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I have read most of the discussions below about the "origins" (!) of the instrument. They are irrelevant. The Turkish tanbur is NOT the Persian one. I listen to and adore Ostad Elahi, but NEITHER the look nor the sound of his instrument have anything to the with those of the instrument played by Tanburi Cemil Bey and Necdet Yaşar, the two great masters of the Turkish tanbur. The Persian tanbur would be closer akin to the Turkish "Divan Sazı" which both looks like and demands a similar technique as that of the Persian tanbur; their sounds are more similar too. It follows that the question about the origins of the instrument are void of any sense. A remark on the etymology of the word can be given, but it must be distinguished from the discussion about the origins of the instruments themselves. The Turkish instrument is doubtlessly derived from the Byzantine Tambouras modified according to Turkish makams which use notes inexistent on the Byzantine scale (and vice versa of course...) and is most probably influenced in its further development by the Anatolian "bağlama", which has, in turn, its roots in Central Asia. Another remark is that, both the nationalism of my co-patriots who wrote on the page and that of the others is TIRING. This is supposed to be article about MUSIC. And the remark about Rumi... Please... He is a Persian speaking Iranian naturalized as a Seldjukide citizen. THAT'S ALL. He belongs to the world of every Turkish child as a part of his/her culture, but equally to the that of every Iranian. I'm probably not supposed say such things, but I think he would be ashamed to see that such a discussion is even possible. Yet I repeat, I ask the first person who knows how to create a disambiguation page to do it immediately. I have scanned pictures of the Turkish tanbur for upload and have much to write about the playing techniques. Thank you. Ekindedeoglu 21:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Tambur is the name used to refer to a long necked stringed instruments used in Turkish music. The tambur has a long, fretted neck, and a smaller, bowl-shaped body. It has seven strings; six of them are grouped in pairs, with a seventh lower-pitched string. It has a rich, raspy sound, and can be plucked or bowed. Tamburs are generally only played in traditional Ottoman classical music—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Tembûr is also the name of a Kurdish string instrument played in south eastern Kurdistan (region of Kirmaşan/Iranian Kurdistan). It's a sacred and mostly religious instrument used by sufis to reach the state of ecstacy in a musical tradition that is considered one of the most ancient and deep-rooted musical traditions in the world. Recently, tembûr players like Ali Akbar Moradi have begun to make it more secular and release albums containing music played by this instrument—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The tembûr is thought to be the origin of some Persian instruments such as the setar—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted this article to an earlier version. I happened to come across this article, and it seemed to be talking about a variety of instruments with similar names. It turns out that a large amount of text had been pasted in from pandura. I think perhaps that some instruments that might be called a tambura had been included, as well. I have linked to these articles from a new "See also" section. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I am admittedly not familiar with the Pandura, but Tanbur or Tanbour as used in Iran is very different from the instrument described in this article. I think this article should be expanded to clear up the ambiguity.
The basic Iranian tanbur, used mostly in sacred mystical gatherings as one post above noted, had two strings. In the 20th century, an Iranian musician by the name of Ostad Elahi added a third string to the Tanbour and perfected its repertoire. The instrument that is played in Turkish music is very different from the Iranian Tanbour (no Iranian tanbour I have ever heard of has 7 strings; there is an 8-string instrument which sounds markedly different and is called Chogur. Persian Instruments. I'm not qualified to opine on Turkish instruments, but this article is misleading for those who are looking for the Persian Tanbur that looks and sounds nothing like what has been described here. —the preceding comment is by 209.191.175.203 - 16:16, 7 April 2006: Please sign your posts!
An anonymous editor added text that was apparently copied from here. This same text had also appeared in the Pandura article (also see Talk:Pandura. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I've added the {{ Incomplete}} tag to the article because it only addresses the Turkish tanbur. From what I gather there is a similar Persian instrument with the same name (see link in "Copyright violation" section) and there may be other uses. I realize this article is already tagged as a "stub," but that generally means the content needs to be expanded. I wish to point out that the scope of the article needs to be expanded, as well (I almost added {{ globalize}} but it didn't seem quite right). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that this article be split up into different articles that discuss tanburs from different musical traditions. I'm the person that originally created this article over a year ago. I originally created it with the Turkish tanbur in mind, however over time, a number of great additions were made discusing the Persian tanbur, as well as the instrument by that name from other traditions. Now, the article has been modified enough so that it's basically a page that focuses on the Persian tanbur, with mention that it appears in other traditions.
