This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I think this article really should be moved to 'Kirov class battlecruiser' as it seems to be more of a discussion of the class as a whole, and then a new article created for the individual vessels. Thoughts? — Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 01:14, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
In the first part of the article, it seems unlikely that the Iowa class battleship was returned to service to combat the Kirov class ship. During the end of the cold war, it was general knowledge that a "ship on ship" battle should never occur (a fact that was first shown during the Battle of the Coral Sea WWII). Missiles, subs, and/or aircraft would be the most likely methods of defeating the Kirov. The Iowa's 16" guns would be a last resort/defense. The Iowa class was returned to service for naval gunfire support (it did fire TOMAHAWK missiles from box launchers ABL, but this was an auxillary task since VLS and TTL is the primary method for TOMAHAWK).
The Iowas were indeed returned to service in response to the introduction of the Kirov, but it was more a matter of prestiege than combat effectiveness; the U.S. Navy didn't want to let the Soviets have a warship that was bigger and more powerful than anything it had, so it brought back the Iowas with secondary missile armament added.
If I have deciphered this Chinese website correctly, the ships have carried the following pennant numbers
All very confusing. Was this constant redesignation of warships normal Soviet practice? Bastie 10:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I recall talking to a serviceman who stated that the Kirov had features to reduce its radar signature (presumably to the level of or below other ships in the fleet). On at least one sensor it could be identified via the fact that the wake was visible before the ship was. Does anyone else have sources on this? -- Hrimpurstala ( talk) 21:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have an idea what the stripe or bump is that runs nearly the length of the ship on the hull above the waterline? -- Dual Freq ( talk) 19:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
If I'm looking at the same thing you are (bends up and over the pennant number 085), it's a degaussing cable. Used for minimizing the ship's magnetic signature or something. 72.219.233.42 ( talk) 01:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
The article contains quotations footnoted to Bellona regarding comments by Kuroyedov and possible political issues surrounding the PETR VELIKIY. These comments contained in a Bellona article cite Novaya Gazeta as the source for the "political" discussion. This discussion also references the former commanding officer of PETR VELIKIY as the nephew of Admiral Kasatonov. Novaya Gazeta provides no source citations and is not inherently an authoritative source for naval reporting. Further, the Bellona article clearly lacks professional review since it purports to show a picture of the SLAVA Class cruiser annotated as a KIROV Class nuclear cruiser. Федоров ( talk) 19:37, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Reporting from www.globalsecurity.org not known to be authoritative when compared with data from Yu.V. Apalkov who has direct access to Russian Navy source data. Discussion of additional possible names for the fifth never laid down hull is not substantiated by either fact or Russian naval practice. Moryak ( talk) 23:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
ex-Kirov was pierside when this image was taken. ex-Kirov was the only unit with two gun mounts aft. This image depicts another Kirov class, possibly Peter Velikiy as the other two are Pacific ships. This one, near Fokino, Primorsky Krai, looks pretty stripped down may be ex-Frunze since it's in the Pacific and the forward launchers look covered or removed and appears to be an inactive area, maybe a mothball fleet. This one near Bolshoy Kamen is a 4th Kirov class, the second ship in the Pacific, possibly ex-Kalinin. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 06:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
<<>>
<<>>
The issue of the Fokino Kirov CGN is easily solved by the simple fact that only ONE Kirov, the Admiral Lazarev (ex-Frunze), was ever transferred to the Pacific. Only four Kirovs were built. Moryak ( talk) 23:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
So, does the big flag in the infobox for ship classes generally refer to whichever navy was the primary user of the ships in question, or just the first one to deploy them? I'm just wondering if there's some standard for why it would be the Soviet flag that is displayed here and not the Russian flag (If we normally show the flag of whoever deployed the ships first, or whoever deployed the most ships of the class, I guess using the Soviet flag would make sense).-- Raguleader 04:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
You do have a point there. I really think it should be the Russian flag. Maybe we should follow the pattern of other USSR/CIS ships and go with that. I don't have time to do some reasearch now, but I'll look back later. Jeremy Wang 01:16, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
It is argued that Kirov is not a battle cruiser because it lacks the characteristic heavy armor of battlecruisers. That makes absolutly no sense as the defining characteristics of a battlecruiser is that it is not as armored as a battleship. Battle cruisers are in general not smaller than battleships (e.g. compare Hood and Bismarck - Hood was actually longer and equally large). The original idea behind the battlecruiser concept was to built a ship which is more powerful than a cruiser in order to hunt cruisers and much faster than a battleship in order to escape the slower and more heavier armored battleships. The Russians refer to these ships as cruisers simply because their operational function is more similar to those of a cruiser simply because the battleship against battleship and battlecruiser against battlecruiser fights of world war two are long gone.
