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I am not certain this character qualifies as a serial killer. Brutal? Homicidal? Certainly, but those characteristics do not make him a serial killer. There's nothing to suggest that anyone he's killed were due to some psychological compulsion of his. Does anyone oppose removing him from this list?
In the article it mentions only two usages of the phrase, one being satanic the other being a fabrication of another villain, but I have quite frequently seen it used in another sense: To coalesce a story using background objects.
An example of this is in American Dad, where Roger at one point says he "Keyser Soze'd [a] name using [Stan's] coffee cup". Tetris11 ( talk) 11:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
It is also referenced in the pilot episode of "Go On" starring Matthew Perry (airdate: 08 Aug 2012 on NBC). When confronted by the group leader about his loss Perry's character, sports radio talk show host Ryan King, spins a tale about his wife dying from a rare blood disease. She embraces him and acknowledges how brave it was for him to open up and share his feelings with her. He responds by saying, "It wasn't brave." She: "It was." He: "It wasn't... true." She: "Which part?" He: "The whole thing. I made it up. Salamone isn't a disease. It's a restaurant right over there. I Keyser Söze'd you." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.230.130.228 ( talk) 02:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Its not confirmed that Spacey was indeed Soze and there is even some dispute by the actors in the film as to who he is. The director I believe also mentioned that he wasn't neccessarily Soze.
There is one thing the movie is clear about - the entire story is a LIE. Any attempt to try to pull any facts out of it is silly because we know that EVERYTHING we know is Verbal's version of events, and since we pretty sure VERBAL does not exist... it would make sense that neither do ANY facts.
The devil's biggest trick is to make the world think he doesn't exist. This story's biggest trick is to make you think ANY of it actually took place.
-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.81.124 ( talk) 00:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Soze is either i) Kint (Spacey) ii) Kobayashi (Postlethwaite) or iii) a figment of Kint's imagination.
The whole point of the ending is that it's ambiguous. i) is possible (cigarette lighter; fax digifit of Soze according to the Hungarian - but how did he "know" that that person was Soze??) ii) is also possible (Kobayashi being a name on a coffee cup - and so perhaps not the real name of Postlethwaite's character) or iii) much of what Kint said during his interrogation bears similarities to names written on the wallboard facing him. He may have told people (e.g. the Hungarian) that he was Soze, but was this true? 86.212.31.153 ( talk) 21:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Just a thought - this article states Soze's attorney was called Kobayashi but the revelatory sequence at the end makes it clear that "Kobayashi" was just a name that Kint read on the bottom of Agent Kujan's coffee cup so do we really know what the Pete Postlethwaite character was actually called? Richard Barlow 15:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I gave Keyser's identity its own warning label after the traditional spoiler tag. While Soze's history is a spoiler in and of itself, his true identity is the main plot twist of the story. King Zeal 22:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Might also be a good idea to change the sketch picture under plot revelations since it may be easy to recognize which character in the movie is Keyser Söze. It is under the "revelations" title, but it is however easy to notice without "intention". I don't know how to do this, so if someone would feel inclined to do so, please do Andregulbrandsen 00:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Could've been a little quicker, I wanted to see that movie you asshats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.200.43.230 ( talk) 23:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Note that Wikipedia's spoiler policy has changed since the start of this discussion in 2007, and the current version is at WP:SPOILER: "Spoilers are no different from any other content and should not be deleted solely because they are spoilers." -- McGeddon ( talk) 11:23, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I think the line In the final scenes of the movie, it is revealed that Verbal himself is Keyser Soze needs to be changed since it's POV. There is a strong implication in the film that this is the case, but it's not certain and is open to other interpretations. One of which is that Keyser Soze doesn't actually exist at all - since practically all scenes in the film are Verbal's narration, there's no proof that any of them actually took place. — SteveRwanda 12:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi all -- I'm flagging this article for failing to follow Wikipedia's policies on verifiability and original research. In short, the culture impact, meaning of name, trivia, and media sections all need to be cited to reliable independent sources. -- Tcatts 20:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to the view stated here, there are real "facts" that can be obtained from the movie. For example the opening and closing scenes. The assasination, the interrogation and others. From scrict analysis of this, it is entirely possible to theorise that kobayashi was in fact the master mind and verbal was sent to do his work. In fact there are quotes that allude to this in the movie. Something like, "You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting fingered and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything, it will be to get rid of me.", "He (Keaton) wasn't behind anything. It was the lawyer.", "We were there to buy a man, you simple boy. A witness. I don't know his name. A witness who knew the Devil.", " Keyser Soze - or whatever you want to call him - knows where I am right now. He's got the front burner under' your ass to let me go so he can scoop me up ten minutes later.", "This guy (Verbal) is protected - From up on high by the prince of fucking darkness." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.151.14.101 ( talk • contribs) 11:45, 15 April 2007.
