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Where did the timeline come from? Let's hope it is not a copyvio. -- Tagishsimon
No it is all my own work over many years Szczels 16:17, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Should the dates have those link things put round them? Done Szczels Chaikney 21:58, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Photos all taken by Chloe Bowles 2004
Facts needed:
Answer from Cllr Andrew Sawdon: "the skate-board went in in approximately 1978, on some derlict tennis courts, at the same time at the skate-board park, at stockwell road in brixton. I did radio interviews on it at the time, where the angle put to me was "isnt this a waste of money, isnt it, skakeboarding is just a short term fad surely!"
Comment from Cllr Andrew Sawdon: "This idea of "designatated open space' is misunderstood (I dont think that there is any such thing, as "designating" somewhere as public opens space, except in terms of town planning which did not come into to 1947). It was common land (which meant that people had the right to graze animals on it etc) it was enclosed by act of parliament, which turned it into a park (one of the earliest municipal parks) with then the then chancellor the exchequer disraeli, offering public money for to match privately raised funds for laying out. Details of official opening etc can be found in the Marie Draper book." Confusion here surely - Kennington Park east was housing before WW2 after which the 'slums' were cleared. The common land referes to the historic western landscaped part of the park with its matured trees. Szczels 21:14, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
NOTES ON THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION ON KENNINGTON PARK
A list of those executed is now online. See: [1]
According to her there is still no authoritative overview of Chartism. This is partly due to the fact that Chartism was a federation of small groups widely spread and partly the above mentioned bias against working class self activity.
The tired old case for Chartism as a failure can be found in "Failed Chartist Demonstration in London' History Today Vol 48 issue 4 pp 34/35 1998
J.M. Neeson Commoners: common right, enclosure and social change in England 1700 - 1820 Cambridge 1993 The enclosures signified a profound change in human relations to their means of subsistence.
Please do add in comments...
Back to Kennington_Park timeline
The metaphor of a 'level playing field' as relating to the idea of the commons, has come to me from Tony Moody who runs the local cricket project, which uses Catchy Shubby cricket as a selector mechanism that creates a level playing field. Catchy Shubby Cricket was invented in Jamaica but is resisted by the English Cricket establishment who do not want interference with their selection proceedures.
The idea that the flood silt would re-level the playing fields every season makes a lot of sense in relation to the early references to games being played on the common. There is even some speculation that cricket may have been invented on the Kennington common green! (The earliest image of cricket on a badge seems to be an image of the common).
Szczels 14:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
The Local Equadorian community tried to get permissions to play volleyball again in 2005. They faced opposition local and institutional. We sent more letters of support but Lambeth Council would only make impractical offers. update Szczels The same local people are also against so-called organised football teams playing in the park. (Football stopped by park rangers see Photo and report March 2006)
The reason this is relevant to Wikipedia is because of the repression/enclosure of the commons.
Large scale marches and protests do not start in the park any more. See what may have been the last one here last march This may be due to the large public liability insurance that Lambeth Council demand as much as it is local opposition. But its hard to know because no one is open about these things... We did at least have Benson's funfair in the park over the last ten days. Szczels 15:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know where to start with this. It needs to turn into an encyclopedia article - its too chatty and too much irrelevent detail. We don't need the comments on the date of the release of Nelson Mandela or local friends group members referred to (unless they've done something that is really memorable - NB I live 10 mins walk away and I haven't heard of any of these people). The key points need picking out - they are being lost in lots of noise. A couple of random thoughts - was the Rastafarian temple originally one of the squatted St Agnes Place houses? I think that was to do with a park extension that didn't happen. The patch of grass on the side of Camberwell New Road is separate I believe - I think it's called Kennington Open Space. Secret london 00:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC) (The park extension is about to happen and you are right about the Camberwell New Road green. Szczels (The article has been cleaned up since this comment!) Szczels 12:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok I can agree about some of the chat Secret London but the 'relevance' of the detail is up to me, as I am living next to the park and obsessed with it, to judge. I have removed some of the contextual data which could also be seen as irrelevant, such as the date of Mandela's release. The fact you have never heard of people is exactly why I have put so much time into researching this place, much of its history was unmarked and largely unappreciated locally. I think that the style of a wikipedia entry has to get a balance between being live history, which can be noisy and in-the-process- of-interpetation and the a succinct and dry summary of key information. That balance is what I'm aiming at. Also it was criticised for being a timeline not being the correct format but why not? It allows a lot of informaton and space for people to make their own interpretations. The point about KP is that is has a hidden history (ie secret london!) and its histories are open to interpretation. This interpretation is crucial to the way the park is viewed, funded and used today! We need to keep Wikipedia diverse and open and not let it get to rigidly stylised Szczels 14:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I've made a few minor edits - I've left 'gymbasium' - should this be gymnasium?