In the article it says: "Propulsion: 2-shaft CONAS, 2× KN-3 nuclear propulsion with 2× GT3A-688 steam turbines 140,000 shp[1] Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h) Range: 1,000 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 30 knots (56 km/h) (combined propulsion), Essentially unlimited with nuclear power at 20 knots (37 km/h)"
in the FAS org it says: "The ship's propulsion system is based on a combination of nuclear power and steam turbine, with two [four according to some sources] nuclear reactors and two auxiliary boilers. The propulsion system provides a full speed of 31 knots. When operating on the auxiliary boilers the ship's speed is 14 knots and the ship has an endurance of 60 days. The selection of the machinery was determined by the role of the cruiser and its assigned missions. The automated main nuclear machinery comprises two reactors (to produce steam for operation), two main geared-turbine units developing 70,000 hp each (to ensure full cruiser speed of at least 30 knots) and two stand-by steam boilers of 115 t/h capacity. The stand-by steam boilers provide for development of 17 knots with nuclear reactors shut-off and ensure an operation range of up to 1,000 miles with shipborne fuel."
(correct me if I am wrong) This means, ship uses Nuclear reactors to boil water and produce steam that drives steam turbines. With nuclear power, ships range is unlimited at its full speed. In case of emergency, two steam boilers are fitted, they provide 17 knots speed and 1000 nm range without the use of nuclear reactors.
I think the article should be edited like: "Propulsion: 2-shaft CONAS, 2× KN-3 nuclear reactors(300MW each), 2× GT3A-688 steam turbines, 2x auxiliary boilers, 140,000 shp[1] Speed: 30 knots+ (56+ km/h) Range: unlimited with nuclear power, 1000nmi on auxiliary boilers at 17 knots (30 km/h)"
Suggestions?? 78.166.75.118 ( talk) 01:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Both seem wrong. Believe the reactor is the primary power source- it converts water to steam. the boilers are only able to super-heat the steam to a higher temperature and provide an higher speed (greater power from better thermal efficiency). If the reactors were out, they are dead in the water. There is one max speed with just the reactors, and a higher speed possible with the boiler also in use. World War Two (WWII) designed boilers had a M shaped furnace- 2nd side controlled the superheat- which was needed for a higher power/speed. Normal operations might not use the superheat at all. 1950s era designed boilers changed to a D shaped boiler and better protection to the tubes for super-heating, and remove ability to control amount of superheat from the operator. (see Water-tube boiler (section for D-type boiler). I am saying unlimited range at 20Knots, (max power from reactors) range for faster than 20 knots is "1000 miles" (or more range at say 24 knots). Realize the stupid element of design as I describe it (dead with out reactors, but there are 2). . 74.214.39.190 ( talk) 23:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
The statement in this title has come under some question. If there is an erstwhile editor that does not agree with the title statement, please provide proof that it is incorrect. Otherwise, the attempt to insert "possibly" has no meaning. Федоров ( talk) 21:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Just to add, every edit page states that content must be "verifiable". Given the characteristics of the Kirov Class cruiser, I again challenge anyone to show how the Kirov Class is not verifiably the "most powerful" current surface warship class other than aircraft carriers. Федоров ( talk) 23:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
While I personally agree with this statement, it isn't verifiable. To demand others prove a negative is unreasonable. As it is essentially a value judgement, I think the statement should be removed. The capabilities of the ship are stated, and stand or fall on their own merit. HMS Vanguard ( talk) 18:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
It is clearly not the most powerful. The most powerful were the Musashi and Yamato. Nothing built since have been more powerful. As for "today", there are still Iowa-class battleships extant in the world, even if they are not in service. 70.29.208.247 ( talk) 05:06, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
