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I cleaned this up both grammatically and doctrinally. It still needs to more overtly say that the Law of Chastity is a concept and not a semantic policy somewhere. Mrcolj 16:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I am removing the "like a plague" as if trying to avoid pornography is unusual for a religion to teach
I've requested a citation for the dubious statement that nudism is prohibited by the law of chastity. If none is forthcoming, it may be deleted. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
What about "do you wear the temple garment day and night, as instructed..." etc. ? To me, that seems to impliedly reject it.
Also note that the statement in question was placed in the subsection called "Broader law of chastity as taught by church leaders". It's possible a church leader has taught against it and a citation exists. That doesn't necessarily mean it is an "official doctrine" or one to which a penalty attaches. And if it has been taught, but only in the past, that may be nonetheless worth mentioning. That being said, I would only give the editor a day or so to provide a citation since I've notified him/her directly on the user talk page. You can remove the statement soon if you wish and I won't object. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 08:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Hm, yes. I just thought "nudism" suggested that you are naked close to 100% of the time. It's a bit of a stretch to suggest that a person could legitimately feel they were wearing the garment "as instructed" "day and night" if they are almost always naked. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 21:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I see what you are saying now. I was interpreting it as a lifestyle choice as discussed in Nudism. But no, if it's a mere suggestion that a person can't be nude, I find that ridiculous and definitely not part of the LDS law of chastity. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 21:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of facts (marked and unmarked) that need substantiation. A number of them offer an apparent wp:POV that without support need to be modified. For example, to assert that "chastity is considered by many... to be more important than a person's life" based on the non-doctrinal statement by a prophet is certainly not factual nor supported. In another instance, to say that the "stress of avoiding sexuality, pornography and unchaste thoughts has resulted in several Mormon youths getting married after very brief courtships and sometimes no courtships at all" without substantiation offers a unsupported POV. These and other facts need to be edited so they are less absolute and more representative, or just removed completely. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 06:57, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Is the material covered here so very different from what is or should be covered in Chastity#In Abrahamic religions? If this article is to stay, it should at least link to the more generic chastity article, and probably deserves a mention on the chastity (disambiguation) page. I don't want to opinionate just yet on the possible merge, but I do want to get a little conversation going to see what people think about it. At the moment I do slightly lean towards a merge. --...but what do you think? ~ B F izz ( talk) 06:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
It's a stretch to include information about criticism of the LDS Church's stand on chastity and link this to California's Proposition 8. The tone and unsourced statements found in that section of content suggests someone with an overt POV. The phrase "Legal critics are concerned by the LDS stance against homosexuality and their open advocation of Proposition 8 in California" is unsubstantiated and unless a source can be found, should be removed. The quote afterward is specifically about Proposition 8 and not chastity and does not belong. Unless someone can offer substantive reasons not to make these changes, I will do so in a few days. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 18:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The statement "Medically the church has been criticized for its intolerance of masturbation and its use of incorrect information to advocate such intolerance" is sourced using a site that is first, a self-published site, like a blog, which does not meet WP standards, to wit:
"...self-published media, whether ... personal websites ... are largely not acceptable."
Second, a quick scan of the content found on the source web site shows that the author is obviously anti-LDS and not objective, again violating WP standards.
"Articles should be based upon reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy."
Since the source does not meet WP standards, both it and the statement about the church's "intolerance of masturbation" should be removed. I will do so in a few days unless someone can provide another source. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 19:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The quote about fewer brides and grooms finishing college was concluded by the statement, "They imply that 'Mormon norms' are responsible for this trouble with college completion." However, the authors draw no such conclusion. The exact context is:
Because they did not make any connection between any Mormon norms (i.e., the Law of Chastity), except that Mormon youth use BYU as a dating scene and tend to marry early, the statement that the authors implied a connection between graduation rates and chastity becomes original research, which violates WP standards. I have removed the statement and the source as being unsubstantiated. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 05:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The article contains a statement that needs to be substantiated or removed:
The "many Protestant religions" who "are harshly critical" are unidentified. If they are in fact "harshly critical," then there certainly ought to be some published sources. At this point the criticism is speculative and unsourced, resulting in original research.
The next statement about plural marriage from Nichol's book apparently attempts to identify polygamy as the key source for the Protestant religions' criticism. In context, this quote (page 10 of the book) is referring to the early settlement of the Salt Lake Valley.