Two other points: my understanding is that a large burial pit from the ?1666? plague is at the intersection of the roads to the west of St Marks: true? worth adding?
And, secondly, the ?old chesnut? about 'secret' tunnels under the common - leading where? for what purpose? kept secret by/for whom?
John Courtneidge
Yes gymnasium! I know nothing of the burial pit or it being on the common. What is your source of information? Secret tunnels again I know nothing but there may well be tunnels associated with the early Underground e.g. ventilation etc. or going off cellars of previously adjacent buildings... Maybe the London Underground could be persuaded to divulge information - but I doubt it in the current climate of fear. Szczels 13:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I was shocked to see the extent of the trenches over the south field in Rob Patemans excellent pamphlet. Somehow the extent of the horror of it got through to me. And of course there were many more bodies left than I had estimated from my original research in Lambeth Archives in 1996/7. See links on main page for text.
Also the story related on [4] Perhaps I should put this photo on the main page? Szczels 12:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
There was a Theatre event in the east park extension in the Eighties one November 5th. There were giant effigies of Thatcher and ? and a bonfire It was really spectacular especially for people in the Brandon towers. Anyone have any date and details? The theatre company? etc. Szczels 12:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
"Chartism was the first national working class organisation and the rally on 10 April 1848 the high point of the Chartist movement."
I'd dispute that. The movement had been in decline for years by 1848. The Kennington Common rally was more a last hurrah than a high point. Legion 22:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I take your point Legion. I think 'high point' can be taken in different ways. Perhaps I should say the event was the most famous challenge of Chartism or something... to be more precise. What do you think is the most authoritative account on Chartism? Szczels 12:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Now, I'm afraid that when it comes to that I'm less help. I'm afriad my knowldge of Chartism is only at A-level.... level, so I'm no expert on Chartist historiography. I could randomly shout out names I've come across, but I doubt that would be much help. : /
The rally at Kennington was one of the most famous events in the movement's history I'd say. But not necessarily the most famous. I think the entry itself could be trimmed down a bit: the description of Chartism could be covered simply by a link to the Wiki article on Chartism itself.
Sorry if I come off as a bit impolite. It's late, and I'm never particularly good at choosing my words at the best of times. ^^; Legion 23:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The original park railings of the enclosure where removed in the WW1. But when were they replaced and with what money? By my memory I would say it was in the mid to late Eighties... Szczels ( talk) 13:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
It is a pity no-one wants to keep this updated since I left the area... The Children's playground was finished and opened. When? I'm sure other notable events have taken place... Szczels ( talk) 09:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
"Kennington Park is often erroneously cited as the birthplace of English-born backyard wrestler "Dynamite Dragon" Gareth-Davis King. While his official ring introduction does have him hailing from "The Mean Streets of Kennington Park", he actually lived in nearby DeLaune Street, and has often returned to his local neighbourhood to help promote independent backyard wrestling promotions and encourage cross promotion between English promtions, and his own West Australian based Modern Athletic Wrestling League. He often cites the area around Kennington Park as a big influence on him as a child." Needs dates and to be put in timeline if he actually existed! Szczels ( talk) 15:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | Kennington Park received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
Where did the timeline come from? Let's hope it is not a copyvio. -- Tagishsimon
No it is all my own work over many years Szczels 16:17, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Should the dates have those link things put round them? Done Szczels Chaikney 21:58, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Photos all taken by Chloe Bowles 2004
Facts needed:
Answer from Cllr Andrew Sawdon: "the skate-board went in in approximately 1978, on some derlict tennis courts, at the same time at the skate-board park, at stockwell road in brixton. I did radio interviews on it at the time, where the angle put to me was "isnt this a waste of money, isnt it, skakeboarding is just a short term fad surely!"
