The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, which is a contentious topic. Please consult the
procedures and edit carefully.
Arbitration Ruling on Race and Intelligence
The article
Kevin MacDonald (evolutionary psychologist), along with other articles relating to the area of conflict (namely, the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed), is currently subject to active arbitration remedies, described in a 2010 Arbitration Committee case where the articulated principles included:
Pillars: Wikipedia articles must be
neutral,
verifiable and must not contain
original research. Those founding principles (the Pillars) are not negotiable and cannot be overruled, even when apparent consensus to do so exists.
Original research: Wikipedia defines "original research" as "facts, allegations, ideas, and stories not already published by reliable sources". In particular, analyses or conclusions not already published in reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy are not appropriate for inclusion in articles.
Correct use of sources: Wikipedia articles should be based on
reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources. Primary sources are permitted if used carefully. All interpretive claims, analyses, or
synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than to
original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
Advocacy: Wikipedia strives towards a
neutral point of view. Accordingly, it is not the appropriate venue for advocacy or for advancing a specific point of view. While coverage of all significant points of view is a necessary part of balancing an article, striving to give exposure to minority viewpoints that are not significantly expressed in reliable secondary sources is not.
Single purpose accounts:
Single purpose accounts are expected to contribute neutrally instead of following their own agenda and, in particular, should take care to avoid creating the impression that their
focus on one topic is non-neutral, which could strongly suggest that their editing is not compatible with the goals of this project.
Decorum: Wikipedia users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as
personal attacks,
incivility,
assumptions of bad faith,
harassment, or
disruptive point-making, is prohibited.
If you are a new editor, or an editor unfamiliar with the situation, please follow the above guidelines. You may also wish to review the full
arbitration case page. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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If there is a consensus among scholarly sources/reliable sources, that support the current lead
Kevin B. MacDonald (born January 24, 1944) is an American anti-semitic conspiracy theorist, white supremacist, and a retired professor of evolutionary psychology at California State University, Long Beach (CSULB).[1][2][3]
then it should stay the way it is, if not, then it should be changed. Right now I see the Russian as well as the German Wikipedia leads are very different from the lede here and I'd note that in general, the entry in the Russian Wikipedia has a much more objectine tone than the one here has, which you can easily check by using Google Translate.
Experts in antisemitism are the right groups to provide views on antisemitism. What the German or Russian Wikipedia articles say is absolutely irrelevant to what is in our article, and "much more objective tone" seems like a personal opinion. Additional sources could include:
Anti-semitism: A History and Psychoanalysis of Contemporary Hatred, Avner Falk, ABC-CLIO, 2008, pp 103-104
David Isador Lieberman "Evolutionary Psychology" in Antisemitism: A Historical Encyclopedia of Prejudice and Persecution, Volume 1 (Richard S. Levy, Dean Phillip Bell eds.), 2008, pp 215-216
Antisemitism: Exploring the Issue, Steven Leonard Jacobs, ABC-CLIO, 2020 p 113
You might realise that there can be no such thing as an academic consensus on what is anti-semitic or racist, anymore than there is an academic consensus on what being a good person entails. It is quite literally unfalsifiable. Unless you think somehow you can falsify whether someone is racist or a moral person, I urge you to publish your data that is sure to send ripples throughout nearly every scientific field.
126.166.149.176 (
talk)
04:37, 14 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Well, if a random person on the internet says there can be no such thing, then that is how it is. Case closed, huh?
We follow the reliable sources. If you have reliable sources backing your claims, bring them. If not, there is no point in discussing. --
Hob Gadling (
talk)
06:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Please discuss here
IP
2001:569:5177:2900:9153:45DB:921A:48A3 is of course welcome to discuss their preferred edits here rather than edit warring. As should be clear from the fact that they've been reverted by three other editors (not to mention the discussions above which hinge on similar issues), consensus appears to be strongly against the changes they wish to make. While it's true that statements by the ADL and SPLC usually need to be attributed, in this case they are far from the only sources making the same claims. In cases such as this one, where there are abundant
reliable sources stating the same thing, the reader is not served by equivocation.
Generalrelative (
talk)
23:34, 1 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The only thing of note for Kevin MacDonald is that he is an antisemitic conspiracy theorist. Without that, there would be no article about him. If you edit the article so as to avoid saying this, the article is not being truthful about him.
It is wrong to describe his work on the subject as scholarly, since he has no training or background in Jewish history or culture. He is writing well outside his field of expertise, and cannot claim to be a scholar in the area.
Bob Gollum (
talk)
19:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, which is a contentious topic. Please consult the
procedures and edit carefully.
