on CD. 221.189.95.78 22:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC) ADD: The "Hallelujah" on "Cohen Live" is from a Halloween concert in 1988, predating "I'm Your Fan" (1991). 221.189.95.78 22:59, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Suggestion: Change the photo to one where he's not wearing darkened glasses. Anyone have one that could be used? ... or is that pic particularly meaningful for some reason I'm not aware of? -- Nephtes 22:38, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The following remark was kind of clumsily inserted into the "Early life" section: "Leonard Cohen, in his early and later life was a Zionist." I cut it, but only because it didn't sit well where it was. Cohen, as I understand it, has at least for most of his life pretty ardently supported Zionism, though obviously not to the point of making aliyah himself. We mention, accurately to the best of my knowledge (although it is uncited) "In 1973, Cohen toured Israel and performed at army bases during the Yom Kippur War." Should we perhaps have more on this? Does someone have citable material? -- Jmabel | Talk 04:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
What the heck is meant by "a somewhat middle-class … family"? -- Jmabel | Talk 05:34, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
There are several cases of POV in the article, most notably "Some of his songs, such as "Ballad of the Absent Mare" and "Hallelujah" are simply beautiful". Someone (with more experience than me) should go and correct them, if possible. Daniel ( ☎) 20:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we should further prune the covers list, keeping only people who are/were famous or influential in their own right, ore where the cover was a hit. I would like to know the basis on which the following are included:
http://leonardcohenfiles.com/test.html is clearly trying to maintain a complete list. If you simply think this fact belongs on the web someplace, and they are lacking it, I'm sure they would love to add more examples, even obscure ones.
-- Jmabel | Talk 20:03, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
If you're after a complete list, Dave Van Ronk did a cover of "Bird on [a/the] Wire" - it's currently available on cd, "The Mayor of MacDougal Street: Rarities 1957-69", but was on the Polydor 24-4052 "Van Ronk" vinyl (cd info from Amazon, vinyl from Van Ronk unofficial fan site) - is Van Ronk famous, maybe not - NYC named a street after him... (KLB)
User:Sunray has deleted one person's addition about Cohen's recent appearance on the grounds of it not being encyclopedic, but has left another (mine) intact - why? Personally I think something needs to be said about it; as I said, it was his first public appearance in 13 years, and therefore significant. -- Richardrj 18:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
What is the specific source upon which the claims of Cohen's anti-abortion stance are based? I see some references to this via a Google search, but many are referencing Wikipedia (or copying it, of course). I have also seen sites stating that his opinion on the specific issue are not clear, despite his frequent metaphorical references to the subject (a reasonable argument in my opinion, considering the abosolutely tangled mass of metaphors he tends to employ). Fearwig 05:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
<safe interpretation= inner child>
<safe interpretation=sending own childern to make war, the words refer to abraham and isaac story.>
Since the "I'm Your Man" film has its own section, I've removed a paragraph about it from the "recent activity" section. a) The film is not really an "activity" by Cohen, and b) the paragraph contained a lot of incorrect info anyways. -- Nephtes 17:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
While I'm glad there's a music section, I find it very annoying that one person's interpretation of those songs stands in the article. Cohen's lyrics are beautiful, ornate, mysterious, and it's very arrogant to think anyone could ever truly understand them. For instance, saying that Cohen describes his own politics in songs from The Future. Sez who? Who says he wasn't writing about a character? Who's to say he wasn't after something merely euphonic? I dislike not only the idea of one person's interpretation, but these interpretations in particular because they strike me as facile and lazy. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.198.201.145 ( talk)
In the Music section, it states that "Everybody Knows" was on The Future, but in the Covers section, it states that it was on "I'm Your Man." I own The Future and it's not on that album. Can someone confirm which album it is on. - godospoons
Once again, the "covers" section is turning into a laundry list. There are easily 1,000 recorded versions of Cohen songs. We should only be mentioning those where at least one of the following applies:
I'm open to other rationales, but these are the ones I can see.