Comment from Cllr Andrew Sawdon: "This idea of "designatated open space' is misunderstood (I dont think that there is any such thing, as "designating" somewhere as public opens space, except in terms of town planning which did not come into to 1947). It was common land (which meant that people had the right to graze animals on it etc) it was enclosed by act of parliament, which turned it into a park (one of the earliest municipal parks) with then the then chancellor the exchequer disraeli, offering public money for to match privately raised funds for laying out. Details of official opening etc can be found in the Marie Draper book." Confusion here surely - Kennington Park east was housing before WW2 after which the 'slums' were cleared. The common land referes to the historic western landscaped part of the park with its matured trees. Szczels 21:14, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
NOTES ON THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION ON KENNINGTON PARK
A list of those executed is now online. See: [1]
According to her there is still no authoritative overview of Chartism. This is partly due to the fact that Chartism was a federation of small groups widely spread and partly the above mentioned bias against working class self activity.
The tired old case for Chartism as a failure can be found in "Failed Chartist Demonstration in London' History Today Vol 48 issue 4 pp 34/35 1998
J.M. Neeson Commoners: common right, enclosure and social change in England 1700 - 1820 Cambridge 1993 The enclosures signified a profound change in human relations to their means of subsistence.
Please do add in comments...
Back to Kennington_Park timeline
The metaphor of a 'level playing field' as relating to the idea of the commons, has come to me from Tony Moody who runs the local cricket project, which uses Catchy Shubby cricket as a selector mechanism that creates a level playing field. Catchy Shubby Cricket was invented in Jamaica but is resisted by the English Cricket establishment who do not want interference with their selection proceedures.
The idea that the flood silt would re-level the playing fields every season makes a lot of sense in relation to the early references to games being played on the common. There is even some speculation that cricket may have been invented on the Kennington common green! (The earliest image of cricket on a badge seems to be an image of the common).
Szczels 14:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
The Local Equadorian community tried to get permissions to play volleyball again in 2005. They faced opposition local and institutional. We sent more letters of support but Lambeth Council would only make impractical offers. update Szczels The same local people are also against so-called organised football teams playing in the park. (Football stopped by park rangers see Photo and report March 2006)
The reason this is relevant to Wikipedia is because of the repression/enclosure of the commons.
Large scale marches and protests do not start in the park any more. See what may have been the last one here last march This may be due to the large public liability insurance that Lambeth Council demand as much as it is local opposition. But its hard to know because no one is open about these things... We did at least have Benson's funfair in the park over the last ten days. Szczels 15:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know where to start with this. It needs to turn into an encyclopedia article - its too chatty and too much irrelevent detail. We don't need the comments on the date of the release of Nelson Mandela or local friends group members referred to (unless they've done something that is really memorable - NB I live 10 mins walk away and I haven't heard of any of these people). The key points need picking out - they are being lost in lots of noise. A couple of random thoughts - was the Rastafarian temple originally one of the squatted St Agnes Place houses? I think that was to do with a park extension that didn't happen. The patch of grass on the side of Camberwell New Road is separate I believe - I think it's called Kennington Open Space. Secret london 00:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC) (The park extension is about to happen and you are right about the Camberwell New Road green. Szczels (The article has been cleaned up since this comment!) Szczels 12:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok I can agree about some of the chat Secret London but the 'relevance' of the detail is up to me, as I am living next to the park and obsessed with it, to judge. I have removed some of the contextual data which could also be seen as irrelevant, such as the date of Mandela's release. The fact you have never heard of people is exactly why I have put so much time into researching this place, much of its history was unmarked and largely unappreciated locally. I think that the style of a wikipedia entry has to get a balance between being live history, which can be noisy and in-the-process- of-interpetation and the a succinct and dry summary of key information. That balance is what I'm aiming at. Also it was criticised for being a timeline not being the correct format but why not? It allows a lot of informaton and space for people to make their own interpretations. The point about KP is that is has a hidden history (ie secret london!) and its histories are open to interpretation. This interpretation is crucial to the way the park is viewed, funded and used today! We need to keep Wikipedia diverse and open and not let it get to rigidly stylised Szczels 14:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I've made a few minor edits - I've left 'gymbasium' - should this be gymnasium?
