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Replaced references to "Owens Corner" - there is no such place. It is Owers' Corner, which is the start/finish of the Kokoda Track through the Owen Stanley Range. Owers' Corner is situtated 61km NE (by road) of Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea. Killfactor 00:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Is it Owers' Corner or Ower's Corner? Assuming it was named after someone, was their name Ower or Owers? (Correct name was Captain Owers) In any case, the article seems to spell it without the apostrophe, and maybe this should be corrected throughout. M.J.E. ( talk) 12:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
It seems very common for possessive apostrophes to just fade from use with time, such as Surfers Paradise and Bells Beach. I just found some leftover "Owen's Corner"s in the infobox. SpoolWhippets ( talk) 03:24, 1 March 2010 (UTC) ... er, and some more in the body of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SpoolWhippets ( talk • contribs) 12:11, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Owers' Corner, is spelt with an apostrophe. Owers' Corner is named after Australian Army Captain Noel 'Jerry' Owers. ( http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/remember.nsf/pages/NT0000214E) [2]Paul ( Paul Roberton ( talk)) 13:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Added information about the Kokoda Track Foundation. Will add more (have foundation members sending me information). Killfactor 02:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Oops, forgot to log in before updating the page! --
kudz75 05:35, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Please help to redirect links to the new Battle page Kokoda Track Campaign. This Kokoda track page will deal with part history part present day hiking, not solely war orientated. Nomadtales 02:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I have deleted the following:
As an Australian, I think this is simply false (though it is often asserted in the Kokoda context). The common term 'fire trail' comes to mind. There are over 7 million Google hits for 'trail' with an Australian domain, predominantly wilderness related. This is a fair dinkum furphy.-- Jack Upland 08:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
It is absurd and unfair that someone has dumped contrary information into the article. I hope they can come up with a citation (though the American tourist theory seems unsupportable given the facts already laid out).-- Jack Upland 07:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
My references on the Kokoda Trail were given in the article. The first reference occurs in an Australian newspaper. You are the one peddling unsupported assertions (which seem "logical" to you!!!). As to the general Australian usage of "trail", I am not denying that the term "track" is commonly used. Of course it is! On the contrary, the onus is on you in the anti-trail brigade to prove that trail is "rarely, if ever" used. I refer back to my original comment, where I cited Google entries and the term "fire trail". Pre-WW2 usage may be harder to establish, but I'm prepared to look into it if you're prepared to at least try and substantiate your claims.-- Jack Upland 22:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
If you make a statement, the onus is on you to support it, not on other people to refute it.-- Jack Upland 23:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
The assertions I would like supported are:
Any (or preferably all) of those assertions would be nice.
I have walked the 'Kokoda Track'. Everyone who lives along the track uses that term. I agree totally with the assertions immediately preceding this - It should only be known/written as the 'KOKODA TRACK'!
The fact is that that the term 'Kokoda Trail' was generally used until recently (within the past decade). Since then - for whatever reason - a campaign has been launched to label this 'unAustralian', 'unhistorical, or whatever. To say that 'Kokoda Track' is now 'common usage' is merely to say that this ridiculous and ill-founded campaign has been successful. That may justify calling this page 'Kokoda Track'. It does not justify putting forward a false history on this issue, as was done previously. Jack Upland 10:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Unless someone puts up a logical case for "Track" I'm going to revert everything to "Trail". OK?-- Jack Upland ( talk) 12:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Recently added information regarding 'Track' sourced from my Grandfather, a WW II veteran. I would like to add a citation and am currently looking into finding where this is published which it should be. In the meantime maybe someone can advise the best way to verify quotes from a living person to meet Wikipedia guidelines? Still researching. Jaykay88 ( talk) 01:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Advice greatly appreciated. Am reading 'A Bastard Of A Place' by Peter Brune regarding Kokoda and the Papuan Campaign as I continue my research looking for published references. Thank you for letting the entry stand. Am sure I will be able to find verification before long. Jaykay88 ( talk) 09:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll call a spade and spade ( and a track a track). The Kokoda Track is so called because Australians call it that, and it is most proudly a 'virulent anti-Americanism'. It was fought by Australians, with little to no support from Generals Blamey and McArthur ('Kokoda' by Peter Fitzsimons Hodder, 2004 passim). Its one of those many things Australia did without the need for the Americans cf Gallipoli, Ypres, Beer Sheba, and East Timor for that matter. Anti-Americanism? Hell yes. I'll stop short of telling you what to do with your corncob pipe. Decisive enough???? And if I haven't offended anyone enough, I'll try a little harder. I'm walking Kokoda in July. If anyone else can tear themselves away from their computers long enough to lose their paunch and hike it as well, then I'll listen to you.
