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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I submitted this article and made a mistake in the capitalization of "Cuba" in the title. As I am a new user, I am not able to change the title myself. Franklin Moore 19:18, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
The issue of the raid on El Periquitón was removed from the article as being unconfirmed. After some editing I have restored it. The raid was widely reported and has been cited, not only by countless gay new services but also the United States Government and the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. While the government source does not mention the arrest of Pedro Almodovar and Jean Paul Gaultier. That detail was also widely reported in Europe and in the United States (without a reference to its being unconfirmed) by the Dallas Morning News. Additionally, the US Government report contains an extensive list of sources, many of which also include a very detailed account of the event. A partial list of the references are as follows:
UNCHR [ [1]]
US Citzenship and Immigration Service - U.S. Department of Homeland Security [ [2]]
Cuban American National Foundation [ [3]]
Plan Notici@as [ [4]]
Cubanet [ [5]]
Zunega APIC reprinted in translation at Florida International University's web site[ [6]]
Niuews Bank [ [7]]
Dallas Morning News - avaliable for purchase [ "Gays%20struggling%20to%20find%20a%20place%20in%20macho,%20authoritarian%20Cuba")&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no]
Does anyone have information about "Operacion P"? Supposedly starting in 1960, it was a government program targetting "pimps, prostitutes and pedofiles". However all the online references i can find are from less-than-rigorous websites with an axe to grind, or have got their info from such sites. ntennis 01:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
The introduction of the article notes "it is widely acknowledged that during this period, Cuba was among the most active persecutors of homosexuals in the western hemisphere." This soulds a bit weasely, and needs a citation (or two). It shouldn't be that hard, given that it is "widely acknowledged". And out of curiousity, which country is the least active persecutor of homosexuals in the western hemisphere? And how about the eastern hemisphere? Patiwat 07:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is hopelessly out of date by the way, I understand that many changes have occured since 1997. It needs to be updated asap.-- Zleitzen 10:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
(caught in edit conflict before reading the above) I completely understand the difficulties of getting information about Cuba, Franklin, and my previous post was far too sweeping in it's judgement. There is obviously good research here. What I mean is this - and this is one of the key problems with Cuba that dogs my editing on the subject as well - The longevity of the present Government means that a whole load of material is lumped together, and given a context of post-revolution life. Whereas we're actually referring to a period of 47 years. Starting from a time when homosexuality was illegal in Britain etc, to a time where homosexual acts are still illegal in neighbouring Caribbean countries. By jumping around 5 decades in the first paragraph there is an impression that all these things occur concurrently under the revolution. My first suggestion is divide the sections chronologically. -- Zleitzen 07:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Here's one quote from Castro in 1992 which typically blurs the issues, as is the Cuban fashion -
There is the National Center for Sex Education which amongst other things attempts to iradicate homophobic attitudes in Cuba. [15] This piece [16] describes Cuba's homophobia as a social problem stating "The last discriminatory provisions targetting homosexuals were removed from Cuba's penal code when it was reformed in 1997." which is worth a read. Our article refers to "recent crackdowns" which were actually in 1997, nine years ago. More links to follow, I imagine.-- Zleitzen 07:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm also a little perturbed by a review in Amazon being used as a source - I don't think that's applicable for an encylopedia. Regardless of the merits of the writer elsewhere there are way too many variables and problems, for one - his description of Cuba's "typically Stalinist state apparatus" indicates that he's not a reliable source on the political structure and governance of the island. -- Zleitzen 23:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
On whether the Communist party allows homosexuals, there was something in the link I placed on the page a couple of days ago but I can't remember where it is or what it said. -- Zleitzen 12:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Funnily enough I was watching an interview with Castro from 2004 as general research and he was probed about this issue - he replied (roughly translated) "We have made many mistakes, at the beginning of the revolution we had a male chauvinistic spirit, and much prejudices of the gays, that is something that has been fading away in the passing of years, until people are hardly prejudiced. It was hard, believe me, because we were a male chauvinistic society and it was part of our ancestry. We have had to learn to change these values". Anyway, I'd like to clearly establish the chronology of this, bringing together the various verifiable pointers from 1959 to (say) 1997 and have them clearly presented. My feeling is that the general arch of this chronology is the following
What I'll do is create a sandbox to write a history section over the next week, incorporating some of what is presently on the page. Then present it here for appraisal. Does that sound workable? -- Zleitzen 14:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone object to a page move to LGBT rights in Cuba? The page already has stuff relating to gender, and i'd like to add more. There's a precedent too: LGBT rights in Jamaica. ntennis 17:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Good enough for me. Now done. ntennis 03:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I've added a report from the IGLA and restuctured the page somewhat to take account of the chronology and changes that have occured. More chronological formatting will follow.-- Zleitzen 21:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Ntennis, you've changed the lead somewhat.