I think it's become to confusing to have one article represent this instrument in all it's traditions, so I suggest a disambiguation page that points to different pages that discuss tanburs from different countries. I welcome any discussion on this suggestion. jeff.lopez-stuit 18:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
The last para compares the "evolution" of this instrument to "evolutionary theory of punctuated equilibrium". Man-made things do not evolve, i.e. develop spontaneously; they are developed by their designers. Besides, any man-made thing follows this kind of development: a thing is made good enough, and when the utilization of that thing outgrows its design, it is developed further (cars, computers, crockery... anything you can think of). If it needs saying at all, it would be better simply to mention that the tanbur has throughout its history been developed in phases. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.184.72.38 ( talk • contribs) 15:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
This article makes a lot of major claims about the historic nature of the tambur, but with no solid references except to a couple of websites which are obviously "pro-tanbur" sites. At least one of the editors on this article also seems to have a history of posting unreferenced information in other articles as well, so as to avoid future problems, I would like to see some additional references from more reliable sources in this article, or perhaps for it to be edited down with fewer grandiose adjectives. -- Elonka 19:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Tanbur is a Turkic instrument, it derives from the earlier "Kopuz", the Persian instrument your describing is not the Turkic Tanbur, its a totally different instrument with a different sound.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.141.50.23 ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Question: Why do all Turkish people want to own EVERYTHING from the past of other countries??? Is Mevlana Rumi Turkish? How about Tanbour? Does the language Persian come from Turkish? Is Kabob Turkish? I mean COME ON guys! (by the way I'm from Canada, But COME ON TURKISH)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.108.208.155 ( talk • contribs) 04:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Rather than arguing about this, it would be most helpful if someone would cite a verifiable source one way or the other. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, User:68.174.13.231 keeps removing all references to dombra, tambura, pandura; see diff. The article only says that the tanbur is related to the dombra (seems pretty obvious and uncontroversial) and "See also" links to tambura and pandura also seem obvious and uncontroversial. The removal seems like unsophisticated POV. I already reverted once so I am refraining from reverting again; do people here agree it should be added back? — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-28 06:06Z
Persian Kurdish Tanbur This article and photograph pertains only to the original Persian Kurdish Tanbur. NOT the Kazakhs or any other ethnic group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.13.231 ( talk • contribs)
I came across this article while RC-patrolling. I would like to request both sides to stop reverting the article and complete the discussion on the talk page itself. The distinction between the two hasnt been made clear. A seperate section would probably be appropriate. Having said that, I'm no expert on the subject, simply wanted to inform all users involved that violation of the 3-revert rules would lead to being blocked. Thanks xC | ☎ 08:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Again, 68.174.13.231, if you are claiming that Tanbur is not related to the other instruments, please say so. "This article is about instrument X" is not a valid reason to remove references other instruments, especially not when they are so closely related. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-03-08 08:12Z
Quarl, you are in violation of Wikipedia's rules. You cannot change what I write in the discussion board. This is considered vandalism. Read the rules! You are welcome to write your own opinion, but not to manipulate mine. I wrote the original article based on reading dozens of books and 30 years of research. You can also go to the Tanbur Society website www.tanbursociety.com, which is a society for the preservation and propagation of the Tanbur and you will clearly see the information is correct.
This article and photograph pertains only to the original Persian Kurdish Tanbur. NOT the Kazakhs or any other ethnic group. Dombra is not Persian or Kurdish. Maybe you should start a new section for it, but it does not belong part of this.
Wikipedia is not a place for personal attacks, but a place for learning.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.174.13.231 ( talk) 07:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
I agree with 68.174... Tanbur is 100% Kurdish/Persian, I should know, I have played it for 35 years. Hasan K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.0.30.180 ( talk • contribs)
I restored tags that were deleted prematurely months ago. Lets discuss them. Also, we have the Hittite picture, so I don't thnk it is Persian either, if that matters. Deniz T C 15:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I found out that this article was almost an exact copy of http://www.tanbursociety.com/tanbur.htm before the last few edits. It has probably been this way since September. Deniz T C 16:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I restored that version. Deniz T C 15:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
69.201.146.55, 68.174.13.231, 66.108.46.97, Johnyajohn, 12.0.30.180, 68.175.78.96, 68.175.70.126, and possibly Global.wiki, or whoever you are, please stop disruptive edits. Deniz T C 15:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
We own The Tanbur Society and the text written by K. Morgan. We give Wikipedia full permission to use the text and information. It is now in public domain. The Tanbur Society would like to preserve the history of this beautiful ancient instrument and anyone is welcome to use the information.