Can someone please explain why the following are notable enough to merit mention:
- Jmabel | Talk 06:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
A week has gone by. No defenses of any of them as meriting mention. Removing all. - Jmabel | Talk 07:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Folks: this isn't Wikiquote. I intend to do a major trim on the quotations. I suggest that any of these that are not on Wikiquote be copied there, because all presumably do merit inclusion there. I'll hold off for a week. - Jmabel | Talk 07:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
In the list of covers of Cohen songs:
I don't know these two recordings, but the song itself is not a Cohen song: his version is a cover. Are these two recordings in some specific sense covers of Cohen's performance of the song? If not, they should be deleted from the list. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:12, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
Cohen changed the words quite a bit, too. The original had words meaning "then we'll return to the shade"; but Cohen sings "then we'll come from the shadows". See for example www.leonardcohensite.com/partisanfr.htm, where someone says "Je suis tres intrigué par le fait suivant: le dernier vers de la version originale, "Nous rentrerons dans l'ombre" est "traduit" en "Then we'll come from the shadows", soit "Puis nous sortirons de l'Ombre", c'est à dire l'inverse du sens supposé de la version originale." But this of course only gives further evidence that Cohen is a supreme poet (and in effect God, going incognito to the masses).
-- Noetica 13:55, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The Partisan was NOT written by Cohen. It is a song written by and for the French Resistance Movement. It was written by Anna Marly and Emmanuel d'Astier in London 1942 and was a direct attack at the fascists. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.47.106.5 ( talk • contribs) 29 September 2006.
Isn't it a bit misleading to say (in the info panel at the top of the article) that Cohen has been active since 1967? The article introduces him as a poet, novelist, and songwriter; surely then we should say he has been active since 1956, the year when his first poetry collection was published. R Lowry 21:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The article cites that Lord of War used Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah, but to me it sounds more like John Cale's...I could be wrong, though, I don't have a copy of the film (and I only have Cale's version to compare it with anyway). Can anyone confirm if the version that appears in the film is really Buckley's? Archiesteel 15:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Cohen said in Poland today (on the radio of Trójka) that his family has roots in Poland and Eastern Europe at all. He feels as a Canadian with Jewish and Polish origin... So I will add him to Polish-Canadians category ;) Kowalmistrz 14:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it's a testament to Leonard Cohen to see so many people covering his songs...it's also an occasional problem on this page as the covers subsection sometimes becomes a laundry list...why not make another article for the covers (and include some of the less-known ones)? We could also add the tribute albums on there as well (since they're related). I propose to do it, I'll let everyone weigh in on it for a couple of days first. Archiesteel 01:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Image:Cohen Live.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 06:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Field Commander Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:More Best of Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 23:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenTenNewSongs.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenImYourMan.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:LeonardCohenDearHeather.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Leonard Cohen So Long Marianne.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 04:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:The Essential Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:The Best of Leonard Cohen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 07:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
The use of images not in compliance with our fair-use criteria or our policy on nonfree content is not appropriate, and the images have been removed. Please do not restore them. -- Merope 18:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
im sure it doesnt warrant specific mention in the main article(s) but cohen sure seems to mention drug use (presumaly heroin) in at least two of his earlier songs, 'stranger song' and 'the butcher'. any info? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.183.21.218 ( talk) 03:00, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
It strikes me that the 'Memorable Quotes' are completely subjective, and could include all of Leonard Cohen's writings if you get everyone's opinions. What, then, is the point? Tolo 18:01, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)
"Well, maybe there's a God above/ But all I've ever learned from love/ Was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya"—from "Hallelujah" (1984) <- This line is from Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah so I removed it from the quotations list.