There is no denying the main anti-ship battery is the most potent in the world. No Ticonderoga carries that many Tomahwaks, the anti ship Tomahawk is long retired, and even when it was in service, it was easy to shoot down comapred to a Granit. -Shamil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.111.153 ( talk) 06:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Kirov class battlecruiser. Favonian ( talk) 09:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Russian Kirov class heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser → Kirov class battlecruiser – This got moved last month, apparently without any attempt to go through a move request, and while moving it back would be the easiest option here I do concede a point that the article's subject matter is misnamed - the Russians call these ships "heavy missile cruisers", not battlecruisers, and they only go by that name in the west because Janes All the World's Combat Ships listed these vessels as "battlecruisers" in their 198x edition. Despite that, per Wikipedia's naming conventions, I submit that the page should be returned to its original location at Kirov class battlecruiser because that is the name that everyone associated the ships with, regardless of how they are actually classified. TomStar81 ( Talk) 05:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
According to results of google books.
-- Takabeg ( talk) 14:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
The second paragraph ends with "The appearance of the Kirov class played a role in the recommissioning of the Iowa class battleships." This is potentially interesting, but the rest of the article makes no more mention if it; the article would benefit from explaining what reaction the Kirov-classic battlecruisers provoked in the West, and how this contributed to the recommissioning of the Iowa class battleships. - Ashley Pomeroy ( talk) 16:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This claim does not make very much sense. Iowa has no relevant capabilities for countering a Kirov. If no citation can be found, this sentence should be removed. HMS Vanguard ( talk) 15:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
There have been several variants of the BGM-109 Tomahawk employing various types of warheads. AGM-109H/L Medium Range Air to Surface Missile (MRASM) - a shorter range, turbojet powered ASM with bomblet munitions; never entered service BGM-109A Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Nuclear (TLAM-A) with a W80 nuclear warhead BGM-109C Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Conventional (TLAM-C) with a unitary warhead BGM-109D Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Dispenser (TLAM-D) with submunitions BGM-109G Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM)- with a W84 nuclear warhead; withdrawn from service 1987 RGM/UGM-109B Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile (TASM) - radar guided anti-shipping variant RGM/UGM-109E Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM Block IV) - improved version of the TLAM-C
...
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-109.html
Name: RGM/UGM-109B Range: 460 km Speed: 880 km/h
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit
Name: P-700 (SS-N-19) Maximum Speed: Mach* 1.6-2.5 Range: 550 - 625 km
Oops... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.35.251.250 ( talk) 16:59, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
This ship class is called the Orlan class, not Kirov class. NATO perhaps thought it was Kirov because the lead ship of the class was called the Kirov? I oppose en-Wikipedia's habit in naming articles about Soviet Union's ship classes after their NATO callsigns etc. even though they have their original, official class names as well! I understand that many of us have originally heard of Soviet military hardware via NATO sources, calling them Typhoon, Kirov, Akula, Fulcrum and so on, but is there any reason keep on calling them with those names? Also, the en-Wikipedia is the biggest language version of Wikipedia and considered the reference for others. It should be neutral about these issues, not representing some USA-centered NATO view of things exhibiting NATO military slang. 213.243.160.111 07:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
The names referred to above as "class names" are in fact NOT. These are Russian Navy assigned overall covername for individual ship designs. There is nothing wrong with using the NATO assigned names, particularly now that the Russian Navy announces the name of the lead unit of class. Using the name of first-of-class as the class name is standard and dominant world practice and not just a USA-centered NATO view. Previous NATO practice, creating class names from whole cloth in the absence of of any such being known in the Soviet era, could legitimately be called into question but at that time no one came up with a better scheme. Moryak ( talk) 23:35, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- For the sake of neutrality both names should be there - Coolgeek96 —Preceding undated comment added 23:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Xoloz ( talk) 02:03, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Kirov-class battlecruiser →
Kirov-class cruiser (1974) – The WWII era kirov class is renamed with year to avoid ambiguity.So it should be renamed as kirov-class cruiser.Since usually scholars won't treat it as battlecruiser. --Relisted.