So while this difference may have been true in the 19th century, I don't see what it has to do with any criticism of the Law of Chastity today. Can anyone explain? -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 06:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The following quote in the lead paragraph states:
First, I have certainly seen and can readily find support for denial of church membership or fellowship based on acts of adultery or fornication, but am unable to find any reports of instances where individuals were disciplined for "masturbation or sexually inappropriate thoughts." Can anyone help here? Otherwise I think the statement should be amended to exclude "masturbation or sexually inappropriate thoughts."
Secondly, the phrase "in good standing" is ambiguous. By what standard is this evaluated? Who is evaluating the individual's behavior? I think this ought to be rephrased, perhaps as, "Individuals who engage in <specific acts> are subject to formal church discipline, which may result in disfellowshipping or excommunication."
-- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 00:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
In general, I like the changes to the lede section. However, it is fairly circular, and could use some balance. Just noting it here, in case anyone feels like discussing. tedder ( talk) 05:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This is not to say my interest in this and other articles focusing on the LDS church is waning, but I have no intention to "influence" the article any further. My additions to the article were only to thicken the relevance as there was a moment when it was suggested a merge with the general protestant or religious idea of chastity, witch the Law of Chastity is not. The unfortunate reality of wikipedia articles and information on the church in general is that there are only three interested parties, four if you distinguish between secular and religious anti-mormons witch I do not. Namely LDS members, ex-mormons/people being urged to join by Missionaries, and Anti-mormons. All of these parties with exception of SOME ex-mormons/people being urged to join are intensely biased about any LDS information. For example, facts about the temple ceremony are offensive to LDS members and are often removed, subverted or distorted by the LDS church members while facts about the population of the church and history of LDS prosecution are often attacked by Anit-mormons or given new, fringe theory spins. In general ex-mormons and people being encouraged to join have very little information besides personal experiences and are little help. Beyond Mark Twain and a few other semi-interested but not actively engaged people, the LDS religion is both too outlandish and too mundane to get anyone outside the bubble of its insistant importance to care about it. So in my opinion, it is best to "agree to disagree". There is a conflict of interest of course, Anit-mormons want no positive mention in any of these articles and want a lot of non-topic information to paint the general picture of a mind/money cult. LDS leaders and some members would perfer as little information as possible in any mormon articles except for what is considered important as an indoctrination concept (In this article for example there seems to be a lot of downplay about the LDS war against masturbation witch seems fine to mention within the church but is innapropriate to tell people interested in the church about this until they are well on their way to membership.) Both the LDS and the Anti-mormons are being disingenuous of course, the first are cutting all information they deem antagonistic to their prostelyting efforts regardless of the validity and how these conceps are actually presented within the church, and the former are trying to broaden the scope of every article to include rediculous fringe theories and outlandish accusations. One to make the church look good and one to make the chuch look bad. But beyond what the LDS church is (be it the one true church or a dangerous theocratic cult) first it exists. That is there are facts about it that while may not make the church seem "normal" enough for the LDS and at the same time make the church sound too "normal" for the Anti-mormons, are still facts none the less. I propose, especially for this particular article as I do not wish to be a watchdog on it anymore, that we stick to the facts. Specifically, what warrants the difference between chastity as a Christian concept and the Law of Chastity as an important concept to one specific Christian religion. How does the Law affect LDS members (children, adults, LDS leaders) and the rest of the world (Civil Rights, Women, Homosexuals) differently from the general protestant idea of chastity. Finally, what are the criticisms and praise for the LDS effort to enforce the law of chastity within and without the church? My proposal (feel free to agree/disagree)
If anything I really want to point out that the unique views on homosexuality and masturbation (most churches do not encourage homosexuals to even be members and most protestant religions have no opinion on masturbation) the LDS have and a keeping of the criticizm section. No more "nuking" the crit sections because it personally offends. The critics have to have legitimiacy of course, have to be sourced, but I strongly feel there should be a crit section. This is not the LDS church's private soapbox. This is a source for supposedly NPOV information. Critics do have specific things to say about the Law of Chastity, it has been adressed and it is important to them. Blanking the section is just taking advantage of the general disintrest of people when it comes to LDS dogma. I hope somehow that LDS editors can at least see that people seeking to understand the church need information such as this. That is all I have to say, sorry for spelling errors. I will probably no longer participate in this article, but I hope that fairness can shape it into something better in time.(Not logged in, but I'm Sanitycult) 173.28.190.80 ( talk) 09:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This section previously had more content on masturbation, which was removed because it was unsourced. I'm going to change the title. Additionally, the quote attributed to Spencer Kimball says that individuals should "force himself to return to normal pursuits and actions and friendships with the opposite sex." He did not specifically say marriage and to say so is to put words in his mouth. His comments can reasonably stand by themselves without stretching their meaning into new realms. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 02:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
As I wrote about the "Law of Chastity and Proposition 8" above,
To amplify, the source cited for the quote about criticism by the ACLU is a personal blog, which although published on the ACLU domain, does not appear to meet WP standards, to wit:
The WP standard for blogs includes an exception for newspapers who publish "interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." The ACLU obviously does not qualify as a newspaper.
