La Peau de chagrin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 28, 2009. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " Did you know?" column on May 31, 2008. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Criticisms:
There's an awful lot of general information about Balzac's career here, which I would think would belong in the main page on Balzac.
The material that's actually about the novel is somewhat lost in information about the role of the novel in Balzac's career.
The first version of this page included a quotation from the novel to explain it's theme. Why was the quotation deleted?
-- Doom ( talk) 06:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
(undent) Okay, but I'd like to take it to FAC before too long, and I'd like to resolve this before that happens. – Scartol • Tok 10:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Since the feedback has been almost unanimously "it's fine either way", I'd like to leave it as it is for simplicity's sake, if you don't mind terribly. I've composed two other Balzac FAs in the chronological style, and I'd just as soon keep going in this manner. – Scartol • Tok 17:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
According to Sunstein, "Balzac, who had been influenced by Frankenstein in his Peau de chagrin, cited [Mary Shelley] and Ann Radcliffe as proof that women outdo men in imaginative invention." (Sunstein, Emily W. Mary Shelley: Romance and Reality. Boston: Little, Brown and Co. (1989), 366) - I wonder if we can find more on the Frankenstein connection? Awadewit ( talk) 17:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, last time we had a Balzac TFA ( the article on the man himself), it was a right gruesome vandalfest. Let's see how bad it gets this time. Thanks in advance to all the counter-vandalism soldiers on the front line! Scartol • Tok 00:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Lots of questions from a curious mind, sorry :) What was the reception abroad? Did the novel receive any critical attention in other European countries, or elsewhere, upon its launch? I know Balzac ended up having a significant influence on both British and Russian literature, for example; did he only start to be noticed there later once his reputation in France was secure, or did the fact this publication caused such a stir in France raise his international profile? How long was it before the first major translations of this work appeared (I suppose I am thinking particularly of the first major English translation, and how it was received critically and in sales terms, but I suppose Russian and German translations, for instance, would also be of interest)? On a slightly different note, has modern critical reception been generally positive, now that the book can be viewed as part of Balzac's complete oeuvre? Although its fantastical elements may not be particularly critical to its literary value, they do presumably make it stick out among Balzac's complete work in a way that contemporary reviewers would not have been able to predict. In retrospect has this work been seen as relatively immature, or representative of Balzac's developed style? What features, if any, distinguish this book from the rest of the Comedie humaine?-- 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 01:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
In the interest of avoiding a series of short, choppy paragraphs, I combined the different parts of the "Influence" section. Soon afterwards, Pol098 split it up again. Rather than engage in an edit war, it seems better for us to discuss it here.
While I understand the desire to divide bits of info into different topics, I feel that we must avoid a series of one- and two-sentence paragraphs, and we should combine the discussions of various interpretations and adaptations into one paragraph. What do other folks think? Scartol • Tok 13:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Presumably the title is a pun? Yet the article doesn't mention this anywhere. Readers who know French might get this; but readers who don't know French might either a) assume that chagrin has the same meaning as in English; or b) guess (based on their similar sounds) that chagrin is French for shagreen. The article should address the title. Doops | talk 16:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be an overt connection between this story and Balzac's view on orgasm, that it drained his creative powers. Here is an excerpt from the journal of Edmond De Goncourt, via the Little Brown book of Anecdote:
"I have had happily confirmed the confidences of Gavarni on the economical manner in which Balzac dispensed his sperm. Lovey-dovey and amorous play, up to ejaculation, would be all right, but only up to ejaculation. Sperm to him meant emission of purest creative substance, and therefore a filtering, a loss through the member, of a potential artistic creation. I don't know what occasion, what unfortunate circumstance caused him to ignore his pet theory, but he arrived at Latouche's once, exclaiming 'This morning I lost a novel.'"
Anyway, I'll leave it to wikipedians who have more expertise and interest in these matters to determine whether, where and how to insert this thematic connection into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.172.61 ( talk) 18:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part which portrayed La Peau de chagrin as "what boosted his career" and "made him known". Honoré de Balzac became known because of his work(first volumes) "La Comédie Humaine"(1815-1848), not due to La Peau de chagrin-- Sarandioti ( talk) 10:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Somebody added the statement "In 1960 Croatian animator Vladimir Kristl made an animated short entitled Šagrenska koža (The Piece of Shagreen Leather) inspired by Balzac's novel" to the "Influence" section. This seems noteworthy in the sense that Kristl was a noted animator, and this is the only point in the article where there is a suggestion of a filmed (even if short) adaptation of the novel.