I've given this article an adequate lead that actually discusses all of the major points of the article as per Wikipedia:Lead section. The remainder of the article is going to need major cleanup, however - the article is currently clearly structured to withhold the fact that Verbal is Soze until as far into the article. as possible. This is not good encyclopedia writing. Phil Sandifer 13:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this would be worth mentioning in the "cultural impact" section, but in response to debates surrounding supposed "spoilers" regarding the seventh and final Harry Potter book (just hours to go, nooch), some folks on various forums have started to use the satirical phrase "Snape is Keyser Söze" ( example). Even if it isn't worth mentioning in the article, I thought some of the people who follow this talk page might get a kick out if it. - Ugliness Man 08:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I believe the IPA pronunciation is wrong. Not only is "ö" pronounced with a /ø/ sound rather than /o/ in both Turkish and Hungarian, you can actually hear Hungarian characters in the film pronouncing "Söze" with an /ø/ sound. American English doesn't define the pronunciation of non-English names. JIP | Talk 17:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
So whatever is heard in the movie should be included here as alternates, just as encyclopedias and dictionaries offer. And there should not be any citations needed because it is a reference to a fictional character that appears in a singular movie. 71.116.73.187 ( talk) 23:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The latest change to this article states that Verbal Kint made Keyser Söze up. I don't think this is true. There is at least one source who has heard of Keyser Söze from someone other than Verbal Kint, and that's the police officer who faxes the picture to Kujan. I still believe in the most common interpretation, that Verbal Kint is Keyser Söze. JIP | Talk 19:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've self-reverted here because Arcayne believes that my citation of Le Joueur Généreux constitutes original research [1]. I think it's fine as it is, but I'd like further input so I've called an RFC. -- Tony Sidaway 10:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Its enough for me, too. I wasn't opposed to the usage of the connection, I just wanted it cited within the scope of someone speaking about the film. That has been accomplished. Yay! - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Where was 'Kobayashi' from? The only known source in the film which indicates this is 'Redfoot' who calls him a limey, which means that he is British. But depite Postlewaithe being a Brit, his accent in the film is certainly not. His name suggest he is Japanese and his accent has an Eastern tinge to it - a mix of Oriental and Indian. In the article, someone has stated his nationality as Pakistani - someone is surely having a laugh. There's no proof whatsoever to suggest he is Pakistani. 80.195.166.92 ( talk) 16:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Whilst his accent is odd, I came to the conclusion it was a Northern Irish accent that had been moderated by plenty of time spent in mainland UK. Which would still make him a limey. 21:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.136.185 ( talk)
I believe Kobayashi's accent is actually South African. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.44.197.132 ( talk) 09:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
In the introduction, it's stated that
Söze is an underworld kingpin [...]