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This came from protests from the nation's growing evangelical community. [17]. The pressure was too great. 68.47.64.121 ( talk) 15:20, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
No, "Historically, public antipathy towards LGBT people was high, reflecting regional norms. This has eased since the 1990s." is not about the state. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 13:27, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
Can anybody find a source for this claim in the section "Negative attitudes during most of the 1970s"? The only one provided is a blog called "TOTALITARIAN IMAGES", which does seem to host some primary sources but none relating to this alleged second period of systematic internment. I initially tried to find other sources (principally looking at Guerra, Lillian (2010) though I'd skimmed a few others referenced in this article as well) to see if descriptions of the conditions could be verified, but I can't actually find any reference to the camps continuing in any form, and the Wikipedia article on UMAP camps makes no mention of them continuing in another form post-1968.
If nobody can find a corroborating source on this I'll edit to remove the part alleging they continued; the rest of the paragraph seems to be more accurately rolled into the preceding subsection on the UMAPs camps themselves anyway.
Chaste Krassley ( talk) 08:36, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 29 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): OSabates ( article contribs).
The source only links to Cuba approving same-sex marriage, yet gay marriage is legal in most of Latin America and many of those countries approved it way before Cuba did. Pol Cəl ( talk) 21:05, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
It’s a little crazy that the only mention of the family code is in the lede of this article. I am fairly certain it deserves mention in the “history” section at least. Aside from the lede, the rest of the text in the page still largely gives the impression that Cuba today has laws which discriminate against lgbt Cubans even though the opposite has been true for almost 18 months now. 74.109.240.116 ( talk) 21:40, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
LGBT rights in Cuba article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ambermrush. Peer reviewers: Melisawesome, 18jkalmar, Katherineamerica.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I submitted this article and made a mistake in the capitalization of "Cuba" in the title. As I am a new user, I am not able to change the title myself. Franklin Moore 19:18, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
The issue of the raid on El Periquitón was removed from the article as being unconfirmed. After some editing I have restored it. The raid was widely reported and has been cited, not only by countless gay new services but also the United States Government and the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. While the government source does not mention the arrest of Pedro Almodovar and Jean Paul Gaultier. That detail was also widely reported in Europe and in the United States (without a reference to its being unconfirmed) by the Dallas Morning News. Additionally, the US Government report contains an extensive list of sources, many of which also include a very detailed account of the event. A partial list of the references are as follows:
UNCHR [ [1]]
US Citzenship and Immigration Service - U.S. Department of Homeland Security [ [2]]
Cuban American National Foundation [ [3]]
Plan Notici@as [ [4]]
Cubanet [ [5]]
Zunega APIC reprinted in translation at Florida International University's web site[ [6]]
Niuews Bank [ [7]]
Dallas Morning News - avaliable for purchase [ "Gays%20struggling%20to%20find%20a%20place%20in%20macho,%20authoritarian%20Cuba")&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no]
Does anyone have information about "Operacion P"? Supposedly starting in 1960, it was a government program targetting "pimps, prostitutes and pedofiles". However all the online references i can find are from less-than-rigorous websites with an axe to grind, or have got their info from such sites. ntennis 01:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
The introduction of the article notes "it is widely acknowledged that during this period, Cuba was among the most active persecutors of homosexuals in the western hemisphere." This soulds a bit weasely, and needs a citation (or two). It shouldn't be that hard, given that it is "widely acknowledged". And out of curiousity, which country is the least active persecutor of homosexuals in the western hemisphere? And how about the eastern hemisphere? Patiwat 07:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is hopelessly out of date by the way, I understand that many changes have occured since 1997. It needs to be updated asap.-- Zleitzen 10:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
(caught in edit conflict before reading the above) I completely understand the difficulties of getting information about Cuba, Franklin, and my previous post was far too sweeping in it's judgement. There is obviously good research here. What I mean is this - and this is one of the key problems with Cuba that dogs my editing on the subject as well - The longevity of the present Government means that a whole load of material is lumped together, and given a context of post-revolution life. Whereas we're actually referring to a period of 47 years. Starting from a time when homosexuality was illegal in Britain etc, to a time where homosexual acts are still illegal in neighbouring Caribbean countries. By jumping around 5 decades in the first paragraph there is an impression that all these things occur concurrently under the revolution. My first suggestion is divide the sections chronologically. -- Zleitzen 07:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Here's one quote from Castro in 1992 which typically blurs the issues, as is the Cuban fashion -
