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In the article: "There is a strong concentration on falconry in the film but the film does not encourage any illegal behaviour with respect to falcons" This is non-factual POV so I called for a reference to back this up (sadly, for one thing no matter how well Billy treats Kes, he doesn't have a licence to keep birds of prey so is technically breaking the law). References have been provided but they were merelkkky more opinion POV, based on interpretations of the film dialogue and situations. A reference should be from a verifiable credible secondary source. WP:Verifiability So I am removing the 'references' and putting back the request for credible references. Magic Pickle 15:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Stoo-an extinct? I think not. Ever heard a Geordie speak (yes I know not a Yorkshire accent but still ...) Hmm.
Candy 19:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I thought that was strange, but I haven't stayed long enough up that way recently so I couldn't be sure. You could change it to something like "is no longer used in Yorkshire" -- SteveCrook 19:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Following is an extract from a posting made to the SHAKSPER message board today. No comment from me. AndyJones 19:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed this sentence just now which was (I assume) sneakily hidden at the bottom of the page.
I took a lot of what was good and reworded it. Added a brief synopsis with spoiler notice (haven't seen the film for about a year so my memories may be wrong). I purposefully left out Glover's highly amusing (or if you went to school in the north of England sadly accurate) reflection of some PE teachers because although wonderful it wouldn't have added anything.
I would like to try to find some references to the falconry issues in the book (both protests and perhaps info about how they trained the falcon for the film).
The cast part should be expanded to include the main cast by character and actor's name (hence Mr Glover should be added here) and exactly where they were born perhaps (the actor whose name I forget playing the encouraging English teacher was a "foreigner" coming from the neighbouring county of lancashire.
I added extra refs inclucing the BFI top 10 which was already in the text. I removed the reference referred to in the above section (Vanity Here?) purely because compared with the other links it is clearly now sub-standard containing no relevent information to support the film except essentially an advertisement for a book.
Leaving it up to others to make some contributions (probably correct typos and formatting as well) ;) and perhaps take up the flame. Candy 23:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What's this complete rubbish about the teachers speaking in Received Pronunciation (RP) does whoever wrote this know what RP is as all the teachers speak in various Yorkshire accents with the exception of the English teacher who speaks with a south Lancastrian accent.
I think this page needs a 'Spoilers' warning. -- Paucolpitts2 15:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Image:Kes DVD cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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I have put a citation needed next to the sentence about how Bradley and Fletcher were both born in Barnsley. There are lots of sources saying that Bradley was but none on Fletcher. http://books.guardian.co.uk/fba2005/story/0,,1657036,00.html He worked at Grimethorpe colliery. Epa101 ( talk) 20:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw this at the age of 9 in Cleckheaton (West Riding) - it had quite an effect on me - I'd never seen people speaking in Yorkshire accent or dialect in a film before, and found it very entertaining. Also much of the dialogue was slightly risque - swearing on TV or films was not common. The phrase "where's me pillocking bike" in the first five minutes was quite shocking, and made us all giggle. Strangely it wasn't really a word we'd ever heard - but used a lot afterwards - it does appear to have been deliberately muddled up in more recent DVD editions.
At the time I didn't realise the differences between the South Yorkshire / West Yorkshire / Lancashire & General North of England accents - and considered the accents to be "Broad Yorkshire". As an adult I realise now that the main differences between South and West Yorkshire speech, are largely in terms of the dialect as opposed to the accents. The dialect is essentially the same - however it was (is) less commonly used in West Yorkshire. It would not have been common to use the amount of dialect as these characters do in school in a West Yorkshire school in 1970 - however it may well have been in South Yorks - where the film is set.
There are some odd bits of dialogue. The first scene itself is fascinating. At one point Billy says "I'm not gonna work down the pit" It's so out of kilter - in real life he'd have said "I'm not gonna work down 't pit" - with the 't being an almost silent glottal stop. If he was speaking "broad" - as he does in most of the film he'd have said "I'm no-an gonna work down 't pit" in fact he might have even said "I'm no-an bahnna work down 't pit". The word "work" as well would probably be compacted similar to "wuk" as prevalent in South Yorks or East Lancashire. In W. Yorks. "work" would only be contracted when "talking broad" - in informal situations (or among old people !)
I think the reality is that there were many actors in this film from all parts of Yorkshire and the North who were experimenting with a new way of communicating. Much as they wanted to deliver natural dialogue, it wasn't really possible - not least because almost of all of them would have been told not to speak "broad" in their work earlier in their careers (even David Bradley).
Whoever said that the teachers all speak with RP - Received Pronunciation is entirely incorrect. Brian Glover had an archetypal South Yorkshire accent and most of the other accents are genuine Northern ones. Colin Welland - although born in Liverpool and spending much of his young life in Lancashire has what I would describe as a very West Yorkshire accent.