I'm not a native speaker, so I searched around a bit, and found everything - but no useful explanation of that word. In most dictionaries, it seems to be just a technical term for some mechanical things. The only helpful definition of the word was in Wiktionary - which is linked heavily indirect: Mark the word "kingpin", search with google, go to Wikipedia, click through on "there is an article on Wiktionary" - this link can break at any node. My suggestion: Explain the word, use another word or link the word (to wiktionary, because Wikipedia won't really help you on this one). Regards, -- 80.136.76.11 ( talk) 06:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
The word Kingpin originally means "a pivot pin that provides a steering joint in a motor vehicle" but is used as "the most important person in an organization" mainly when talking about gangsters. e.g Söze is an underworld kingpin basically means he was the boss or "most important person" in an organisation. Usually the name is used when talking about someone with a drugs empire, like KeyserSöze for example. I hope this helped.
There is that old farytale called "The emperor's new pants". As far as I can remember from my childhood, It's about two merry conmen, who trick an emperor into beliving they can taylor clothes, wich only the smart people can see. They take the emperors money, and present him with non-existent clothery. The emperor -embarrased that he can't see the clothes- poses as if he'd see them, and goes out in public naked, where his folk begins to laugh that the "Emnperor has no pants on" Now, in German "The pants of the Emperor" translate to "Der Kaisers Hose", wich is pronounced almost exactly as "Keyser Söze". Think of it: - Invisibility as by Verbal - Conmen involved - The conned protagonist doesn't see the plot untill the catharsis.
What's your opinion? Can the name be a pun on this story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.84.91 ( talk) 15:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
According to VegJed, Söze means "talks too much" in Turkish...Roger Kints nickname is Verbal because people say he "talks too much." I think this should be evidence that RogerKint was KeyserSöze and not Kobayashi, or anyone else. Also at the very end Kint uses that Golden lighter that Keyser uses at the start.
AND if you listen closely, at the start when Keyser is talking to Keaton, his voice sounds like Kints (Spacey's).
Just thought I'd say that. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinxparkour ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Just thought I'd mention that "Der Kaisers Hose" is grammatically incorrect for a German genetive. It would be "Die Hose des Kaisers", which kind of gets rid of that pun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.28.185 ( talk) 13:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
The swedish movie Small Sussie (Smala Sussie) has a reference to Keyzer Söze. The police man explains that he has gotten a lot of information about criminals, and therefore asks the girl if she knows anything about a Keyzer Söze or Tony Montana. When she says no, he says "no... they are not in any registries."
Maybe this reference should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.204.132 ( talk) 22:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi there. I read this line in the article : "The French word "sosie" (pronounced sozy) means a person's double, or someone who closely resembles another person."
As a native french speaker, I struggle to see any relevance in this statement (in the context of the article). The word "sosie" comes from the name of a character in Plaute's play Amphitryon whose appearance is used by the god Mercury. Same thing in Molière's rewriting of the play. This gives to this word the meaning of "someone having the exact same appearance as someone else". The word has been used long before the movie, so I really can't see any relevance to the statement in the article. I thus allow myself to remove it. -- Hregrin ( talk) 07:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
In the 2010 A Team film, Jessica Biel's character is called Charissa Sosa. Her character is neither an invisible agent, nor is does she pretend to be something she is not. Any idea why she is called that? The film uses Annabelle Smith as a spoken clue to Hannibal Smith at one point in the film so the writer must have been well aware of phonetic links. St3f ( talk) 07:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Other than the pop culture section (which is mostly worthless), and the unreferenced speculation, there is nothing said in this character article that is not already said in the film article. I assert that the character is not notable enough to justify a separate article, and anything useful should be merged into the film article and this article deleted. --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 23:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Meduban ( talk) 21:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
This has come back a few times. Am I missing some relevance of the Warcraft III cheat, or is this a textbook bad pop culture reference? There's been no wider impact to this cheat code existing, reliable sources haven't written about it, and - unlike the usage in the Max Payne and Buffy dialogue - it doesn't tell us anything about Keyser Söze's adoption in pop culture beyond "one Blizzard programmer saw the film and thought it would make a good, secret cheat code". It doesn't even trigger a Söze-like effect in the game! -- McGeddon ( talk) 15:38, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I added a bunch of citations. It wasn't really very difficult, but it was time consuming. The prose isn't really my best work, but it gets the job done. Especially in the "top ten" dump of citations, the sentences are a bit choppy and repetitive. My first draft was even worse in this regard, but I quickly tired of trying to beautify it. If nobody else does, I'll probably get around to rewriting it. However, what I'd rather do is rewrite the first half of this page. For one thing, it's split into two sections for no apparent reason. Looking over the history of the page, it seems like this was originally done to conceal spoilers. The film's plot is awkwardly split between these two sections, alternating between in-universe writing and commentary. I propose we combine the two sections, remove the in-universe writing, and reduce the word count. As it stands, there's ~750 words split between these two sections, which is more than most films get ( WP:FILMPLOT recommends between 400-700 for an entire plot summary).