"This line is from Jeff Buckley's version of Hallelujah so I removed it from the quotations" That line is actually from Cohen's 1988 version of Hallelujah. Buckley (and others) simply mixed verses from the 1984 and 1988 versions. The line is still Cohen's. Leatherwing 17:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Last week, Monsieur Camembert released the original cast recording of "Famous Blue Cheese - The Leonard Cohen Show". The album contains some of the most novel interpretations of Cohen songs ever recorded, and there are sound-samples at the following websites: http://www.myspace.com/monsieurcamembert http://www.myspace.com/mcfamousbluecheese
There is also a 2hr Cohen special recorded for ABC Radio in Australia, which contains 10 songs from the new album... You can listen for the next 2 weeks at... http://www.abc.net.au/rn/weekendplanet/stories/2007/1947823.htm To purchase the album, please visit... http://www.islandwebs.com.au/applications/search/search_result.asp?ItemID=762
Monsieurcamembert 08:23, 2 July 2007 (UTC)Cheers, Yaron Hallis
It is always a bad sign when the External links section needs subheadings for navigation. Can a knowledgeable editor do some radical pruning? Jkelly 21:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Not sure where to put this but the references #3 and #10 seem to be the same - #3 is a copy of the list at #10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.32.67.224 ( talk) 18:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
All spelling on this page should be in Canadian English, due to the fact that Cohen is Canadian. --Zippanova 05:31, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Renditions by other singers has once again become a long list of mostly not-too-notable cover versions. I've trimmed it before, I'm not doing it this time, but it should be done. Given that we link externally to a page that attempts to be comprehensive about this, it doesn't seem to accomplish anything to create a half-assed version of that page here.
I strongly suggest that the list be confined to:
This means dropping mentions of perfectly nice performers like The Dukhs, the Klezmer Conservatory Band, and Roy Buchanan. Again, someone else is being exhaustive, we don't have to. - Jmabel | Talk 17:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, can anyone please provide sources that prove that Leonard Cohen is vegetarian? Thanks. -- Amir E. Aharoni 06:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I hope I'm not bursting any bubbles here, but Leonard is not (currently) a vegetarian. Sandover 16:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
In the biographical film Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Leonard Cohen, Cohen implied that, at that time, 1965, he had stopped eating meet, which made him feel more honorable when, for example, he patted a dog. TRoethke ( talk) 14:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above statements in MUSIC about personal interpretations of Cohen's lyrics without quotes of him as evidence of his intentions when he wrote them. Peronally, I feel that this line, in 'Themes' is another example:
"Coming Back to you" and "If It Be Your Will" are clearly addressed to a Judeo-Christian God."
Now if there is a direct quote from LC confirming this, it should be included with that statement. If there isn't such a quote, this should be removed. Someone's personal interpretations of cryptic poetry being explained as 'clearly' meaning something, while other interpretations are just as possible should really be avoided. For one thing, both songs, but especially 'Coming back to you' could more simply be explained as a song about love for a woman. It's not as if LC is averse to writing about that topic either. Not to mention that lines like
"Even in your arms I know, I'll never get it right. Even when you bend to give me Comfort in the night"
sound more like love for a woman to me. Is it possible it's all metaphor for love for a personal god? Sure, but then a quote from him should be included to prove that. The reason I took the line out already is that the wiki article dedicated to the songs' album 'Various Positions', declares the 'Coming Back to You' an 'unusually straightforward love song'. Consistency would be better, I think. If anyone disagrees, or has any quotes proving this subjective POV, please let me know. ( ArcodH 16:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC))
If anyone wants to preserve any of the entries in this section, he should find a way to incorporate them into the main article as soon as possible. "Trivia sections are discouraged in Wikipedia", and this one is going soon. Grab what you value now. TheScotch ( talk) 05:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
content rather than its destruction. -- SSB ohio 17:11, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Re: "Is Cohen's place in popular culture trivial?":
The section title is obviously a euphemism for "trivia". Any explanation of Cohen's real place in culture, popular or other, (which of course would not involve a series of randomly arranged miscellaneous and unconnected entries) belongs in the main body of the article. TheScotch ( talk) 21:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Re: "I recommend that this effort be directed toward improving the content rather than its destruction.":
If you care to preserve any of the current entries, you will find a way to incorporate them into the main body of the article. Please do not add anything to this section; it's going to be deleted. TheScotch ( talk) 18:39, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I've taken the liberty of placing your remarks where they belong chronologically. Interpolating them into my remarks is tantamount to editing my remarks, which I've not given you permission to do.