Two other points: my understanding is that a large burial pit from the ?1666? plague is at the intersection of the roads to the west of St Marks: true? worth adding?
And, secondly, the ?old chesnut? about 'secret' tunnels under the common - leading where? for what purpose? kept secret by/for whom?
John Courtneidge
Yes gymnasium! I know nothing of the burial pit or it being on the common. What is your source of information? Secret tunnels again I know nothing but there may well be tunnels associated with the early Underground e.g. ventilation etc. or going off cellars of previously adjacent buildings... Maybe the London Underground could be persuaded to divulge information - but I doubt it in the current climate of fear. Szczels 13:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I was shocked to see the extent of the trenches over the south field in Rob Patemans excellent pamphlet. Somehow the extent of the horror of it got through to me. And of course there were many more bodies left than I had estimated from my original research in Lambeth Archives in 1996/7. See links on main page for text.
Also the story related on [4] Perhaps I should put this photo on the main page? Szczels 12:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
There was a Theatre event in the east park extension in the Eighties one November 5th. There were giant effigies of Thatcher and ? and a bonfire It was really spectacular especially for people in the Brandon towers. Anyone have any date and details? The theatre company? etc. Szczels 12:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
"Chartism was the first national working class organisation and the rally on 10 April 1848 the high point of the Chartist movement."
I'd dispute that. The movement had been in decline for years by 1848. The Kennington Common rally was more a last hurrah than a high point. Legion 22:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I take your point Legion. I think 'high point' can be taken in different ways. Perhaps I should say the event was the most famous challenge of Chartism or something... to be more precise. What do you think is the most authoritative account on Chartism? Szczels 12:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Now, I'm afraid that when it comes to that I'm less help. I'm afriad my knowldge of Chartism is only at A-level.... level, so I'm no expert on Chartist historiography. I could randomly shout out names I've come across, but I doubt that would be much help. : /
The rally at Kennington was one of the most famous events in the movement's history I'd say. But not necessarily the most famous. I think the entry itself could be trimmed down a bit: the description of Chartism could be covered simply by a link to the Wiki article on Chartism itself.
Sorry if I come off as a bit impolite. It's late, and I'm never particularly good at choosing my words at the best of times. ^^; Legion 23:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
The original park railings of the enclosure where removed in the WW1. But when were they replaced and with what money? By my memory I would say it was in the mid to late Eighties... Szczels ( talk) 13:03, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
It is a pity no-one wants to keep this updated since I left the area... The Children's playground was finished and opened. When? I'm sure other notable events have taken place... Szczels ( talk) 09:47, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
"Kennington Park is often erroneously cited as the birthplace of English-born backyard wrestler "Dynamite Dragon" Gareth-Davis King. While his official ring introduction does have him hailing from "The Mean Streets of Kennington Park", he actually lived in nearby DeLaune Street, and has often returned to his local neighbourhood to help promote independent backyard wrestling promotions and encourage cross promotion between English promtions, and his own West Australian based Modern Athletic Wrestling League. He often cites the area around Kennington Park as a big influence on him as a child." Needs dates and to be put in timeline if he actually existed! Szczels ( talk) 15:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kennington Park. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:19, 4 May 2017 (UTC)