Proberton (
talk)
23:20, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As someone who went to school in the 1970s and 80s, I had the same experience. As to the knee-jerk anti-Americanism behind it, "Proberton" confirms this but fails to explain why we should accept this revisionism despite what we think of America and its present and past governments.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've never argued that any name was "correct", just that the pro-Trail arguments were false and prejudiced (as has been amply demonstrated). I don't know why you think the name change "shouldn't matter to Wikipedians". It's a valid issue and I think Wikipedia should document the reason for the change if possible.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have deleted the following:
It doesn't have any relation to the AWM website as it stands (apparently currently being updated), it doesn't cohere to the evidence already given in this article, it isn't logical to anyone not moronically anti-American, and as an appeal to authority it's weak and wishy-washy, given the use of "probably" twice in one sentence.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 11:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree with the above. There does seem to have been a revisionist campaign. Unfortunately it's hard to pin this campaign down because the claim is that it's always been called "Kokoda Track" (even though little or no evidence is produced.)
On the same topic the following sentence has been deleted on the grounds that it is "not true": "The first known published use of "Kokoda Trail" was in Sydney's Daily Mirror on 27 October 1942". On what basis is it said that it is untrue? I have re-inserted this information, reconnecting it with its source (footnote 22).-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
I had a look on Google Ngram Viewer ( https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Kokoda+Trail%2CKokoda+Track&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CKokoda%20Trail%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CKokoda%20Track%3B%2Cc0). The 1890s mention of 'Kokoda Trail' seems to be suspect when you view the source, nonetheless 'Kokoda Trail' is still the dominant term. Rwestera ( talk) 22:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Track rather than trail is just another wikiality that also has Dave Brown at David Brown, Don Bradman at Donald Bradman, and corn at maize — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.163.246 ( talk) 06:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article:
"In July 2007, a Papua New Guinean rugby player unofficially completed the trail in 11.5 hours - the fastest time yet. He began at 5:00am from Ower's Corner, reaching Kokoda village that evening. This was in training for the marathon to be held the next month."
I have searched, Papua New Guinean newspapers included, and can't find any evidence that this occurred. If someone can correctly cite it then do so. Nomadtales 02:17, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this feat to the Papuans on our trek to Kokoda last month (most from Buna-Gona-Sanananda) and it was suggested that this was achieved by former Melbourne Storm player Marcus Bai. Granted its original research, but I mention it more as a point of interest. Proberton ( talk) 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I've just done the trek, finishing 15 May 2008 You can buy Coke or bananas from most villages. One village didn't have the "shop" set up but we asked for Coke and they sold us some.
You can also ask for a guide in Port Moresby at Kokoda Track Authority, Boroko.
I completed the track South - North on July 14th. At that time, one could by soft drinks ranging from Sprite, Solo, New Guinea produced 330ml Coke cans, Twisties, Bananas and Pine apples. These villages include Nauro, Isurava and Deniki, Brigade Hill and Ioribaiwa. Proberton ( talk) 09:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
203.59.117.106 ( talk) 05:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this from the article:
I understand from above that it is a quotation from someone's relative, but it doesn't sit well with the published sources.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need the results of this every year???-- Jack Upland ( talk) 11:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Why not? It may be useful to someone coming here looking for that information; and those who are not interested will probably go past it. It does no harm to leave it in. M.J.E. ( talk) 12:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Wheelchair athlete Kurt Fearnley recently crawled the length of the trail in 9 days:
Wonder what that means for those who want to "test" the hiker's physical fitness before allowing them on the trail.
