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Today has seen a miniature editing war between two camps: one claiming Lauren Southern promoted the White Genocide theory, and one that claims the opposite. Just looking at the sources provided by the former camp, they don't seem to support the claim very well. Source [95] merely says Lauren Southern "plays up" to the narrative. Source [96], besides seemingly being an unreliable source, does say Southern promotes the theory but does not give any explanation. In fact, the article only claims she is known for promoting the theory in their description of Southern. [97] does again claim Southern supports the theory, but does not say where she has said such things. In source [98] they merely claim Southern has said the farm murders in South Africa could be what leads up to a genocide - that doesn't promote any theory about ongoing genocide, nor does it promote anything but the idea there is a risk for genocide against white South Africans. That can hardly be called "promoting the white genocide theory". All in all I think the sources are at most a mixed bag with either no such claim being made, or at most an unsupported claim being made that Southern promotes the theory. I therefore do not believe that Wikipedia should make any statements of fact such as "Southern has promoted the white genocide conspiracy theory" until direct and conclusive proof can be shown. Zuurman1 ( talk) 20:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Southern's documentary promotes the same "White Genocide" narrative that is promoted by Afriforum. Here is a non-exhaustive list of sources explaining this:
Southern made a film about “white genocide” in South Africa, a conspiracy theory that was picked up by Tucker Carlson on Fox News and led President Trump to tweet about the subject
Southern’s treatment of this subject is selective, lurid, and plays up to the long-established far right meta-narrative of “white genocide”.
"White Genocide In South Africa" has become the meme de nos jours in hard-right circles... Within weeks of each other, hard-right commentators Lauren Southern and Katie Hopkins both turned up in South Africa, to make parallel documentaries unpacking the fictional tragedy for their audiences...The spark for both of their trips, and indeed for the entire meme, can be traced to an organisation called Suidlanders
Pundits have picked up AfriForum’s message, some going as far as to label the farm attacks a genocide. “If it continues, I fear there is going to be the beginning stages of what many would call genocide,” the Canadian far-right political commentator Lauren Southern said on the Breitbart News Sunday podcast.
Following this awareness campaign, alt-right and conservative media personalities such as Lauren Southern and Katie Hopkins have come to South Africa to report on the supposed dangers faced by white South Africans.
AfriForum has been incredibly effective at spreading its propaganda, particularly online....Lauren Southern with the European alt-right group Identity Evropa made a documentary about the subject
So why these rumors of an uprising against whites in South Africa now?... I’ve been receiving emails for a year or two now from anxious friends abroad about tidbits they’ve read about growing anger towards white people here—mostly in the U.K. tabloid press or on the Twitter feeds of the Canadian right-wing provocateurs Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux.
white supremacists across the world have been raising a false alarm about it for more than a decade, and the fear that black Africans will violently rise up against whites has been a far-right trope since shortly after World War II. ...in June [2018], Lauren Southern, a far-right Canadian “citizen journalist,” debuted a professional-looking documentary about the subject to her followers
There's no sensible question here. Nblund talk 22:24, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
~
FWIW, a few relevant reports that may be of interest to editors here:
Bennv3771 ( talk) 12:21, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
All this original research as to whether this "genocide" (sic) is happening or not is all well and good but as far as the article is concerned, who cares? At the end of the day all that matters is whether sources call it a conspiracy theory (they do) and whether they note Southern promotes it (they do). Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:28, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I have removed this and this source from the article. The sentence (which is worded well and I do not disagree with) suggests that the sources claim Southern is a proponent of the white genocide theory, but the former source is unreliable and the latter does not support the claim made in the sentence. The other two sources are fine and I see no further reason to alter the sentence. Zuurman1 ( talk) 16:45, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
@
Bradv: I was not removing content just because I don't like it (I apologise if I can across that way), I explained my reasoning. I admit I was wrong about the references' reliability (sorry for that) but I was arguing for the article to be concise as it seems needlessly inflammatory.
Gareth1893 (
talk) 20:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
An edit I started before I got the notification from
Bradv (hence why I haven't undone it) was undone with the sole reason being " I don't see why this should be removed"(@
Doug Weller:). This is a clear example of removing content because someone doesn't like it. I haven't undone it because I don't want to be banned for edit warring but explanations should be given when changes are made.