Second, a quick scan of the content found on the source blog shows that the author is obviously not an objective third-party source, again violating WP standards:
The emphasis is on citing reliable sources for facts, not personal opinion, which a blog certainly is. Since the source does not meet WP standards, both it and the statement about the quote about Proposition 8 should be removed.
The thread connecting the blog author's opinion on Proposition 8 and Mormons/Knights of Columbus and the law of chasity is non-existant. Neither the quote from the ACLU blog nor the entire entry make any connection to the Law of Chastity or any "moral code" or anything like unto it. To insert this quote about Proposition 8 from a blog into this article on the law of chastity requires one to fabricate a connection, which constitutes original research.
Finally, the section on the ACLU quote is finished with the following statement:
This statement is obviously someone's point of view, when the statement should be neutral. The statement then becomes original research
I'm sure there is valid criticism of the law of chastity, but this particular criticism does not meet WP's standards for sources, standards, or POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Btphelps ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The phrase/statement about a "law" of chastity has been so termed by the Catholic church as well (as per here, and certainly other places). This article could, and should be broadened and not necessarily so single-church specific, imo. Zanlok ( talk) 05:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Re: the synopsis of the church's views on homosexuality at the bottom of the article, the church's official stance on homosexuals is quite obviously relevant in an article on the Law of Chastity, a creed/document that specifically governs Mormon beliefs on homosexuality. Presumably, any change in official church policy re: homosexuality is governed by a new interpretation of the church's sacred texts--the Law of Chastity being chief among them on this particular topic. If there is going to be a section on homosexuality in this article at all, and if church officials are accepted as being the most accurate source of official policy in the Mormon church, a properly balanced presentation of facts should include the most recent statements from church officials on this topic.
User:ChristensenMJ has removed these updated facts re: official church policy several times and insists on citing to a pamphlet published in 2007 to explain the church's opinions on homosexuality. However, not only is it self-evident that a official statement announced in 2015 supersedes an unofficial pamphlet published in 2007, but his/her continued removal of the most current policy statements seems designed to promote a PR-friendly-yet-inaccurate pro-church image of inclusion for homosexuals which clearly no longer exists (if it ever did).
These statements are well-sourced given that church officials unequivocally affirmed their official opinion of homosexuality in public statements made in 2015. [1] The statements may also be verified by cross-referencing the LDS Handbook as updated in November 2015. [2]
Proposed additional text:
In 2015, the church officially announced that it views those engaging in homosexual relationships as "apostates." [20] In addition to classifying same-sex couples as “apostates,” the church’s new policy bars children of those couples—either adopted or biological—from being baptized, confirmed, ordained and participating in mission service without the permission of church leaders.[21] Upon reaching age 18, the children of same-sex couples may only become full members of the church if they "specifically disavow the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage" and "[do] not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage." [22]
Proposed edited (existing) text:
LGBT members of the church are expected to obey the same laws as heterosexual members, including controlling thoughts and not arousing sexual feelings outside of marriage. However, the church actively opposes the extension of the traditional definition of marriage to also include same-sex couples.[23] In 2007, the church produced "God Loveth His Children", a pamphlet whose stated purpose is to help LGBT members. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.5.144.42 ( talk) 15:29, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Law of chastity article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This page is not a forum for general discussion about personal beliefs, nor for engaging in Apologetics/ Polemics. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about personal beliefs, nor for engaging in Apologetics/ Polemics at the Reference desk. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
I cleaned this up both grammatically and doctrinally. It still needs to more overtly say that the Law of Chastity is a concept and not a semantic policy somewhere. Mrcolj 16:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I am removing the "like a plague" as if trying to avoid pornography is unusual for a religion to teach
I've requested a citation for the dubious statement that nudism is prohibited by the law of chastity. If none is forthcoming, it may be deleted. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
What about "do you wear the temple garment day and night, as instructed..." etc. ? To me, that seems to impliedly reject it.
