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I see that in many of the images, the krampus has Zwart Piet's roe, the small bundle of twigs used to whip the baddies with. : ) 217.166.94.1 ( talk) 15:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
About two years ago, we had a young teenaged exchange student from Southern Germany spend a short period with us. My daughter is fascinated by many germanic Christmas traditions and asked her about the Krampus. The young lady almost refused to tell us anything; she maintained that the Krampus is horrible. He comes into the home and steals Christmas gifts, regardless of whether the children are good or bad and is reputed to steal bad children in a canvas sack, tie it up, and throw them into the river! Definitely an unpleasant fellow. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.127.134.168 (
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18:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
There was an Austrian Civil War against fascists and German Nazis??????? 76.199.11.114 ( talk) Semper Anon —Preceding undated comment added 13:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC).
I couldn't read the entire NYT article, but it's dated December 1934. The Anschluss didn't take place until 1938, the Austro-fascist regime that preceded it was at odds with Germany. Dollfuss banned Nazi activity and (after his assassination by Nazis in July 1934) his successor Schusnigg maintained that ban. TGGP ( talk) 05:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I want to note several concerns about this page.
First off, people here in Austria who I've shown this page were shocked. Partly because they thought that the Krampus was an obscure character restricted to rural areas. And secondly because, of course, no one in this modern age is whipping young girls or threatening to take children to hell. Austria is a modern society and such behavior would not be tolerated. In addition to being shocked by what they saw on this page, the Austrian's I talked with were puzzled at who would put such a page up and what their motivation would be.
So, with that in mind, I note that there is an increasingly common use of Krampus characters to promote events for financial gain. Indeed, I read an article in a local Viennese paper (can't find it now, darn it), that touts the success of the FIRST YEAR of a Krampus event and in which the clearly self-serving promoter says that they will do it again, and more, next year. Seen in this light, this is hardly a folk tradition. And, then noting the history of this page and how its current form was posted in mid-November, I wonder if the page itself was written as part of a PR campaign??
And then, there is a German language Wikipedia page - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus - that has substantially more content and that is far less titillating. How does it make sense for the English page to contain different content and not to refer to the far better German language page? At the same time, I suspect (from content and timing of the edits) that even the German language page has had significant input from event promoters.
Valuing the integrity of Wikipedia, I wonder what to do with these concerns? If I find the local paper that I refer to above, then I will add a section on the use of the Krampus for promotion. Without the reference, I hesitate to do that. I would suggest, in any case, that the Colbert Report is hardly a high quality reference and that the text referring to beating young girls (anyone really, of course) and threatening children should be deleted if it can not be substantiated.
Ronewolf ( talk) 10:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The mention of the Colbert Report is that it was mentioned in the Colbert Report, nothing more. I'll see what sources I can find for the article after I get home from church (the most recent issue of National Geographic covers Krampus a little). As for Krampus being a folk tradition, I have [ Christmas in Ritual and Tradition by Clement A. Miles], as well as that National Geographic. By the way, I'm from the American South, and I've never eaten squirrel. In fact, a handful of my relatives are the only people I know of that have eaten squirrel. But, the article only says that squirrels are eaten, not that it is common. More later. Ian.thomson ( talk) 13:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't know who you talked to in Austria but during the so called "Krampuslauf" (parades) the Krampuse would absolutely run after children and whip them with either twigs or horsehair whips. That used to be the sole point for children to attend. For us kids that was always quite a thrill running away from them etc. They sometimes also carried large baskets on their backs in which they put the kids and carried them around for a bit. Nothing too serious mind you, not to the point of real injuries but painful if they caught you none - the- less. A few years ago they stopped that though now all the Krampuslauf is literally just a parade, no whipping, no running after kids just walking around for show.-- FerociousFranky ( talk) 18:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Can someone explain how the Krampus is "incubus-like". I suspect that was written by someone who did not understand what an incubus is. I'm deleting the phrase. If someone can how it is valid, they should add it back.-- Ericjs ( talk) 05:12, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
A couple of the Popular Culture items seem...dubious at best, and advertising at worst. Are the merchandising choices of some random t-shirt companies really relevant to this topic? — BevansDesign ( talk) 00:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
The Finnish movie "Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale," from 2010, may have been heavily influenced by the legend of Krampus. It is a story about a child realizing that Santa Claus is really a monster that takes bad children to eat them, as opposed to a nice man who brings gifts to good children. Vinzklorthos ( talk) 00:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Is anything known about the development of Krampus traditions? Does it derive from pre-Christian beliefs, or was it a later development? Has any research been done on the subject? It seems like that would be a valuable addition to the article. — Gwalla | Talk 01:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I have commented out this section for now. Of these items, none of the references provide any indication that they are notable occurrences of Krampus in popular culture. Cites are primary, and to non-RS websites like YouTube. The Interior (Talk) 19:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Simple questions to answer before adding items to the "In popular culture" section:
1. Does the subject mentioning Krampus have an article?
(If no, is it really
notable?) If yes:
2. It is
more than a passing mention?