It's possible that what is meant is that they use Standard English - although the pronunciation is very definitely Yorkshire/Northern - they do not use dialect. This is generally the practice in West Yorkshire - although most people can still use dialect forms, and will do so in informal situations.
Reight Ahm bahn t' me bed nah - Ahm laiking togger tomor'n !
78.32.193.115 ( talk) 01:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I take your point on the Sheffield accent - there are many variations in accent in Yorkshire, but I'd guess many are so subtle that only natives can tell the difference. As a child I could easily spot a Morley accent by the amount of glottal stops - "I on'y wan'ed a bole a beer din' ah!", and could tell Cleckheaton from Heckmondwike by the word "school" - which rhymes with cool in Heck., but with duel in Cleck.- or perhaps "Skoo-wil" amongst less 'posh' types. Huddersfield people tend to say 'one' in the way you suggest, similarly 'love' rhymes with "of", and "lover" with "hover".
I've always wondered about Yorkshire people who pronounce "curry" to rhyme with "merry", and tend to be the same people who pronounce "poorly" as "pawly" - I'm thinking maybe Batley - which is famed for it's use of " I war agai't ... " and "She war geein' it ..." (I was doing ..., She was doing ...).
Slightly off topic, but I feel that Kes celebrates the Yorkshire accent and dialect in a way that few films do - so please leave this in 78.32.193.115 ( talk) 23:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
I've been unable to find sources which confirm the dialogue has changed on the DVD release and more recent releases of the film. This doesn't seem likely and, as it has been unsourced for at least seven months, I've removed it per WP:V. -- JD554 ( talk) 14:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Re; Citation given for the dubbing of accents in the later release. This isn't really how we use citations (i.e. in parentheses with name of paper and aprox year) but as it's the only one and I'm unfamiliar with the local Media in Yorks I have just commented it out for now in case someone can dig up the necessaries. -- wintonian talk 20:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
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Should this be a redirect from Kes, and rather not the Star Trek Voyager character? Neither topic is all that famous, but we could use with a disambiguation page here. Cheers 2A02:C7D:CA32:CC00:A44D:F01B:5386:E83E ( talk) 10:34, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
I dispute that "Neither topic is all that famous" as mentioned above. The film (& the book) of Kes are both quite famous in th UK if not elsewhere -- SteveCrook ( talk) 13:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Is this section necessary? I'd go ahead and delete it were this not such an important article.
It's interesting to note how social changes have led to the re-classification of films, but that's hardly the subject of the article. It's still fun to remember, though, that any kid could back then get in to an "A" (Adult) classified presentation by approaching a friendly-looking family group in the queue asking, "Would you take me in, please?" (I was there, friends!) Much the same as the modern 12A certification, though kids these days are probably too paranoid about stranger danger. Willemslie ( talk) 01:36, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
(I used to do the same as a youngster in the 1950s, asking a man on his way in if he'd take me in with him. I did it on many occasions and only on two or three occasions did one of them grope me between my legs and fondle me in the darkness. The first time it happened, I was taken by surprise and didn't know what to do about it, so I just sat there and did nothing, which to him signalled that I wanted him to go further with the activity. Actually, the original British Board of Film Censors guideline to cinemas for the 'A' certificate was that a guardian, such as an uncle or parent, who knew the child well and knew what they should and should not be allowed to see, should take them in. But for the sake of ticket sales, cinemas would ignore this and let any adult who wasn't related to the child, take them in to see an 'A' certificate film. David Rayner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidRayner ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 31 January 2019 (UTC) )
I only ever asked family groups to take me in. I was brought up by parents who warned me about that stuff -- lucky kid, me! Willemslie ( talk) 12:43, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, I came to this article looking for more insight and background info on the movie and did not find as much as I thought it deserved, so have taken some time to expand it using resources I could find - including adding a brief summary of the plot to the lead, creating a new section "Background" for some of the material previously in "Production", adding a new section "Commentary" (regarding the film's themes etc.) and expanded "Reception" (by adding quotes from reviews). For the latter I have aimed to include a range of reviews that between them cover the different aspects of the movie and its significance rather than aim for duplication. Hopefully the article is better now and contains enough background to enhance the viewer's understanding of the movie which is fact in quite complex and far reaching in the ground that it covers. Regards Tony Tony 1212 ( talk) 19:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to have the "Original Research" tag at the top of the article? The sections on reception, themes, etc all seem to be pretty well-sourced to third party content. Thoughts?-- Chimino ( talk) 21:40, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
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In the article: "There is a strong concentration on falconry in the film but the film does not encourage any illegal behaviour with respect to falcons" This is non-factual POV so I called for a reference to back this up (sadly, for one thing no matter how well Billy treats Kes, he doesn't have a licence to keep birds of prey so is technically breaking the law). References have been provided but they were merelkkky more opinion POV, based on interpretations of the film dialogue and situations. A reference should be from a verifiable credible secondary source. WP:Verifiability So I am removing the 'references' and putting back the request for credible references. Magic Pickle 15:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Stoo-an extinct? I think not. Ever heard a Geordie speak (yes I know not a Yorkshire accent but still ...) Hmm.