There is the National Center for Sex Education which amongst other things attempts to iradicate homophobic attitudes in Cuba. [15] This piece [16] describes Cuba's homophobia as a social problem stating "The last discriminatory provisions targetting homosexuals were removed from Cuba's penal code when it was reformed in 1997." which is worth a read. Our article refers to "recent crackdowns" which were actually in 1997, nine years ago. More links to follow, I imagine.-- Zleitzen 07:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm also a little perturbed by a review in Amazon being used as a source - I don't think that's applicable for an encylopedia. Regardless of the merits of the writer elsewhere there are way too many variables and problems, for one - his description of Cuba's "typically Stalinist state apparatus" indicates that he's not a reliable source on the political structure and governance of the island. -- Zleitzen 23:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
On whether the Communist party allows homosexuals, there was something in the link I placed on the page a couple of days ago but I can't remember where it is or what it said. -- Zleitzen 12:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Funnily enough I was watching an interview with Castro from 2004 as general research and he was probed about this issue - he replied (roughly translated) "We have made many mistakes, at the beginning of the revolution we had a male chauvinistic spirit, and much prejudices of the gays, that is something that has been fading away in the passing of years, until people are hardly prejudiced. It was hard, believe me, because we were a male chauvinistic society and it was part of our ancestry. We have had to learn to change these values". Anyway, I'd like to clearly establish the chronology of this, bringing together the various verifiable pointers from 1959 to (say) 1997 and have them clearly presented. My feeling is that the general arch of this chronology is the following
What I'll do is create a sandbox to write a history section over the next week, incorporating some of what is presently on the page. Then present it here for appraisal. Does that sound workable? -- Zleitzen 14:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone object to a page move to LGBT rights in Cuba? The page already has stuff relating to gender, and i'd like to add more. There's a precedent too: LGBT rights in Jamaica. ntennis 17:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Good enough for me. Now done. ntennis 03:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I've added a report from the IGLA and restuctured the page somewhat to take account of the chronology and changes that have occured. More chronological formatting will follow.-- Zleitzen 21:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Ntennis, you've changed the lead somewhat.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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LGBT rights in Cuba. Please take a moment to review
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cbignore}}
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:10, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:24, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
This came from protests from the nation's growing evangelical community. [17]. The pressure was too great. 68.47.64.121 ( talk) 15:20, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
No, "Historically, public antipathy towards LGBT people was high, reflecting regional norms. This has eased since the 1990s." is not about the state. SNAAAAKE!! ( talk) 13:27, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
Can anybody find a source for this claim in the section "Negative attitudes during most of the 1970s"? The only one provided is a blog called "TOTALITARIAN IMAGES", which does seem to host some primary sources but none relating to this alleged second period of systematic internment. I initially tried to find other sources (principally looking at Guerra, Lillian (2010) though I'd skimmed a few others referenced in this article as well) to see if descriptions of the conditions could be verified, but I can't actually find any reference to the camps continuing in any form, and the Wikipedia article on UMAP camps makes no mention of them continuing in another form post-1968.
If nobody can find a corroborating source on this I'll edit to remove the part alleging they continued; the rest of the paragraph seems to be more accurately rolled into the preceding subsection on the UMAPs camps themselves anyway.
Chaste Krassley ( talk) 08:36, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2022 and 29 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): OSabates ( article contribs).
The source only links to Cuba approving same-sex marriage, yet gay marriage is legal in most of Latin America and many of those countries approved it way before Cuba did. Pol Cəl ( talk) 21:05, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
It’s a little crazy that the only mention of the family code is in the lede of this article. I am fairly certain it deserves mention in the “history” section at least. Aside from the lede, the rest of the text in the page still largely gives the impression that Cuba today has laws which discriminate against lgbt Cubans even though the opposite has been true for almost 18 months now. 74.109.240.116 ( talk) 21:40, 8 February 2024 (UTC)