If no, it's only trivia, so don't add. If yes:
3. Do you have
a reference for it?
If no, please try to find one first. If yes, please add! :)
-- Limulus ( talk) 11:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. It's been a while since I had a look at this page. I notice that the IPC section was scrubbed from the article in November: [1] On one hand, I can understand that it attracts poorly-referenced edits. OTOH, a good chunk of the material being taken out (note [2]) probably shouldn't have been. Perhaps the trick here is that the list isn't so much 'in popular culture' in the generic sense as 'in North American culture'. I thus propose a much more specific section 'In North America' or such with i.e. Christmas-themed episodes of popular TV shows that prominently feature Krampus, though not necessarily in list form of course:
Some other entries that probably merit inclusion:
-- Limulus ( talk) 10:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
In the article it is mentioned that "These runs may include perchten, similarly wild pagan spirits of Germanic folklore and sometimes female in representation" Although it may happen that Perchten-costumes are used in Krampus runs, it shouldn't. Perchten are figures that are not meant to appear before the Winter Solstice (around December 21st) and no later than the "Perchtl-Night," January 6th (today's Epiphany in the Christian calendar.) Krampus only appears around Dec. 5th, but no later than the Winter Solstice. Both characters have different meanings and "tasks" in society. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpendruide ( talk • contribs) 17:33, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
The black and white newspaper illustration at the top of the page is, IMNSHO, a pretty awful one to be using as the lead image. When a bitmap image compresses down in size a lot of details are lost, so it's difficult to see properly. Heck, even when the image is opened at full size in another window it isn't the best scan. With the many, many postcard images available it seems like we could easily have a nice dramatic color representation up top. DreamGuy ( talk) 00:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Some content was added to the "Origins" section describing Krampus as being part of some type of coming of age/spirit quest tradition. This is plausible, but it hasn't come up in any of my readings. Without a source it shouldn't be in there imo. I'm going to pull it for now. (Content here) The Interior (Talk) 06:23, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to restore Nikkimaria's trimming of the IPC section. We really need to start requiring secondary sourcing to keep this section encyclopedic. The Interior (Talk) 13:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Since this discussion is still ongoing, I have reverted your unilateral removal of information from the article. Please discuss your intended deletions here so a consensus can be reached. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 16:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to resolve this. Bmk, do you have more comments? Should we take this to a dispute resolution process, or go with the admittedly numerically weak 2:1 consensus that the IPC items should have secondary sourcing? The Interior (Talk) 18:47, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
I propose removing the following, as a start (more to follow later):
Thoughts? Nikkimaria ( talk) 20:17, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Every figure that has some similarity with Krampus does not "another form of Krampus" make. This stuff needs to get off of this article and any comparison made needs to be backed with scholarship making that comparison. Otherwise it needs to be removed immediately. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Question, what would the plural version of "Krampus" be exactly? 184.44.4.44 ( talk) 17:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
In English the pluralization of Krampus would be Krampi. 107.77.90.86 ( talk) 16:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Krampus goes about putting the bad children in a bag and takes the home to eat--a bit too drastic for the American Public--You think. 65.24.145.176 ( talk) 01:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I've just removed a lot of non-Krampus stuff that has accrued on the article. From Zwarte Piet to the Yule Goat, these aren't just reflexes of Krampus or variations on this figure, but rather—like Krampus—they're a part of a wider phenomenon of Attendants of Saint Nicholas in the folk practices of Europe, apparently particularly Germanic folk practices. Actually, we could solve this issue with a list article called List of Attendants of Saint Nicholas by region. Something to consider. :bloodofox: ( talk) 02:44, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
"Similar figures are recorded in neighboring areas. Klaubauf Austria, while Bartl or Bartel, Niglobartl, and Wubartl are used in the southern part of the country. In most parts of Slovenia, whose culture was greatly affected by Austrian culture, Krampus is called parkelj and is one of the companions of Miklavž, the Slovenian form of St. Nicholas.[1][19]"
Carantanian (including Styrian) Parkl WAS the original "Krampus". Krampus is a replacement for Parkl, it is a later, Christian replacemend of Slovene, Carinthian (Carantanian) Parkl, which has nothing to do with new Christianity. They were actually entities (souls) of deceased people who are coming back to Earth... They are in company with a goddess called PEHTRA baba or also Kvatrna baba (Kvatre were special quarters, weeks in the prechistian Calendar, which have had 9 days per week instead of Babylonian 7) 7 was a number of the Underworld in Slovenia. Land of Babilonska kraljica (Babylonian snake queen); which is equal to Vedic "Patala") - "enemy" of Kresnik ("Perun") from 9th land... Nine means Devet in Slavic, DEV = Deus("godly"); "godly land", "deveta dežela"(which is equal to Norse Ygdrasil)= and second one (Parkl) was SMRT (Morana) (death). These 2 deities were later raplaced with "angels of death" or Parklji who were "shadows" of "saint" Nicolas... Nicolas is a mythological priest, who in fact never existed. In several areas was one of these deities also called Torkla in Slovenia... At several time, at night it was forbidden to sew. sources: www2.24ur.com/bin/article_print.php?id=3150469 www.dormeo.net/clanki-dormeo/prazniki/razkrivamo-pomen-predpraznicnih-obicajev-2-del.htm?t=a
"In German-speaking Alpine folklore, Krampus..."