Also note that the statement in question was placed in the subsection called "Broader law of chastity as taught by church leaders". It's possible a church leader has taught against it and a citation exists. That doesn't necessarily mean it is an "official doctrine" or one to which a penalty attaches. And if it has been taught, but only in the past, that may be nonetheless worth mentioning. That being said, I would only give the editor a day or so to provide a citation since I've notified him/her directly on the user talk page. You can remove the statement soon if you wish and I won't object. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 08:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Hm, yes. I just thought "nudism" suggested that you are naked close to 100% of the time. It's a bit of a stretch to suggest that a person could legitimately feel they were wearing the garment "as instructed" "day and night" if they are almost always naked. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 21:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I see what you are saying now. I was interpreting it as a lifestyle choice as discussed in Nudism. But no, if it's a mere suggestion that a person can't be nude, I find that ridiculous and definitely not part of the LDS law of chastity. Rich Uncle Skeleton (talk) 21:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of facts (marked and unmarked) that need substantiation. A number of them offer an apparent wp:POV that without support need to be modified. For example, to assert that "chastity is considered by many... to be more important than a person's life" based on the non-doctrinal statement by a prophet is certainly not factual nor supported. In another instance, to say that the "stress of avoiding sexuality, pornography and unchaste thoughts has resulted in several Mormon youths getting married after very brief courtships and sometimes no courtships at all" without substantiation offers a unsupported POV. These and other facts need to be edited so they are less absolute and more representative, or just removed completely. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 06:57, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Is the material covered here so very different from what is or should be covered in Chastity#In Abrahamic religions? If this article is to stay, it should at least link to the more generic chastity article, and probably deserves a mention on the chastity (disambiguation) page. I don't want to opinionate just yet on the possible merge, but I do want to get a little conversation going to see what people think about it. At the moment I do slightly lean towards a merge. --...but what do you think? ~ B F izz ( talk) 06:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
It's a stretch to include information about criticism of the LDS Church's stand on chastity and link this to California's Proposition 8. The tone and unsourced statements found in that section of content suggests someone with an overt POV. The phrase "Legal critics are concerned by the LDS stance against homosexuality and their open advocation of Proposition 8 in California" is unsubstantiated and unless a source can be found, should be removed. The quote afterward is specifically about Proposition 8 and not chastity and does not belong. Unless someone can offer substantive reasons not to make these changes, I will do so in a few days. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 18:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The statement "Medically the church has been criticized for its intolerance of masturbation and its use of incorrect information to advocate such intolerance" is sourced using a site that is first, a self-published site, like a blog, which does not meet WP standards, to wit:
"...self-published media, whether ... personal websites ... are largely not acceptable."
Second, a quick scan of the content found on the source web site shows that the author is obviously anti-LDS and not objective, again violating WP standards.
"Articles should be based upon reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy."
Since the source does not meet WP standards, both it and the statement about the church's "intolerance of masturbation" should be removed. I will do so in a few days unless someone can provide another source. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 19:08, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
The quote about fewer brides and grooms finishing college was concluded by the statement, "They imply that 'Mormon norms' are responsible for this trouble with college completion." However, the authors draw no such conclusion. The exact context is:
Because they did not make any connection between any Mormon norms (i.e., the Law of Chastity), except that Mormon youth use BYU as a dating scene and tend to marry early, the statement that the authors implied a connection between graduation rates and chastity becomes original research, which violates WP standards. I have removed the statement and the source as being unsubstantiated. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 05:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The article contains a statement that needs to be substantiated or removed:
The "many Protestant religions" who "are harshly critical" are unidentified. If they are in fact "harshly critical," then there certainly ought to be some published sources. At this point the criticism is speculative and unsourced, resulting in original research.