Gareth1893 (
talk)
20:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Is there a reference for Richard Spencer, "who had said "Hail Trump" in a speech at a white nationalist gathering, and had called for a "peaceful" ethnic cleansing of America"? Gareth1893 ( talk) 17:12, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
This source is a prime example of a self published source. Core content policy says we do not use self published sources as sources for content on BLP's. This is consistent with what is in WP: RSP since it could potentially be used as a source on non-blp articles. However, it still can't be used as a source here. -- Kyohyi ( talk) 19:24, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Kyohyi, I have of course read the entire note; I am saying that the opening sentence of the note is supported neither by the sources cited in the note nor by the WP policy consensus. And your position about advocacy groups has, as I understand it, consistently failed to achieve consensus at RfC so I am uncertain why you are pushing that PoV here. Newimpartial ( talk) 19:39, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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FAR RIGHT??? libelous and wrong
LAUREN IS A CONSERVATIVE NOT fAR-RIGHT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.130.141 ( talk) 23:46, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
188.30.159.250 ( talk) 13:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
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current version
In November 2018, Southern released a video showing an Advocates Abroad worker apparently encouraging fraud by migrants at Moria, Lesbos by lying to the European Asylum Support Office. Advocates Abroad denied the veracity of the video. Buzzfeed News reported that a UNHCR spokesperson said, "Greece has rigorous asylum procedures in place, within a robust legal framework." [1]
suggested version
In November 2018, Southern released a video showing an Advocates Abroad worker apparently encouraging fraud by migrants at Moria, Lesbos by lying to the European Asylum Support Office. Advocates Abroad denied the veracity of the video. Buzzfeed News reported that a UNHCR spokesperson said, "Greece has rigorous asylum procedures in place, within a robust legal framework." [2] In May 2019, Southern released documentary called Borderless about the migrant crisis and its consequences.
reference - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10384606/ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_fz9EW5Iw Byk7 ( talk) 19:28, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, but I still suggest to have the link there, since it's available for free. Maybe like this?
In May 2019, Southern released a documentary about the migrant crisis and its consequences called Borderless. The documentary was removed from Youtube [3], but it was reuploaded soon. [4]
References
https://laurensouthern.net/a-new-chapter/ She is done with political commentary, documentary making, and all use of social media. States that she is returning to university in hopes of completing her undergraduate, and graduate degrees, and that, "maybe you’ll read my name on papers, in journals, or as a byline in articles." 2601:982:4200:A6C:A0FA:EC37:B807:E1B1 ( talk) 05:03, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone help with sources for her reaction to the Christchurch terrorist attack. The terrorist cited the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory in his manifesto and seems to have been a fan of hers. She took down here "Great Replacement" video temporarily, until she realized that other people had copies anyway. -- 84.19.140.150 ( talk) 08:13, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
Citations should not be sought out to match a point of view. If they are there use them but this reads like you are specifically want citations to fit a narrative.
The terrorist was also a "fan" of Pewdiepie and many other people. It's unclear how many of these people he actually supported as he said himself he wanted to create as much chaos as possible so name dropped in his video to smear others.
Do you have proof she only rereleased it when she released other people had copies? The video seemed to be down before the Christchurch attack.
Gareth1893 ( talk) 07:05, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
In the lede, it suggests that she was "barred from entering Britain". I'm not a legal expert, but surely she would have been barred from entering anywhere in the UK, and not just Great Britain. Can this be verified and either the lede changed to reflact the fact that she was barred from the UK as a whole (for how long?) or from the island of Great Britain distinctly? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 18:14, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
The lede also describes Southern as being "far right", when she actually ran as a candidate for a libertarian political party. Yes, there are sources from publications describing her as "far right", but libertarianism isn't (so far as I'm aware) particularly defined by how far left or right a person is. Libertarianism is basically the opposite of dictatorships or authoritarianism. The "far right" and "alt-right", if I'm not mistaken, are also generally authoritarian. So, not libertarian. The opposite.
Can we see the article distinguish better between what some publications have labelled her, and some of the activities she has been involved in (such as joining a libertarian party), and better identify what she actually was during her politically active period? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 18:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
[De-indent] I don't think it is particularly original research, although the border of what is original research and what is not is clearly a grey area - there are plenty of examples of graphs and illustrations in Wikipedia whih have been compiled by Wikipedia editors based on stats and other information, which presents a picture of a subject. Are those original research?
