![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move. JPG-GR ( talk) 17:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Overall think people who revert the edits are interested in Wikialty then the actual content of the articles relating the Kassel branch of the former ruling house of Hesse, but if all interested, overall issue under way at Talk:William VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel Cladeal832 ( talk) 01:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Oppose Google scholar searches indicate "Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel" is by far the more usual spelling as opposed to "Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel" by a margin of 233–52. More general searches for "Hesse-Cassel" and "Hesse-Kassel" give a margin of 1660–746, with many of the 746 in foreign languages and all of the 1660 in English. Finally, as Kassel was called Cassel until 1926, this individual would have been known as Hesse-Cassel throughout their entire life, and not as "Hesse-Kassel". DrKiernan ( talk) 07:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move as before. See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Cladeal832. JPG-GR ( talk) 01:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
If interested why this move is happening, refer to this Discussion Cladeal832 ( talk) 18:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Also: looking at JSTOR searches, the American Historical Review (the main American historical journal), as well as the Sixteenth Century Journal and the German Studies Review use "Hesse-Kassel", all in recent articles. The only title match for "Hesse-Cassel" is from the Journal of Economic History. Also note that many of the results for "Hesse-Cassel" in the Google Scholar search come from older sources - one is from 1912. Cladeal832 ( talk) 04:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Oppose For the same reasons as before, but this time with the additional reason that the proposer of the move is a vote canvasser, who may be employing either sockpuppets or meatpuppets in an attempt to vote-stack. The subject of this article was never known as "Hesse-Kassel" and was always known as "Hesse-Cassel". I see no reason to alter their surname to a modern neologism, when the spelling that they used themselves is perfectly consistent with an accepted norm. DrKiernan ( talk) 08:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
66.185.217.73 ( talk): This anonymous user is an IP in Ontario, Canada and shows a distinctive editing pattern of no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel.
User:Cladeal832 shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They also edit from Ontario IP addresses [1].
User:MeanLevels shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They are also interested in Ontario related subject matter [2].
User:JLIBPB shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They are also interested in Ontario-related subject matter [3].
User:Todkvi5832 shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. The username ends in the same three letter abbreviation as Cladeal832.
All five have "!voted" at least once in related move debates and occasionally edit each others' comments: Talk:Princess Louise Caroline of Hesse-Cassel [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. DrKiernan ( talk) 14:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
On 28 March 2008 someone added a Rothschild infopiece (below) to this article. That's however mistake - the William who was Rothschilds' patron, was this William's uncle.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild and Prince William:
The result of the move request was: pages moved. harej 04:21, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Srnec ( talk) 04:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)Basically, all members of the house of Hesse-Kassel before 1803 bore the title "Landgraf von Hessen-Kassel". To distinguish the reigning landgraves from the non-reigning ones, we apparently use the format William VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel for reigning landgraves and Landgrave William of Hesse-Kassel for non-reigning ones. This is not a very useful way to go about it, as it doesn't make sense unless you already know the convention. Probably we should move the non-reigning ones to the form Prince William of Hesse-Kassel; it's not technically a correct translation of their German titles, but this is what was generally used in English at the time, and is less confusing than the Landgrave form.
