![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
The title ordination of homosexuals was selected because it refers to sexually active homosexuals, as opposed to people who would have mild same-sex attractions. The Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, as well as the various Protestant denominations, have historically made a distinction between the concepts of homosexuals and LGBT people, because they have argued that in many cases, it is possible for chaste people with same-sex attractions to become priests if their homosexuality is not deeply rooted. Nevertheless, the real debate that is shaking the Anglican Church today is whether to ordain sexually active LGBT people, who are often called homosexuals, as opposed to the historic practice of tolerating chaste LGBTs. ADM ( talk) 11:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there an agreed policy against using the word homosexual in several Wikipedia article titles ? I have been looking at other entries and it seems like there is such an agreement. ADM ( talk) 02:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Anyways, I think that the title ordination of LGBT clergy is a better title than ordination of gays and lesbians because it doesn't really conflate the disagreement about the ordaining gay clergy with the one about the ordination of women. Many women who originally wanted to be ordained were not homosexual and were in fact heterosexual. So, if the article does end up talking about women that are ordained in the Episcopal Church, it should only describe those that have same-sex attractions or that are in same-sex relations. ADM ( talk) 02:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches have a specific theology of ordination which apparently distinguishes between ordinations and blessings. Whereas ordination confers a specific cultural belonging, making baptized laymen members of a priesthood, a blessing is just an expression of Christian charity that does not necessarily have this integrating function. Also, it should be noted that the Catholic Church does not regard Anglican or Episcopal ministers in general as having been validly ordained. This view is based on Leo XIII's encyclical Apostolicae Curae, which essentially equates Anglican clergy with Catholic laypeople. ADM ( talk) 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The main article ordination discusses ordiantion in many non-Christian churches. However, this article treats ordination solely in the context of Christianity. That's fine if the article's scope is explicitly limited, but at the moment it isn't.
I also agree that the use of "homosexual" in the title is inappropriate, and ADM's argument above in its favor is subjective and vague -- the term "homosexual" is not normally used to exclude the celibate, nor is ordination of celibate LGBT by any means a settled question in every Christian church: the Catholic church has recently decided that homosexual desires are enough to bar men from ordination as priests.
Dybryd ( talk) 19:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) If the article is intended to cover all religions, it should have its large christianity only navbox removed. Otherwise, i think it should be renamed (again!) to match its contents, so adding the word "christian" in there somewhere. I would think with the dozens (hundreds?) of Christian denominations, a whole article could be written just on that. Yob Mod 14:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
In european countries (Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway,...) most of the lutheran, reformed and united churches ordain openly LGBT clergy. GLGermann ( talk) 20:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC) The german lutheran, united and reformed churches in the organisation Evangelical Church in Germany ordain openly LGBT christian clergy. The Protestant Church in the Netherlands ordains openly LGBT christian clergy. The lutheran national churches Danish National Church in Denmark and the Church of Norway in Norway ordain openly LGBT christian clergy. GLGermann ( talk) 20:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
September 2002 (german)] 90.187.31.228 ( talk) 22:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America currently decided in August 2009 in Minneapolis to accept gay clergy in sexually active monogamous relationships.
After bishop Gene Robinson in New Hampshire now Mary Douglas Glasspool was elected as bishop in Los Angeles. 92.252.58.29 ( talk) 20:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Delegates at the general assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted in Minneapolis to advance a proposal to allow gay clergy. 92.252.90.32 ( talk) 18:52, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
also here a good link for it. 92.252.70.220 ( talk) 06:40, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Open LGBT clergy is also in Switzerland in Swiss Reformed Churches allowed. 92.252.90.32 ( talk) 19:13, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In anglican Church of England open homosexual bishops are allowed.
Anglican Church of England allows open gay celibacy priests and bishops 85.8.119.218 ( talk) 23:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Also Church of Scotland allows open gay ministers. In 2009, already british Quakers openend church for LGBT ordination and said "yes" to same-sex marriages.