Oh yeah, I also added a minor "in popular culture" note about a ska band named after the character. I don't care if anyone removes it. I just threw it in for completeness when it came up in my searches. I tried to find better examples, but nobody really wants to talk about the cultural impact of The Usual Suspects/Keyser Soze, even though they invoke the name constantly. Since I couldn't find any discussions, I tagged an assertion of such importance as needing a citation. The alternative was to individually cite multiple examples of these happening, and I really didn't want to make another boring citation dump. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 22:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
After fleshing out the lead a bit and adding some more sources, I think this article might be ready to be nominated for GA. Is there anything major missing? NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 19:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Koustav Halder ( talk · contribs) 17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi there. I'll be reviewing this article to see if it meets the GA Article criteria. -- Koustav
talk to me!
17:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
You could consider a better alternative citation for John List such as this. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
For Instance consider: Spacey met Bryan Singer at a screening of the director's first feature, Public Access, which won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance in 1993. Spacey liked the movie so much that he told Singer he wanted to be in whatever he made next.( ref ). Söze was written with Kevin Spacey in mind,( ref ) as McQuarrie was of the opinion "he was lesser known at the time. I wanted the audience to dismiss him as a minor character.”( ref )
My point is this section needs to be expanded with more relevant information. A quick search threw up this much, detailed analysis should bring up more. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Pass. Good work in responding to various comments.
Does the lede need to be more explicit about the Kint/Söze reveal? There's nothing that says how the film reveals Kint to be Söze, so (for a reader who hasn't read the infobox caption) "Singer has said he believes Kint and Söze are the same person" comes out of nowhere. -- McGeddon ( talk) 17:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Is the problem now the lede or the caption? I think the first paragraph's "Further events in the story make these accounts unreliable, and, in a twist ending, a police sketch identifies Kint's face as Söze." is more than sufficient, the second paragraph's "Singer has said he believes Kint and Söze are the same person." unnecessary, and the caption "Kevin Spacey as Roger "Verbal" Kint, an alias of Keyser Söze" awkward stylistically and potentially inaccurate, albeit not unexpected if one read the main text. I think "alias" is a loaded term, and I think it undisputed that Spacey played Kint. Even if he did play Soze, Soze in that scene is playing Kint, so it's just Spacey as Kint. JesseRafe ( talk) 16:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
The infobox refers to Söze as Turkish, but the movie never clearly says so. Kint says Söze is "Supposed to be Turkish, some say his father is German". That's the only reference to Söze's nationality in the movie - uncertain at best.
Also, the movie doesn't say Söze started his "career" in his "native Turkey", as the article says. Tdunsky ( talk) 15:16, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Keyser (Kaiser) Söze was portrayed by actors of Western origins, not Turkish. The character's background is intentionally mysterious and not explicitly defined in the movie. The name "Keyser" is not of Turkish origin and does not have any meaning in the Turkish language. Obviously being of mixed German and Turkish ancestry. Allo002 ( talk) 20:12, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Keyser Söze has been listed as one of the
Media and drama good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: April 2, 2016. ( Reviewed version). |
This article was nominated for deletion on 12 March 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Keyser Söze. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Keyser Söze at the Reference desk. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
I am not certain this character qualifies as a serial killer. Brutal? Homicidal? Certainly, but those characteristics do not make him a serial killer. There's nothing to suggest that anyone he's killed were due to some psychological compulsion of his. Does anyone oppose removing him from this list?