It would be good to make it clear that the Krampus is NOT known in Germany. -- 213.196.252.177 ( talk) 09:15, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
This article was the sixth most popular on Wikipedia according to the Top 25 Report with 842,714 views for the week November 29 to December 5, 2015. The attention was probably related to the December 4 release of Krampus. Congratulations to the editors of this article for the exposure of their work. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 18:45, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
This article cites a source from the 50's during the era of neo-paganism's emergence. These traditions have nothing to do with 'witch covens,' on the contrary pagan rituals and the like bare little to no link to 'witches' given that the majority of witch-lore is imagined circa 1920's during it's birth with Gardnerian 'wica' (later 'wicca') which borrowed wholesale from Freemasonry given that Gardner was a Freemason expelled for his ... antics with young underage girls, ironically the focus of his later wica born 'sex magic' sadly many people have polluted actual pagan history with modern imaginings, and this appears to be another instance. I recommend that entire section be removed as it is quite clear the author isn't talking about the krampus myth purely, nor does he have the foggiest what he's talking about as he's just making loose speculations and guesses, and admits such. 121.211.33.244 ( talk) 14:50, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
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As an Austrian I can assure you, that Krampus is not carrying a bathtub on his back. Instead he is carrying a "Butte" something that actually has no English word. It is a kind of oversized wooden bucket or wicker basket carried with straps on the back like a backpack. It was used since the mideveal to transport wood and for the grape harvest - for the latter it is still used today (in pvc though). The wooden "Butte" was also used to transport coal in the 19th/20th century and in some Krampus traditions (varying strongly throughout the alpine countries)he is actually carrying a bit of coal in his "Butte" so the children would be even more afraid of him putting them into it. Here is a classic greeting card with a wicker Butte http://www.therainbowhub.com/grus-vom-krampus-greetings-krampus/ and an actual photo of a wooden Butte: http://www.mikeswerkstatt.at/uploads/objekte/1311264279.jpg (the accompanying text on the site even says:" Suitable for Krampus and vintners alike": http://www.mikeswerkstatt.at/verleih.php?cat=5 (scroll to middle). Since I'm not a native English speaker I can't exactly write down how the text should be edited though. TheStoryteller01 ( talk) 20:15, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Kallikantzaros I have a proposal: to include the link to the anatolian "Krampus" /info/en/?search=Kallikantzaros — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.185.55 ( talk) 11:46, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
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Article is not precise enough. Most of the pictures shown are actually not Krampus (punishes kids as Saint Nicholas' counterpart) but so-called "Perchten" which are alpine winter demons representing the power of nature. Easily mistaken for each other but massive differences in terms of origin and meaning.