In July 2011 Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada allows open homosexual clergy and blessings for same-sex unions. 188.118.140.75 ( talk) 07:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Moravian Church discussed in 2010 at synode ordination of homosexual people in committed relationships. 92.252.89.195 ( talk) 19:44, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
There is no reason to include the LDS church in this article, because it is intended to discuss churches which ordain LGBT clergy. The LDS church does not do this, so any content referencing them is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.88.214 ( talk) 13:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
In 2011, Church in Wales gives pensions for gay partners of anglican clergy. The Church of England General Synod approved the change in 2010.
In Germany all lutheran, reformed and united churches in Evangelical Church in Germany ordain LGBT people. In Germany in these churches homosexual ministers can live together with their partners in civil unions together, for example
Germantv11 ( talk) 23:17, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Also in German Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Saxony homosexual lutheran ministers can live in civil union together. 188.118.150.155 ( talk) 09:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
178.3.20.153 ( talk) 14:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I added the synthesis tag due to "most moderate and liberal Protestant churches either already ordain...". That's a pretty bold statement. By population, most of the Protestant churches at one end and in the middle of the scale ordain openly gay priests? Or are moderate and liberal churches being defined as the ones that ordain gay priests? Citations. And other issues. Openverse ( talk) 10:43, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:55, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. No objections after over a week. Cúchullain t/ c 14:17, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy →
LGBT clergy in Christianity – More convenient per
WP:Consistency.
Chicbyaccident (
talk)
20:46, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on LGBT clergy in Christianity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:06, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on LGBT clergy in Christianity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.jusnews.co.uk/2011/02/church-of-englands-first-transsexual-priest-god-cares-about-meWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:18, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Dear editors, perhaps we could rephraze the lead section to be less American-centric, for example by modifying the sentence that starts with "Internationally" and names churches around the World.-- Jetam2 ( talk) 12:29, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
The title ordination of homosexuals was selected because it refers to sexually active homosexuals, as opposed to people who would have mild same-sex attractions. The Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, as well as the various Protestant denominations, have historically made a distinction between the concepts of homosexuals and LGBT people, because they have argued that in many cases, it is possible for chaste people with same-sex attractions to become priests if their homosexuality is not deeply rooted. Nevertheless, the real debate that is shaking the Anglican Church today is whether to ordain sexually active LGBT people, who are often called homosexuals, as opposed to the historic practice of tolerating chaste LGBTs. ADM ( talk) 11:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there an agreed policy against using the word homosexual in several Wikipedia article titles ? I have been looking at other entries and it seems like there is such an agreement. ADM ( talk) 02:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
Anyways, I think that the title ordination of LGBT clergy is a better title than ordination of gays and lesbians because it doesn't really conflate the disagreement about the ordaining gay clergy with the one about the ordination of women. Many women who originally wanted to be ordained were not homosexual and were in fact heterosexual. So, if the article does end up talking about women that are ordained in the Episcopal Church, it should only describe those that have same-sex attractions or that are in same-sex relations. ADM ( talk) 02:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches have a specific theology of ordination which apparently distinguishes between ordinations and blessings. Whereas ordination confers a specific cultural belonging, making baptized laymen members of a priesthood, a blessing is just an expression of Christian charity that does not necessarily have this integrating function. Also, it should be noted that the Catholic Church does not regard Anglican or Episcopal ministers in general as having been validly ordained. This view is based on Leo XIII's encyclical Apostolicae Curae, which essentially equates Anglican clergy with Catholic laypeople. ADM ( talk) 02:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
The main article ordination discusses ordiantion in many non-Christian churches. However, this article treats ordination solely in the context of Christianity. That's fine if the article's scope is explicitly limited, but at the moment it isn't.
I also agree that the use of "homosexual" in the title is inappropriate, and ADM's argument above in its favor is subjective and vague -- the term "homosexual" is not normally used to exclude the celibate, nor is ordination of celibate LGBT by any means a settled question in every Christian church: the Catholic church has recently decided that homosexual desires are enough to bar men from ordination as priests.
Dybryd ( talk) 19:11, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
(outdent) If the article is intended to cover all religions, it should have its large christianity only navbox removed. Otherwise, i think it should be renamed (again!) to match its contents, so adding the word "christian" in there somewhere. I would think with the dozens (hundreds?) of Christian denominations, a whole article could be written just on that. Yob Mod 14:04, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
In european countries (Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Norway,...) most of the lutheran, reformed and united churches ordain openly LGBT clergy. GLGermann ( talk) 20:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC) The german lutheran, united and reformed churches in the organisation Evangelical Church in Germany ordain openly LGBT christian clergy. The Protestant Church in the Netherlands ordains openly LGBT christian clergy. The lutheran national churches Danish National Church in Denmark and the Church of Norway in Norway ordain openly LGBT christian clergy. GLGermann ( talk) 20:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
September 2002 (german)] 90.187.31.228 ( talk) 22:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America currently decided in August 2009 in Minneapolis to accept gay clergy in sexually active monogamous relationships.
After bishop Gene Robinson in New Hampshire now Mary Douglas Glasspool was elected as bishop in Los Angeles. 92.252.58.29 ( talk) 20:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Delegates at the general assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted in Minneapolis to advance a proposal to allow gay clergy. 92.252.90.32 ( talk) 18:52, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
also here a good link for it. 92.252.70.220 ( talk) 06:40, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Open LGBT clergy is also in Switzerland in Swiss Reformed Churches allowed. 92.252.90.32 ( talk) 19:13, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
In anglican Church of England open homosexual bishops are allowed.
Anglican Church of England allows open gay celibacy priests and bishops 85.8.119.218 ( talk) 23:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Also Church of Scotland allows open gay ministers. In 2009, already british Quakers openend church for LGBT ordination and said "yes" to same-sex marriages.
In July 2011 Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada allows open homosexual clergy and blessings for same-sex unions. 188.118.140.75 ( talk) 07:55, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Moravian Church discussed in 2010 at synode ordination of homosexual people in committed relationships. 92.252.89.195 ( talk) 19:44, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
There is no reason to include the LDS church in this article, because it is intended to discuss churches which ordain LGBT clergy. The LDS church does not do this, so any content referencing them is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.23.88.214 ( talk) 13:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
In 2011, Church in Wales gives pensions for gay partners of anglican clergy. The Church of England General Synod approved the change in 2010.
In Germany all lutheran, reformed and united churches in Evangelical Church in Germany ordain LGBT people. In Germany in these churches homosexual ministers can live together with their partners in civil unions together, for example
Germantv11 ( talk) 23:17, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Also in German Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Saxony homosexual lutheran ministers can live in civil union together. 188.118.150.155 ( talk) 09:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
178.3.20.153 ( talk) 14:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I added the synthesis tag due to "most moderate and liberal Protestant churches either already ordain...". That's a pretty bold statement. By population, most of the Protestant churches at one end and in the middle of the scale ordain openly gay priests? Or are moderate and liberal churches being defined as the ones that ordain gay priests? Citations. And other issues. Openverse ( talk) 10:43, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:55, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move. No objections after over a week. Cúchullain t/ c 14:17, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Ordination of LGBT Christian clergy →
LGBT clergy in Christianity – More convenient per
WP:Consistency.
Chicbyaccident (
talk)
20:46, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on LGBT clergy in Christianity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:06, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on LGBT clergy in Christianity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.jusnews.co.uk/2011/02/church-of-englands-first-transsexual-priest-god-cares-about-meWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:18, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Dear editors, perhaps we could rephraze the lead section to be less American-centric, for example by modifying the sentence that starts with "Internationally" and names churches around the World.-- Jetam2 ( talk) 12:29, 16 January 2020 (UTC)