Tre.fire ( talk) 16:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey guys, Firstly - apolologies if I am not using the editing section correctly! I'm very new to wikipedia. :-) I'm actually a history student at the university of western australia and I am writing a history of Kokoda Trekking. You can find out more about the project here - www.mykokoda.com.au
I'm really interested in finding out who the first aussie/s were that made the journey. I've been looking in online newspaper archives (trove) but have not yet found a reference for John Landy's walk (wikipedia exerpt below). I might need to hit the microfilm soon! Is there any way I can find out who wrote the original post? It would be brilliant if you could point me in the right direction. Cheers! Jo
"After the war the track fell into disuse and disappeared in many places. John Landy, the long-distance runner, set a record of four days for the crossing using carriers and guides during the 1950s, and in 1964 Angus Henry, the art teacher at Sogeri High School with two of his students, John Kadiba and Misty Baloiloi, set a new record which was to stand until after the millennium by completing the journey in three and a quarter days without guides, carriers or any signposts or bridges." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hawkie55 ( talk • contribs)
This edit has been added and contested. The route surveyed by Stuart-Russell followed the Brown River and not the Kokoda track. Events that occurred are unrelated to the article subject. The track is from Illolo to Kokoda (96 km). Part of the added text would also refer to events near Buna, a similar distance from Kokoda. This is fairly clearly a case of WP:COATRACK and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. The material added might belong on WP somewhere but not at this article. Please see WP:BRD and WP:ONUS. If new material is contested, there is an onus to establish consensus for inclusion. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:04, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
... sent Captain Charles Monckton to resupply the group with food, ammunition and troopers of the Native Constabulary.Monkton p 154 (cited source but the citation is less the page number) describes this more simply as a relief mission, without such detail.
Conflict between these miners and the local tribes living around the track, led the colonial administration to send in paramilitary forces. From 1900, officers such as William Edington Armit ...[emphasis added] The miners in the Yodda Valley were to the west of Kokoda and in 1900, there was no Kokoda, as a government station until 1904. Armit operated from Tamata (now Ioma) ( Nelson, p121). I don't see how the AWM source supports this particular paragraph except in a most peripheral way.
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Replaced references to "Owens Corner" - there is no such place. It is Owers' Corner, which is the start/finish of the Kokoda Track through the Owen Stanley Range. Owers' Corner is situtated 61km NE (by road) of Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea. Killfactor 00:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Is it Owers' Corner or Ower's Corner? Assuming it was named after someone, was their name Ower or Owers? (Correct name was Captain Owers) In any case, the article seems to spell it without the apostrophe, and maybe this should be corrected throughout. M.J.E. ( talk) 12:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
It seems very common for possessive apostrophes to just fade from use with time, such as Surfers Paradise and Bells Beach. I just found some leftover "Owen's Corner"s in the infobox. SpoolWhippets ( talk) 03:24, 1 March 2010 (UTC) ... er, and some more in the body of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SpoolWhippets ( talk • contribs) 12:11, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Owers' Corner, is spelt with an apostrophe. Owers' Corner is named after Australian Army Captain Noel 'Jerry' Owers. ( http://ajrp.awm.gov.au/ajrp/remember.nsf/pages/NT0000214E) [2]Paul ( Paul Roberton ( talk)) 13:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Added information about the Kokoda Track Foundation. Will add more (have foundation members sending me information). Killfactor 02:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Oops, forgot to log in before updating the page! --
kudz75 05:35, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Please help to redirect links to the new Battle page Kokoda Track Campaign. This Kokoda track page will deal with part history part present day hiking, not solely war orientated. Nomadtales 02:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I have deleted the following:
As an Australian, I think this is simply false (though it is often asserted in the Kokoda context). The common term 'fire trail' comes to mind. There are over 7 million Google hits for 'trail' with an Australian domain, predominantly wilderness related. This is a fair dinkum furphy.-- Jack Upland 08:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
It is absurd and unfair that someone has dumped contrary information into the article. I hope they can come up with a citation (though the American tourist theory seems unsupportable given the facts already laid out).-- Jack Upland 07:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
My references on the Kokoda Trail were given in the article. The first reference occurs in an Australian newspaper. You are the one peddling unsupported assertions (which seem "logical" to you!!!). As to the general Australian usage of "trail", I am not denying that the term "track" is commonly used. Of course it is! On the contrary, the onus is on you in the anti-trail brigade to prove that trail is "rarely, if ever" used. I refer back to my original comment, where I cited Google entries and the term "fire trail". Pre-WW2 usage may be harder to establish, but I'm prepared to look into it if you're prepared to at least try and substantiate your claims.-- Jack Upland 22:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
If you make a statement, the onus is on you to support it, not on other people to refute it.-- Jack Upland 23:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
The assertions I would like supported are:
Any (or preferably all) of those assertions would be nice.