The Tanbur Society of New York, May 6, 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk) 08:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
We are not any other IP or johnyajohn. This is all very childish. You are welcome to send an email to The Tanbur Society and confirm that this is our IP address.
Sir, if you understand the English language, we have stated not to be used without written consent. Since we The Tanbur Society have given written consent to Wikipedia both on this page and in many emails it is absolutely fine for the text to be used. Also, you can call us or send an email and we will gladly reply. We are only interested in educating the public about this beautiful ancient instrument, not get into some strange argument about Turks and Persians. Please keep your personal and ethnic feelings aside and try to help the public. David P. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 08:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
We sent an email to the appropriate Wikipedia email address and a fax. We even spoke with a person at the main office and they said all copyright issues have been resolved. There never truly was any copyright issue since we gave permission to Wikipedia to use the text, but now we did the actions you asked for. David P. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 07:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
It is sad that Mr. "Gyrofrog" has become obsessed with us and has nothing better to do than attack everything we write. We did email and fax them and they emailed us back to okay everything. We are not the same as Johnjohn or anyone else, but if it makes you happy to think we are, good luck! With all due respect to Mr.gyrofrog, it is more than obvious your knowledge about the Persian/Kurdish Tanbur is next to 0. Anyone who knows anything about the Tanbur would laugh if they read the incorrect information you wrote. About self promotion, how can a non for profit website built to help educate others and keep a dying instrument alive be self promoting. We have only spent money to help keep a dying instrument alive, never took in a penny from anyone.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 05:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Gyrofrog, there are only three people who really know how to play the Kurdish Tanbur correctly in the United States. It is a dying instrument and you are certainly doing everything in your power to destroy its history and culture. What a shame and truly a type of crime against humanity. Instead of trying to preserve history, you are deleting the correct information and writing incorrect information about something you not nothing of. I am not johnjohn, but even if I was, WHO CARES? I just looked at his page and he has not written anything that is obscene or crazy. TanburSociety.com does not have any links to other website, galleries or for profit sites. So what is your big obsession with me and why do you have to attack almost everything that I write? Do I have to start a new section for Wiki-Stalkers?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 09:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
To 69.201.146.55: First of all, if it isn't clear from my previous comments, let me state right now that the copyright issue is not even the biggest problem with the Tanbur Society's version of the article. If OTRS were to finally respond (and it's now been over a month, by the way) and say "yes, it's absolutely and officially fine to use their text," I would still maintain that we should not do so. I've already given my reasons, and thus far you have chosen not to respond to any of these concerns. I don't want it to seem like I'm moving the goalposts, so if it isn't evident from my earlier comments, let me say now that the copyright issue is a smaller concern than the Tanbur Society content itself.
You've said yourself that you are closely involved with the subject, and I've mentioned my concerns that your website (as currently presented) is a primary source and, as such, I think it's inappropriate for Wikipedia (this is not intended as an attack on you or your website, I'm just saying that the content is inappropriate for Wikipedia). Don't you have a source or sources for the information on your website? Even Grove Dictionary has a bibliography at the end of its tanbur article. Does your organization have some kind of involvement with tanbur players? If so, then why not post some transcripts of interviews with them on your website? That could potentially be a valuable resource for us.
As for the stalking allegations, if you'll scroll further up this talk page you'll see I was not the first to suspect that sockpuppetry might be involved. Another editor had already done a lot of that legwork and I thought it was only fair to follow through on the allegations. As of this writing Johnyajohn is suspected of sockpuppetry but I stand by the results of my efforts. Believe me, I've got plenty of other things I'd rather be doing.
I'll be the first to agree that the article, as of this writing, is not what we want to present. But I have had little or no involvement with this version of Tanbur (Persian). I was using Tanbur/Temp to do a rewrite. Note that I started from scratch, using Grove as a resource, in hopes of producing a better version. You still haven't mentioned if you have any problem(s) with the information presented in Grove: if it isn't a reliable source, then you owe all of us an explanation as to how and why your website is a better source.