The fact remains that some people are left-libertarian, some are centre-libertarian and some are left-libertarian. Is that original research? There are differences between the left, centre and right. There are differences between libertarian and authoritarian. But being libertarian or authoritarian does not automatically correlate to left or right wing (or centre). So is it original research to suggest that libertarianism correlates with the far-right, as this article seems to imply? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 17:33, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
While looking at something else on WIKI, I noted that you can reference her movie directly.
I offer the reference here. I suggest that it be inserted after the reference to the Movie under the "Race" sub-section. Use the text immediately below to put in the reference which will come out as shown:
Farmlands (2018) [1].
Now, because I noticed that the final version cleaned everything up, here is the actual insert to be placed into the text, but without the "ref" and "ref" so that it will print out properly:
Farmlands (2018)
(insert "ref" start here) (insert double entry marks "{{")
cite web|url= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_bDc7FfItk&t=3s |title=Farmlands: South Africa's Farm Murder Documentary |author=Lauren Southern |date=June 25, 2018 |via=Youtube
(insert double exit marks "}}") (insert "ref" end here). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.44.192.8 ( talk) 03:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
It is a fine documentary.
All the best,
James 202.44.192.8 ( talk) 03:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
References
As one of the millions who encountered Southern through her two recent documentaries, I'm quite surprised to find scant mention of these publications in this profile. Indeed, as a Wikipedia editor striving for neutrality I'm very concerned about the state of this entire article. But to the immediate point: Southern is currently described as a "political activist" and a "YouTuber." To be quite honest, I'm not even sure if these are legitimate categories for anyone; they are more adjectival and indicative of the medium she uses that descriptors of what she actually is. She should be described in the first sentence as a "producer of documentary films" since this is what she is known for to (I would argue) the largest group of people. Further, in the opening paragraphs, instead of building up to a narrative of Southern as _____ (while assuming good faith I think its pretty clear how she is being portrayed), details of her documentaries should be given. It seems to me that these documentaries are the most significant thing Southern has contributed and that has warranted her notoriety. For reference we should look to Laura Poitras and the opening paragraphs that describe her. While Southern might be more outspoken about her politics (Poitras has deep-seated political opinions as well), and thus deserving of some mention of them in her introductory bit, we need to strive to describe with neutrality the things that Southern has produced outside of Twitter posts. ( 66.254.225.218 ( talk) 13:56, 24 October 2019 (UTC))
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Change violent threats to threats of violence. 122.57.204.34 ( talk) 02:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
The article says
When she asked people on the street in Melbourne "Should we kill Lauren Southern?", many had never heard of her.[54]
This is subtle bias. It states a fact, but ignores that several who did know of her did advocate violence towards her. You'd never know from the article. IF it's going to have the negative emphasis that many had never heard of her, then it should FOR BALANCE mention those that actually agreed with the premise that she deserved violence.
Montalban ( talk) 02:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Having watched Lauren on You Tube, please justify why she is labeled as far-right as opposed to simply right wing. When she comments on South Africa, she goes to the farms, speaks with farmers and their families and reports first-hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.130.141 ( talk) 10:51, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
This article is very biased in tone. It should use neutral terms and not push a certain point of view. Mathieas ( talk) 18:15, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
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As stated in her instagram post https://www.instagram.com/p/B76_b_QgoCu/ "In the midst of a chaotic life, I rediscovered my faith in the most amazing way." So she became religious.