I have walked the 'Kokoda Track'. Everyone who lives along the track uses that term. I agree totally with the assertions immediately preceding this - It should only be known/written as the 'KOKODA TRACK'!
The fact is that that the term 'Kokoda Trail' was generally used until recently (within the past decade). Since then - for whatever reason - a campaign has been launched to label this 'unAustralian', 'unhistorical, or whatever. To say that 'Kokoda Track' is now 'common usage' is merely to say that this ridiculous and ill-founded campaign has been successful. That may justify calling this page 'Kokoda Track'. It does not justify putting forward a false history on this issue, as was done previously. Jack Upland 10:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Unless someone puts up a logical case for "Track" I'm going to revert everything to "Trail". OK?-- Jack Upland ( talk) 12:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Recently added information regarding 'Track' sourced from my Grandfather, a WW II veteran. I would like to add a citation and am currently looking into finding where this is published which it should be. In the meantime maybe someone can advise the best way to verify quotes from a living person to meet Wikipedia guidelines? Still researching. Jaykay88 ( talk) 01:26, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Advice greatly appreciated. Am reading 'A Bastard Of A Place' by Peter Brune regarding Kokoda and the Papuan Campaign as I continue my research looking for published references. Thank you for letting the entry stand. Am sure I will be able to find verification before long. Jaykay88 ( talk) 09:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll call a spade and spade ( and a track a track). The Kokoda Track is so called because Australians call it that, and it is most proudly a 'virulent anti-Americanism'. It was fought by Australians, with little to no support from Generals Blamey and McArthur ('Kokoda' by Peter Fitzsimons Hodder, 2004 passim). Its one of those many things Australia did without the need for the Americans cf Gallipoli, Ypres, Beer Sheba, and East Timor for that matter. Anti-Americanism? Hell yes. I'll stop short of telling you what to do with your corncob pipe. Decisive enough???? And if I haven't offended anyone enough, I'll try a little harder. I'm walking Kokoda in July. If anyone else can tear themselves away from their computers long enough to lose their paunch and hike it as well, then I'll listen to you.
Proberton (
talk)
23:20, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As someone who went to school in the 1970s and 80s, I had the same experience. As to the knee-jerk anti-Americanism behind it, "Proberton" confirms this but fails to explain why we should accept this revisionism despite what we think of America and its present and past governments.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:12, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've never argued that any name was "correct", just that the pro-Trail arguments were false and prejudiced (as has been amply demonstrated). I don't know why you think the name change "shouldn't matter to Wikipedians". It's a valid issue and I think Wikipedia should document the reason for the change if possible.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 10:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have deleted the following:
It doesn't have any relation to the AWM website as it stands (apparently currently being updated), it doesn't cohere to the evidence already given in this article, it isn't logical to anyone not moronically anti-American, and as an appeal to authority it's weak and wishy-washy, given the use of "probably" twice in one sentence.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 11:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I completely agree with the above. There does seem to have been a revisionist campaign. Unfortunately it's hard to pin this campaign down because the claim is that it's always been called "Kokoda Track" (even though little or no evidence is produced.)
On the same topic the following sentence has been deleted on the grounds that it is "not true": "The first known published use of "Kokoda Trail" was in Sydney's Daily Mirror on 27 October 1942". On what basis is it said that it is untrue? I have re-inserted this information, reconnecting it with its source (footnote 22).-- Jack Upland ( talk) 08:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
I had a look on Google Ngram Viewer ( https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Kokoda+Trail%2CKokoda+Track&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CKokoda%20Trail%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CKokoda%20Track%3B%2Cc0). The 1890s mention of 'Kokoda Trail' seems to be suspect when you view the source, nonetheless 'Kokoda Trail' is still the dominant term. Rwestera ( talk) 22:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Track rather than trail is just another wikiality that also has Dave Brown at David Brown, Don Bradman at Donald Bradman, and corn at maize — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.163.246 ( talk) 06:46, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article:
"In July 2007, a Papua New Guinean rugby player unofficially completed the trail in 11.5 hours - the fastest time yet. He began at 5:00am from Ower's Corner, reaching Kokoda village that evening. This was in training for the marathon to be held the next month."