While I'm fairly certain from rooting around online that Vladimir Kristl did indeed create an animated short Šagrenska koža based on La Peau de chagrin, I can't find a satisfactory reference for it. Somebody added a "reference" (although not properly formatted as a web cite, e.g. date of last access not given) to IMDB, but the linked entry doesn't quite confirm what it needs to. "Vlado" Kristl is given as the director on IMDB - definitely the same person, but we do have an article at Vladimir Kristl so it's not clear which way the name should be given. The IMDB entry also doesn't confirm that Kristl is Croatian, although perhaps (?) that can be treated as uncontentious. The date 1960 does appear in the IMDB entry (but I'm not sure whether this corresponds to year of release, or year of creation - my own ignorance about IMDB more than anything). The big problem is that the title Šagrenska koža does not appear at all on the IMDB entry, so it doesn't reference the statement that actually appears in the article. In fact the title is given as Le peau de chagrin (with Balzac listed as the writer responsible for the story), which at least confirms the link to the novel. But I can't believe that a film would be released under a French title which gets the definite article wrong (it should be "La", not "Le").
To muddy the waters there is apparently a duplicate entry on IMDB, with the title "Sagrenska koza" (which unfortunately doesn't confirm the Croatian diacritics in the statement added to the article, but "The Piece of Shagreen Leather" is given as the alternative English title, so this seems to be the same thing). There are a couple of discrepancies - one of these is listed as nine minutes long, the other as eleven - but the director and year are given as the same. Unfortunately the link to Balzac is not made explicit other than the fact that the English title is a direct translation of La peau de chagrin.
Does anybody possess a reliable source (I suspect in practice this means "not IMDB") that shows that in 1960, the Croatian animator Vladimir (or "Vlado" - which is the way we should refer to him?) Kristl made an animated short entitled Šagrenska koža (or, possibly depending on source consulted, The Piece of Shagreen Leather, or La peau de chagrin, or more unbelievably, Le peau de chagrin) and that this short was based on, or inspired by, the Balzac novel La peau de chagrin? 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 16:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps nobody related to this subject will find this interesting, but we were having this discussion on another discussion page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Writing_systems#The_mystery_of_the_writing_that_is_not_Sanskrit.
The Arabic portrayed here is not only frequently misspelled (it really would have to be to be coherently and completely Arabic) but the translation in Balzac is also way off. I provided mine, a very literal translation (as literal as you can get with words that do not seem to exist), on the other discussion page, but I thought it might be interesting to note that the French translation provided in Balzac can not be correct. Msheflin ( talk) 01:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on La Peau de chagrin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:23, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
La Peau de chagrin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 28, 2009. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " Did you know?" column on May 31, 2008. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Criticisms:
There's an awful lot of general information about Balzac's career here, which I would think would belong in the main page on Balzac.
The material that's actually about the novel is somewhat lost in information about the role of the novel in Balzac's career.
The first version of this page included a quotation from the novel to explain it's theme. Why was the quotation deleted?
-- Doom ( talk) 06:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
(undent) Okay, but I'd like to take it to FAC before too long, and I'd like to resolve this before that happens. – Scartol • Tok 10:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Since the feedback has been almost unanimously "it's fine either way", I'd like to leave it as it is for simplicity's sake, if you don't mind terribly. I've composed two other Balzac FAs in the chronological style, and I'd just as soon keep going in this manner. – Scartol • Tok 17:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:14, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
According to Sunstein, "Balzac, who had been influenced by Frankenstein in his Peau de chagrin, cited [Mary Shelley] and Ann Radcliffe as proof that women outdo men in imaginative invention." (Sunstein, Emily W. Mary Shelley: Romance and Reality. Boston: Little, Brown and Co. (1989), 366) - I wonder if we can find more on the Frankenstein connection? Awadewit ( talk) 17:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Well, last time we had a Balzac TFA ( the article on the man himself), it was a right gruesome vandalfest. Let's see how bad it gets this time. Thanks in advance to all the counter-vandalism soldiers on the front line! Scartol • Tok 00:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Lots of questions from a curious mind, sorry :) What was the reception abroad? Did the novel receive any critical attention in other European countries, or elsewhere, upon its launch? I know Balzac ended up having a significant influence on both British and Russian literature, for example; did he only start to be noticed there later once his reputation in France was secure, or did the fact this publication caused such a stir in France raise his international profile? How long was it before the first major translations of this work appeared (I suppose I am thinking particularly of the first major English translation, and how it was received critically and in sales terms, but I suppose Russian and German translations, for instance, would also be of interest)? On a slightly different note, has modern critical reception been generally positive, now that the book can be viewed as part of Balzac's complete oeuvre? Although its fantastical elements may not be particularly critical to its literary value, they do presumably make it stick out among Balzac's complete work in a way that contemporary reviewers would not have been able to predict. In retrospect has this work been seen as relatively immature, or representative of Balzac's developed style? What features, if any, distinguish this book from the rest of the Comedie humaine?-- 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 01:14, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
In the interest of avoiding a series of short, choppy paragraphs, I combined the different parts of the "Influence" section. Soon afterwards, Pol098 split it up again. Rather than engage in an edit war, it seems better for us to discuss it here.