In the article it mentions only two usages of the phrase, one being satanic the other being a fabrication of another villain, but I have quite frequently seen it used in another sense: To coalesce a story using background objects.
An example of this is in American Dad, where Roger at one point says he "Keyser Soze'd [a] name using [Stan's] coffee cup". Tetris11 ( talk) 11:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
It is also referenced in the pilot episode of "Go On" starring Matthew Perry (airdate: 08 Aug 2012 on NBC). When confronted by the group leader about his loss Perry's character, sports radio talk show host Ryan King, spins a tale about his wife dying from a rare blood disease. She embraces him and acknowledges how brave it was for him to open up and share his feelings with her. He responds by saying, "It wasn't brave." She: "It was." He: "It wasn't... true." She: "Which part?" He: "The whole thing. I made it up. Salamone isn't a disease. It's a restaurant right over there. I Keyser Söze'd you." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.230.130.228 ( talk) 02:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Its not confirmed that Spacey was indeed Soze and there is even some dispute by the actors in the film as to who he is. The director I believe also mentioned that he wasn't neccessarily Soze.
There is one thing the movie is clear about - the entire story is a LIE. Any attempt to try to pull any facts out of it is silly because we know that EVERYTHING we know is Verbal's version of events, and since we pretty sure VERBAL does not exist... it would make sense that neither do ANY facts.
The devil's biggest trick is to make the world think he doesn't exist. This story's biggest trick is to make you think ANY of it actually took place.
-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.230.81.124 ( talk) 00:59, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Soze is either i) Kint (Spacey) ii) Kobayashi (Postlethwaite) or iii) a figment of Kint's imagination.
The whole point of the ending is that it's ambiguous. i) is possible (cigarette lighter; fax digifit of Soze according to the Hungarian - but how did he "know" that that person was Soze??) ii) is also possible (Kobayashi being a name on a coffee cup - and so perhaps not the real name of Postlethwaite's character) or iii) much of what Kint said during his interrogation bears similarities to names written on the wallboard facing him. He may have told people (e.g. the Hungarian) that he was Soze, but was this true? 86.212.31.153 ( talk) 21:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Just a thought - this article states Soze's attorney was called Kobayashi but the revelatory sequence at the end makes it clear that "Kobayashi" was just a name that Kint read on the bottom of Agent Kujan's coffee cup so do we really know what the Pete Postlethwaite character was actually called? Richard Barlow 15:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I gave Keyser's identity its own warning label after the traditional spoiler tag. While Soze's history is a spoiler in and of itself, his true identity is the main plot twist of the story. King Zeal 22:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Might also be a good idea to change the sketch picture under plot revelations since it may be easy to recognize which character in the movie is Keyser Söze. It is under the "revelations" title, but it is however easy to notice without "intention". I don't know how to do this, so if someone would feel inclined to do so, please do Andregulbrandsen 00:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Could've been a little quicker, I wanted to see that movie you asshats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.200.43.230 ( talk) 23:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Note that Wikipedia's spoiler policy has changed since the start of this discussion in 2007, and the current version is at WP:SPOILER: "Spoilers are no different from any other content and should not be deleted solely because they are spoilers." -- McGeddon ( talk) 11:23, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I think the line In the final scenes of the movie, it is revealed that Verbal himself is Keyser Soze needs to be changed since it's POV. There is a strong implication in the film that this is the case, but it's not certain and is open to other interpretations. One of which is that Keyser Soze doesn't actually exist at all - since practically all scenes in the film are Verbal's narration, there's no proof that any of them actually took place. — SteveRwanda 12:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
Hi all -- I'm flagging this article for failing to follow Wikipedia's policies on verifiability and original research. In short, the culture impact, meaning of name, trivia, and media sections all need to be cited to reliable independent sources. -- Tcatts 20:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to the view stated here, there are real "facts" that can be obtained from the movie. For example the opening and closing scenes. The assasination, the interrogation and others. From scrict analysis of this, it is entirely possible to theorise that kobayashi was in fact the master mind and verbal was sent to do his work. In fact there are quotes that allude to this in the movie. Something like, "You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting fingered and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything, it will be to get rid of me.", "He (Keaton) wasn't behind anything. It was the lawyer.", "We were there to buy a man, you simple boy. A witness. I don't know his name. A witness who knew the Devil.", " Keyser Soze - or whatever you want to call him - knows where I am right now. He's got the front burner under' your ass to let me go so he can scoop me up ten minutes later.", "This guy (Verbal) is protected - From up on high by the prince of fucking darkness." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.151.14.101 ( talk • contribs) 11:45, 15 April 2007.