Re: "I don't see a dismissive tone as at all helpful in this matter. At the very least, meet me halfway by admitting that my perspective is worthy as well, rather than disparaging the work of others and, by extension, denying that any view but your own should hold sway.":
1) You are not invited or welcome to critique my "tone" or anyone else's. 2) I am not obliged to meet you "halfway" where I think you are entirely wrong, and I call things the way I see them. 3) I'm not "disparaging" anyone or anyone's work here. 4) The "view" I've expressed is simply the official wikipedia "view".
Re: "I don't accept that the section is indefensible because you state it so. How and why is it indefensible? Further, anything that's pretty much doomed is not, in fact, doomed at all. In actuality, your response reinforces my point: that a thing's being discouraged is not the same as its being forbidden. A recommendation shouldn't be confused with a proscription. Even the {{ trivia}} template doesn't call for wholesale deletion.":
1) Notice my phrase "as a practical matter". It's indefensible because it will not withstand. This is the way of challenged trivia sections in wikipedia, and I'm speaking purely from experience. 2) I qualified "doomed" with "pretty much" to allow for the possibility that some trivia sections may have magically escaped, not to suggest that trivia sections ultimately inhabit some sort of limbo. "Pretty much" used in this way is a common figure of speech with which you may wish to acquaint yourself. 3) The template explains that entries (all entries) within a trivia section worth retaining should be incorporated into the main body of the article. Obviously, if all entries have either been incorporated or deleted, the section itself will be empty and a candidate for "wholesale deletion". Essentially, you are misreading the template.
Re: "To put it another way, suppose I took the opposite approach and vowed to keep the in popular culture section in the article. How would that be? Vowing to keep anything in or out of an article is counterproductive, since the content of any article is determined by consensus.":
1) Vow that if you like, but it won't do you any good. 2) I'm not vowing "to keep anything in or out of [the] article"; I'm merely vowing to (warning you that I'm about to) delete this section. If you're concerned about being "counterproductive", you'll find something else to do at wikipedia (or outside wikipedia) because this little war you're attempting to wage is a lost cause. 3) The "consensus" is that trivia sections don't belong in wikipedia.
Once again: if you think anything in the section is worth preserving, you will find a way to incorporate it into the main body of the article. Do it soon because the section is going. TheScotch ( talk) 04:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a portrait by Ines Zgonc, which does seem to capture how the guy is (or appears to be) at the moment. I suspect it will be controversial, being a painting rather than a "real image" (sic). Please could editors discuss it's merits rather than just remove it: the other most recent picture on the article is over 30 years old (and Ines's work is getting rather good). -- Simon Speed ( talk) 19:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
"His work often explores the themes of religion, isolation, sexuality, and complex interpersonal relationships. He is also black."
I presume this is a joke? I cant seem to edit this out though. Please, do so, or explain what you mean in sensical terms.
Thanks, Brock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.114.141.250 ( talk) 14:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Its been sorted. BrockFettes ( talk) 15:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
This new paragraph is total nonsense! His songs were NEVER banned, quite contrary, together with Dylan, his was very popular from very beginning. In former Yugoslavia, his early LPs were pressed by the local Columbia company (Suzy) and also imported. This complete sectionn is better to be removed, and Zembaty-phenomenon could be put somewhere else. As for Hungary, that's not verified. Also, complete tribute CD was also produced in Croatia (Ibrica Jusic) and the Czech Republic (Juraj Kukura), and songs were covered in Slovenia, Russia, etc. Croatian singer-songwriter/poet Arsen Dedic recorded trbute album in 1970s, but it was never released due to technical problems (4 songs resurfaced recenly from the studio, and apparently the mastertape was damaged after the sessions but before the release, so the project was abandoned as Dedic fell into depression, what's all referenced in various articles at Croatian Cohen site). Tomsak ( talk) 19:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
There was a really good interview (30 mins) on Radio 4's front row programme. This will be available for 7 days under the listen again feature. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/frontrow/past_programmes.shtml
There might be some useful information to be gleaned from this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.249.2.158 ( talk) 07:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I am reverting the insertion of the following material:
According to the BBC website Leonard Cohen has decided not to be recorded for TV or radio on his 2008 tour. It was indeed surprising that Cohen's set at Glastonbury (one of the major artists to perform there in recent years) was not broadcast live whilst many obscure bands were shown live on the BBC. [1] Many users on Youtube have uploaded his performance anyway. (Search youtube for multiple sources). In a controversial action fans are calling for a boycott of the tour DVD when it comes out.
