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Per the Wiki as it's currently constituted: "In strength, lagers represent some of the world's most alcoholic beers. The very strongest lagers often fall into the German-originated doppelbock style, with the strongest of these, the commercially-produced Samichlaus, reaching 14% ABV."
I suggest deletion of these statements. There's no factual reference cited, and from my personal experience, there's nothing exceptional about the alcoholic content of lagers. If anything, I'd probably say the opposite (that ales tend to have a higher ABV [alcohol by volume] than lagers). Currently, the article references Samichlaus Bier at 14% ABV as "evidence" of this supposition -- but there are any numbers of ales that meet and exceed 14%. Not to mention, Samichlaus is not the strongest doppelbock anyway.
I do think it's worthwhile to mention that doppelbocks are typically the strongest lagers, and that Samichlaus Bier is an example of that style. But the rest should be removed.
-- Mavajo ( talk) 14:23, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Many contributors to this encyclopaedia are incorrectly using the term "lager" when they mean bottom fermented Ale or Beer. There are two main types of yeast - top fermenting yeast and bottom fermenting yeast. In the UK, Ireland and Belgium, the predominant method of brewing uses top fermenting yeast. In Germany and central Europe (Czech Republic and other places) the predominant method uses bottom fermenting yeast.
The term lager is almost exclusively used in the UK and Ireland (possibly in other English speaking countries). It would never be used by a German Brewer to describe a beer. It is used to describe a brewing process - lagering is storing beer until the fermentation has slowed down to a specific point; this is a process that tends to be used for bottom fermented beers; although top fermented beers do have to go through a period of conditioning.
Bottom fermented beers can be light, dark, strong, weak, wheat beers etc... calling them lager is a misnomer.
The products marketed as lager in the UK was inevitably very light and bore a passing resemblance to Pilsner beers, or Budweiser beers (those from the Czech? towns of Pilsen and Budweis respectively). However this was as often as not Top fermented beer, anyway! So to compare bottom fermented beers with lager is an insult to continental brewers.
"Lagerbier" is commonly used in German beer brands as well, e.g. "Helles Lagerbier". -- Killing Vector ( talk) 17:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Nah, the top posting is completely right. As far as "Helles lagerbier" goes, helles means light in german so that's how you'll identify what kind of beer it is. Also Helles can be either top or bottom fermented. As for budwieser, in Germany, they wouldn't even call it a beer, never mind a lager, because it uses rice in the mash bill which is illegal under the Reinheitsgebot(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot). The word lager means "to store", which most modern breweries don't do. Most beers from the states, canada and england that have the word lager on the bottle are in fact not lager because they are not matured after fermentation. So, all in all I think it's mostly you guys that are talking crap. Get your fact straight first yeah? - I agree with the top guy and reckon this article should be changed to prevent further stupidity. UberBeer ( talk) 20:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The distinction between top and bottom-fermenting yeast has eroded with the wide use of closed, cylindrico-conical fermenters. The operational distinction between ale and lager beer is the fermentation temperature. Lager beer is fermented in the range of about 10-15 C and ale is fermented in the range of 15-20 C [1] The lower temperature of lager beer fermentation gives a product with a lower concentration of esters - compounds that give fruity or flowery notes. Ale yeast (S. cerevisiae) will not work at low temperature, so lager beer is generally associated with lager yeast: S. pastorianus. Beer that is fermented at low temperature needs a prolonged cold conditioning period (the lager process) to allow the yeast to consume diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione, which give a buttery off-flavor [2]. The lager process gave lager beer its name, but the most reliable point of distinction of ale from lager beer is fermentation temperature. Dr Thermo ( talk) 19:44, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
References
I got this from a site regarding the etymology for "lager beer" : there were two brothers named Gottfried and Sigmund Lager (c1400-1470) who founded a famous brewery in Dortmund. In the 1440s they quarrelled and Gottfried upped and moved to Munich where he prospered by selling this strong, pale beer. Jay 19:22, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The above contradicts the established wisdom that the term lager derives from the German word meaning 'to store'.
I am not aware of any McEwan's beers that are lagers... They are all ales, as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?
"The most evident difference compared to the yeast that was used in the rest of Europe is that lager yeast deposits on the bottom after the fermentation rather than rising on the top."
While lager yeast is "bottom-fermenting" and ale yeast is "top-fermenting", this is during fermentation. After fermentation both ale and lager yeasts fall to the bottom, a process known as flocculation.
Top fermenting yeast has to be helped to flocculate - hence the use of finings which are usually isinglass. It is only then that the yeast will fall to the bottom.