Candy 19:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I thought that was strange, but I haven't stayed long enough up that way recently so I couldn't be sure. You could change it to something like "is no longer used in Yorkshire" -- SteveCrook 19:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Following is an extract from a posting made to the SHAKSPER message board today. No comment from me. AndyJones 19:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed this sentence just now which was (I assume) sneakily hidden at the bottom of the page.
I took a lot of what was good and reworded it. Added a brief synopsis with spoiler notice (haven't seen the film for about a year so my memories may be wrong). I purposefully left out Glover's highly amusing (or if you went to school in the north of England sadly accurate) reflection of some PE teachers because although wonderful it wouldn't have added anything.
I would like to try to find some references to the falconry issues in the book (both protests and perhaps info about how they trained the falcon for the film).
The cast part should be expanded to include the main cast by character and actor's name (hence Mr Glover should be added here) and exactly where they were born perhaps (the actor whose name I forget playing the encouraging English teacher was a "foreigner" coming from the neighbouring county of lancashire.
I added extra refs inclucing the BFI top 10 which was already in the text. I removed the reference referred to in the above section (Vanity Here?) purely because compared with the other links it is clearly now sub-standard containing no relevent information to support the film except essentially an advertisement for a book.
Leaving it up to others to make some contributions (probably correct typos and formatting as well) ;) and perhaps take up the flame. Candy 23:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
What's this complete rubbish about the teachers speaking in Received Pronunciation (RP) does whoever wrote this know what RP is as all the teachers speak in various Yorkshire accents with the exception of the English teacher who speaks with a south Lancastrian accent.
I think this page needs a 'Spoilers' warning. -- Paucolpitts2 15:52, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Image:Kes DVD cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 22:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I have put a citation needed next to the sentence about how Bradley and Fletcher were both born in Barnsley. There are lots of sources saying that Bradley was but none on Fletcher. http://books.guardian.co.uk/fba2005/story/0,,1657036,00.html He worked at Grimethorpe colliery. Epa101 ( talk) 20:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I saw this at the age of 9 in Cleckheaton (West Riding) - it had quite an effect on me - I'd never seen people speaking in Yorkshire accent or dialect in a film before, and found it very entertaining. Also much of the dialogue was slightly risque - swearing on TV or films was not common. The phrase "where's me pillocking bike" in the first five minutes was quite shocking, and made us all giggle. Strangely it wasn't really a word we'd ever heard - but used a lot afterwards - it does appear to have been deliberately muddled up in more recent DVD editions.
At the time I didn't realise the differences between the South Yorkshire / West Yorkshire / Lancashire & General North of England accents - and considered the accents to be "Broad Yorkshire". As an adult I realise now that the main differences between South and West Yorkshire speech, are largely in terms of the dialect as opposed to the accents. The dialect is essentially the same - however it was (is) less commonly used in West Yorkshire. It would not have been common to use the amount of dialect as these characters do in school in a West Yorkshire school in 1970 - however it may well have been in South Yorks - where the film is set.
There are some odd bits of dialogue. The first scene itself is fascinating. At one point Billy says "I'm not gonna work down the pit" It's so out of kilter - in real life he'd have said "I'm not gonna work down 't pit" - with the 't being an almost silent glottal stop. If he was speaking "broad" - as he does in most of the film he'd have said "I'm no-an gonna work down 't pit" in fact he might have even said "I'm no-an bahnna work down 't pit". The word "work" as well would probably be compacted similar to "wuk" as prevalent in South Yorks or East Lancashire. In W. Yorks. "work" would only be contracted when "talking broad" - in informal situations (or among old people !)
I think the reality is that there were many actors in this film from all parts of Yorkshire and the North who were experimenting with a new way of communicating. Much as they wanted to deliver natural dialogue, it wasn't really possible - not least because almost of all of them would have been told not to speak "broad" in their work earlier in their careers (even David Bradley).
Whoever said that the teachers all speak with RP - Received Pronunciation is entirely incorrect. Brian Glover had an archetypal South Yorkshire accent and most of the other accents are genuine Northern ones. Colin Welland - although born in Liverpool and spending much of his young life in Lancashire has what I would describe as a very West Yorkshire accent.