CharlieLeoben ( talk) 12:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
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Under heading "In Popular Culture" it reads (in part):
television- both live action ("A Krampus Carol", a 2012 episode of The League[25]) and animation ("Minstrel Krampus", a 2013 episode of American Dad![24]),
After League[25] please add before the final bracket:
and "A Merry Murdoch Christmas", a 2015 episode of Murdoch Mysteries
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I've been searching for the origin of the Krampus, and according to the very own source which is used in order to justify it as a Norse word, it is from the German Language! He is the son of Hel from the Norse mythology, but his name is from the German Language! Unless someone can get another source which could explain this, I suggest we change Krampus' origins as German Language and not Norse language. Furthermore, in the Norse Language morphology, there is no case of a noun ending with -en. The only case where this is could have been possible is if it was a verb, and it would end with -e and not -en. So even if it did exist in the Norse language, it was not originated there... — Preceding unsigned comment added by TsumiHokiro ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_13#Category:Krampus. Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:36, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Krampus, whose name is derived from the German word krampen, meaning claw, is said to be the son of Hel in Norse mythology. The legendary beast also shares characteristics with other scary, demonic creatures in Greek mythology, including satyrs and fauns. Diwakar jha ( talk) 11:27, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
First, there are already too many pictures. They don't all need to be present. Second, formatting them as three separate galleries is even more problematic. On narrow layouts, they wrap oddly and create too many rows. It should be all one gallery not three. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 03:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I also suggest we use {{ Gallery}} instead of the old formatting. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 02:08, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
The caption, "Krampus a Dobbiaco in Toblach", is not an WP:OVERLINK, it's a WP:REPEATLINK. Both used to be in the same section, but that changed a year ago because of confusion like this. First, Dobbiaco redirects to Toblach. Second, it's non-English and should be removed. Nice edit war though. Glad I stayed out of it. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Dear Walter Görlitz, why do you think that we should only link those regions which are not countries? On my Talk page you cited WP:OVERLINK. As you also quoted, it states that "Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are not usually linked" and "location" is given as an example. While it might make sense deleting links to well-known locations (not just countries), it also includes locations like Northern Italy or Bavaria. Deleting only the links to countries and citing WP:OVERLINK is a quite strange interpretation of not linking locations. It may well be that, e.g., Slovenia is less known to many people (especially outside Europe) than Northern Italy, so deleting the link to the former one and leaving the link to the latter is questionable. In my view, either all links to well-known locations should be deleted, or all should be kept. The current solution gives undue weight to regions which remained linked. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 23:50, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
The article lead currently says "The origin of the figure is unclear; some folklorists and anthropologists have postulated it as having pre-Christian origins, and that in Norse or Germanic mythology, he was the son of the goddess Hel." This claim is cited to news.nationalgeographic.com, which in fact simply says:
- Krampus, whose name is derived from the German word krampen, meaning claw, is said to be the son of Hel in Norse mythology. The legendary beast also shares characteristics with other scary, demonic creatures in Greek mythology, including satyrs and fauns.
In turn, National Geographic cites Encyclopedia Mythica, which is by no means a reliable source on the topic of Norse mythology, and is full of falsities culled from no where. In fact, because it's terrible, it is in fact blacklisted from this website ( since 2010, see here also). If it was ever there, it appears that Encyclopedia Mythica has removed the bit about Krampus. Maybe they got an email from a specialist, who knows.
So, in summary, no folklorists, no anthropologists, and no reliable source. As the primary author of Hel (being) and many other related topics, I can tell you that I'm not surprised. So, why was this edit reverted (@ Beyond My Ken:? :bloodofox: ( talk) 07:00, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I had added a piece of information which I got from a National Geographic article claiming that Krampus was the son of the Norse goddess Hel, but it had been removed for being a dubious claim. I'm fine with this. However, it had been restored then deleted again by two other people. I foresee that it may become an issue in the future, and I wish to bring a consensus on whether or not the information is reliable and should be included. I personally believe that National Geographic is a reliable source, but I do know that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Feel free to debate. The article in question is here. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131217-krampus-christmas-santa-devil/ DiegoAma ( talk) 11:20, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Alright, thanks. I seem to have missed that. DiegoAma ( talk) 11:29, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
The article is not about the nations, most of which are sufficiently common. They have not been linked for years and so I'm not sure why they would be now. See WP:OVERLINK. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 00:10, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Just sth interesting here. was watching cnn this weekend and some artist from Abebo, Cote De Ivoire said sth about mask races and other contests in his village. Bokoharamwatch ( talk) 10:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC) PS It was African voices.
the text says St Nicholas wears the vestments of an Eastern Orthodox bishop, but in all the images he is wearing a Western-style Mitre. The other vestments are not clear but are not clearly Eastern.-- 142.163.194.149 ( talk) 23:06, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Cites in second sentence of beginning paragraph that St. Nicholas and Krampus visit on the 5th of December when it should be the 24/25. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C48:6C7F:C469:9D31:9E23:D766:3864 ( talk) 04:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
is the name pronounced cram puhs or cram poos 2A0D:3344:101:7B10:492E:AF29:4BA5:936C ( talk) 20:01, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia and the original author of the Krampus wiki keep taking down the information I provided which states that the information that is currently there on Wikipedia is wrong or incomplete, and when I provided the correct information showing that Krampus is the son of the Norse god hel, they remove my edit. Wikipedia can not take away from the truth, and sadly the information in the Krampus article is far from the origins or truth. 2606:9400:8B9F:D0C0:EC5C:994:D400:854F ( talk) 02:46, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
How can Krampus be “pre-Christian” if the earliest mention is 600-700 AD. Christianity started with Christ, first century AD.