I share your concern about the tanbur being a dying instrument: if I wasn't interested, then I wouldn't be typing this response. Trust me, I am not someone you need to warn about dying music.
Let me say again that none of this is intended as an attack on you or your website. I am acting out of concern for the improvement of a Wikipedia article. I don't think it's appropriate to cite your website as a reference, much less to quote it verbatim, nor for you to include this content yourself due to the potential conflict of interest (and just so you don't think I'm being contrary, Wikipedia has guidelines and policies about these issues). Finally, I cannot seriously be expected to respond to an allegation of "crime against humanity". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I just looked at the history of "gyrofrog" and 69.201 and I 100% agree that Gyrofrog is attacking this person and others for no reason. He does not know anything about the Persian Tanbur, but he went ahead and deleted everything from people who are trying to do good. What a shame! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.0.30.180 ( talk • contribs). 22:43, 29 June 2007
Currently Tanbur serves as a disambiguation page but Talk:Tanbur redirects here. I am going to remove the redirect, because the disambig. page should have its own talk page, given all of the confusion over the term (even the Grove Dictionary says the "terminology is a complicated situation"). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I suggest we rewrite the article or at least incorporate some earlier version, rather than continue to use the tanbursociety.com version. Copyright issues aside ( OTRS still hasn't left a response), tanbursociety.com is both a primary and self-published source. Furthermore, I believe its inclusion in Wikipedia is due, at least in part, to an attempt at self-promotion (see User talk:Johnyajohn#June 2007 as to why I've arrived at this conclusion). I'm not comfortable citing the website as a reference, much less incorporating its text wholesale.
Second, I am not sure whether "Tanbur (Persian)" is an applicable title for this article. Part of the text describes the use of this instrument among the Ahl-e Haqq sect. Indeed, the New Grove Dictionary of Music specifies an instrument used in Ahl-e Haqq and says this instrument is rendered as tembûr in Kurdish. Based on this I propose we rename this article (or move the part about the tembûr) to "Tanbur (Kurdish)" or "Tanbur (Ahl-e Haqq)" or "Tembûr".
"Persian Tanbur" seems rather vague: Al-Farabi, according to Grove, described a Baghdad tunbūr, distributed south and west of Baghdad, and a Khorasan tanbur (or tunbūr) found in Persia. Grove says this distinction may be the source of modern differentiation between Arabic instruments (from the Baghdad tunbūr) and those found in northern Iraq, Syria, Iran and Turkey (Khorasan tanbur). Saz, although a Persian term, is played in the Caucasus, Turkey, northern Syria, western Iraq and southeastern Europe (but, apparently, not Persia/Iran). Dutar and setar are used to distinguish Iranian and Central Asian derivatives of the Khorasan tanbur. Otherwise, Grove makes no other mention of a specific "Persian Tanbur". On the other hand, one musician's biography uses the term "Persian tanbur". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The text in question is an obvious copyvio. If permission was granted, have the maintainer of the site contact permissions-en@wikimedia.org and release it, or change the copyright notice on the site that has the origional text. PouponOnToast 14:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
There have been no responses specifically addressing the issues that I've raised (aside from the copyright issue, which I believe is moot). I am planning to replace Tanbur (Persian) with the contents of Tanbur/Temp and then move the article to Tembûr (which currently redirects to saz). In summary:
Thanks for reading. Your constructive criticism is welcome. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Sumerian musical instrument :
January 2014 (UTC)
The word Tambura refers to several stringed musical instruments:
Samizambak ( talk) 21:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
This article replaces Tanbur/Temp, which itself was a rewrite of Tanbur (Persian). The latter now redirects to Tanbur (see Talk:Tanbur (Persian)#Improvement, nomenclature etc. for details). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Tanbur (Persian) was a redirect to
Tanbur, but
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) was apparently a talk page for both
Tanbur and
Tembûr (at this remove, I am not sure how or why). Tembûr in turn was moved to
Iranian tanbur and then
Kurdish tanbur. I just merged the page histories of
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) and
Talk:Kurdish tanbur (i.e., this page) and restored the earlier discussions. Now I'm afraid I might have created a bit of a mess but it's unclear when (and again, how or why)
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) went from being the talk page of one article to that of another. --
Gyrofrog
(talk)
18:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