[edit: the following is already included in the article] Also, she got married and gave birth to a child. 84.242.96.190 ( talk) 14:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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Change far right to center right. Lauren is not far right by any means. This is slander 2605:8D80:4E0:6028:15F6:376F:8968:8CCA ( talk) 11:02, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
MadGuy7023 (
talk)
11:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)There is a wrong translation in reference #93: "Überlegenheit" means "supremacy", not "survival", in English. "Survival" is "Überleben" in German. I guess s.o. was confused by the adjective "überlegen" and the noun "Überleben". Jezabeliberté ( talk) 17:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This should read "She has been described by her critics as" to be honest. Wikipedia hasn't been honest in a decade or so though now, they're just a copy paste of media hacks who play their role in perpetuating witch hunt tags against anyone the establishment dislikes by labelling them all nazi's or white supreeeemists. But here's hoping one editor with a spine and moral compass appreciates that she doesn't identify as that, ran as a libertarian, holds libertarian views, and it's only her critics who say this and write it correctly in an unbiased NPOV way. 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 10:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The article does not refer to it as a Nazi, despite it being a white just like every other Nazi. The only mention of the term Nazi, is its defense of its leader Richard Spencer another Nazi, an outspoken self admitted Nazi at that. If anything the lack of sources that refer to it as an evil subhuman Nazi, is slanted in favor of the Fascist far-right white supremacists.
I don't understand this: She OFFICIALLY changed her gender / sex status to male. Shouldn't (s)he then be classified as a man? Jezabeliberté ( talk) 17:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
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relevant to mention that mass shooters were inspired by her rhetoric and those around her https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/03/15/new-zealand-terrorist-manifesto-influenced-far-right-online-ecosystem-hatewatch-finds https://thinkprogress.org/alleged-new-zealand-shooter-donated-far-right-group-steve-king-tucker-carlson-8fe73243ea88/ 2001:1970:5E26:F400:14A3:4C86:2012:567B ( talk) 15:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The blocking template says "If you are the person represented by this username, please note that the practice of blocking such usernames is to protect you from being impersonated, not to discourage you from editing Wikipedia. You may choose to edit under a new username (see information below), but keep in mind that you are welcome to continue to edit under this username.
If you choose to keep your current username, please send an email to info-enwikimedia.org including your real name and your Wikipedia username to receive instructions from our volunteer response team about account verification. Please do not send documentation without being requested to do so."
That seems simple enough. It's probably her but in these times it might not be. Doug Weller talk 16:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Which is fine, she should only have one account and that one clearly identifies her. Doug Weller talk 16:54, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello, Lauren Southern here to correct this article myself.
I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.
"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"
I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.
Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.
If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere show that I have denied both allegations and that these are from critics.
I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauren Cherie Southern ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello Lauren Southern here again. My last account Lauren Cherie Southern was blocked for... impersonating myself? I've confirmed this is me on my twitter again @lauren_southern. As wikipedia sent me a message suggesting I make another account.
I'd like to address one of the opening statements of the page which says.
"Southern is known for her promotion of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. A YouTube video of the same name she released in July 2017[8] has more than 680,000 views[9] and is credited with helping to popularize the white supremacist conspiracy theory.[10]"
It is ludicrous to suggest this is what I'm "known for". It's one video I made years ago which doesn't even exist on my Youtube page anymore, which was based off seeing outlets like "The Guardian" make articles called "The Last Days of a White World" in which they suggested white people are ever more becoming a minority. I reject white supremacy in all its forms, the conversation I had in that youtube video was one about demographic change which is a question of mathematics and numbers - it was not one of ideology. As I mentioned before many mainstream outlets have discussed the subject as well being far more blatant, why are "The Guardian" not attributed to popularizing the conspiracy of White decline despite their articles suggesting it is occurring? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
To get back to the point - I am known for my documentary Farmlands on South Africa which got 2.5 million views. I am known for my documentary Borderless which got over a million views as well. Significantly more attention than this "Great Replacement" video. Why are these two documentaries not included in the introduction despite receiving significantly more attention?
The reason they are not included and the Great Replacement is is because the editors deliberately want my page to portray me badly. To put this in the opening paragraph and not in perhaps "controversies" is absurd.
It would be akin to opening Kamala Harris page by saying "she is known for imprisoning black men for minor drug charges."
Did she help imprison black men for minor drug charges? Yes. Is this what she's primarily known for? No.
Did I make a video called the Great Replacement? Yes. Is it what I'm primarily known for and did it have anything to do with me wanting to support "white supremacy" - absolutely not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 ( talk • contribs) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello, Lauren Southern again here to correct this article myself. My last account was removed for self impersonation, so I'm posting this again.
I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.
"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"
I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.
Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.
If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere else in the article such as "criticisms" or something show that I have vehemently denied both allegations.