Per WP:BLP, "Editors should remove any contentious material about living persons that is unsourced, relies upon sources that do not meet standards specified in Wikipedia:Verifiability, or is a conjectural interpretation of a source." The only source cited, the BBC, does support the first sentence of the disputed material, but none of the rest of it. Without any context, there is no reason to include the statement that he has decided not to be recorded for TV or radio during his tour. The rest of the material is completely unsourced, and must therefore be removed. Sarcasticidealist ( talk) 19:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I think the recent deletions should be restored in part. The renditions section really waited for one brave death stroke like User:Be Black Hole Sun's. But he removed with it some of the simple discography, as if the studio albums should somehow stand for the rest Cohen's releases too. The user who scrolls directly to what purports to be a discography now may remain ignorant of their existence altogether. His newly created separate discography page is detailed enough to merit preserving without presenting some items exclusively. Perhaps he has just not checked carefully what he removed.
I found the objection for listing tribute albums MOS:DISCOG#What_should_not_be_included here. I cannot understand it. They show an important level of notability and reception an artist has achieved and show how he inspired and whom. Of course, there is no need to make make trivia out of it, and the albums are not equally notable.
The Film section is not about his acting career, but about films he is affiliated with in various ways: singing performances, interviews, reading poetry, writing and narrating (I have seen none.) Again, some may be cleaned-up individually. I don't see how they are they less proper for our readership the basic discography. It will be useless to bother the readers with opening another page for this details, especially considering how few they are, but if it is decided they will migrate, their page should be created now, before they are lost under newer edits. Will Be Black Hole Sun volunteer? trespassers william ( talk) 21:20, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Join the rock music project today, it needs your help. -- Be Black Hole Sun ( talk) 08:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I found an excellent interview by Leonard Cohen about his songs and songwriting. It would provide a lot of information to add to the article. I included it also in the External Links for reference. I may come back later and see what can be developed from using it as a source. In the meantime, maybe someone else has more time now. For such an important person in the music world, his article could really use some more information.
Agadant ( talk) 17:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Removed the following which had been in the Titles and Honours section - is this in anyway significant, or just an attempt at publicity?
May be worth reinstating if the play ever tours or received some level of critical acclaim or popularity.
Dunxd ( talk) 11:24, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I'm quite sure that is Cale in Shrek. It's a slightly censored version of his recording; I can't now remember what they left out, but I remember that when I saw the movie I was thinking "what a wonderful recording to use here" and then found myself going, "that's not exactly how it went..." -- Jmabel | Talk 20:50, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
No, it's definetly Rufus Wainwright, according to the amazon page for the soundtrack album (and my own ears). Pyrop 21:29, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
Really? Damn, he is definitely covering Cale's arrangement then. It's note for note. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:59, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)
You're both right: the version in the movie is Cale, but the version on the soundtrack is Wainwright. If you search google for 'shrek soundtrack John Cale' you'll find several sites saying that. Tolo 10:45, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)
A winner at the 2009 Meteor Awards tonight! -- Candlewicke S T # :) 02:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Whoever wrote up the paragraph about this album in the music sub-section was clearly not a fan of the album. I don't know but unbacked claims like "The recording of the album was a complete fiasco" and "The end result is often thought gaudy and ostentatious, and Cohen's songwriting on this album is also thought to be some of his weakest" sound just a wee bit POV to me. Personally I love the album and the only reviews I've read of it have been overwhelmingly positive. That said, I know it was a controversial pair-up and was very much unlike anything Cohen had previously done or has done since. I've also read that Cohen himself didn't like the album but that still doesn't prove that it was "a complete fiasco" or "often thought gaudy and ostentatious." I'd like to see some sources for these comments or else I'm going to take them down. ... and I guess I forgot to sign this.-- Lairor 01:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
There are some developments that deserve mention I think. I think others more qualified should make the actual entries. I couldn't figure out how to add the album.