I've given this article an adequate lead that actually discusses all of the major points of the article as per Wikipedia:Lead section. The remainder of the article is going to need major cleanup, however - the article is currently clearly structured to withhold the fact that Verbal is Soze until as far into the article. as possible. This is not good encyclopedia writing. Phil Sandifer 13:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if this would be worth mentioning in the "cultural impact" section, but in response to debates surrounding supposed "spoilers" regarding the seventh and final Harry Potter book (just hours to go, nooch), some folks on various forums have started to use the satirical phrase "Snape is Keyser Söze" ( example). Even if it isn't worth mentioning in the article, I thought some of the people who follow this talk page might get a kick out if it. - Ugliness Man 08:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I believe the IPA pronunciation is wrong. Not only is "ö" pronounced with a /ø/ sound rather than /o/ in both Turkish and Hungarian, you can actually hear Hungarian characters in the film pronouncing "Söze" with an /ø/ sound. American English doesn't define the pronunciation of non-English names. JIP | Talk 17:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
So whatever is heard in the movie should be included here as alternates, just as encyclopedias and dictionaries offer. And there should not be any citations needed because it is a reference to a fictional character that appears in a singular movie. 71.116.73.187 ( talk) 23:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
The latest change to this article states that Verbal Kint made Keyser Söze up. I don't think this is true. There is at least one source who has heard of Keyser Söze from someone other than Verbal Kint, and that's the police officer who faxes the picture to Kujan. I still believe in the most common interpretation, that Verbal Kint is Keyser Söze. JIP | Talk 19:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've self-reverted here because Arcayne believes that my citation of Le Joueur Généreux constitutes original research [1]. I think it's fine as it is, but I'd like further input so I've called an RFC. -- Tony Sidaway 10:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Its enough for me, too. I wasn't opposed to the usage of the connection, I just wanted it cited within the scope of someone speaking about the film. That has been accomplished. Yay! - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Where was 'Kobayashi' from? The only known source in the film which indicates this is 'Redfoot' who calls him a limey, which means that he is British. But depite Postlewaithe being a Brit, his accent in the film is certainly not. His name suggest he is Japanese and his accent has an Eastern tinge to it - a mix of Oriental and Indian. In the article, someone has stated his nationality as Pakistani - someone is surely having a laugh. There's no proof whatsoever to suggest he is Pakistani. 80.195.166.92 ( talk) 16:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Whilst his accent is odd, I came to the conclusion it was a Northern Irish accent that had been moderated by plenty of time spent in mainland UK. Which would still make him a limey. 21:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.136.185 ( talk)
I believe Kobayashi's accent is actually South African. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.44.197.132 ( talk) 09:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
In the introduction, it's stated that
Söze is an underworld kingpin [...]