Xoloz (
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According to "A compendium of armaments and military hardware" (Routledge Revivals) by Christpher Chant https://books.google.se/books?id=zUu4AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA191&dq=kirov+SS-N-4+radar&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTlb61vo_bAhXCFZoKHRj9AjgQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=kirov%20SS-N-4%20radar&f=false two "Eye Bowl" radars are used for SS-N-14 firecontrol but two "Pop Group" for fire control of SS-N-4 (which is often combined with Pop Group). 150.227.15.253 ( talk) 14:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
The article currently says a Russian admiral said one of the ship's reactors were in such bad shape they could "explode at any moment". This needs either clarification -- or removal.
Nuclear reactors don't explode, like nuclear weapons. If they fail they can meltdown. If poorly maintained their boilers could burst. Someone could describe a bursting boiler as an "explosion". But it would be misleading to do so, when many readers are likely to assume a reactor failure would result in a nuclear explosion. Fictions, like Aliens, routinely have nuclear reactors undergo a nuclear explosion, when they are damaged, or are set to self-destruct.
If a Russian admiral made this comment, he probably made it in Russian. He may have used a Russian word that Russians would understand meant burst, not explode, like a nuclear bomb.
If we can confirm he meant burst, not explode, we should say that. Geo Swan ( talk) 08:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Kirov is a heavy, nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser, not a battleship. I refer to this discussion to support the move to the more appropriate article designation of Kirov class heavy cruiser. Recon.Army ( talk) 17:34, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I think this article really should be moved to 'Kirov class battlecruiser' as it seems to be more of a discussion of the class as a whole, and then a new article created for the individual vessels. Thoughts? — Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 01:14, 2005 Jan 3 (UTC)
In the first part of the article, it seems unlikely that the Iowa class battleship was returned to service to combat the Kirov class ship. During the end of the cold war, it was general knowledge that a "ship on ship" battle should never occur (a fact that was first shown during the Battle of the Coral Sea WWII). Missiles, subs, and/or aircraft would be the most likely methods of defeating the Kirov. The Iowa's 16" guns would be a last resort/defense. The Iowa class was returned to service for naval gunfire support (it did fire TOMAHAWK missiles from box launchers ABL, but this was an auxillary task since VLS and TTL is the primary method for TOMAHAWK).
The Iowas were indeed returned to service in response to the introduction of the Kirov, but it was more a matter of prestiege than combat effectiveness; the U.S. Navy didn't want to let the Soviets have a warship that was bigger and more powerful than anything it had, so it brought back the Iowas with secondary missile armament added.