Whoever wrote this should do some historical research. 2601:282:8600:270:C4AD:294E:CA9B:9959 ( talk) 01:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I see that in many of the images, the krampus has Zwart Piet's roe, the small bundle of twigs used to whip the baddies with. : ) 217.166.94.1 ( talk) 15:18, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
About two years ago, we had a young teenaged exchange student from Southern Germany spend a short period with us. My daughter is fascinated by many germanic Christmas traditions and asked her about the Krampus. The young lady almost refused to tell us anything; she maintained that the Krampus is horrible. He comes into the home and steals Christmas gifts, regardless of whether the children are good or bad and is reputed to steal bad children in a canvas sack, tie it up, and throw them into the river! Definitely an unpleasant fellow. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.127.134.168 (
talk)
18:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
There was an Austrian Civil War against fascists and German Nazis??????? 76.199.11.114 ( talk) Semper Anon —Preceding undated comment added 13:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC).
I couldn't read the entire NYT article, but it's dated December 1934. The Anschluss didn't take place until 1938, the Austro-fascist regime that preceded it was at odds with Germany. Dollfuss banned Nazi activity and (after his assassination by Nazis in July 1934) his successor Schusnigg maintained that ban. TGGP ( talk) 05:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
I want to note several concerns about this page.
First off, people here in Austria who I've shown this page were shocked. Partly because they thought that the Krampus was an obscure character restricted to rural areas. And secondly because, of course, no one in this modern age is whipping young girls or threatening to take children to hell. Austria is a modern society and such behavior would not be tolerated. In addition to being shocked by what they saw on this page, the Austrian's I talked with were puzzled at who would put such a page up and what their motivation would be.
So, with that in mind, I note that there is an increasingly common use of Krampus characters to promote events for financial gain. Indeed, I read an article in a local Viennese paper (can't find it now, darn it), that touts the success of the FIRST YEAR of a Krampus event and in which the clearly self-serving promoter says that they will do it again, and more, next year. Seen in this light, this is hardly a folk tradition. And, then noting the history of this page and how its current form was posted in mid-November, I wonder if the page itself was written as part of a PR campaign??
And then, there is a German language Wikipedia page - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus - that has substantially more content and that is far less titillating. How does it make sense for the English page to contain different content and not to refer to the far better German language page? At the same time, I suspect (from content and timing of the edits) that even the German language page has had significant input from event promoters.
Valuing the integrity of Wikipedia, I wonder what to do with these concerns? If I find the local paper that I refer to above, then I will add a section on the use of the Krampus for promotion. Without the reference, I hesitate to do that. I would suggest, in any case, that the Colbert Report is hardly a high quality reference and that the text referring to beating young girls (anyone really, of course) and threatening children should be deleted if it can not be substantiated.
Ronewolf ( talk) 10:20, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The mention of the Colbert Report is that it was mentioned in the Colbert Report, nothing more. I'll see what sources I can find for the article after I get home from church (the most recent issue of National Geographic covers Krampus a little). As for Krampus being a folk tradition, I have [ Christmas in Ritual and Tradition by Clement A. Miles], as well as that National Geographic. By the way, I'm from the American South, and I've never eaten squirrel. In fact, a handful of my relatives are the only people I know of that have eaten squirrel. But, the article only says that squirrels are eaten, not that it is common. More later. Ian.thomson ( talk) 13:39, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
I don't know who you talked to in Austria but during the so called "Krampuslauf" (parades) the Krampuse would absolutely run after children and whip them with either twigs or horsehair whips. That used to be the sole point for children to attend. For us kids that was always quite a thrill running away from them etc. They sometimes also carried large baskets on their backs in which they put the kids and carried them around for a bit. Nothing too serious mind you, not to the point of real injuries but painful if they caught you none - the- less. A few years ago they stopped that though now all the Krampuslauf is literally just a parade, no whipping, no running after kids just walking around for show.-- FerociousFranky ( talk) 18:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Can someone explain how the Krampus is "incubus-like". I suspect that was written by someone who did not understand what an incubus is. I'm deleting the phrase. If someone can how it is valid, they should add it back.-- Ericjs ( talk) 05:12, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
A couple of the Popular Culture items seem...dubious at best, and advertising at worst. Are the merchandising choices of some random t-shirt companies really relevant to this topic? — BevansDesign ( talk) 00:42, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
The Finnish movie "Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale," from 2010, may have been heavily influenced by the legend of Krampus. It is a story about a child realizing that Santa Claus is really a monster that takes bad children to eat them, as opposed to a nice man who brings gifts to good children. Vinzklorthos ( talk) 00:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Is anything known about the development of Krampus traditions? Does it derive from pre-Christian beliefs, or was it a later development? Has any research been done on the subject? It seems like that would be a valuable addition to the article. — Gwalla | Talk 01:00, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
I have commented out this section for now. Of these items, none of the references provide any indication that they are notable occurrences of Krampus in popular culture. Cites are primary, and to non-RS websites like YouTube. The Interior (Talk) 19:37, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
Simple questions to answer before adding items to the "In popular culture" section:
1. Does the subject mentioning Krampus have an article?
(If no, is it really
notable?) If yes:
2. It is
more than a passing mention?