I'm not a native speaker, so I searched around a bit, and found everything - but no useful explanation of that word. In most dictionaries, it seems to be just a technical term for some mechanical things. The only helpful definition of the word was in Wiktionary - which is linked heavily indirect: Mark the word "kingpin", search with google, go to Wikipedia, click through on "there is an article on Wiktionary" - this link can break at any node. My suggestion: Explain the word, use another word or link the word (to wiktionary, because Wikipedia won't really help you on this one). Regards, -- 80.136.76.11 ( talk) 06:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
The word Kingpin originally means "a pivot pin that provides a steering joint in a motor vehicle" but is used as "the most important person in an organization" mainly when talking about gangsters. e.g Söze is an underworld kingpin basically means he was the boss or "most important person" in an organisation. Usually the name is used when talking about someone with a drugs empire, like KeyserSöze for example. I hope this helped.
There is that old farytale called "The emperor's new pants". As far as I can remember from my childhood, It's about two merry conmen, who trick an emperor into beliving they can taylor clothes, wich only the smart people can see. They take the emperors money, and present him with non-existent clothery. The emperor -embarrased that he can't see the clothes- poses as if he'd see them, and goes out in public naked, where his folk begins to laugh that the "Emnperor has no pants on" Now, in German "The pants of the Emperor" translate to "Der Kaisers Hose", wich is pronounced almost exactly as "Keyser Söze". Think of it: - Invisibility as by Verbal - Conmen involved - The conned protagonist doesn't see the plot untill the catharsis.
What's your opinion? Can the name be a pun on this story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.84.91 ( talk) 15:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
According to VegJed, Söze means "talks too much" in Turkish...Roger Kints nickname is Verbal because people say he "talks too much." I think this should be evidence that RogerKint was KeyserSöze and not Kobayashi, or anyone else. Also at the very end Kint uses that Golden lighter that Keyser uses at the start.
AND if you listen closely, at the start when Keyser is talking to Keaton, his voice sounds like Kints (Spacey's).
Just thought I'd say that. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinxparkour ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Just thought I'd mention that "Der Kaisers Hose" is grammatically incorrect for a German genetive. It would be "Die Hose des Kaisers", which kind of gets rid of that pun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.28.185 ( talk) 13:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
The swedish movie Small Sussie (Smala Sussie) has a reference to Keyzer Söze. The police man explains that he has gotten a lot of information about criminals, and therefore asks the girl if she knows anything about a Keyzer Söze or Tony Montana. When she says no, he says "no... they are not in any registries."
Maybe this reference should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.204.132 ( talk) 22:03, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi there. I read this line in the article : "The French word "sosie" (pronounced sozy) means a person's double, or someone who closely resembles another person."
As a native french speaker, I struggle to see any relevance in this statement (in the context of the article). The word "sosie" comes from the name of a character in Plaute's play Amphitryon whose appearance is used by the god Mercury. Same thing in Molière's rewriting of the play. This gives to this word the meaning of "someone having the exact same appearance as someone else". The word has been used long before the movie, so I really can't see any relevance to the statement in the article. I thus allow myself to remove it. -- Hregrin ( talk) 07:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
In the 2010 A Team film, Jessica Biel's character is called Charissa Sosa. Her character is neither an invisible agent, nor is does she pretend to be something she is not. Any idea why she is called that? The film uses Annabelle Smith as a spoken clue to Hannibal Smith at one point in the film so the writer must have been well aware of phonetic links. St3f ( talk) 07:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Other than the pop culture section (which is mostly worthless), and the unreferenced speculation, there is nothing said in this character article that is not already said in the film article. I assert that the character is not notable enough to justify a separate article, and anything useful should be merged into the film article and this article deleted. --- RepublicanJacobite The'FortyFive' 23:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
Meduban ( talk) 21:47, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
This has come back a few times. Am I missing some relevance of the Warcraft III cheat, or is this a textbook bad pop culture reference? There's been no wider impact to this cheat code existing, reliable sources haven't written about it, and - unlike the usage in the Max Payne and Buffy dialogue - it doesn't tell us anything about Keyser Söze's adoption in pop culture beyond "one Blizzard programmer saw the film and thought it would make a good, secret cheat code". It doesn't even trigger a Söze-like effect in the game! -- McGeddon ( talk) 15:38, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I added a bunch of citations. It wasn't really very difficult, but it was time consuming. The prose isn't really my best work, but it gets the job done. Especially in the "top ten" dump of citations, the sentences are a bit choppy and repetitive. My first draft was even worse in this regard, but I quickly tired of trying to beautify it. If nobody else does, I'll probably get around to rewriting it. However, what I'd rather do is rewrite the first half of this page. For one thing, it's split into two sections for no apparent reason. Looking over the history of the page, it seems like this was originally done to conceal spoilers. The film's plot is awkwardly split between these two sections, alternating between in-universe writing and commentary. I propose we combine the two sections, remove the in-universe writing, and reduce the word count. As it stands, there's ~750 words split between these two sections, which is more than most films get ( WP:FILMPLOT recommends between 400-700 for an entire plot summary).