I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. @lauren_southern — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 ( talk • contribs) 05:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Today has seen a miniature editing war between two camps: one claiming Lauren Southern promoted the White Genocide theory, and one that claims the opposite. Just looking at the sources provided by the former camp, they don't seem to support the claim very well. Source [95] merely says Lauren Southern "plays up" to the narrative. Source [96], besides seemingly being an unreliable source, does say Southern promotes the theory but does not give any explanation. In fact, the article only claims she is known for promoting the theory in their description of Southern. [97] does again claim Southern supports the theory, but does not say where she has said such things. In source [98] they merely claim Southern has said the farm murders in South Africa could be what leads up to a genocide - that doesn't promote any theory about ongoing genocide, nor does it promote anything but the idea there is a risk for genocide against white South Africans. That can hardly be called "promoting the white genocide theory". All in all I think the sources are at most a mixed bag with either no such claim being made, or at most an unsupported claim being made that Southern promotes the theory. I therefore do not believe that Wikipedia should make any statements of fact such as "Southern has promoted the white genocide conspiracy theory" until direct and conclusive proof can be shown. Zuurman1 ( talk) 20:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Southern's documentary promotes the same "White Genocide" narrative that is promoted by Afriforum. Here is a non-exhaustive list of sources explaining this:
Southern made a film about “white genocide” in South Africa, a conspiracy theory that was picked up by Tucker Carlson on Fox News and led President Trump to tweet about the subject
Southern’s treatment of this subject is selective, lurid, and plays up to the long-established far right meta-narrative of “white genocide”.
"White Genocide In South Africa" has become the meme de nos jours in hard-right circles... Within weeks of each other, hard-right commentators Lauren Southern and Katie Hopkins both turned up in South Africa, to make parallel documentaries unpacking the fictional tragedy for their audiences...The spark for both of their trips, and indeed for the entire meme, can be traced to an organisation called Suidlanders
Pundits have picked up AfriForum’s message, some going as far as to label the farm attacks a genocide. “If it continues, I fear there is going to be the beginning stages of what many would call genocide,” the Canadian far-right political commentator Lauren Southern said on the Breitbart News Sunday podcast.
Following this awareness campaign, alt-right and conservative media personalities such as Lauren Southern and Katie Hopkins have come to South Africa to report on the supposed dangers faced by white South Africans.
AfriForum has been incredibly effective at spreading its propaganda, particularly online....Lauren Southern with the European alt-right group Identity Evropa made a documentary about the subject
So why these rumors of an uprising against whites in South Africa now?... I’ve been receiving emails for a year or two now from anxious friends abroad about tidbits they’ve read about growing anger towards white people here—mostly in the U.K. tabloid press or on the Twitter feeds of the Canadian right-wing provocateurs Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux.
white supremacists across the world have been raising a false alarm about it for more than a decade, and the fear that black Africans will violently rise up against whites has been a far-right trope since shortly after World War II. ...in June [2018], Lauren Southern, a far-right Canadian “citizen journalist,” debuted a professional-looking documentary about the subject to her followers
There's no sensible question here. Nblund talk 22:24, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
~
FWIW, a few relevant reports that may be of interest to editors here:
Bennv3771 ( talk) 12:21, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
All this original research as to whether this "genocide" (sic) is happening or not is all well and good but as far as the article is concerned, who cares? At the end of the day all that matters is whether sources call it a conspiracy theory (they do) and whether they note Southern promotes it (they do). Volunteer Marek ( talk) 21:28, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I have removed this and this source from the article. The sentence (which is worded well and I do not disagree with) suggests that the sources claim Southern is a proponent of the white genocide theory, but the former source is unreliable and the latter does not support the claim made in the sentence. The other two sources are fine and I see no further reason to alter the sentence. Zuurman1 ( talk) 16:45, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
@
Bradv: I was not removing content just because I don't like it (I apologise if I can across that way), I explained my reasoning. I admit I was wrong about the references' reliability (sorry for that) but I was arguing for the article to be concise as it seems needlessly inflammatory.
Gareth1893 (
talk) 20:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
An edit I started before I got the notification from
Bradv (hence why I haven't undone it) was undone with the sole reason being " I don't see why this should be removed"(@
Doug Weller:). This is a clear example of removing content because someone doesn't like it. I haven't undone it because I don't want to be banned for edit warring but explanations should be given when changes are made.