1. New CD and DVD albums have been released, "Leonard Cohen - Live in London", apparently his only live concert release. It was released in 2009 and was recorded live in a concert in the O2 Arena in London on July 17, 2008.
2. He is on a major world tour, "Leonard Cohen WORLD TOUR '09"
In the interests of completeness at least some mention should be made of his financial and legal difficulties. These problems are probably at least part of the reason he is on tour now. (Lucky for us.)
JFistere ( talk) 05:25, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this category is appropriate, since he never left Judaism. It's not really 'converting' if you keep your old religion. Zazaban ( talk) 05:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
See "Leonard Cohen: Several Lifetimes Already", Shambala Sun, and "On the Road, for Reasons Practical and Spiritual ", NY Times: “Well, for one thing, in the tradition of Zen that I’ve practiced, there is no prayerful worship and there is no affirmation of a deity. So theologically there is no challenge to any Jewish belief.” Hyacinth ( talk) 23:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Given that the advert template has recently been added to the article, I would like to hear from the person that added it which passages they think reflect an advertisement-like tone. If we can identify the problematic passages, we can work on correcting them. If I don't see any concrete suggestions here as to what needs fixing, we can remove the tag as unactionable in a day or so. -- Jayron 32 06:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
When I looked at this article today, the genres included Blues and World Music. For the life of me, I cannot see any connection between Cohen's music and Blues but the non-happy tone of a lot of the songs. But that's not what defines the music genre "Blues". Blues is a style involving the use of microtones and often involves certain basic chord sequences, neither of which are relevant to Cohen's work. World Music also seemed wrong. True, a few songs like Dance Me To The End Of Love have some ethnic instrumentation. But a few such touches scattered across five decades don't turn an artist into a World Music artist -- any more than the Beatles would be considered World Music because a couple of their songs contain a sitar and tablas. Accordingly, I edited the Genre area to eliminate those genres. If someone disagrees with me, let's discuss. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garyrob ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
LauriJean: yes he sort of sings in an interesting way... kind of ethereal and constipated and conversationally spooky...
but very very earnest 209.34.132.110 ([[User talk:|talk]]) 21:44, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
There are many Cohen's songs in the movie Kiss the Sky (film). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0127629/soundtrack ISasha ( talk) 07:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia article List of Scientologists claims Cohen was a scientologist. This article does not mention it. If it is true, it deserves mentioning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jirka6 ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
i'd like to see some sort of fact to support this claim - i can't see how this relates to AIDS or any other desease. as far as i knowm this line refers to Adam & Eve in the garden of Eden, as a symbol of religion (perhaps institutionalized religion). i.e. the religion is just a relic in everyday's life. something that's admired for is beauty but isn't taken seriously anymore. Pclz ( talk) 07:57, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Arnold the Frog ( talk) 13:46, 5 August 2010 (UTC) - apologies, tildes missing when I first posted The existing link to http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1970323 is broken (I can't find an archive for this site). A public statement can be found at http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/025/2009/en/4f6becdc-e532-4f64-a755-c598a6c16e91/mde150252009en.pdf This indeed says that "Amnesty International has taken no position on boycotts anywhere in the world", which is plainly intended to squash suggestions that AI supported a boycott. However, on the NGO question it says merely that the intention was to distribute money to benefit "the Parents Forum: Bereaved Parents for Peace and Reconciliation and other Israeli and Palestinian NGOs". I am unable to wrestle this statement, both positive and vague, into an explanation why Leonard Cohen's approach was rejected.
Much more relevant is the later sentence "Given the different requirements of AI's work and that of the Fund both have agreed that at this point AIUSA will withdraw from active involvement with the Fund." My own wild uninstructed guess is that Cohen is not demanding that Israel abandon the Occupied Territories, and that AI sees this as pussyfooting around the "real" issue, but is there any public documentation out there?