Oppose until somebody can show that these individuals are more commonly called "Prince" than "Landgrave". Article titles should reflect the reality of published scholarship - not a perfect world in which everything is immediately clear. We have Albert_II,_Prince_of_Monaco and Princess Stéphanie of Monaco. How is Landgrave different? Noel S McFerran ( talk) 12:50, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The heading is wrong. His highest title was Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel after his father, titular Landgrave Friedrich of Hesses death as his heir and oldest son. Calling him Prince is wrong. If people dont get the distinvtion between being a reigning Landgrave and non-reignig Landgrave then it should become clear by reading the article. You dont call cadet princes off russia (sons and grand sons of emperors) "Princes" but Grand dukes" eventhough that used to be a title for the reigning Monarch of the russian state. Or you could just call the article Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1787-1867) 130.226.236.6 ( talk) 14:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move. JPG-GR ( talk) 17:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Overall think people who revert the edits are interested in Wikialty then the actual content of the articles relating the Kassel branch of the former ruling house of Hesse, but if all interested, overall issue under way at Talk:William VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel Cladeal832 ( talk) 01:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Oppose Google scholar searches indicate "Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel" is by far the more usual spelling as opposed to "Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel" by a margin of 233–52. More general searches for "Hesse-Cassel" and "Hesse-Kassel" give a margin of 1660–746, with many of the 746 in foreign languages and all of the 1660 in English. Finally, as Kassel was called Cassel until 1926, this individual would have been known as Hesse-Cassel throughout their entire life, and not as "Hesse-Kassel". DrKiernan ( talk) 07:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to support move as before. See Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Cladeal832. JPG-GR ( talk) 01:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
If interested why this move is happening, refer to this Discussion Cladeal832 ( talk) 18:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Also: looking at JSTOR searches, the American Historical Review (the main American historical journal), as well as the Sixteenth Century Journal and the German Studies Review use "Hesse-Kassel", all in recent articles. The only title match for "Hesse-Cassel" is from the Journal of Economic History. Also note that many of the results for "Hesse-Cassel" in the Google Scholar search come from older sources - one is from 1912. Cladeal832 ( talk) 04:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Oppose For the same reasons as before, but this time with the additional reason that the proposer of the move is a vote canvasser, who may be employing either sockpuppets or meatpuppets in an attempt to vote-stack. The subject of this article was never known as "Hesse-Kassel" and was always known as "Hesse-Cassel". I see no reason to alter their surname to a modern neologism, when the spelling that they used themselves is perfectly consistent with an accepted norm. DrKiernan ( talk) 08:51, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
66.185.217.73 ( talk): This anonymous user is an IP in Ontario, Canada and shows a distinctive editing pattern of no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel.
User:Cladeal832 shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They also edit from Ontario IP addresses [1].
User:MeanLevels shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They are also interested in Ontario related subject matter [2].
User:JLIBPB shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. They are also interested in Ontario-related subject matter [3].
User:Todkvi5832 shows a distinctive editing pattern of few to no edit summaries and a large number of edits to nobility articles, including those of Hesse-Cassel. The username ends in the same three letter abbreviation as Cladeal832.
All five have "!voted" at least once in related move debates and occasionally edit each others' comments: Talk:Princess Louise Caroline of Hesse-Cassel [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. DrKiernan ( talk) 14:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
On 28 March 2008 someone added a Rothschild infopiece (below) to this article. That's however mistake - the William who was Rothschilds' patron, was this William's uncle.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild and Prince William:
The result of the move request was: pages moved. harej 04:21, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
Srnec ( talk) 04:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)Basically, all members of the house of Hesse-Kassel before 1803 bore the title "Landgraf von Hessen-Kassel". To distinguish the reigning landgraves from the non-reigning ones, we apparently use the format William VIII, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel for reigning landgraves and Landgrave William of Hesse-Kassel for non-reigning ones. This is not a very useful way to go about it, as it doesn't make sense unless you already know the convention. Probably we should move the non-reigning ones to the form Prince William of Hesse-Kassel; it's not technically a correct translation of their German titles, but this is what was generally used in English at the time, and is less confusing than the Landgrave form.
Oppose until somebody can show that these individuals are more commonly called "Prince" than "Landgrave". Article titles should reflect the reality of published scholarship - not a perfect world in which everything is immediately clear. We have Albert_II,_Prince_of_Monaco and Princess Stéphanie of Monaco. How is Landgrave different? Noel S McFerran ( talk) 12:50, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The heading is wrong. His highest title was Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel after his father, titular Landgrave Friedrich of Hesses death as his heir and oldest son. Calling him Prince is wrong. If people dont get the distinvtion between being a reigning Landgrave and non-reignig Landgrave then it should become clear by reading the article. You dont call cadet princes off russia (sons and grand sons of emperors) "Princes" but Grand dukes" eventhough that used to be a title for the reigning Monarch of the russian state. Or you could just call the article Wilhelm of Hesse-Kassel (1787-1867) 130.226.236.6 ( talk) 14:07, 25 January 2023 (UTC)