Some yeasts have high levels of flocculation, and some have low levels of flocculation (such as those used in hefeweizens), but yeast do not flocculate to the top. If the yeast does not fall to the bottom after fermentation, then the beer will be cloudy.
Not quite true, originally most if not all ale yeasts rose to the top of the vessel after fermentation was complete. This yeast was removed and used to re-pitch subsequent brews. If you are a home brewer you can actually still experience this phenomenon with some yeasts such as Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Bitter. The few small breweries that still use Yorkshire Squares, such as Samuel Smith and Blacksheep in Yorkshire have 'yeast decks'above the fermenter that the yeast rises up onto after fermentation is finished. However with the rise of bigger commercial breweries, nearly all ale yeasts now floc to the bottom of the fermenter after they have done their job. The original terms top and bottom fermenting were allocated to the two styles of brewing in the late 19th Century when they were more 'true to type'. However it has become blurred over the subsequent decades.-- MichaelGG ( talk) 01:36, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
There needs to be a lot more development in this section and I don't have my sources close to hand. My understanding of the timeline is, roughly:
Anyway, obviously these are all still just scratch notes. -- Stlemur 09:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The section on Lager History covering continuous fermentation makes it seem like continuous fermentation is widely in use throughout the world. I believe that not to be the case. I think most of the large breweries, including lager brewers, still utilize batch fermentation. That I am aware of there is only one large continuous fermentation brewery in the world. Dominion Brewery in New Zealand. Can anyone name another? If not I think this section should be edited so that it does not imply lager's popularity is largely contingent on continuous fermentation because that does not seem to be the case. Degarth ( talk) 03:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Dominion Breweries state that their continuous fermentation 'sets them apart' from other brewers, so no other breweries in New Zealand use the system. Overseas there are references to pilot schemes at Bass, Labatt and Kirin, but no evidence that they ever came into widespread use.-- MichaelGG ( talk) 03:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
How is this anything but discussion for home-brewers? Certainly home-brewers can appreciate the experience of drinking a beer, but it is illusion to think that the opposite is true: that beer drinkers would like to know how to make the beer. There is a home-brewing section here already - why doesn't "how to make lager" belong in that section? Mikebe ( talk) 08:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
As far as you know how many breweries use continuous fermentation period? Degarth ( talk) 03:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 04:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Why does 'lager beer' redirect to the 'pale lager' page and not here? A merge should probably be done (not by me though, I know nothing about it - I just stumbled across this when looking up stuff about brewers yeasts).
The definition sucks. How many other articles in Wikipedia start, "X is any type of Y that is not Z"? Is it just that a lager is any beer that is not an ale, or does it have characteristics of its own? 70.21.205.206 ( talk) 02:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Much better.
71.250.72.203 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
02:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC).
Refined definition. Lager is characterized by low temperature fermentation and conditioning. Mashing and boiling are hot. Also provided a citation.
Dr Thermo (
talk)
20:02, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
I can't sound like I know anything about beer unless I know if 'lager' is pronounced with a long or short 'a'. I don't know anything about pronunciation stylization, so I'll be unbold and ask someone else to do it. -Keith (Hypergeek14) Talk 20:50, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
It depends where you come from. If you live in London or the South East of the UK you would probably pronounce it almost as "lorger". In Australia it is pronounced with a long "broad a" and sounds like "laaager". I have heard some regional USA accents that use that broad "a" as well. In Scotland it would generally be pronounced with a short a, sounding a bit like "lagger" -- MichaelGG ( talk) 00:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Rtdrury ( talk) 01:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The origin of the lager yeast has apparently been solved. See 500 years ago, yeast's epic journey gave rise to lager beer. Mateat ( talk) 23:07, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Problem solved? Well, some questions remain. Columbus came to America in 1492. He was the first European to make the journey as we still believe. How could Patagonian yeast have come to Bavaria before Columbus? The PNAS article should tell us (it doesn't). Bavarian brewing regulations from 1486 (and arguably even earlier regulations, but that's contentious) show that lager-brewing was already practiced at that time (see Karin Hackel-Stehr: "Das Brauwesen in Bayern vom 14. bis 16. Jahrhundert, insbesondere die Entstehung und Entwicklung des Reinheitsgebotes (1516)" Dissertation, Berlin 1987, pp. 77, 82, 89). It is nice to show a map with a galleon traveling from Patagonia to Europe in the 15th century (see the physorg link). However, Patagonia was much later reached by Europeans than the Caribbean (Columbus' destination). There was no traffic between Patagonia and Europe in the 15th century.