It's possible that what is meant is that they use Standard English - although the pronunciation is very definitely Yorkshire/Northern - they do not use dialect. This is generally the practice in West Yorkshire - although most people can still use dialect forms, and will do so in informal situations.
Reight Ahm bahn t' me bed nah - Ahm laiking togger tomor'n !
78.32.193.115 ( talk) 01:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I take your point on the Sheffield accent - there are many variations in accent in Yorkshire, but I'd guess many are so subtle that only natives can tell the difference. As a child I could easily spot a Morley accent by the amount of glottal stops - "I on'y wan'ed a bole a beer din' ah!", and could tell Cleckheaton from Heckmondwike by the word "school" - which rhymes with cool in Heck., but with duel in Cleck.- or perhaps "Skoo-wil" amongst less 'posh' types. Huddersfield people tend to say 'one' in the way you suggest, similarly 'love' rhymes with "of", and "lover" with "hover".
I've always wondered about Yorkshire people who pronounce "curry" to rhyme with "merry", and tend to be the same people who pronounce "poorly" as "pawly" - I'm thinking maybe Batley - which is famed for it's use of " I war agai't ... " and "She war geein' it ..." (I was doing ..., She was doing ...).
Slightly off topic, but I feel that Kes celebrates the Yorkshire accent and dialect in a way that few films do - so please leave this in 78.32.193.115 ( talk) 23:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
I've been unable to find sources which confirm the dialogue has changed on the DVD release and more recent releases of the film. This doesn't seem likely and, as it has been unsourced for at least seven months, I've removed it per WP:V. -- JD554 ( talk) 14:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Re; Citation given for the dubbing of accents in the later release. This isn't really how we use citations (i.e. in parentheses with name of paper and aprox year) but as it's the only one and I'm unfamiliar with the local Media in Yorks I have just commented it out for now in case someone can dig up the necessaries. -- wintonian talk 20:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
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Should this be a redirect from Kes, and rather not the Star Trek Voyager character? Neither topic is all that famous, but we could use with a disambiguation page here. Cheers 2A02:C7D:CA32:CC00:A44D:F01B:5386:E83E ( talk) 10:34, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
I dispute that "Neither topic is all that famous" as mentioned above. The film (& the book) of Kes are both quite famous in th UK if not elsewhere -- SteveCrook ( talk) 13:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Is this section necessary? I'd go ahead and delete it were this not such an important article.
It's interesting to note how social changes have led to the re-classification of films, but that's hardly the subject of the article. It's still fun to remember, though, that any kid could back then get in to an "A" (Adult) classified presentation by approaching a friendly-looking family group in the queue asking, "Would you take me in, please?" (I was there, friends!) Much the same as the modern 12A certification, though kids these days are probably too paranoid about stranger danger. Willemslie ( talk) 01:36, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
(I used to do the same as a youngster in the 1950s, asking a man on his way in if he'd take me in with him. I did it on many occasions and only on two or three occasions did one of them grope me between my legs and fondle me in the darkness. The first time it happened, I was taken by surprise and didn't know what to do about it, so I just sat there and did nothing, which to him signalled that I wanted him to go further with the activity. Actually, the original British Board of Film Censors guideline to cinemas for the 'A' certificate was that a guardian, such as an uncle or parent, who knew the child well and knew what they should and should not be allowed to see, should take them in. But for the sake of ticket sales, cinemas would ignore this and let any adult who wasn't related to the child, take them in to see an 'A' certificate film. David Rayner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidRayner ( talk • contribs) 16:32, 31 January 2019 (UTC) )
I only ever asked family groups to take me in. I was brought up by parents who warned me about that stuff -- lucky kid, me! Willemslie ( talk) 12:43, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, I came to this article looking for more insight and background info on the movie and did not find as much as I thought it deserved, so have taken some time to expand it using resources I could find - including adding a brief summary of the plot to the lead, creating a new section "Background" for some of the material previously in "Production", adding a new section "Commentary" (regarding the film's themes etc.) and expanded "Reception" (by adding quotes from reviews). For the latter I have aimed to include a range of reviews that between them cover the different aspects of the movie and its significance rather than aim for duplication. Hopefully the article is better now and contains enough background to enhance the viewer's understanding of the movie which is fact in quite complex and far reaching in the ground that it covers. Regards Tony Tony 1212 ( talk) 19:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to have the "Original Research" tag at the top of the article? The sections on reception, themes, etc all seem to be pretty well-sourced to third party content. Thoughts?-- Chimino ( talk) 21:40, 23 January 2022 (UTC)