The next statement about plural marriage from Nichol's book apparently attempts to identify polygamy as the key source for the Protestant religions' criticism. In context, this quote (page 10 of the book) is referring to the early settlement of the Salt Lake Valley.
So while this difference may have been true in the 19th century, I don't see what it has to do with any criticism of the Law of Chastity today. Can anyone explain? -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 06:03, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The following quote in the lead paragraph states:
First, I have certainly seen and can readily find support for denial of church membership or fellowship based on acts of adultery or fornication, but am unable to find any reports of instances where individuals were disciplined for "masturbation or sexually inappropriate thoughts." Can anyone help here? Otherwise I think the statement should be amended to exclude "masturbation or sexually inappropriate thoughts."
Secondly, the phrase "in good standing" is ambiguous. By what standard is this evaluated? Who is evaluating the individual's behavior? I think this ought to be rephrased, perhaps as, "Individuals who engage in <specific acts> are subject to formal church discipline, which may result in disfellowshipping or excommunication."
-- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 00:15, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
In general, I like the changes to the lede section. However, it is fairly circular, and could use some balance. Just noting it here, in case anyone feels like discussing. tedder ( talk) 05:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This is not to say my interest in this and other articles focusing on the LDS church is waning, but I have no intention to "influence" the article any further. My additions to the article were only to thicken the relevance as there was a moment when it was suggested a merge with the general protestant or religious idea of chastity, witch the Law of Chastity is not. The unfortunate reality of wikipedia articles and information on the church in general is that there are only three interested parties, four if you distinguish between secular and religious anti-mormons witch I do not. Namely LDS members, ex-mormons/people being urged to join by Missionaries, and Anti-mormons. All of these parties with exception of SOME ex-mormons/people being urged to join are intensely biased about any LDS information. For example, facts about the temple ceremony are offensive to LDS members and are often removed, subverted or distorted by the LDS church members while facts about the population of the church and history of LDS prosecution are often attacked by Anit-mormons or given new, fringe theory spins. In general ex-mormons and people being encouraged to join have very little information besides personal experiences and are little help. Beyond Mark Twain and a few other semi-interested but not actively engaged people, the LDS religion is both too outlandish and too mundane to get anyone outside the bubble of its insistant importance to care about it. So in my opinion, it is best to "agree to disagree". There is a conflict of interest of course, Anit-mormons want no positive mention in any of these articles and want a lot of non-topic information to paint the general picture of a mind/money cult. LDS leaders and some members would perfer as little information as possible in any mormon articles except for what is considered important as an indoctrination concept (In this article for example there seems to be a lot of downplay about the LDS war against masturbation witch seems fine to mention within the church but is innapropriate to tell people interested in the church about this until they are well on their way to membership.) Both the LDS and the Anti-mormons are being disingenuous of course, the first are cutting all information they deem antagonistic to their prostelyting efforts regardless of the validity and how these conceps are actually presented within the church, and the former are trying to broaden the scope of every article to include rediculous fringe theories and outlandish accusations. One to make the church look good and one to make the chuch look bad. But beyond what the LDS church is (be it the one true church or a dangerous theocratic cult) first it exists. That is there are facts about it that while may not make the church seem "normal" enough for the LDS and at the same time make the church sound too "normal" for the Anti-mormons, are still facts none the less. I propose, especially for this particular article as I do not wish to be a watchdog on it anymore, that we stick to the facts. Specifically, what warrants the difference between chastity as a Christian concept and the Law of Chastity as an important concept to one specific Christian religion. How does the Law affect LDS members (children, adults, LDS leaders) and the rest of the world (Civil Rights, Women, Homosexuals) differently from the general protestant idea of chastity. Finally, what are the criticisms and praise for the LDS effort to enforce the law of chastity within and without the church? My proposal (feel free to agree/disagree)
If anything I really want to point out that the unique views on homosexuality and masturbation (most churches do not encourage homosexuals to even be members and most protestant religions have no opinion on masturbation) the LDS have and a keeping of the criticizm section. No more "nuking" the crit sections because it personally offends. The critics have to have legitimiacy of course, have to be sourced, but I strongly feel there should be a crit section. This is not the LDS church's private soapbox. This is a source for supposedly NPOV information. Critics do have specific things to say about the Law of Chastity, it has been adressed and it is important to them. Blanking the section is just taking advantage of the general disintrest of people when it comes to LDS dogma. I hope somehow that LDS editors can at least see that people seeking to understand the church need information such as this. That is all I have to say, sorry for spelling errors. I will probably no longer participate in this article, but I hope that fairness can shape it into something better in time.(Not logged in, but I'm Sanitycult) 173.28.190.80 ( talk) 09:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This section previously had more content on masturbation, which was removed because it was unsourced. I'm going to change the title. Additionally, the quote attributed to Spencer Kimball says that individuals should "force himself to return to normal pursuits and actions and friendships with the opposite sex." He did not specifically say marriage and to say so is to put words in his mouth. His comments can reasonably stand by themselves without stretching their meaning into new realms. -- btphelps ( talk) ( contribs) 02:08, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
As I wrote about the "Law of Chastity and Proposition 8" above,
To amplify, the source cited for the quote about criticism by the ACLU is a personal blog, which although published on the ACLU domain, does not appear to meet WP standards, to wit:
The WP standard for blogs includes an exception for newspapers who publish "interactive columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control." The ACLU obviously does not qualify as a newspaper.