unsigned comment added by Ruschu ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Any idea why Nazi death camps like Auschwitz are referred to as Lagers? For example by Auschwitz survivor Primo Levy?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.161.48.158 ( talk) 18:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Unlike English the german language is not very precise in its vocabulary and has to composite at least two words to give a clearly differentiated meaning. Lager therefore can be used for storage (Vorratslager), for camp (Zeltlager), for bearings (Radlager), for deposit (Lagerstätte), for abutment (Widerlager), for description of a political party (konservatives Lager), and in poetic language even for bed (Nachtlager). And with prefixes it gets even more confusing: siege (Belagerung), sedimentation (Ablagerung), transfer (Verlagerung) or outsourcing (Auslagerung). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.119.237 ( talk) 19:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is not very well written and it needs to be improved.
The first thing I need to point out is that it does not clearly classifies lager types or, if it does, the classification is somewhat scattered. Personally, I would prefer to see a classification chart to clearly show something like this:
Another thing that would really help would be to associate each type of lager with at least 3 commonly sold brands. When I think of lager, I think of Sapporo, Zipfer, Grolsch, Spaten or Forst. It really would help to place some of these names next to each type of lager. That would be more informative and clear any doubt about what lager really means, especially in countries where the difference among beers is not understood and beer is just a generic term for a bunch of different things.
ICE77 ( talk) 19:12, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Since I left my previous comment, more than 2 years ago, I haven't seen the introduction of a tree for the styles of lager beers with examples so I added the above to the article with two names for the pilsner. You are welcome to expand the list by adding additional examples but I would not clutter with more than 5 examples.
I am not sure the "Vienna Lager" is even a style. I would be inclined to say that it's just a geographical classification and not really a style.
Finally, I would be curious to know under what styles the followings would follow: Sapporo, Zipfer, Grolsch, Spaten or Forst.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:11, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Is there a difference between "lager" and "ale" that is tastable? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 18:49, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
There is a huge difference in flavor. Try a Pilsner Urquell (lager) and a Newcastle Brown Ale (ale). You will see the differene is huge.
ICE77 ( talk) 21:53, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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The etymology section doesn't really explain the origin of the term, only meanings. 2600:1700:CA10:18A0:B813:816A:C5B9:53E3 ( talk) 03:45, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lager article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Per the Wiki as it's currently constituted: "In strength, lagers represent some of the world's most alcoholic beers. The very strongest lagers often fall into the German-originated doppelbock style, with the strongest of these, the commercially-produced Samichlaus, reaching 14% ABV."
I suggest deletion of these statements. There's no factual reference cited, and from my personal experience, there's nothing exceptional about the alcoholic content of lagers. If anything, I'd probably say the opposite (that ales tend to have a higher ABV [alcohol by volume] than lagers). Currently, the article references Samichlaus Bier at 14% ABV as "evidence" of this supposition -- but there are any numbers of ales that meet and exceed 14%. Not to mention, Samichlaus is not the strongest doppelbock anyway.
I do think it's worthwhile to mention that doppelbocks are typically the strongest lagers, and that Samichlaus Bier is an example of that style. But the rest should be removed.
-- Mavajo ( talk) 14:23, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Many contributors to this encyclopaedia are incorrectly using the term "lager" when they mean bottom fermented Ale or Beer. There are two main types of yeast - top fermenting yeast and bottom fermenting yeast. In the UK, Ireland and Belgium, the predominant method of brewing uses top fermenting yeast. In Germany and central Europe (Czech Republic and other places) the predominant method uses bottom fermenting yeast.
The term lager is almost exclusively used in the UK and Ireland (possibly in other English speaking countries). It would never be used by a German Brewer to describe a beer. It is used to describe a brewing process - lagering is storing beer until the fermentation has slowed down to a specific point; this is a process that tends to be used for bottom fermented beers; although top fermented beers do have to go through a period of conditioning.
Bottom fermented beers can be light, dark, strong, weak, wheat beers etc... calling them lager is a misnomer.
The products marketed as lager in the UK was inevitably very light and bore a passing resemblance to Pilsner beers, or Budweiser beers (those from the Czech? towns of Pilsen and Budweis respectively). However this was as often as not Top fermented beer, anyway! So to compare bottom fermented beers with lager is an insult to continental brewers.