If I have deciphered this Chinese website correctly, the ships have carried the following pennant numbers
All very confusing. Was this constant redesignation of warships normal Soviet practice? Bastie 10:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I recall talking to a serviceman who stated that the Kirov had features to reduce its radar signature (presumably to the level of or below other ships in the fleet). On at least one sensor it could be identified via the fact that the wake was visible before the ship was. Does anyone else have sources on this? -- Hrimpurstala ( talk) 21:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have an idea what the stripe or bump is that runs nearly the length of the ship on the hull above the waterline? -- Dual Freq ( talk) 19:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
If I'm looking at the same thing you are (bends up and over the pennant number 085), it's a degaussing cable. Used for minimizing the ship's magnetic signature or something. 72.219.233.42 ( talk) 01:18, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
The article contains quotations footnoted to Bellona regarding comments by Kuroyedov and possible political issues surrounding the PETR VELIKIY. These comments contained in a Bellona article cite Novaya Gazeta as the source for the "political" discussion. This discussion also references the former commanding officer of PETR VELIKIY as the nephew of Admiral Kasatonov. Novaya Gazeta provides no source citations and is not inherently an authoritative source for naval reporting. Further, the Bellona article clearly lacks professional review since it purports to show a picture of the SLAVA Class cruiser annotated as a KIROV Class nuclear cruiser. Федоров ( talk) 19:37, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Reporting from www.globalsecurity.org not known to be authoritative when compared with data from Yu.V. Apalkov who has direct access to Russian Navy source data. Discussion of additional possible names for the fifth never laid down hull is not substantiated by either fact or Russian naval practice. Moryak ( talk) 23:28, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
ex-Kirov was pierside when this image was taken. ex-Kirov was the only unit with two gun mounts aft. This image depicts another Kirov class, possibly Peter Velikiy as the other two are Pacific ships. This one, near Fokino, Primorsky Krai, looks pretty stripped down may be ex-Frunze since it's in the Pacific and the forward launchers look covered or removed and appears to be an inactive area, maybe a mothball fleet. This one near Bolshoy Kamen is a 4th Kirov class, the second ship in the Pacific, possibly ex-Kalinin. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 06:07, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
<<>>
<<>>
The issue of the Fokino Kirov CGN is easily solved by the simple fact that only ONE Kirov, the Admiral Lazarev (ex-Frunze), was ever transferred to the Pacific. Only four Kirovs were built. Moryak ( talk) 23:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
So, does the big flag in the infobox for ship classes generally refer to whichever navy was the primary user of the ships in question, or just the first one to deploy them? I'm just wondering if there's some standard for why it would be the Soviet flag that is displayed here and not the Russian flag (If we normally show the flag of whoever deployed the ships first, or whoever deployed the most ships of the class, I guess using the Soviet flag would make sense).-- Raguleader 04:29, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
You do have a point there. I really think it should be the Russian flag. Maybe we should follow the pattern of other USSR/CIS ships and go with that. I don't have time to do some reasearch now, but I'll look back later. Jeremy Wang 01:16, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
It is argued that Kirov is not a battle cruiser because it lacks the characteristic heavy armor of battlecruisers. That makes absolutly no sense as the defining characteristics of a battlecruiser is that it is not as armored as a battleship. Battle cruisers are in general not smaller than battleships (e.g. compare Hood and Bismarck - Hood was actually longer and equally large). The original idea behind the battlecruiser concept was to built a ship which is more powerful than a cruiser in order to hunt cruisers and much faster than a battleship in order to escape the slower and more heavier armored battleships. The Russians refer to these ships as cruisers simply because their operational function is more similar to those of a cruiser simply because the battleship against battleship and battlecruiser against battlecruiser fights of world war two are long gone.
In the article it says: "Propulsion: 2-shaft CONAS, 2× KN-3 nuclear propulsion with 2× GT3A-688 steam turbines 140,000 shp[1] Speed: 32 knots (59 km/h) Range: 1,000 nautical miles (2,000 km) at 30 knots (56 km/h) (combined propulsion), Essentially unlimited with nuclear power at 20 knots (37 km/h)"
in the FAS org it says: "The ship's propulsion system is based on a combination of nuclear power and steam turbine, with two [four according to some sources] nuclear reactors and two auxiliary boilers. The propulsion system provides a full speed of 31 knots. When operating on the auxiliary boilers the ship's speed is 14 knots and the ship has an endurance of 60 days. The selection of the machinery was determined by the role of the cruiser and its assigned missions. The automated main nuclear machinery comprises two reactors (to produce steam for operation), two main geared-turbine units developing 70,000 hp each (to ensure full cruiser speed of at least 30 knots) and two stand-by steam boilers of 115 t/h capacity. The stand-by steam boilers provide for development of 17 knots with nuclear reactors shut-off and ensure an operation range of up to 1,000 miles with shipborne fuel."
(correct me if I am wrong) This means, ship uses Nuclear reactors to boil water and produce steam that drives steam turbines. With nuclear power, ships range is unlimited at its full speed. In case of emergency, two steam boilers are fitted, they provide 17 knots speed and 1000 nm range without the use of nuclear reactors.