Second, a quick scan of the content found on the source blog shows that the author is obviously not an objective third-party source, again violating WP standards:
The emphasis is on citing reliable sources for facts, not personal opinion, which a blog certainly is. Since the source does not meet WP standards, both it and the statement about the quote about Proposition 8 should be removed.
The thread connecting the blog author's opinion on Proposition 8 and Mormons/Knights of Columbus and the law of chasity is non-existant. Neither the quote from the ACLU blog nor the entire entry make any connection to the Law of Chastity or any "moral code" or anything like unto it. To insert this quote about Proposition 8 from a blog into this article on the law of chastity requires one to fabricate a connection, which constitutes original research.
Finally, the section on the ACLU quote is finished with the following statement:
This statement is obviously someone's point of view, when the statement should be neutral. The statement then becomes original research
I'm sure there is valid criticism of the law of chastity, but this particular criticism does not meet WP's standards for sources, standards, or POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Btphelps ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The phrase/statement about a "law" of chastity has been so termed by the Catholic church as well (as per here, and certainly other places). This article could, and should be broadened and not necessarily so single-church specific, imo. Zanlok ( talk) 05:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Re: the synopsis of the church's views on homosexuality at the bottom of the article, the church's official stance on homosexuals is quite obviously relevant in an article on the Law of Chastity, a creed/document that specifically governs Mormon beliefs on homosexuality. Presumably, any change in official church policy re: homosexuality is governed by a new interpretation of the church's sacred texts--the Law of Chastity being chief among them on this particular topic. If there is going to be a section on homosexuality in this article at all, and if church officials are accepted as being the most accurate source of official policy in the Mormon church, a properly balanced presentation of facts should include the most recent statements from church officials on this topic.
User:ChristensenMJ has removed these updated facts re: official church policy several times and insists on citing to a pamphlet published in 2007 to explain the church's opinions on homosexuality. However, not only is it self-evident that a official statement announced in 2015 supersedes an unofficial pamphlet published in 2007, but his/her continued removal of the most current policy statements seems designed to promote a PR-friendly-yet-inaccurate pro-church image of inclusion for homosexuals which clearly no longer exists (if it ever did).
These statements are well-sourced given that church officials unequivocally affirmed their official opinion of homosexuality in public statements made in 2015. [1] The statements may also be verified by cross-referencing the LDS Handbook as updated in November 2015. [2]
Proposed additional text:
In 2015, the church officially announced that it views those engaging in homosexual relationships as "apostates." [20] In addition to classifying same-sex couples as “apostates,” the church’s new policy bars children of those couples—either adopted or biological—from being baptized, confirmed, ordained and participating in mission service without the permission of church leaders.[21] Upon reaching age 18, the children of same-sex couples may only become full members of the church if they "specifically disavow the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage" and "[do] not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage." [22]
Proposed edited (existing) text:
LGBT members of the church are expected to obey the same laws as heterosexual members, including controlling thoughts and not arousing sexual feelings outside of marriage. However, the church actively opposes the extension of the traditional definition of marriage to also include same-sex couples.[23] In 2007, the church produced "God Loveth His Children", a pamphlet whose stated purpose is to help LGBT members. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.5.144.42 ( talk) 15:29, 14 June 2016 (UTC)
References