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Requested move 29 October 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved. The general consensus reflected in
WP:DEATHS and various previous move discussions is that if someone is shot but survives, the title begins with "Shooting", while if they were killed by the shooting, the title begins with "Killing". Since Nieto died from the shooting, "Killing of Alex Nieto" it is. (
non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (
投稿)
02:18, 15 November 2021 (UTC)reply
The only trial in this case was a federal civil suit, which determined that the officers "did not use excessive force"
[1] and did not violate the constitutional rights of Alex Nieto. Self-defence wasn't specifically addressed.
162 etc. (
talk)
16:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose: The "Killing of" form implies an intentional plan to kill and is awkward in English. This incident had a self-defense argument and clearly no premeditation. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
22:01, 4 November 2021 (UTC)reply
I disagree that the word "kill" implies intent in the English language. The word "kill" is listed in dozens of English dictionaries with no reference to intent. "Accidental killing" is a well established categorization of crimes under English Common Law which is still in use in England, the USA, Canada, and Australia. The word "kill" in American mass media is frequently used without regard to intent or premeditation; this is exceptionally common in cases of drunk driving. In academia, in the court of law, and in common usage English, the word "kill" carries no implications of intent. Combefere❯❯❯Talk01:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)reply
There are several major dictionaries of English that say that the word killing, as a noun (forget kill, that's a different form with its own definition), implies intent. There's also a big difference between killing, as a word used by itself, and a clarified form of it, such as accidental killing. This proposal is about "Killing of X", not something different like kill or 'accidental killing. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)reply
"Shooting" is not reserved for when the shot person survives. In fact the vast majority of "Shooting" articles on Wikipedia involve dead shot people, and
WP:DEATHS is just the result of an overzealous recent campaign and is neither a policy nor a guideline on Wikipedia. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
14:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)reply
POV Caution: The short description of this article used the term "victim". (Since corrected.) WP editors must maintain a strict non-POV approach with articles like this. While somewhat awkward, "
Homicide of ____" might avoid this
WP:POLICY problem. Such titles would be accurate and NPOV. Moreover, they might stimulate reader interest. –
S. Rich (
talk)
01:05, 9 November 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article has been
automatically rated by a
bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
This article is within the
scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please
Join,
Create, and
Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
This article has not yet received a rating on the
importance scale.
Requested move 29 October 2021
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved. The general consensus reflected in
WP:DEATHS and various previous move discussions is that if someone is shot but survives, the title begins with "Shooting", while if they were killed by the shooting, the title begins with "Killing". Since Nieto died from the shooting, "Killing of Alex Nieto" it is. (
non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (
投稿)
02:18, 15 November 2021 (UTC)reply
The only trial in this case was a federal civil suit, which determined that the officers "did not use excessive force"
[1] and did not violate the constitutional rights of Alex Nieto. Self-defence wasn't specifically addressed.
162 etc. (
talk)
16:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose: The "Killing of" form implies an intentional plan to kill and is awkward in English. This incident had a self-defense argument and clearly no premeditation. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
22:01, 4 November 2021 (UTC)reply
I disagree that the word "kill" implies intent in the English language. The word "kill" is listed in dozens of English dictionaries with no reference to intent. "Accidental killing" is a well established categorization of crimes under English Common Law which is still in use in England, the USA, Canada, and Australia. The word "kill" in American mass media is frequently used without regard to intent or premeditation; this is exceptionally common in cases of drunk driving. In academia, in the court of law, and in common usage English, the word "kill" carries no implications of intent. Combefere❯❯❯Talk01:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)reply
There are several major dictionaries of English that say that the word killing, as a noun (forget kill, that's a different form with its own definition), implies intent. There's also a big difference between killing, as a word used by itself, and a clarified form of it, such as accidental killing. This proposal is about "Killing of X", not something different like kill or 'accidental killing. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
18:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)reply
"Shooting" is not reserved for when the shot person survives. In fact the vast majority of "Shooting" articles on Wikipedia involve dead shot people, and
WP:DEATHS is just the result of an overzealous recent campaign and is neither a policy nor a guideline on Wikipedia. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
14:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)reply
POV Caution: The short description of this article used the term "victim". (Since corrected.) WP editors must maintain a strict non-POV approach with articles like this. While somewhat awkward, "
Homicide of ____" might avoid this
WP:POLICY problem. Such titles would be accurate and NPOV. Moreover, they might stimulate reader interest. –
S. Rich (
talk)
01:05, 9 November 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.