I have searched, Papua New Guinean newspapers included, and can't find any evidence that this occurred. If someone can correctly cite it then do so. Nomadtales 02:17, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I mentioned this feat to the Papuans on our trek to Kokoda last month (most from Buna-Gona-Sanananda) and it was suggested that this was achieved by former Melbourne Storm player Marcus Bai. Granted its original research, but I mention it more as a point of interest. Proberton ( talk) 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I've just done the trek, finishing 15 May 2008 You can buy Coke or bananas from most villages. One village didn't have the "shop" set up but we asked for Coke and they sold us some.
You can also ask for a guide in Port Moresby at Kokoda Track Authority, Boroko.
I completed the track South - North on July 14th. At that time, one could by soft drinks ranging from Sprite, Solo, New Guinea produced 330ml Coke cans, Twisties, Bananas and Pine apples. These villages include Nauro, Isurava and Deniki, Brigade Hill and Ioribaiwa. Proberton ( talk) 09:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
203.59.117.106 ( talk) 05:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this from the article:
I understand from above that it is a quotation from someone's relative, but it doesn't sit well with the published sources.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Do we really need the results of this every year???-- Jack Upland ( talk) 11:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Why not? It may be useful to someone coming here looking for that information; and those who are not interested will probably go past it. It does no harm to leave it in. M.J.E. ( talk) 12:15, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Wheelchair athlete Kurt Fearnley recently crawled the length of the trail in 9 days:
Wonder what that means for those who want to "test" the hiker's physical fitness before allowing them on the trail.
Tre.fire ( talk) 16:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Hey guys, Firstly - apolologies if I am not using the editing section correctly! I'm very new to wikipedia. :-) I'm actually a history student at the university of western australia and I am writing a history of Kokoda Trekking. You can find out more about the project here - www.mykokoda.com.au
I'm really interested in finding out who the first aussie/s were that made the journey. I've been looking in online newspaper archives (trove) but have not yet found a reference for John Landy's walk (wikipedia exerpt below). I might need to hit the microfilm soon! Is there any way I can find out who wrote the original post? It would be brilliant if you could point me in the right direction. Cheers! Jo
"After the war the track fell into disuse and disappeared in many places. John Landy, the long-distance runner, set a record of four days for the crossing using carriers and guides during the 1950s, and in 1964 Angus Henry, the art teacher at Sogeri High School with two of his students, John Kadiba and Misty Baloiloi, set a new record which was to stand until after the millennium by completing the journey in three and a quarter days without guides, carriers or any signposts or bridges." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hawkie55 ( talk • contribs)
This edit has been added and contested. The route surveyed by Stuart-Russell followed the Brown River and not the Kokoda track. Events that occurred are unrelated to the article subject. The track is from Illolo to Kokoda (96 km). Part of the added text would also refer to events near Buna, a similar distance from Kokoda. This is fairly clearly a case of WP:COATRACK and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. The material added might belong on WP somewhere but not at this article. Please see WP:BRD and WP:ONUS. If new material is contested, there is an onus to establish consensus for inclusion. Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:04, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
... sent Captain Charles Monckton to resupply the group with food, ammunition and troopers of the Native Constabulary.Monkton p 154 (cited source but the citation is less the page number) describes this more simply as a relief mission, without such detail.
Conflict between these miners and the local tribes living around the track, led the colonial administration to send in paramilitary forces. From 1900, officers such as William Edington Armit ...[emphasis added] The miners in the Yodda Valley were to the west of Kokoda and in 1900, there was no Kokoda, as a government station until 1904. Armit operated from Tamata (now Ioma) ( Nelson, p121). I don't see how the AWM source supports this particular paragraph except in a most peripheral way.