If no, it's only trivia, so don't add. If yes:
3. Do you have
a reference for it?
If no, please try to find one first. If yes, please add! :)
-- Limulus ( talk) 11:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. It's been a while since I had a look at this page. I notice that the IPC section was scrubbed from the article in November: [1] On one hand, I can understand that it attracts poorly-referenced edits. OTOH, a good chunk of the material being taken out (note [2]) probably shouldn't have been. Perhaps the trick here is that the list isn't so much 'in popular culture' in the generic sense as 'in North American culture'. I thus propose a much more specific section 'In North America' or such with i.e. Christmas-themed episodes of popular TV shows that prominently feature Krampus, though not necessarily in list form of course:
Some other entries that probably merit inclusion:
-- Limulus ( talk) 10:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
In the article it is mentioned that "These runs may include perchten, similarly wild pagan spirits of Germanic folklore and sometimes female in representation" Although it may happen that Perchten-costumes are used in Krampus runs, it shouldn't. Perchten are figures that are not meant to appear before the Winter Solstice (around December 21st) and no later than the "Perchtl-Night," January 6th (today's Epiphany in the Christian calendar.) Krampus only appears around Dec. 5th, but no later than the Winter Solstice. Both characters have different meanings and "tasks" in society. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpendruide ( talk • contribs) 17:33, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
The black and white newspaper illustration at the top of the page is, IMNSHO, a pretty awful one to be using as the lead image. When a bitmap image compresses down in size a lot of details are lost, so it's difficult to see properly. Heck, even when the image is opened at full size in another window it isn't the best scan. With the many, many postcard images available it seems like we could easily have a nice dramatic color representation up top. DreamGuy ( talk) 00:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Some content was added to the "Origins" section describing Krampus as being part of some type of coming of age/spirit quest tradition. This is plausible, but it hasn't come up in any of my readings. Without a source it shouldn't be in there imo. I'm going to pull it for now. (Content here) The Interior (Talk) 06:23, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to restore Nikkimaria's trimming of the IPC section. We really need to start requiring secondary sourcing to keep this section encyclopedic. The Interior (Talk) 13:29, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Since this discussion is still ongoing, I have reverted your unilateral removal of information from the article. Please discuss your intended deletions here so a consensus can be reached. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 16:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to resolve this. Bmk, do you have more comments? Should we take this to a dispute resolution process, or go with the admittedly numerically weak 2:1 consensus that the IPC items should have secondary sourcing? The Interior (Talk) 18:47, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
I propose removing the following, as a start (more to follow later):
Thoughts? Nikkimaria ( talk) 20:17, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Every figure that has some similarity with Krampus does not "another form of Krampus" make. This stuff needs to get off of this article and any comparison made needs to be backed with scholarship making that comparison. Otherwise it needs to be removed immediately. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Question, what would the plural version of "Krampus" be exactly? 184.44.4.44 ( talk) 17:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
In English the pluralization of Krampus would be Krampi. 107.77.90.86 ( talk) 16:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Krampus goes about putting the bad children in a bag and takes the home to eat--a bit too drastic for the American Public--You think. 65.24.145.176 ( talk) 01:24, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I've just removed a lot of non-Krampus stuff that has accrued on the article. From Zwarte Piet to the Yule Goat, these aren't just reflexes of Krampus or variations on this figure, but rather—like Krampus—they're a part of a wider phenomenon of Attendants of Saint Nicholas in the folk practices of Europe, apparently particularly Germanic folk practices. Actually, we could solve this issue with a list article called List of Attendants of Saint Nicholas by region. Something to consider. :bloodofox: ( talk) 02:44, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
"Similar figures are recorded in neighboring areas. Klaubauf Austria, while Bartl or Bartel, Niglobartl, and Wubartl are used in the southern part of the country. In most parts of Slovenia, whose culture was greatly affected by Austrian culture, Krampus is called parkelj and is one of the companions of Miklavž, the Slovenian form of St. Nicholas.[1][19]"
Carantanian (including Styrian) Parkl WAS the original "Krampus". Krampus is a replacement for Parkl, it is a later, Christian replacemend of Slovene, Carinthian (Carantanian) Parkl, which has nothing to do with new Christianity. They were actually entities (souls) of deceased people who are coming back to Earth... They are in company with a goddess called PEHTRA baba or also Kvatrna baba (Kvatre were special quarters, weeks in the prechistian Calendar, which have had 9 days per week instead of Babylonian 7) 7 was a number of the Underworld in Slovenia. Land of Babilonska kraljica (Babylonian snake queen); which is equal to Vedic "Patala") - "enemy" of Kresnik ("Perun") from 9th land... Nine means Devet in Slavic, DEV = Deus("godly"); "godly land", "deveta dežela"(which is equal to Norse Ygdrasil)= and second one (Parkl) was SMRT (Morana) (death). These 2 deities were later raplaced with "angels of death" or Parklji who were "shadows" of "saint" Nicolas... Nicolas is a mythological priest, who in fact never existed. In several areas was one of these deities also called Torkla in Slovenia... At several time, at night it was forbidden to sew. sources: www2.24ur.com/bin/article_print.php?id=3150469 www.dormeo.net/clanki-dormeo/prazniki/razkrivamo-pomen-predpraznicnih-obicajev-2-del.htm?t=a
"In German-speaking Alpine folklore, Krampus..."