Gareth1893 (
talk)
20:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Is there a reference for Richard Spencer, "who had said "Hail Trump" in a speech at a white nationalist gathering, and had called for a "peaceful" ethnic cleansing of America"? Gareth1893 ( talk) 17:12, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
This source is a prime example of a self published source. Core content policy says we do not use self published sources as sources for content on BLP's. This is consistent with what is in WP: RSP since it could potentially be used as a source on non-blp articles. However, it still can't be used as a source here. -- Kyohyi ( talk) 19:24, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Kyohyi, I have of course read the entire note; I am saying that the opening sentence of the note is supported neither by the sources cited in the note nor by the WP policy consensus. And your position about advocacy groups has, as I understand it, consistently failed to achieve consensus at RfC so I am uncertain why you are pushing that PoV here. Newimpartial ( talk) 19:39, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
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FAR RIGHT??? libelous and wrong
LAUREN IS A CONSERVATIVE NOT fAR-RIGHT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.130.141 ( talk) 23:46, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
188.30.159.250 ( talk) 13:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
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current version
In November 2018, Southern released a video showing an Advocates Abroad worker apparently encouraging fraud by migrants at Moria, Lesbos by lying to the European Asylum Support Office. Advocates Abroad denied the veracity of the video. Buzzfeed News reported that a UNHCR spokesperson said, "Greece has rigorous asylum procedures in place, within a robust legal framework." [1]
suggested version
In November 2018, Southern released a video showing an Advocates Abroad worker apparently encouraging fraud by migrants at Moria, Lesbos by lying to the European Asylum Support Office. Advocates Abroad denied the veracity of the video. Buzzfeed News reported that a UNHCR spokesperson said, "Greece has rigorous asylum procedures in place, within a robust legal framework." [2] In May 2019, Southern released documentary called Borderless about the migrant crisis and its consequences.
reference - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10384606/ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ_fz9EW5Iw Byk7 ( talk) 19:28, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, but I still suggest to have the link there, since it's available for free. Maybe like this?
In May 2019, Southern released a documentary about the migrant crisis and its consequences called Borderless. The documentary was removed from Youtube [3], but it was reuploaded soon. [4]
References
https://laurensouthern.net/a-new-chapter/ She is done with political commentary, documentary making, and all use of social media. States that she is returning to university in hopes of completing her undergraduate, and graduate degrees, and that, "maybe you’ll read my name on papers, in journals, or as a byline in articles." 2601:982:4200:A6C:A0FA:EC37:B807:E1B1 ( talk) 05:03, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone help with sources for her reaction to the Christchurch terrorist attack. The terrorist cited the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory in his manifesto and seems to have been a fan of hers. She took down here "Great Replacement" video temporarily, until she realized that other people had copies anyway. -- 84.19.140.150 ( talk) 08:13, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
Citations should not be sought out to match a point of view. If they are there use them but this reads like you are specifically want citations to fit a narrative.
The terrorist was also a "fan" of Pewdiepie and many other people. It's unclear how many of these people he actually supported as he said himself he wanted to create as much chaos as possible so name dropped in his video to smear others.
Do you have proof she only rereleased it when she released other people had copies? The video seemed to be down before the Christchurch attack.
Gareth1893 ( talk) 07:05, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
In the lede, it suggests that she was "barred from entering Britain". I'm not a legal expert, but surely she would have been barred from entering anywhere in the UK, and not just Great Britain. Can this be verified and either the lede changed to reflact the fact that she was barred from the UK as a whole (for how long?) or from the island of Great Britain distinctly? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 18:14, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
The lede also describes Southern as being "far right", when she actually ran as a candidate for a libertarian political party. Yes, there are sources from publications describing her as "far right", but libertarianism isn't (so far as I'm aware) particularly defined by how far left or right a person is. Libertarianism is basically the opposite of dictatorships or authoritarianism. The "far right" and "alt-right", if I'm not mistaken, are also generally authoritarian. So, not libertarian. The opposite.