This article says about Kelley Lynch that "Back in 1988, she'd been working as an assistant to his then-manager, who died that year." Is the manager the article refers to John Hammond? Was he Cohen's manager? -- 217.232.173.115 ( talk) 21:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
The article claims that Leonard Cohen observes shabbat even when on tour. Yet, on Friday 17 September 2010, Leonard Cohen gave a concert (in Grenoble) while the sun had clearly set. A concert, for a professional performing artist, certainly counts as work. David.Monniaux ( talk) 20:03, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
"Companion of the Order of Canada, the nation's highest civilian honour" I was under the impression that the Order of Merit outranked the Order of Canada? For that matter I though that the Royal Victorian Order also outranked the Order of Canada? Threadnecromancer ( talk) 00:45, 20 April 2011 (UTC)Threadnecromancer
Why I am removing these:
Cite your source. Simply not true.
Jmabel | Talk 04:19, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Dr. Henry Kissinger, perhaps you've heard of him, he was prominent a while back. An honorary doctorate.
Dr. Bill Cosby, wrote about a cartoon show he voiced. An actual doctorate. Go figure.
Henry Kissinger received a PhD in International Relations from Harvard University in 1954 -- not an honorary one. http://www.nndb.com/people/357/000022291/
SilverHike ( talk) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm a fan of Cohen for over 30 years now. I love Leonard Cohen Files website and the Leonard Cohen Forum. However, those are 1) a fan site 2) an internet chat forum. Even if they enlist Leonard's cooperation, it's still a fan site run by one man (that we are very blessed to have on earth) and a chat room. I question their use as a reference in this biography, which they are extensively. The fan site itself says its material is fully referenced by other sources; those sources should be directly used if they meet WP:RS. Using a chat forum as a source for a BLP sets off all sorts of red flags. Sorry to be a bummer, but this is a BLP. There are many wonderful published biographies of Cohen; they should be used primarily. Other events like tours and current events related to Cohen can be sourced from WP:RS sources. Cookiehead ( talk) 00:14, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
The lead section for this article is too long and is a breach of WP:LEAD. It will need a strict copy edit and streamline if this article ever hopes to progress to GA status. -- Cassianto ( talk) 00:36, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
I think what Bruce Eder has to say about Leonard Cohen in the second paragraph is unnecessary. 134.226.56.7 ( talk) 12:37, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Cohen has lived in the US since the 70s or 80s, right? He's never become a US citizen and still identifies himself as "Canadian"? Laval ( talk) 22:21, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
"Hallelujia" was performed 3 times in the TV series "The O.C.". Twice by Jeff Buckley (1 Season, episodes 2 and 27), and once by Imogen Heap (season 3 episode 25). The song was used for the maximum emotional effect each time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.66.107.132 ( talk) 04:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Why does "hallelujah" merit is own section? It's just one of many songs. If it is widely regarded as his most influential song, and that is why the song has its own section here, then that needs to be made clear (and cited!). Also, this song's section is just a paired-down duplicate of that song's own page, so it seems redundant where a link could suffice. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.29.78.156 (
talk)
18:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand the value of the sentence "Almost every song that Cohen has written could be interpreted as being about love and/or sex".
First off the statement has no source, moreover it is unnecessarily vague, and finally it doesn't (to my ear) even ring true about Cohen's music. Leonard Cohen explored a wide variety of themes, some of which are detailed in this section, for instance "depression", "religion", "politics", and it seems to my ear that in many cases these other themes (and more still) play at least as central a role in any particular song as that of love. A song like "Dress Rehearsal Rag", as a small example, may have something to do with love, but it is easy to argue that love is simply not what the song "is about". In fact, a huge number of songs could be interpreted as being about something other than "love and /or sex". Politics, religion, culture; Cohen seems to have many themes at the center of his songs.
I basically think the sentence is a throw-away. Couldn't you say the same thing about any song by any artist? In a certain sense, sure, I suppose everything has something to do with love or sex. All of his music also has something to do with life, with feelings, with relationships, with struggle, and a huge variety of other themes. I think that it is misleading to readers to state that "love and/or sex" are his central themes. Unless Cohen said this himself, I think it would be best to remove this whole section.