It would be good to make it clear that the Krampus is NOT known in Germany. -- 213.196.252.177 ( talk) 09:15, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
This article was the sixth most popular on Wikipedia according to the Top 25 Report with 842,714 views for the week November 29 to December 5, 2015. The attention was probably related to the December 4 release of Krampus. Congratulations to the editors of this article for the exposure of their work. SchreiberBike | ⌨ 18:45, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
This article cites a source from the 50's during the era of neo-paganism's emergence. These traditions have nothing to do with 'witch covens,' on the contrary pagan rituals and the like bare little to no link to 'witches' given that the majority of witch-lore is imagined circa 1920's during it's birth with Gardnerian 'wica' (later 'wicca') which borrowed wholesale from Freemasonry given that Gardner was a Freemason expelled for his ... antics with young underage girls, ironically the focus of his later wica born 'sex magic' sadly many people have polluted actual pagan history with modern imaginings, and this appears to be another instance. I recommend that entire section be removed as it is quite clear the author isn't talking about the krampus myth purely, nor does he have the foggiest what he's talking about as he's just making loose speculations and guesses, and admits such. 121.211.33.244 ( talk) 14:50, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
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As an Austrian I can assure you, that Krampus is not carrying a bathtub on his back. Instead he is carrying a "Butte" something that actually has no English word. It is a kind of oversized wooden bucket or wicker basket carried with straps on the back like a backpack. It was used since the mideveal to transport wood and for the grape harvest - for the latter it is still used today (in pvc though). The wooden "Butte" was also used to transport coal in the 19th/20th century and in some Krampus traditions (varying strongly throughout the alpine countries)he is actually carrying a bit of coal in his "Butte" so the children would be even more afraid of him putting them into it. Here is a classic greeting card with a wicker Butte http://www.therainbowhub.com/grus-vom-krampus-greetings-krampus/ and an actual photo of a wooden Butte: http://www.mikeswerkstatt.at/uploads/objekte/1311264279.jpg (the accompanying text on the site even says:" Suitable for Krampus and vintners alike": http://www.mikeswerkstatt.at/verleih.php?cat=5 (scroll to middle). Since I'm not a native English speaker I can't exactly write down how the text should be edited though. TheStoryteller01 ( talk) 20:15, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Kallikantzaros I have a proposal: to include the link to the anatolian "Krampus" /info/en/?search=Kallikantzaros — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.185.55 ( talk) 11:46, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
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Article is not precise enough. Most of the pictures shown are actually not Krampus (punishes kids as Saint Nicholas' counterpart) but so-called "Perchten" which are alpine winter demons representing the power of nature. Easily mistaken for each other but massive differences in terms of origin and meaning.