"Lagerbier" is commonly used in German beer brands as well, e.g. "Helles Lagerbier". -- Killing Vector ( talk) 17:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Nah, the top posting is completely right. As far as "Helles lagerbier" goes, helles means light in german so that's how you'll identify what kind of beer it is. Also Helles can be either top or bottom fermented. As for budwieser, in Germany, they wouldn't even call it a beer, never mind a lager, because it uses rice in the mash bill which is illegal under the Reinheitsgebot(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot). The word lager means "to store", which most modern breweries don't do. Most beers from the states, canada and england that have the word lager on the bottle are in fact not lager because they are not matured after fermentation. So, all in all I think it's mostly you guys that are talking crap. Get your fact straight first yeah? - I agree with the top guy and reckon this article should be changed to prevent further stupidity. UberBeer ( talk) 20:18, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The distinction between top and bottom-fermenting yeast has eroded with the wide use of closed, cylindrico-conical fermenters. The operational distinction between ale and lager beer is the fermentation temperature. Lager beer is fermented in the range of about 10-15 C and ale is fermented in the range of 15-20 C [1] The lower temperature of lager beer fermentation gives a product with a lower concentration of esters - compounds that give fruity or flowery notes. Ale yeast (S. cerevisiae) will not work at low temperature, so lager beer is generally associated with lager yeast: S. pastorianus. Beer that is fermented at low temperature needs a prolonged cold conditioning period (the lager process) to allow the yeast to consume diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione, which give a buttery off-flavor [2]. The lager process gave lager beer its name, but the most reliable point of distinction of ale from lager beer is fermentation temperature. Dr Thermo ( talk) 19:44, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
References
I got this from a site regarding the etymology for "lager beer" : there were two brothers named Gottfried and Sigmund Lager (c1400-1470) who founded a famous brewery in Dortmund. In the 1440s they quarrelled and Gottfried upped and moved to Munich where he prospered by selling this strong, pale beer. Jay 19:22, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The above contradicts the established wisdom that the term lager derives from the German word meaning 'to store'.
I am not aware of any McEwan's beers that are lagers... They are all ales, as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?
"The most evident difference compared to the yeast that was used in the rest of Europe is that lager yeast deposits on the bottom after the fermentation rather than rising on the top."
While lager yeast is "bottom-fermenting" and ale yeast is "top-fermenting", this is during fermentation. After fermentation both ale and lager yeasts fall to the bottom, a process known as flocculation.
Top fermenting yeast has to be helped to flocculate - hence the use of finings which are usually isinglass. It is only then that the yeast will fall to the bottom.
Some yeasts have high levels of flocculation, and some have low levels of flocculation (such as those used in hefeweizens), but yeast do not flocculate to the top. If the yeast does not fall to the bottom after fermentation, then the beer will be cloudy.
Not quite true, originally most if not all ale yeasts rose to the top of the vessel after fermentation was complete. This yeast was removed and used to re-pitch subsequent brews. If you are a home brewer you can actually still experience this phenomenon with some yeasts such as Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Bitter. The few small breweries that still use Yorkshire Squares, such as Samuel Smith and Blacksheep in Yorkshire have 'yeast decks'above the fermenter that the yeast rises up onto after fermentation is finished. However with the rise of bigger commercial breweries, nearly all ale yeasts now floc to the bottom of the fermenter after they have done their job. The original terms top and bottom fermenting were allocated to the two styles of brewing in the late 19th Century when they were more 'true to type'. However it has become blurred over the subsequent decades.-- MichaelGG ( talk) 01:36, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
There needs to be a lot more development in this section and I don't have my sources close to hand. My understanding of the timeline is, roughly:
Anyway, obviously these are all still just scratch notes. -- Stlemur 09:49, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The section on Lager History covering continuous fermentation makes it seem like continuous fermentation is widely in use throughout the world. I believe that not to be the case. I think most of the large breweries, including lager brewers, still utilize batch fermentation. That I am aware of there is only one large continuous fermentation brewery in the world. Dominion Brewery in New Zealand. Can anyone name another? If not I think this section should be edited so that it does not imply lager's popularity is largely contingent on continuous fermentation because that does not seem to be the case. Degarth ( talk) 03:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Dominion Breweries state that their continuous fermentation 'sets them apart' from other brewers, so no other breweries in New Zealand use the system. Overseas there are references to pilot schemes at Bass, Labatt and Kirin, but no evidence that they ever came into widespread use.-- MichaelGG ( talk) 03:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
How is this anything but discussion for home-brewers? Certainly home-brewers can appreciate the experience of drinking a beer, but it is illusion to think that the opposite is true: that beer drinkers would like to know how to make the beer. There is a home-brewing section here already - why doesn't "how to make lager" belong in that section? Mikebe ( talk) 08:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
As far as you know how many breweries use continuous fermentation period? Degarth ( talk) 03:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
This article talk page was automatically added with {{ WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot ( talk) 04:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Why does 'lager beer' redirect to the 'pale lager' page and not here? A merge should probably be done (not by me though, I know nothing about it - I just stumbled across this when looking up stuff about brewers yeasts).