71.83.54.82 ( talk) 20:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC) Brian Melanson
I think it's clear L. Cohen is a poet. " Spoken Word" is a somewhat slippery term which Wikipedia's editor have called subjective on its page. I think Poetry should be listed on Cohen's Genres listing. Overful ( talk) 12:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
The article says Songs of Leonard Cohen was released in 1968 at one point and then 1967 at another point. Which is correct? - Added by Patrice : The first album was issued in Dec. 1967
Neil from the young ones says, "No one ever listens to me, I may as well be a Leonard Cohen Record"
I have removed "He is now romantically involved (and working) with Anjani Thomas". I saw Cohen live in Auckland a couple of nights ago, and when introducing the singers he singled out Sharon Robinson saying something like she has become his permanent soulmate (not those exact words). I know this is not good enough to justify inclusion of that in Wiki, but the entry I removed re Ajani Thomas seems to be well and truly out of date. And it wasn't referenced anyway, desipite being tagged for moths.
Themes - previously the only information under themes, subheading religion, was extremely speculative regarding his "interest" in Scientology. Obviously Abrahamic religions are a much greater theme in his music. I removed this sentence unless a more complete explanation of his themes can be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C102:D4E0:3543:7B57:50A5:F1D0 ( talk) 19:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Before the article can be added to the WP Main Page, the missing citations need to be fixed. But looking them over, it seems they are almost all for trivial details. I'm suggesting we trim the trivia to remove most of the "citation needed" tags. They can be added back later if anyone wants to add a source. -- Light show ( talk) 05:41, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Kokomofred ( talk) 08:47, 11 November 2016 (UTC) date of death is 10 november not 7.
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
59.19.111.204 ( talk) 14:08, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
As a Canadian and a fan I am hoping we can clean this up. Wondering who is all here?.....and what needs to be done.
This is after a quick look...what do others see?-- Moxy ( talk) 18:57, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please correct the date of death - it is November 10th, not November 7th. Thank you :)
193.134.187.20 ( talk) 11:31, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Date of death November 10, 2016Cite error: A <ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).</ref>
209.197.145.84 ( talk) 21:40, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Is this removal really an improvement?
There are few North American writers, even including the large East coast Jewish coterie, who are so obviously influenced throughout their career by their Jewish origins and cultural background. Of course this belongs in the lead. Andy Dingley ( talk) 13:07, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Boson that putting the word "Jewish" in the first sentence oversimplifies a complex thing. Jonathunder ( talk) 04:17, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
At the moment there is no reliable source for the date of death. Indeed Rolling Stone source [9] specifically says that no date was given. This suggests it was Monday, but we need a proper source for it.-- Slp1 ( talk) 04:36, 11 November 2016 (UTC).
This
edit request to
Leonard Cohen has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
122.58.51.235 ( talk) 02:31, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
There are two ways to make a bio unreadable, IMO. One is by not writing it. Another is by writing it but smothering it in trivia, such as this:
The Fall leg of the European tour started in early September with an open-air show in Florence, Italy, and continued through Germany, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, and Austria, where Cohen performed at the open-air opera stage of Römersteinbruch bei St. Margarethen im Burgenland, and then continued with dates in France, Poland, Russia (Moscow's State Kremlin Palace), Slovenia and Slovakia. Cohen's last European show was held in Sibamac Arena, in Bratislava, Slovakia. The shows in late September and October were performed without Sharon Robinson, who left this tour leg due to severe illness; the setlist omitted songs co-written by her, but old Cohen standards were added instead. citation needed
Most of the similar trivia about albums, their producers, tours, lists of cities and arenas, precise dates, what was sold at the snack bars, the weather report for that day, the exact number of people that showed up, etc., can be removed, tightened, or placed in notes, if noteworthy. This is a biography, not a concertology. Some serious trimming by editors would help this still 105KB article. -- Light show ( talk) 21:18, 12 November 2016 (UTC)