CharlieLeoben ( talk) 12:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
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Under heading "In Popular Culture" it reads (in part):
television- both live action ("A Krampus Carol", a 2012 episode of The League[25]) and animation ("Minstrel Krampus", a 2013 episode of American Dad![24]),
After League[25] please add before the final bracket:
and "A Merry Murdoch Christmas", a 2015 episode of Murdoch Mysteries
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I've been searching for the origin of the Krampus, and according to the very own source which is used in order to justify it as a Norse word, it is from the German Language! He is the son of Hel from the Norse mythology, but his name is from the German Language! Unless someone can get another source which could explain this, I suggest we change Krampus' origins as German Language and not Norse language. Furthermore, in the Norse Language morphology, there is no case of a noun ending with -en. The only case where this is could have been possible is if it was a verb, and it would end with -e and not -en. So even if it did exist in the Norse language, it was not originated there... — Preceding unsigned comment added by TsumiHokiro ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_13#Category:Krampus. Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:36, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Krampus, whose name is derived from the German word krampen, meaning claw, is said to be the son of Hel in Norse mythology. The legendary beast also shares characteristics with other scary, demonic creatures in Greek mythology, including satyrs and fauns. Diwakar jha ( talk) 11:27, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
First, there are already too many pictures. They don't all need to be present. Second, formatting them as three separate galleries is even more problematic. On narrow layouts, they wrap oddly and create too many rows. It should be all one gallery not three. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 03:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
I also suggest we use {{ Gallery}} instead of the old formatting. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 02:08, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
The caption, "Krampus a Dobbiaco in Toblach", is not an WP:OVERLINK, it's a WP:REPEATLINK. Both used to be in the same section, but that changed a year ago because of confusion like this. First, Dobbiaco redirects to Toblach. Second, it's non-English and should be removed. Nice edit war though. Glad I stayed out of it. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Dear Walter Görlitz, why do you think that we should only link those regions which are not countries? On my Talk page you cited WP:OVERLINK. As you also quoted, it states that "Unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article, the following are not usually linked" and "location" is given as an example. While it might make sense deleting links to well-known locations (not just countries), it also includes locations like Northern Italy or Bavaria. Deleting only the links to countries and citing WP:OVERLINK is a quite strange interpretation of not linking locations. It may well be that, e.g., Slovenia is less known to many people (especially outside Europe) than Northern Italy, so deleting the link to the former one and leaving the link to the latter is questionable. In my view, either all links to well-known locations should be deleted, or all should be kept. The current solution gives undue weight to regions which remained linked. Cheers, KœrteFa {ταλκ} 23:50, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
The article lead currently says "The origin of the figure is unclear; some folklorists and anthropologists have postulated it as having pre-Christian origins, and that in Norse or Germanic mythology, he was the son of the goddess Hel." This claim is cited to news.nationalgeographic.com, which in fact simply says:
- Krampus, whose name is derived from the German word krampen, meaning claw, is said to be the son of Hel in Norse mythology. The legendary beast also shares characteristics with other scary, demonic creatures in Greek mythology, including satyrs and fauns.
In turn, National Geographic cites Encyclopedia Mythica, which is by no means a reliable source on the topic of Norse mythology, and is full of falsities culled from no where. In fact, because it's terrible, it is in fact blacklisted from this website ( since 2010, see here also). If it was ever there, it appears that Encyclopedia Mythica has removed the bit about Krampus. Maybe they got an email from a specialist, who knows.
So, in summary, no folklorists, no anthropologists, and no reliable source. As the primary author of Hel (being) and many other related topics, I can tell you that I'm not surprised. So, why was this edit reverted (@ Beyond My Ken:? :bloodofox: ( talk) 07:00, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I had added a piece of information which I got from a National Geographic article claiming that Krampus was the son of the Norse goddess Hel, but it had been removed for being a dubious claim. I'm fine with this. However, it had been restored then deleted again by two other people. I foresee that it may become an issue in the future, and I wish to bring a consensus on whether or not the information is reliable and should be included. I personally believe that National Geographic is a reliable source, but I do know that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Feel free to debate. The article in question is here. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131217-krampus-christmas-santa-devil/ DiegoAma ( talk) 11:20, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Alright, thanks. I seem to have missed that. DiegoAma ( talk) 11:29, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
The article is not about the nations, most of which are sufficiently common. They have not been linked for years and so I'm not sure why they would be now. See WP:OVERLINK. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 00:10, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
Just sth interesting here. was watching cnn this weekend and some artist from Abebo, Cote De Ivoire said sth about mask races and other contests in his village. Bokoharamwatch ( talk) 10:19, 11 January 2021 (UTC) PS It was African voices.
the text says St Nicholas wears the vestments of an Eastern Orthodox bishop, but in all the images he is wearing a Western-style Mitre. The other vestments are not clear but are not clearly Eastern.-- 142.163.194.149 ( talk) 23:06, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Cites in second sentence of beginning paragraph that St. Nicholas and Krampus visit on the 5th of December when it should be the 24/25. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C48:6C7F:C469:9D31:9E23:D766:3864 ( talk) 04:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
is the name pronounced cram puhs or cram poos 2A0D:3344:101:7B10:492E:AF29:4BA5:936C ( talk) 20:01, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia and the original author of the Krampus wiki keep taking down the information I provided which states that the information that is currently there on Wikipedia is wrong or incomplete, and when I provided the correct information showing that Krampus is the son of the Norse god hel, they remove my edit. Wikipedia can not take away from the truth, and sadly the information in the Krampus article is far from the origins or truth. 2606:9400:8B9F:D0C0:EC5C:994:D400:854F ( talk) 02:46, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
How can Krampus be “pre-Christian” if the earliest mention is 600-700 AD. Christianity started with Christ, first century AD.
Whoever wrote this should do some historical research. 2601:282:8600:270:C4AD:294E:CA9B:9959 ( talk) 01:20, 26 December 2023 (UTC)