Can we see the article distinguish better between what some publications have labelled her, and some of the activities she has been involved in (such as joining a libertarian party), and better identify what she actually was during her politically active period? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 18:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
[De-indent] I don't think it is particularly original research, although the border of what is original research and what is not is clearly a grey area - there are plenty of examples of graphs and illustrations in Wikipedia whih have been compiled by Wikipedia editors based on stats and other information, which presents a picture of a subject. Are those original research?
The fact remains that some people are left-libertarian, some are centre-libertarian and some are left-libertarian. Is that original research? There are differences between the left, centre and right. There are differences between libertarian and authoritarian. But being libertarian or authoritarian does not automatically correlate to left or right wing (or centre). So is it original research to suggest that libertarianism correlates with the far-right, as this article seems to imply? -- 82.2.5.153 ( talk) 17:33, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
While looking at something else on WIKI, I noted that you can reference her movie directly.
I offer the reference here. I suggest that it be inserted after the reference to the Movie under the "Race" sub-section. Use the text immediately below to put in the reference which will come out as shown:
Farmlands (2018) [1].
Now, because I noticed that the final version cleaned everything up, here is the actual insert to be placed into the text, but without the "ref" and "ref" so that it will print out properly:
Farmlands (2018)
(insert "ref" start here) (insert double entry marks "{{")
cite web|url= https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_bDc7FfItk&t=3s |title=Farmlands: South Africa's Farm Murder Documentary |author=Lauren Southern |date=June 25, 2018 |via=Youtube
(insert double exit marks "}}") (insert "ref" end here). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.44.192.8 ( talk) 03:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
It is a fine documentary.
All the best,
James 202.44.192.8 ( talk) 03:45, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
References
As one of the millions who encountered Southern through her two recent documentaries, I'm quite surprised to find scant mention of these publications in this profile. Indeed, as a Wikipedia editor striving for neutrality I'm very concerned about the state of this entire article. But to the immediate point: Southern is currently described as a "political activist" and a "YouTuber." To be quite honest, I'm not even sure if these are legitimate categories for anyone; they are more adjectival and indicative of the medium she uses that descriptors of what she actually is. She should be described in the first sentence as a "producer of documentary films" since this is what she is known for to (I would argue) the largest group of people. Further, in the opening paragraphs, instead of building up to a narrative of Southern as _____ (while assuming good faith I think its pretty clear how she is being portrayed), details of her documentaries should be given. It seems to me that these documentaries are the most significant thing Southern has contributed and that has warranted her notoriety. For reference we should look to Laura Poitras and the opening paragraphs that describe her. While Southern might be more outspoken about her politics (Poitras has deep-seated political opinions as well), and thus deserving of some mention of them in her introductory bit, we need to strive to describe with neutrality the things that Southern has produced outside of Twitter posts. ( 66.254.225.218 ( talk) 13:56, 24 October 2019 (UTC))
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Change violent threats to threats of violence. 122.57.204.34 ( talk) 02:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
The article says
When she asked people on the street in Melbourne "Should we kill Lauren Southern?", many had never heard of her.[54]
This is subtle bias. It states a fact, but ignores that several who did know of her did advocate violence towards her. You'd never know from the article. IF it's going to have the negative emphasis that many had never heard of her, then it should FOR BALANCE mention those that actually agreed with the premise that she deserved violence.
Montalban ( talk) 02:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
Having watched Lauren on You Tube, please justify why she is labeled as far-right as opposed to simply right wing. When she comments on South Africa, she goes to the farms, speaks with farmers and their families and reports first-hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.130.141 ( talk) 10:51, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
This article is very biased in tone. It should use neutral terms and not push a certain point of view. Mathieas ( talk) 18:15, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
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As stated in her instagram post https://www.instagram.com/p/B76_b_QgoCu/ "In the midst of a chaotic life, I rediscovered my faith in the most amazing way." So she became religious.