While I understand the desire to divide bits of info into different topics, I feel that we must avoid a series of one- and two-sentence paragraphs, and we should combine the discussions of various interpretations and adaptations into one paragraph. What do other folks think? Scartol • Tok 13:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Presumably the title is a pun? Yet the article doesn't mention this anywhere. Readers who know French might get this; but readers who don't know French might either a) assume that chagrin has the same meaning as in English; or b) guess (based on their similar sounds) that chagrin is French for shagreen. The article should address the title. Doops | talk 16:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be an overt connection between this story and Balzac's view on orgasm, that it drained his creative powers. Here is an excerpt from the journal of Edmond De Goncourt, via the Little Brown book of Anecdote:
"I have had happily confirmed the confidences of Gavarni on the economical manner in which Balzac dispensed his sperm. Lovey-dovey and amorous play, up to ejaculation, would be all right, but only up to ejaculation. Sperm to him meant emission of purest creative substance, and therefore a filtering, a loss through the member, of a potential artistic creation. I don't know what occasion, what unfortunate circumstance caused him to ignore his pet theory, but he arrived at Latouche's once, exclaiming 'This morning I lost a novel.'"
Anyway, I'll leave it to wikipedians who have more expertise and interest in these matters to determine whether, where and how to insert this thematic connection into the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.172.61 ( talk) 18:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part which portrayed La Peau de chagrin as "what boosted his career" and "made him known". Honoré de Balzac became known because of his work(first volumes) "La Comédie Humaine"(1815-1848), not due to La Peau de chagrin-- Sarandioti ( talk) 10:21, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Somebody added the statement "In 1960 Croatian animator Vladimir Kristl made an animated short entitled Šagrenska koža (The Piece of Shagreen Leather) inspired by Balzac's novel" to the "Influence" section. This seems noteworthy in the sense that Kristl was a noted animator, and this is the only point in the article where there is a suggestion of a filmed (even if short) adaptation of the novel.
While I'm fairly certain from rooting around online that Vladimir Kristl did indeed create an animated short Šagrenska koža based on La Peau de chagrin, I can't find a satisfactory reference for it. Somebody added a "reference" (although not properly formatted as a web cite, e.g. date of last access not given) to IMDB, but the linked entry doesn't quite confirm what it needs to. "Vlado" Kristl is given as the director on IMDB - definitely the same person, but we do have an article at Vladimir Kristl so it's not clear which way the name should be given. The IMDB entry also doesn't confirm that Kristl is Croatian, although perhaps (?) that can be treated as uncontentious. The date 1960 does appear in the IMDB entry (but I'm not sure whether this corresponds to year of release, or year of creation - my own ignorance about IMDB more than anything). The big problem is that the title Šagrenska koža does not appear at all on the IMDB entry, so it doesn't reference the statement that actually appears in the article. In fact the title is given as Le peau de chagrin (with Balzac listed as the writer responsible for the story), which at least confirms the link to the novel. But I can't believe that a film would be released under a French title which gets the definite article wrong (it should be "La", not "Le").
To muddy the waters there is apparently a duplicate entry on IMDB, with the title "Sagrenska koza" (which unfortunately doesn't confirm the Croatian diacritics in the statement added to the article, but "The Piece of Shagreen Leather" is given as the alternative English title, so this seems to be the same thing). There are a couple of discrepancies - one of these is listed as nine minutes long, the other as eleven - but the director and year are given as the same. Unfortunately the link to Balzac is not made explicit other than the fact that the English title is a direct translation of La peau de chagrin.
Does anybody possess a reliable source (I suspect in practice this means "not IMDB") that shows that in 1960, the Croatian animator Vladimir (or "Vlado" - which is the way we should refer to him?) Kristl made an animated short entitled Šagrenska koža (or, possibly depending on source consulted, The Piece of Shagreen Leather, or La peau de chagrin, or more unbelievably, Le peau de chagrin) and that this short was based on, or inspired by, the Balzac novel La peau de chagrin? 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 16:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps nobody related to this subject will find this interesting, but we were having this discussion on another discussion page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Writing_systems#The_mystery_of_the_writing_that_is_not_Sanskrit.
The Arabic portrayed here is not only frequently misspelled (it really would have to be to be coherently and completely Arabic) but the translation in Balzac is also way off. I provided mine, a very literal translation (as literal as you can get with words that do not seem to exist), on the other discussion page, but I thought it might be interesting to note that the French translation provided in Balzac can not be correct. Msheflin ( talk) 01:13, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on La Peau de chagrin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:23, 24 September 2017 (UTC)