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I have read most of the discussions below about the "origins" (!) of the instrument. They are irrelevant. The Turkish tanbur is NOT the Persian one. I listen to and adore Ostad Elahi, but NEITHER the look nor the sound of his instrument have anything to the with those of the instrument played by Tanburi Cemil Bey and Necdet Yaşar, the two great masters of the Turkish tanbur. The Persian tanbur would be closer akin to the Turkish "Divan Sazı" which both looks like and demands a similar technique as that of the Persian tanbur; their sounds are more similar too. It follows that the question about the origins of the instrument are void of any sense. A remark on the etymology of the word can be given, but it must be distinguished from the discussion about the origins of the instruments themselves. The Turkish instrument is doubtlessly derived from the Byzantine Tambouras modified according to Turkish makams which use notes inexistent on the Byzantine scale (and vice versa of course...) and is most probably influenced in its further development by the Anatolian "bağlama", which has, in turn, its roots in Central Asia. Another remark is that, both the nationalism of my co-patriots who wrote on the page and that of the others is TIRING. This is supposed to be article about MUSIC. And the remark about Rumi... Please... He is a Persian speaking Iranian naturalized as a Seldjukide citizen. THAT'S ALL. He belongs to the world of every Turkish child as a part of his/her culture, but equally to the that of every Iranian. I'm probably not supposed say such things, but I think he would be ashamed to see that such a discussion is even possible. Yet I repeat, I ask the first person who knows how to create a disambiguation page to do it immediately. I have scanned pictures of the Turkish tanbur for upload and have much to write about the playing techniques. Thank you. Ekindedeoglu 21:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Tambur is the name used to refer to a long necked stringed instruments used in Turkish music. The tambur has a long, fretted neck, and a smaller, bowl-shaped body. It has seven strings; six of them are grouped in pairs, with a seventh lower-pitched string. It has a rich, raspy sound, and can be plucked or bowed. Tamburs are generally only played in traditional Ottoman classical music—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Tembûr is also the name of a Kurdish string instrument played in south eastern Kurdistan (region of Kirmaşan/Iranian Kurdistan). It's a sacred and mostly religious instrument used by sufis to reach the state of ecstacy in a musical tradition that is considered one of the most ancient and deep-rooted musical traditions in the world. Recently, tembûr players like Ali Akbar Moradi have begun to make it more secular and release albums containing music played by this instrument—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The tembûr is thought to be the origin of some Persian instruments such as the setar—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Asheemak ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted this article to an earlier version. I happened to come across this article, and it seemed to be talking about a variety of instruments with similar names. It turns out that a large amount of text had been pasted in from pandura. I think perhaps that some instruments that might be called a tambura had been included, as well. I have linked to these articles from a new "See also" section. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I am admittedly not familiar with the Pandura, but Tanbur or Tanbour as used in Iran is very different from the instrument described in this article. I think this article should be expanded to clear up the ambiguity.
The basic Iranian tanbur, used mostly in sacred mystical gatherings as one post above noted, had two strings. In the 20th century, an Iranian musician by the name of Ostad Elahi added a third string to the Tanbour and perfected its repertoire. The instrument that is played in Turkish music is very different from the Iranian Tanbour (no Iranian tanbour I have ever heard of has 7 strings; there is an 8-string instrument which sounds markedly different and is called Chogur. Persian Instruments. I'm not qualified to opine on Turkish instruments, but this article is misleading for those who are looking for the Persian Tanbur that looks and sounds nothing like what has been described here. —the preceding comment is by 209.191.175.203 - 16:16, 7 April 2006: Please sign your posts!
An anonymous editor added text that was apparently copied from here. This same text had also appeared in the Pandura article (also see Talk:Pandura. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I've added the {{ Incomplete}} tag to the article because it only addresses the Turkish tanbur. From what I gather there is a similar Persian instrument with the same name (see link in "Copyright violation" section) and there may be other uses. I realize this article is already tagged as a "stub," but that generally means the content needs to be expanded. I wish to point out that the scope of the article needs to be expanded, as well (I almost added {{ globalize}} but it didn't seem quite right). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that this article be split up into different articles that discuss tanburs from different musical traditions. I'm the person that originally created this article over a year ago. I originally created it with the Turkish tanbur in mind, however over time, a number of great additions were made discusing the Persian tanbur, as well as the instrument by that name from other traditions. Now, the article has been modified enough so that it's basically a page that focuses on the Persian tanbur, with mention that it appears in other traditions.
I think it's become to confusing to have one article represent this instrument in all it's traditions, so I suggest a disambiguation page that points to different pages that discuss tanburs from different countries. I welcome any discussion on this suggestion. jeff.lopez-stuit 18:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
The last para compares the "evolution" of this instrument to "evolutionary theory of punctuated equilibrium". Man-made things do not evolve, i.e. develop spontaneously; they are developed by their designers. Besides, any man-made thing follows this kind of development: a thing is made good enough, and when the utilization of that thing outgrows its design, it is developed further (cars, computers, crockery... anything you can think of). If it needs saying at all, it would be better simply to mention that the tanbur has throughout its history been developed in phases. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.184.72.38 ( talk • contribs) 15:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
This article makes a lot of major claims about the historic nature of the tambur, but with no solid references except to a couple of websites which are obviously "pro-tanbur" sites. At least one of the editors on this article also seems to have a history of posting unreferenced information in other articles as well, so as to avoid future problems, I would like to see some additional references from more reliable sources in this article, or perhaps for it to be edited down with fewer grandiose adjectives. -- Elonka 19:55, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Tanbur is a Turkic instrument, it derives from the earlier "Kopuz", the Persian instrument your describing is not the Turkic Tanbur, its a totally different instrument with a different sound.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.141.50.23 ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Question: Why do all Turkish people want to own EVERYTHING from the past of other countries??? Is Mevlana Rumi Turkish? How about Tanbour? Does the language Persian come from Turkish? Is Kabob Turkish? I mean COME ON guys! (by the way I'm from Canada, But COME ON TURKISH)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.108.208.155 ( talk • contribs) 04:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Rather than arguing about this, it would be most helpful if someone would cite a verifiable source one way or the other. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi, User:68.174.13.231 keeps removing all references to dombra, tambura, pandura; see diff. The article only says that the tanbur is related to the dombra (seems pretty obvious and uncontroversial) and "See also" links to tambura and pandura also seem obvious and uncontroversial. The removal seems like unsophisticated POV. I already reverted once so I am refraining from reverting again; do people here agree it should be added back? — Quarl ( talk) 2007-02-28 06:06Z
Persian Kurdish Tanbur This article and photograph pertains only to the original Persian Kurdish Tanbur. NOT the Kazakhs or any other ethnic group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.13.231 ( talk • contribs)
I came across this article while RC-patrolling. I would like to request both sides to stop reverting the article and complete the discussion on the talk page itself. The distinction between the two hasnt been made clear. A seperate section would probably be appropriate. Having said that, I'm no expert on the subject, simply wanted to inform all users involved that violation of the 3-revert rules would lead to being blocked. Thanks xC | ☎ 08:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Again, 68.174.13.231, if you are claiming that Tanbur is not related to the other instruments, please say so. "This article is about instrument X" is not a valid reason to remove references other instruments, especially not when they are so closely related. — Quarl ( talk) 2007-03-08 08:12Z
Quarl, you are in violation of Wikipedia's rules. You cannot change what I write in the discussion board. This is considered vandalism. Read the rules! You are welcome to write your own opinion, but not to manipulate mine. I wrote the original article based on reading dozens of books and 30 years of research. You can also go to the Tanbur Society website www.tanbursociety.com, which is a society for the preservation and propagation of the Tanbur and you will clearly see the information is correct.
This article and photograph pertains only to the original Persian Kurdish Tanbur. NOT the Kazakhs or any other ethnic group. Dombra is not Persian or Kurdish. Maybe you should start a new section for it, but it does not belong part of this.
Wikipedia is not a place for personal attacks, but a place for learning.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.174.13.231 ( talk) 07:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
I agree with 68.174... Tanbur is 100% Kurdish/Persian, I should know, I have played it for 35 years. Hasan K. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.0.30.180 ( talk • contribs)
I restored tags that were deleted prematurely months ago. Lets discuss them. Also, we have the Hittite picture, so I don't thnk it is Persian either, if that matters. Deniz T C 15:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I found out that this article was almost an exact copy of http://www.tanbursociety.com/tanbur.htm before the last few edits. It has probably been this way since September. Deniz T C 16:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I restored that version. Deniz T C 15:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
69.201.146.55, 68.174.13.231, 66.108.46.97, Johnyajohn, 12.0.30.180, 68.175.78.96, 68.175.70.126, and possibly Global.wiki, or whoever you are, please stop disruptive edits. Deniz T C 15:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
We own The Tanbur Society and the text written by K. Morgan. We give Wikipedia full permission to use the text and information. It is now in public domain. The Tanbur Society would like to preserve the history of this beautiful ancient instrument and anyone is welcome to use the information.
The Tanbur Society of New York, May 6, 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk) 08:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC).
We are not any other IP or johnyajohn. This is all very childish. You are welcome to send an email to The Tanbur Society and confirm that this is our IP address.
Sir, if you understand the English language, we have stated not to be used without written consent. Since we The Tanbur Society have given written consent to Wikipedia both on this page and in many emails it is absolutely fine for the text to be used. Also, you can call us or send an email and we will gladly reply. We are only interested in educating the public about this beautiful ancient instrument, not get into some strange argument about Turks and Persians. Please keep your personal and ethnic feelings aside and try to help the public. David P. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 08:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
We sent an email to the appropriate Wikipedia email address and a fax. We even spoke with a person at the main office and they said all copyright issues have been resolved. There never truly was any copyright issue since we gave permission to Wikipedia to use the text, but now we did the actions you asked for. David P. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 07:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
It is sad that Mr. "Gyrofrog" has become obsessed with us and has nothing better to do than attack everything we write. We did email and fax them and they emailed us back to okay everything. We are not the same as Johnjohn or anyone else, but if it makes you happy to think we are, good luck! With all due respect to Mr.gyrofrog, it is more than obvious your knowledge about the Persian/Kurdish Tanbur is next to 0. Anyone who knows anything about the Tanbur would laugh if they read the incorrect information you wrote. About self promotion, how can a non for profit website built to help educate others and keep a dying instrument alive be self promoting. We have only spent money to help keep a dying instrument alive, never took in a penny from anyone.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 05:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Gyrofrog, there are only three people who really know how to play the Kurdish Tanbur correctly in the United States. It is a dying instrument and you are certainly doing everything in your power to destroy its history and culture. What a shame and truly a type of crime against humanity. Instead of trying to preserve history, you are deleting the correct information and writing incorrect information about something you not nothing of. I am not johnjohn, but even if I was, WHO CARES? I just looked at his page and he has not written anything that is obscene or crazy. TanburSociety.com does not have any links to other website, galleries or for profit sites. So what is your big obsession with me and why do you have to attack almost everything that I write? Do I have to start a new section for Wiki-Stalkers?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.201.146.55 ( talk • contribs) 09:15, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
To 69.201.146.55: First of all, if it isn't clear from my previous comments, let me state right now that the copyright issue is not even the biggest problem with the Tanbur Society's version of the article. If OTRS were to finally respond (and it's now been over a month, by the way) and say "yes, it's absolutely and officially fine to use their text," I would still maintain that we should not do so. I've already given my reasons, and thus far you have chosen not to respond to any of these concerns. I don't want it to seem like I'm moving the goalposts, so if it isn't evident from my earlier comments, let me say now that the copyright issue is a smaller concern than the Tanbur Society content itself.
You've said yourself that you are closely involved with the subject, and I've mentioned my concerns that your website (as currently presented) is a primary source and, as such, I think it's inappropriate for Wikipedia (this is not intended as an attack on you or your website, I'm just saying that the content is inappropriate for Wikipedia). Don't you have a source or sources for the information on your website? Even Grove Dictionary has a bibliography at the end of its tanbur article. Does your organization have some kind of involvement with tanbur players? If so, then why not post some transcripts of interviews with them on your website? That could potentially be a valuable resource for us.
As for the stalking allegations, if you'll scroll further up this talk page you'll see I was not the first to suspect that sockpuppetry might be involved. Another editor had already done a lot of that legwork and I thought it was only fair to follow through on the allegations. As of this writing Johnyajohn is suspected of sockpuppetry but I stand by the results of my efforts. Believe me, I've got plenty of other things I'd rather be doing.
I'll be the first to agree that the article, as of this writing, is not what we want to present. But I have had little or no involvement with this version of Tanbur (Persian). I was using Tanbur/Temp to do a rewrite. Note that I started from scratch, using Grove as a resource, in hopes of producing a better version. You still haven't mentioned if you have any problem(s) with the information presented in Grove: if it isn't a reliable source, then you owe all of us an explanation as to how and why your website is a better source.
I share your concern about the tanbur being a dying instrument: if I wasn't interested, then I wouldn't be typing this response. Trust me, I am not someone you need to warn about dying music.
Let me say again that none of this is intended as an attack on you or your website. I am acting out of concern for the improvement of a Wikipedia article. I don't think it's appropriate to cite your website as a reference, much less to quote it verbatim, nor for you to include this content yourself due to the potential conflict of interest (and just so you don't think I'm being contrary, Wikipedia has guidelines and policies about these issues). Finally, I cannot seriously be expected to respond to an allegation of "crime against humanity". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I just looked at the history of "gyrofrog" and 69.201 and I 100% agree that Gyrofrog is attacking this person and others for no reason. He does not know anything about the Persian Tanbur, but he went ahead and deleted everything from people who are trying to do good. What a shame! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.0.30.180 ( talk • contribs). 22:43, 29 June 2007
Currently Tanbur serves as a disambiguation page but Talk:Tanbur redirects here. I am going to remove the redirect, because the disambig. page should have its own talk page, given all of the confusion over the term (even the Grove Dictionary says the "terminology is a complicated situation"). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:33, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I suggest we rewrite the article or at least incorporate some earlier version, rather than continue to use the tanbursociety.com version. Copyright issues aside ( OTRS still hasn't left a response), tanbursociety.com is both a primary and self-published source. Furthermore, I believe its inclusion in Wikipedia is due, at least in part, to an attempt at self-promotion (see User talk:Johnyajohn#June 2007 as to why I've arrived at this conclusion). I'm not comfortable citing the website as a reference, much less incorporating its text wholesale.
Second, I am not sure whether "Tanbur (Persian)" is an applicable title for this article. Part of the text describes the use of this instrument among the Ahl-e Haqq sect. Indeed, the New Grove Dictionary of Music specifies an instrument used in Ahl-e Haqq and says this instrument is rendered as tembûr in Kurdish. Based on this I propose we rename this article (or move the part about the tembûr) to "Tanbur (Kurdish)" or "Tanbur (Ahl-e Haqq)" or "Tembûr".
"Persian Tanbur" seems rather vague: Al-Farabi, according to Grove, described a Baghdad tunbūr, distributed south and west of Baghdad, and a Khorasan tanbur (or tunbūr) found in Persia. Grove says this distinction may be the source of modern differentiation between Arabic instruments (from the Baghdad tunbūr) and those found in northern Iraq, Syria, Iran and Turkey (Khorasan tanbur). Saz, although a Persian term, is played in the Caucasus, Turkey, northern Syria, western Iraq and southeastern Europe (but, apparently, not Persia/Iran). Dutar and setar are used to distinguish Iranian and Central Asian derivatives of the Khorasan tanbur. Otherwise, Grove makes no other mention of a specific "Persian Tanbur". On the other hand, one musician's biography uses the term "Persian tanbur". -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The text in question is an obvious copyvio. If permission was granted, have the maintainer of the site contact permissions-en@wikimedia.org and release it, or change the copyright notice on the site that has the origional text. PouponOnToast 14:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
There have been no responses specifically addressing the issues that I've raised (aside from the copyright issue, which I believe is moot). I am planning to replace Tanbur (Persian) with the contents of Tanbur/Temp and then move the article to Tembûr (which currently redirects to saz). In summary:
Thanks for reading. Your constructive criticism is welcome. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Sumerian musical instrument :
January 2014 (UTC)
The word Tambura refers to several stringed musical instruments:
Samizambak ( talk) 21:01, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
This article replaces Tanbur/Temp, which itself was a rewrite of Tanbur (Persian). The latter now redirects to Tanbur (see Talk:Tanbur (Persian)#Improvement, nomenclature etc. for details). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Tanbur (Persian) was a redirect to
Tanbur, but
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) was apparently a talk page for both
Tanbur and
Tembûr (at this remove, I am not sure how or why). Tembûr in turn was moved to
Iranian tanbur and then
Kurdish tanbur. I just merged the page histories of
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) and
Talk:Kurdish tanbur (i.e., this page) and restored the earlier discussions. Now I'm afraid I might have created a bit of a mess but it's unclear when (and again, how or why)
Talk:Tanbur (Persian) went from being the talk page of one article to that of another. --
Gyrofrog
(talk)
18:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)