[edit: the following is already included in the article] Also, she got married and gave birth to a child. 84.242.96.190 ( talk) 14:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
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Change far right to center right. Lauren is not far right by any means. This is slander 2605:8D80:4E0:6028:15F6:376F:8968:8CCA ( talk) 11:02, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
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11:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)There is a wrong translation in reference #93: "Überlegenheit" means "supremacy", not "survival", in English. "Survival" is "Überleben" in German. I guess s.o. was confused by the adjective "überlegen" and the noun "Überleben". Jezabeliberté ( talk) 17:23, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This should read "She has been described by her critics as" to be honest. Wikipedia hasn't been honest in a decade or so though now, they're just a copy paste of media hacks who play their role in perpetuating witch hunt tags against anyone the establishment dislikes by labelling them all nazi's or white supreeeemists. But here's hoping one editor with a spine and moral compass appreciates that she doesn't identify as that, ran as a libertarian, holds libertarian views, and it's only her critics who say this and write it correctly in an unbiased NPOV way. 121.210.33.50 ( talk) 10:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The article does not refer to it as a Nazi, despite it being a white just like every other Nazi. The only mention of the term Nazi, is its defense of its leader Richard Spencer another Nazi, an outspoken self admitted Nazi at that. If anything the lack of sources that refer to it as an evil subhuman Nazi, is slanted in favor of the Fascist far-right white supremacists.
I don't understand this: She OFFICIALLY changed her gender / sex status to male. Shouldn't (s)he then be classified as a man? Jezabeliberté ( talk) 17:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
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relevant to mention that mass shooters were inspired by her rhetoric and those around her https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/03/15/new-zealand-terrorist-manifesto-influenced-far-right-online-ecosystem-hatewatch-finds https://thinkprogress.org/alleged-new-zealand-shooter-donated-far-right-group-steve-king-tucker-carlson-8fe73243ea88/ 2001:1970:5E26:F400:14A3:4C86:2012:567B ( talk) 15:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
The blocking template says "If you are the person represented by this username, please note that the practice of blocking such usernames is to protect you from being impersonated, not to discourage you from editing Wikipedia. You may choose to edit under a new username (see information below), but keep in mind that you are welcome to continue to edit under this username.
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That seems simple enough. It's probably her but in these times it might not be. Doug Weller talk 16:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
Which is fine, she should only have one account and that one clearly identifies her. Doug Weller talk 16:54, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello, Lauren Southern here to correct this article myself.
I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.
"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"
I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.
Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.
If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere show that I have denied both allegations and that these are from critics.
I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauren Cherie Southern ( talk • contribs) 04:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello Lauren Southern here again. My last account Lauren Cherie Southern was blocked for... impersonating myself? I've confirmed this is me on my twitter again @lauren_southern. As wikipedia sent me a message suggesting I make another account.
I'd like to address one of the opening statements of the page which says.
"Southern is known for her promotion of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. A YouTube video of the same name she released in July 2017[8] has more than 680,000 views[9] and is credited with helping to popularize the white supremacist conspiracy theory.[10]"
It is ludicrous to suggest this is what I'm "known for". It's one video I made years ago which doesn't even exist on my Youtube page anymore, which was based off seeing outlets like "The Guardian" make articles called "The Last Days of a White World" in which they suggested white people are ever more becoming a minority. I reject white supremacy in all its forms, the conversation I had in that youtube video was one about demographic change which is a question of mathematics and numbers - it was not one of ideology. As I mentioned before many mainstream outlets have discussed the subject as well being far more blatant, why are "The Guardian" not attributed to popularizing the conspiracy of White decline despite their articles suggesting it is occurring? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
To get back to the point - I am known for my documentary Farmlands on South Africa which got 2.5 million views. I am known for my documentary Borderless which got over a million views as well. Significantly more attention than this "Great Replacement" video. Why are these two documentaries not included in the introduction despite receiving significantly more attention?
The reason they are not included and the Great Replacement is is because the editors deliberately want my page to portray me badly. To put this in the opening paragraph and not in perhaps "controversies" is absurd.
It would be akin to opening Kamala Harris page by saying "she is known for imprisoning black men for minor drug charges."
Did she help imprison black men for minor drug charges? Yes. Is this what she's primarily known for? No.
Did I make a video called the Great Replacement? Yes. Is it what I'm primarily known for and did it have anything to do with me wanting to support "white supremacy" - absolutely not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 ( talk • contribs) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello, Lauren Southern again here to correct this article myself. My last account was removed for self impersonation, so I'm posting this again.
I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.
"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"
I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.
Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.
If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere else in the article such as "criticisms" or something show that I have vehemently denied both allegations.
I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. @lauren_southern — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 ( talk • contribs) 05:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC)