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The term "bro" is linked to a disambiguation page for the term, and none of the links there seem to fit in this context. Does anyone know what it's supposed to mean here?
'Bro Jud' was John Presmont's Keristan name. All Kerista members received theatrical names at the time they joined, usually from a ouija-like 'alphabet board'. The Keristan names were usually two words, the main word usually three letters. Bro is of course short for brother. I believe Jud's name originated from the old Keristan Tribe from the 60's. In the 50's in New York, John Presmont had been nicknamed 'King John', for his demeanor at bohemian gatherings & swinging parties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.40.145.158 ( talk) 02:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Objections about content should be in Talk, not the main page. Thanks.
The Keristans did practice group marriage.
The science-fiction novelist Robert A. Heinlein mentioned Kerista in a letter to his agent Lurton Blassingame regarding popular reaction to his novel Stranger in a Strange Land. Heinlein told Blassingame that Kerista had actually appropriated several terms from Stranger in a Strange Land in the letter I read; and expressed his belief that the polyamory and some other characteristics of Kerista social norms came from that novel.
I intend to refer to the letter (contained in Grumbles_from_the_Grave, Virginia Heinlein, ed). If someone can direct me to a less thoroughly edited collection of Heinlein's work, I'd appreciate it. Science fiction writer Frederik Pohl, a friend and correspondent of Heinlein's, complained that Mrs. Heinlein had a heavy hand in editing Heinlein's letters, which may conceal some of Heinlein's thoughts on Kerista.
I solicit any comments from other editors before posting this change, pro, con or otherwise. loupgarous ( talk) 10:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi there,
Can anyone help me find the 2 part article by Mitch Slomiak entitled "The Darker Side of Community" I'm hearing it was originally published in a journal but I don't know which one. Ideally, I'd love if anyone can send me the PDF but any help would be greatly appreciated! It was in Loving More Spring and Summer '96
Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbleDeeDo ( talk • contribs) 05:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
a link has been added to Slomaik's articles from www.kerista.com. kip 3/23/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 ( talk) 02:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
It is misleading and sensational, as his connection to Kerista was only by blood. He never espoused or in any way participated in Kerista. - kip — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 ( talk) 02:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
An important article, therefore deserving of better work.
Someone asked me how many resident members Kerista had at its peak. While I had a guess, I thought this article might improve accuracy. I am certain that at one time the tribe was broken up into clades with separate residences on their block; I recall three. Anyway, these were called (in typical K-speak) Best Friend Identity Clusters or B-FICs. Neither version of the term appears in the WP article. This broadly hints that there are other big problems as well.
The article could certainly use some delicate work with a mallet. For example: its members being exclusively heterosexual in a city well known for its large and influential LGBT community. That makes it sound as though Kerista was a walled fortress under siege by the barbaric Homosexuals, accessible only at great personal peril.
And unless that statement is 100% overreach, it raises an interesting question. Namely: how is it that Kerista could park itself in THE gay mecca for 20 years, yet have ONLY strict heterosexual (Kinsey 0, I'm guessing) membership? Did they actively avoid interacting with the surrounding LGBT community? Did they decline membership to anyone thought to be non-straight? Were they simply so uncool that no gay person would WANT to join?
The History section could be broken out into something actually resembling a timeline, rather than a big gray block.
Speaking of blocks, the Commune was quite a sprawl, and definitely deserves to have described all the stuff that was happening there at its heyday, not the least Abacus Inc. which at one time offered training classes, Apple service and maintenance, consulted for networking and for the (then new) boom in desktop publishing – particularly the powerful but buggy and crash-prone "PageMaker-LaserWriter-Macintosh 512K system" – and an agency for computer-skilled temporary employees. There were other enterprises; Utopian Technologies rented computers from the Frederick Street storefront.
Speaking of Abacus, no reference is made to Free Love and Selling Macs (2002). FWIW, the article says "At its height, Abacus … employed 125 people"; again, this inclines me to re-check every claim made in the WP article.
Get rid of trivia, or make it relevant. Kerista adopted singer Joan Jett as the "Matron Saint" of their community. Where's the citation? Was Jett ever aware of this "adoption"? (If so, when?) or would "claimed" perhaps be a better word?
While "Gestalt-O-Rama" is mentioned (once), it's never explained. Neither is the sleeping schedule; it's underlying philosophy should be discussed, if not its use in practice. And there was some odd spirit board thing they had, each person holding strings attached to a central planchette, that they used to seek advice from their group mind or something like that.
Some mention should be made that Kerista was at one point in time actively recruiting men, their young women in the "seduction squad" going to parties and enticing candidates with visions of limitless sexual variety… IF they got a vasectomy and joined the commune. While not so creepy as
flirty fishing, the parallel is certainly there and ought to be addressed.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
15:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Though it's pleasant to see the work that has been accomplished here, I've a couple of cavils.
But, in general, the cleanup is a strong step toward improvement, and I am glad to see it.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
08:10, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
The FDA approved the first commercial test to detect HIV-antibodies in March 1985, Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. With rampant rumors in the SF gay community of a debilitating 'gay-disease', and the widely-publicized death of Rock Hudson from AIDS-related illness in October 1985, Keristans began to discuss the need for STD testing as commune policy. Another important factor was a male member who joined the Purple Submarine who had experiences with an at-risk partner in his past. I was not tested for anything before joining Kerista in the summer of 1984. However, after the test became available in SF clinics, all Keristans were tested, and all prospective members were required to pass an HIV test before joining, beginning in 1986. I can find no published reference to this policy. Nonetheless, in SF in the later 80's - hysteria and fear about HIV/AIDS was a daily reality. -kip
The source and terms I use are from Wikipedia: Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. The page clearly says the FDA approved 'commercial availability' of the HIV/AIDS test in 1985. Rajneeshpurum in Oregon had 6,000 people tested by September 1985. [1] The CDC reports 79,100 people were tested in 874 centers in the US by December 1985. [2] In March 1986, federal health officials made public recommendation for 'high-risk groups', including heterosexuals with multiple partners, to get the blood test. [3] Also, I polled the ex-Keristans and released an 'HIV/AIDS Test' statement on kerista.com. The HIV/AIDS Test requirement started in Fall 1986, and all Keristan adults were tested in SF clinics. This Keristan HIV/AIDS test requirement before sex on a sleeping schedule is common knowledge in our social circle and with our polyamory cousins today. It reminds me of the discussion about 'seduction squads' making Keristans look sensationally promiscuous. Keristans were fidelitous, mainly heterosexual, and more conservative prudes than not. To suggest Keristans slept around, or were liberal or ill-considered with sexuality is not accurate. The claim that "by the time it (AIDS/HIV Test) existed, Kerista was circling the drain." is not accurate. -kip Brissed ( talk) 19:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
References
I've flagged this for Essayism, rather than mere Refimprove.
Since the beginning of 2018 (mid-January), Kerista (with its Talk page) has become the target of "carpet-bombing" edits by a pair of WP users, signed only with ISPs.
The latter has been used ONLY to rework this topic, in a total of four sessions since 30 Sep 2017. It is a single-purpose account.
The former was lightly used since its 2012 origin, with a total 36 edits through 2016. After a hiatus, it was reactivated mid-August 2017, and has since made exactly one non-Kerista edit. It has become a single-purpose account.
It's an easy guess that both accounts belong to one person, so creeps up toward sock-puppetry.
The article is now stuffed full of unsupported trivia and pointless folksiness, for instance Jud Presmont doddering around his "modest Victorian." As well, it has been sanitized, such as removing the claim made in the Wired article that
Reference to this is buried at the end, plaintively calling it a "disputed account" yet offering no hints as to any disputer.
I might eventually weed through the changes made and determine what needs to be cut outright.
The blockquotes buried in References will have to go. Anyone who wants to preserve them should at least learn about Footnotes. Even at that, there's much too much "borrowed" from Cummings.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:50, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Fortunately, history will show only edits of my own words, gentle-weeb. I sanitized no words of others. I did not remove your 'seduction squad' compromise statement, at least intentionally. However, I dispute that any Keristan broke fidelity to increase membership. I request any ex-Keristan to confess and confirm sleeping with a non-Keristan to bring in new members.
I dispute carpet-bomb advocacy, sockpuppetry, or attempting to disguise my identity. I removed the offensive doddering and the more trivial descriptions. I found the Saint Joan citation in SPIN - you requested. Joan Jett was informed and happy for her sainthood.
-kip Brissed ( talk) 21:53, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
This article is in the category "Intentional Communities in New York (state)" because it was founded there in 1956. But the article says that from 1971 to its end in 1991 it was based in San Francisco, so it also belongs in the category "Intentional Communities in California". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.20.113 ( talk) 22:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Basic information (which anyone reading this article might expect to find here) to add to this article, in order to make it more properly encyclopedic: the etymology/origin of the word "Kerista." 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 02:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kerista article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph of Kerista be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
The term "bro" is linked to a disambiguation page for the term, and none of the links there seem to fit in this context. Does anyone know what it's supposed to mean here?
'Bro Jud' was John Presmont's Keristan name. All Kerista members received theatrical names at the time they joined, usually from a ouija-like 'alphabet board'. The Keristan names were usually two words, the main word usually three letters. Bro is of course short for brother. I believe Jud's name originated from the old Keristan Tribe from the 60's. In the 50's in New York, John Presmont had been nicknamed 'King John', for his demeanor at bohemian gatherings & swinging parties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 133.40.145.158 ( talk) 02:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Objections about content should be in Talk, not the main page. Thanks.
The Keristans did practice group marriage.
The science-fiction novelist Robert A. Heinlein mentioned Kerista in a letter to his agent Lurton Blassingame regarding popular reaction to his novel Stranger in a Strange Land. Heinlein told Blassingame that Kerista had actually appropriated several terms from Stranger in a Strange Land in the letter I read; and expressed his belief that the polyamory and some other characteristics of Kerista social norms came from that novel.
I intend to refer to the letter (contained in Grumbles_from_the_Grave, Virginia Heinlein, ed). If someone can direct me to a less thoroughly edited collection of Heinlein's work, I'd appreciate it. Science fiction writer Frederik Pohl, a friend and correspondent of Heinlein's, complained that Mrs. Heinlein had a heavy hand in editing Heinlein's letters, which may conceal some of Heinlein's thoughts on Kerista.
I solicit any comments from other editors before posting this change, pro, con or otherwise. loupgarous ( talk) 10:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi there,
Can anyone help me find the 2 part article by Mitch Slomiak entitled "The Darker Side of Community" I'm hearing it was originally published in a journal but I don't know which one. Ideally, I'd love if anyone can send me the PDF but any help would be greatly appreciated! It was in Loving More Spring and Summer '96
Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AbleDeeDo ( talk • contribs) 05:45, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
a link has been added to Slomaik's articles from www.kerista.com. kip 3/23/2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 ( talk) 02:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
It is misleading and sensational, as his connection to Kerista was only by blood. He never espoused or in any way participated in Kerista. - kip — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.171.73.73 ( talk) 02:14, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
An important article, therefore deserving of better work.
Someone asked me how many resident members Kerista had at its peak. While I had a guess, I thought this article might improve accuracy. I am certain that at one time the tribe was broken up into clades with separate residences on their block; I recall three. Anyway, these were called (in typical K-speak) Best Friend Identity Clusters or B-FICs. Neither version of the term appears in the WP article. This broadly hints that there are other big problems as well.
The article could certainly use some delicate work with a mallet. For example: its members being exclusively heterosexual in a city well known for its large and influential LGBT community. That makes it sound as though Kerista was a walled fortress under siege by the barbaric Homosexuals, accessible only at great personal peril.
And unless that statement is 100% overreach, it raises an interesting question. Namely: how is it that Kerista could park itself in THE gay mecca for 20 years, yet have ONLY strict heterosexual (Kinsey 0, I'm guessing) membership? Did they actively avoid interacting with the surrounding LGBT community? Did they decline membership to anyone thought to be non-straight? Were they simply so uncool that no gay person would WANT to join?
The History section could be broken out into something actually resembling a timeline, rather than a big gray block.
Speaking of blocks, the Commune was quite a sprawl, and definitely deserves to have described all the stuff that was happening there at its heyday, not the least Abacus Inc. which at one time offered training classes, Apple service and maintenance, consulted for networking and for the (then new) boom in desktop publishing – particularly the powerful but buggy and crash-prone "PageMaker-LaserWriter-Macintosh 512K system" – and an agency for computer-skilled temporary employees. There were other enterprises; Utopian Technologies rented computers from the Frederick Street storefront.
Speaking of Abacus, no reference is made to Free Love and Selling Macs (2002). FWIW, the article says "At its height, Abacus … employed 125 people"; again, this inclines me to re-check every claim made in the WP article.
Get rid of trivia, or make it relevant. Kerista adopted singer Joan Jett as the "Matron Saint" of their community. Where's the citation? Was Jett ever aware of this "adoption"? (If so, when?) or would "claimed" perhaps be a better word?
While "Gestalt-O-Rama" is mentioned (once), it's never explained. Neither is the sleeping schedule; it's underlying philosophy should be discussed, if not its use in practice. And there was some odd spirit board thing they had, each person holding strings attached to a central planchette, that they used to seek advice from their group mind or something like that.