I think the article should be edited like: "Propulsion: 2-shaft CONAS, 2× KN-3 nuclear reactors(300MW each), 2× GT3A-688 steam turbines, 2x auxiliary boilers, 140,000 shp[1] Speed: 30 knots+ (56+ km/h) Range: unlimited with nuclear power, 1000nmi on auxiliary boilers at 17 knots (30 km/h)"
Suggestions?? 78.166.75.118 ( talk) 01:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Both seem wrong. Believe the reactor is the primary power source- it converts water to steam. the boilers are only able to super-heat the steam to a higher temperature and provide an higher speed (greater power from better thermal efficiency). If the reactors were out, they are dead in the water. There is one max speed with just the reactors, and a higher speed possible with the boiler also in use. World War Two (WWII) designed boilers had a M shaped furnace- 2nd side controlled the superheat- which was needed for a higher power/speed. Normal operations might not use the superheat at all. 1950s era designed boilers changed to a D shaped boiler and better protection to the tubes for super-heating, and remove ability to control amount of superheat from the operator. (see Water-tube boiler (section for D-type boiler). I am saying unlimited range at 20Knots, (max power from reactors) range for faster than 20 knots is "1000 miles" (or more range at say 24 knots). Realize the stupid element of design as I describe it (dead with out reactors, but there are 2). . 74.214.39.190 ( talk) 23:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
The statement in this title has come under some question. If there is an erstwhile editor that does not agree with the title statement, please provide proof that it is incorrect. Otherwise, the attempt to insert "possibly" has no meaning. Федоров ( talk) 21:13, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Just to add, every edit page states that content must be "verifiable". Given the characteristics of the Kirov Class cruiser, I again challenge anyone to show how the Kirov Class is not verifiably the "most powerful" current surface warship class other than aircraft carriers. Федоров ( talk) 23:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
While I personally agree with this statement, it isn't verifiable. To demand others prove a negative is unreasonable. As it is essentially a value judgement, I think the statement should be removed. The capabilities of the ship are stated, and stand or fall on their own merit. HMS Vanguard ( talk) 18:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
It is clearly not the most powerful. The most powerful were the Musashi and Yamato. Nothing built since have been more powerful. As for "today", there are still Iowa-class battleships extant in the world, even if they are not in service. 70.29.208.247 ( talk) 05:06, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
There is no denying the main anti-ship battery is the most potent in the world. No Ticonderoga carries that many Tomahwaks, the anti ship Tomahawk is long retired, and even when it was in service, it was easy to shoot down comapred to a Granit. -Shamil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.111.153 ( talk) 06:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Kirov class battlecruiser. Favonian ( talk) 09:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Russian Kirov class heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser → Kirov class battlecruiser – This got moved last month, apparently without any attempt to go through a move request, and while moving it back would be the easiest option here I do concede a point that the article's subject matter is misnamed - the Russians call these ships "heavy missile cruisers", not battlecruisers, and they only go by that name in the west because Janes All the World's Combat Ships listed these vessels as "battlecruisers" in their 198x edition. Despite that, per Wikipedia's naming conventions, I submit that the page should be returned to its original location at Kirov class battlecruiser because that is the name that everyone associated the ships with, regardless of how they are actually classified. TomStar81 ( Talk) 05:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
According to results of google books.
-- Takabeg ( talk) 14:13, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
The second paragraph ends with "The appearance of the Kirov class played a role in the recommissioning of the Iowa class battleships." This is potentially interesting, but the rest of the article makes no more mention if it; the article would benefit from explaining what reaction the Kirov-classic battlecruisers provoked in the West, and how this contributed to the recommissioning of the Iowa class battleships. - Ashley Pomeroy ( talk) 16:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This claim does not make very much sense. Iowa has no relevant capabilities for countering a Kirov. If no citation can be found, this sentence should be removed. HMS Vanguard ( talk) 15:20, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
There have been several variants of the BGM-109 Tomahawk employing various types of warheads. AGM-109H/L Medium Range Air to Surface Missile (MRASM) - a shorter range, turbojet powered ASM with bomblet munitions; never entered service BGM-109A Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Nuclear (TLAM-A) with a W80 nuclear warhead BGM-109C Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Conventional (TLAM-C) with a unitary warhead BGM-109D Tomahawk Land Attack Missile - Dispenser (TLAM-D) with submunitions BGM-109G Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM)- with a W84 nuclear warhead; withdrawn from service 1987 RGM/UGM-109B Tomahawk Anti Ship Missile (TASM) - radar guided anti-shipping variant RGM/UGM-109E Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM Block IV) - improved version of the TLAM-C
...