Arbitration Ruling on Race and Intelligence
The article
Kevin MacDonald (evolutionary psychologist), along with other articles relating to the area of conflict (namely, the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour, broadly construed), is currently subject to active arbitration remedies, described in a 2010 Arbitration Committee case where the articulated principles included:
Pillars: Wikipedia articles must be
neutral,
verifiable and must not contain
original research. Those founding principles (the Pillars) are not negotiable and cannot be overruled, even when apparent consensus to do so exists.
Original research: Wikipedia defines "original research" as "facts, allegations, ideas, and stories not already published by reliable sources". In particular, analyses or conclusions not already published in reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy are not appropriate for inclusion in articles.
Correct use of sources: Wikipedia articles should be based on
reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources. Primary sources are permitted if used carefully. All interpretive claims, analyses, or
synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than to
original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
Advocacy: Wikipedia strives towards a
neutral point of view. Accordingly, it is not the appropriate venue for advocacy or for advancing a specific point of view. While coverage of all significant points of view is a necessary part of balancing an article, striving to give exposure to minority viewpoints that are not significantly expressed in reliable secondary sources is not.
Single purpose accounts:
Single purpose accounts are expected to contribute neutrally instead of following their own agenda and, in particular, should take care to avoid creating the impression that their
focus on one topic is non-neutral, which could strongly suggest that their editing is not compatible with the goals of this project.
Decorum: Wikipedia users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as
personal attacks,
incivility,
assumptions of bad faith,
harassment, or
disruptive point-making, is prohibited.
If you are a new editor, or an editor unfamiliar with the situation, please follow the above guidelines. You may also wish to review the full
arbitration case page. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject University of Connecticut, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.University of ConnecticutWikipedia:WikiProject University of ConnecticutTemplate:WikiProject University of ConnecticutUniversity of Connecticut articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
This article has been
automatically rated by a
bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the |auto= parameter.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of California on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia articles
If there is a consensus among scholarly sources/reliable sources, that support the current lead
Kevin B. MacDonald (born January 24, 1944) is an American anti-semitic conspiracy theorist, white supremacist, and a retired professor of evolutionary psychology at California State University, Long Beach (CSULB).[1][2][3]
then it should stay the way it is, if not, then it should be changed. Right now I see the Russian as well as the German Wikipedia leads are very different from the lede here and I'd note that in general, the entry in the Russian Wikipedia has a much more objectine tone than the one here has, which you can easily check by using Google Translate.
Experts in antisemitism are the right groups to provide views on antisemitism. What the German or Russian Wikipedia articles say is absolutely irrelevant to what is in our article, and "much more objective tone" seems like a personal opinion. Additional sources could include:
Anti-semitism: A History and Psychoanalysis of Contemporary Hatred, Avner Falk, ABC-CLIO, 2008, pp 103-104
David Isador Lieberman "Evolutionary Psychology" in Antisemitism: A Historical Encyclopedia of Prejudice and Persecution, Volume 1 (Richard S. Levy, Dean Phillip Bell eds.), 2008, pp 215-216
Antisemitism: Exploring the Issue, Steven Leonard Jacobs, ABC-CLIO, 2020 p 113
You might realise that there can be no such thing as an academic consensus on what is anti-semitic or racist, anymore than there is an academic consensus on what being a good person entails. It is quite literally unfalsifiable. Unless you think somehow you can falsify whether someone is racist or a moral person, I urge you to publish your data that is sure to send ripples throughout nearly every scientific field.
126.166.149.176 (
talk)
04:37, 14 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Well, if a random person on the internet says there can be no such thing, then that is how it is. Case closed, huh?
We follow the reliable sources. If you have reliable sources backing your claims, bring them. If not, there is no point in discussing. --
Hob Gadling (
talk)
06:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Please discuss here
IP
2001:569:5177:2900:9153:45DB:921A:48A3 is of course welcome to discuss their preferred edits here rather than edit warring. As should be clear from the fact that they've been reverted by three other editors (not to mention the discussions above which hinge on similar issues), consensus appears to be strongly against the changes they wish to make. While it's true that statements by the ADL and SPLC usually need to be attributed, in this case they are far from the only sources making the same claims. In cases such as this one, where there are abundant
reliable sources stating the same thing, the reader is not served by equivocation.
Generalrelative (
talk)
23:34, 1 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The only thing of note for Kevin MacDonald is that he is an antisemitic conspiracy theorist. Without that, there would be no article about him. If you edit the article so as to avoid saying this, the article is not being truthful about him.
It is wrong to describe his work on the subject as scholarly, since he has no training or background in Jewish history or culture. He is writing well outside his field of expertise, and cannot claim to be a scholar in the area.
Bob Gollum (
talk)
19:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)reply