Some mention should be made that Kerista was at one point in time actively recruiting men, their young women in the "seduction squad" going to parties and enticing candidates with visions of limitless sexual variety… IF they got a vasectomy and joined the commune. While not so creepy as
flirty fishing, the parallel is certainly there and ought to be addressed.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
15:12, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
Though it's pleasant to see the work that has been accomplished here, I've a couple of cavils.
But, in general, the cleanup is a strong step toward improvement, and I am glad to see it.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
08:10, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
The FDA approved the first commercial test to detect HIV-antibodies in March 1985, Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. With rampant rumors in the SF gay community of a debilitating 'gay-disease', and the widely-publicized death of Rock Hudson from AIDS-related illness in October 1985, Keristans began to discuss the need for STD testing as commune policy. Another important factor was a male member who joined the Purple Submarine who had experiences with an at-risk partner in his past. I was not tested for anything before joining Kerista in the summer of 1984. However, after the test became available in SF clinics, all Keristans were tested, and all prospective members were required to pass an HIV test before joining, beginning in 1986. I can find no published reference to this policy. Nonetheless, in SF in the later 80's - hysteria and fear about HIV/AIDS was a daily reality. -kip
The source and terms I use are from Wikipedia: Timeline_of_HIV/AIDS. The page clearly says the FDA approved 'commercial availability' of the HIV/AIDS test in 1985. Rajneeshpurum in Oregon had 6,000 people tested by September 1985. [1] The CDC reports 79,100 people were tested in 874 centers in the US by December 1985. [2] In March 1986, federal health officials made public recommendation for 'high-risk groups', including heterosexuals with multiple partners, to get the blood test. [3] Also, I polled the ex-Keristans and released an 'HIV/AIDS Test' statement on kerista.com. The HIV/AIDS Test requirement started in Fall 1986, and all Keristan adults were tested in SF clinics. This Keristan HIV/AIDS test requirement before sex on a sleeping schedule is common knowledge in our social circle and with our polyamory cousins today. It reminds me of the discussion about 'seduction squads' making Keristans look sensationally promiscuous. Keristans were fidelitous, mainly heterosexual, and more conservative prudes than not. To suggest Keristans slept around, or were liberal or ill-considered with sexuality is not accurate. The claim that "by the time it (AIDS/HIV Test) existed, Kerista was circling the drain." is not accurate. -kip Brissed ( talk) 19:40, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
References
I've flagged this for Essayism, rather than mere Refimprove.
Since the beginning of 2018 (mid-January), Kerista (with its Talk page) has become the target of "carpet-bombing" edits by a pair of WP users, signed only with ISPs.
The latter has been used ONLY to rework this topic, in a total of four sessions since 30 Sep 2017. It is a single-purpose account.
The former was lightly used since its 2012 origin, with a total 36 edits through 2016. After a hiatus, it was reactivated mid-August 2017, and has since made exactly one non-Kerista edit. It has become a single-purpose account.
It's an easy guess that both accounts belong to one person, so creeps up toward sock-puppetry.
The article is now stuffed full of unsupported trivia and pointless folksiness, for instance Jud Presmont doddering around his "modest Victorian." As well, it has been sanitized, such as removing the claim made in the Wired article that
Reference to this is buried at the end, plaintively calling it a "disputed account" yet offering no hints as to any disputer.
I might eventually weed through the changes made and determine what needs to be cut outright.
The blockquotes buried in References will have to go. Anyone who wants to preserve them should at least learn about Footnotes. Even at that, there's much too much "borrowed" from Cummings.
Weeb Dingle (
talk)
16:50, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
Fortunately, history will show only edits of my own words, gentle-weeb. I sanitized no words of others. I did not remove your 'seduction squad' compromise statement, at least intentionally. However, I dispute that any Keristan broke fidelity to increase membership. I request any ex-Keristan to confess and confirm sleeping with a non-Keristan to bring in new members.
I dispute carpet-bomb advocacy, sockpuppetry, or attempting to disguise my identity. I removed the offensive doddering and the more trivial descriptions. I found the Saint Joan citation in SPIN - you requested. Joan Jett was informed and happy for her sainthood.
-kip Brissed ( talk) 21:53, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
This article is in the category "Intentional Communities in New York (state)" because it was founded there in 1956. But the article says that from 1971 to its end in 1991 it was based in San Francisco, so it also belongs in the category "Intentional Communities in California". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.53.20.113 ( talk) 22:56, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Basic information (which anyone reading this article might expect to find here) to add to this article, in order to make it more properly encyclopedic: the etymology/origin of the word "Kerista." 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 02:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)