Oh yeah, I also added a minor "in popular culture" note about a ska band named after the character. I don't care if anyone removes it. I just threw it in for completeness when it came up in my searches. I tried to find better examples, but nobody really wants to talk about the cultural impact of The Usual Suspects/Keyser Soze, even though they invoke the name constantly. Since I couldn't find any discussions, I tagged an assertion of such importance as needing a citation. The alternative was to individually cite multiple examples of these happening, and I really didn't want to make another boring citation dump. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 22:18, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
After fleshing out the lead a bit and adding some more sources, I think this article might be ready to be nominated for GA. Is there anything major missing? NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 19:36, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewer: Koustav Halder ( talk · contribs) 17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi there. I'll be reviewing this article to see if it meets the GA Article criteria. -- Koustav
talk to me!
17:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
You could consider a better alternative citation for John List such as this. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
For Instance consider: Spacey met Bryan Singer at a screening of the director's first feature, Public Access, which won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance in 1993. Spacey liked the movie so much that he told Singer he wanted to be in whatever he made next.( ref ). Söze was written with Kevin Spacey in mind,( ref ) as McQuarrie was of the opinion "he was lesser known at the time. I wanted the audience to dismiss him as a minor character.”( ref )
My point is this section needs to be expanded with more relevant information. A quick search threw up this much, detailed analysis should bring up more. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Pass. Good work in responding to various comments.
Does the lede need to be more explicit about the Kint/Söze reveal? There's nothing that says how the film reveals Kint to be Söze, so (for a reader who hasn't read the infobox caption) "Singer has said he believes Kint and Söze are the same person" comes out of nowhere. -- McGeddon ( talk) 17:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Is the problem now the lede or the caption? I think the first paragraph's "Further events in the story make these accounts unreliable, and, in a twist ending, a police sketch identifies Kint's face as Söze." is more than sufficient, the second paragraph's "Singer has said he believes Kint and Söze are the same person." unnecessary, and the caption "Kevin Spacey as Roger "Verbal" Kint, an alias of Keyser Söze" awkward stylistically and potentially inaccurate, albeit not unexpected if one read the main text. I think "alias" is a loaded term, and I think it undisputed that Spacey played Kint. Even if he did play Soze, Soze in that scene is playing Kint, so it's just Spacey as Kint. JesseRafe ( talk) 16:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
The infobox refers to Söze as Turkish, but the movie never clearly says so. Kint says Söze is "Supposed to be Turkish, some say his father is German". That's the only reference to Söze's nationality in the movie - uncertain at best.
Also, the movie doesn't say Söze started his "career" in his "native Turkey", as the article says. Tdunsky ( talk) 15:16, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
Keyser (Kaiser) Söze was portrayed by actors of Western origins, not Turkish. The character's background is intentionally mysterious and not explicitly defined in the movie. The name "Keyser" is not of Turkish origin and does not have any meaning in the Turkish language. Obviously being of mixed German and Turkish ancestry. Allo002 ( talk) 20:12, 6 April 2024 (UTC)