The definition sucks. How many other articles in Wikipedia start, "X is any type of Y that is not Z"? Is it just that a lager is any beer that is not an ale, or does it have characteristics of its own? 70.21.205.206 ( talk) 02:58, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Much better.
71.250.72.203 (
talk) —Preceding
undated comment added
02:39, 5 August 2009 (UTC).
Refined definition. Lager is characterized by low temperature fermentation and conditioning. Mashing and boiling are hot. Also provided a citation.
Dr Thermo (
talk)
20:02, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
I can't sound like I know anything about beer unless I know if 'lager' is pronounced with a long or short 'a'. I don't know anything about pronunciation stylization, so I'll be unbold and ask someone else to do it. -Keith (Hypergeek14) Talk 20:50, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
It depends where you come from. If you live in London or the South East of the UK you would probably pronounce it almost as "lorger". In Australia it is pronounced with a long "broad a" and sounds like "laaager". I have heard some regional USA accents that use that broad "a" as well. In Scotland it would generally be pronounced with a short a, sounding a bit like "lagger" -- MichaelGG ( talk) 00:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Rtdrury ( talk) 01:16, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
The origin of the lager yeast has apparently been solved. See 500 years ago, yeast's epic journey gave rise to lager beer. Mateat ( talk) 23:07, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Problem solved? Well, some questions remain. Columbus came to America in 1492. He was the first European to make the journey as we still believe. How could Patagonian yeast have come to Bavaria before Columbus? The PNAS article should tell us (it doesn't). Bavarian brewing regulations from 1486 (and arguably even earlier regulations, but that's contentious) show that lager-brewing was already practiced at that time (see Karin Hackel-Stehr: "Das Brauwesen in Bayern vom 14. bis 16. Jahrhundert, insbesondere die Entstehung und Entwicklung des Reinheitsgebotes (1516)" Dissertation, Berlin 1987, pp. 77, 82, 89). It is nice to show a map with a galleon traveling from Patagonia to Europe in the 15th century (see the physorg link). However, Patagonia was much later reached by Europeans than the Caribbean (Columbus' destination). There was no traffic between Patagonia and Europe in the 15th century.
unsigned comment added by Ruschu ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Any idea why Nazi death camps like Auschwitz are referred to as Lagers? For example by Auschwitz survivor Primo Levy?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.161.48.158 ( talk) 18:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Unlike English the german language is not very precise in its vocabulary and has to composite at least two words to give a clearly differentiated meaning. Lager therefore can be used for storage (Vorratslager), for camp (Zeltlager), for bearings (Radlager), for deposit (Lagerstätte), for abutment (Widerlager), for description of a political party (konservatives Lager), and in poetic language even for bed (Nachtlager). And with prefixes it gets even more confusing: siege (Belagerung), sedimentation (Ablagerung), transfer (Verlagerung) or outsourcing (Auslagerung). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.115.119.237 ( talk) 19:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
This article is not very well written and it needs to be improved.
The first thing I need to point out is that it does not clearly classifies lager types or, if it does, the classification is somewhat scattered. Personally, I would prefer to see a classification chart to clearly show something like this:
Another thing that would really help would be to associate each type of lager with at least 3 commonly sold brands. When I think of lager, I think of Sapporo, Zipfer, Grolsch, Spaten or Forst. It really would help to place some of these names next to each type of lager. That would be more informative and clear any doubt about what lager really means, especially in countries where the difference among beers is not understood and beer is just a generic term for a bunch of different things.
ICE77 ( talk) 19:12, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
Since I left my previous comment, more than 2 years ago, I haven't seen the introduction of a tree for the styles of lager beers with examples so I added the above to the article with two names for the pilsner. You are welcome to expand the list by adding additional examples but I would not clutter with more than 5 examples.
I am not sure the "Vienna Lager" is even a style. I would be inclined to say that it's just a geographical classification and not really a style.
Finally, I would be curious to know under what styles the followings would follow: Sapporo, Zipfer, Grolsch, Spaten or Forst.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:11, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Is there a difference between "lager" and "ale" that is tastable? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 18:49, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
There is a huge difference in flavor. Try a Pilsner Urquell (lager) and a Newcastle Brown Ale (ale). You will see the differene is huge.
ICE77 ( talk) 21:53, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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The etymology section doesn't really explain the origin of the term, only meanings. 2600:1700:CA10:18A0:B813:816A:C5B9:53E3 ( talk) 03:45, 24 September 2022 (UTC)