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-109.html
Name: RGM/UGM-109B Range: 460 km Speed: 880 km/h
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit
Name: P-700 (SS-N-19) Maximum Speed: Mach* 1.6-2.5 Range: 550 - 625 km
Oops... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.35.251.250 ( talk) 16:59, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
This ship class is called the Orlan class, not Kirov class. NATO perhaps thought it was Kirov because the lead ship of the class was called the Kirov? I oppose en-Wikipedia's habit in naming articles about Soviet Union's ship classes after their NATO callsigns etc. even though they have their original, official class names as well! I understand that many of us have originally heard of Soviet military hardware via NATO sources, calling them Typhoon, Kirov, Akula, Fulcrum and so on, but is there any reason keep on calling them with those names? Also, the en-Wikipedia is the biggest language version of Wikipedia and considered the reference for others. It should be neutral about these issues, not representing some USA-centered NATO view of things exhibiting NATO military slang. 213.243.160.111 07:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
The names referred to above as "class names" are in fact NOT. These are Russian Navy assigned overall covername for individual ship designs. There is nothing wrong with using the NATO assigned names, particularly now that the Russian Navy announces the name of the lead unit of class. Using the name of first-of-class as the class name is standard and dominant world practice and not just a USA-centered NATO view. Previous NATO practice, creating class names from whole cloth in the absence of of any such being known in the Soviet era, could legitimately be called into question but at that time no one came up with a better scheme. Moryak ( talk) 23:35, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- For the sake of neutrality both names should be there - Coolgeek96 —Preceding undated comment added 23:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Xoloz ( talk) 02:03, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Kirov-class battlecruiser →
Kirov-class cruiser (1974) – The WWII era kirov class is renamed with year to avoid ambiguity.So it should be renamed as kirov-class cruiser.Since usually scholars won't treat it as battlecruiser. --Relisted.
Xoloz (
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According to "A compendium of armaments and military hardware" (Routledge Revivals) by Christpher Chant https://books.google.se/books?id=zUu4AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA191&dq=kirov+SS-N-4+radar&hl=sv&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTlb61vo_bAhXCFZoKHRj9AjgQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=kirov%20SS-N-4%20radar&f=false two "Eye Bowl" radars are used for SS-N-14 firecontrol but two "Pop Group" for fire control of SS-N-4 (which is often combined with Pop Group). 150.227.15.253 ( talk) 14:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
The article currently says a Russian admiral said one of the ship's reactors were in such bad shape they could "explode at any moment". This needs either clarification -- or removal.
Nuclear reactors don't explode, like nuclear weapons. If they fail they can meltdown. If poorly maintained their boilers could burst. Someone could describe a bursting boiler as an "explosion". But it would be misleading to do so, when many readers are likely to assume a reactor failure would result in a nuclear explosion. Fictions, like Aliens, routinely have nuclear reactors undergo a nuclear explosion, when they are damaged, or are set to self-destruct.
If a Russian admiral made this comment, he probably made it in Russian. He may have used a Russian word that Russians would understand meant burst, not explode, like a nuclear bomb.
If we can confirm he meant burst, not explode, we should say that. Geo Swan ( talk) 08:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Kirov is a heavy, nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser, not a battleship. I refer to this discussion to support the move to the more appropriate article designation of Kirov class heavy cruiser. Recon.Army ( talk) 17:34, 28 July 2011 (UTC)