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This article was nominated for deletion on 1 October 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
A news item involving Kate Spade was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 5 June 2018. |
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Does anyone think that the ANDY SPADE stuff should be moved to his own page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.130 ( talk) 03:09, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think that Andy Spade page should be created as he is one of the leading marketing/sales advertising executives in the nation right now. - Steel87 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steel87 ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I added a cleanup tag to this article. The article is poorly constructed--it begins saying she was born in KC, then moves on to ASU, then she moves on to New York. However, then the article moves back to talking about ASU, then back to NY, and then says that she grew up in Scottsdale before once again retuning to New York. I don't know Kate Spade's chronology, but the article should be cleaned up a bit to make it more coherent. - Nick talk 01:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
someone should change all the tenses to reflect the news: http://www.wwd.com/notavailable/dotcom?target=/issue/article/117616&articleId=117616&articleType=A&industryKw=issue&industryKw2=issuearticle
Spades Stepping Aside
Thursday, July 26, 2007
By Whitney Beckett Husband-and-wife team Kate and Andy Spade are saying goodbye to the company they founded.
As their service agreement with Liz Claiborne Inc. expires after the $4.99 billion vendor acquired the accessories brand in November, Kate and Andy Spade are stepping down from their respective roles as designer and chief executive officer at the end of next week at the close of spring market. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.131.202.11 ( talk) 22:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a source for the information on Bradley Carvette? -- Neyoung ( talk) 16:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I am curious because in my research I have been unable to find any information on Bradley Carvette or anything linking him to Kate Spade. The only sentence I find is below, the exact same sentence that appears in the Wikipedia entry. While at Mademoiselle she met Bradley Carvette who worked in the art department and would become a longtime boyfriend. Together, they were featured in the magazine as part of a photo story on couples and love. If this statement has no reference or validity, I think it should be removed.-- Neyoung ( talk) 21:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Katespade.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 23:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Additional citations have been added and company sale price has been modified to reflect citation. DivineDeeds ( talk) 00:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Kate Spade has a brief appearance as a fashion designer who is scared off by the antics of the cast of Just Shoot Me, leading to Jack hiring a corporate therapist in the episode "Blush Gets Some Therapy". I'm going to go ahead and add this underneath the other Just Shoot Me reference. 72.191.116.59 ( talk) 15:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Since that's her current name (and what she's presumably being more known as, don't know how to measure that). I don't think this is a case like Puff Daddy or any other stage/pen name that changes frequently, but a one time change. JesseRafe ( talk) 21:21, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
She died today — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.76.123 ( talk) 16:16, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add date of death: June 5, 2018 because Kate Spade was found dead today in her apartment.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44374844 108.31.170.14 ( talk) 16:18, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Additional footnote source for section on death: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-kate-spade-commits-suicide-20180605-story.html Mr.ormaechea ( talk) 16:27, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
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Change "Citation Needed" under "Kate Spade & Company" to use this citation: https://www.katespade.com/katespade-customer-service-ks-about-us/ks-who-we-are.html 63.66.64.246 ( talk) 17:44, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Dear Fellow Editors, I am changing the class from start to C. The importance I am leaving the same for now. The reason is that the article has reached a level of certainty and development per the C-class level. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 19:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The cite for the ref named WSJ2016 has the extraneous Married to Terry Litton in the article's headline; it should be deleted. -- 184.207.231.122 ( talk) 02:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC) 184.207.231.122 ( talk) 02:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
There are too many quotes. We need to summarise most of them. -- John ( talk) 08:44, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Please see also WP:SEEALSO for a list of how See also is to be used. It is not for a list of lists; how does that help the reader? -- John ( talk) 15:56, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
While it does not, I allow, say anything about linking to relevant lists that include the article, it does not forbid that, either, so you can't credibly say "it is not for a list of lists". AFAIK no one has ever objected to including lists; in fact they are about the least controversial elements of see-also sections IME.
And I think they are very helpful for a reader who wants to explore "tangentially related topics" such as other people who killed themselves by hanging, other KKG sisters, other ASU alumnae, etc. Yes, you can say that anyone who wants to explore that can go down to the categories, but guess what ... there are a lot more people who read Wikipedia than edit it, and IME many of them aren't aware of the categories at all (and they're even harder to see on the mobile platform). So, having linked lists about three-quarters of the way down works for those readers (which is to say, most of them).
Also, when you remove the links but not the portals, without a {{ clear}} the box drops into the refs section and spoils the column formatting.
Now, if we were to have consensus that this article doesn't need a see-also section (which we do not seem to have; I got at least one "thanks" for restoring it), we could then convert the portal template to {{ portal bar}} and put it at the bottom. But I think for now we should leave things as is, so I'm putting the links back in the section. Daniel Case ( talk) 16:16, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
However, I do sort of see your point about how it does seem to take more space relative to the rest of the article than usual. I think that we should, however, focus on an additive solution to that problem, expanding and improving the article as we have been so as to reduce the relative space the see-also section takes up. No one would deny that it's necessary in any event. Daniel Case ( talk) 16:51, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
@ John: Excuse me if I'm missing something but what I don't see is this "everyone else" you're referring to. Daniel Case ( talk) 23:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Per your request, I am not pinging you on this one (I did it out of the apparently naĭve belief that you were, like most Wikipedians, open to rational discussion of your edits; as you have now demonstrated that you aren't by explicitly requesting that I not use Echo to notify you of my responses to even the most trivial things you ahve said, I will not in turn expect a response from you (and indeed I would consider it incivil of you to do so given your request). Daniel Case ( talk) 19:27, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
It appears the consensus is that the section should be revised. I suggest the following. I am new to dealing with disputed content, so let me know if we are able to replace now or if we need to pursuit other avenues of content dispute resolution:
I'm not positive the citations are strong enough to support most of the section on "death", particularly the comments by her sister about her interest in Robin William's death. I do see that a counterargument is presented in the next paragraph, but I have doubts on whether most of the content belongs here and is consistent with our policies. I'd love for more experienced editors to comment on this. †Basilosauridae ❯❯❯Talk 16:46, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
@ John: You are casting aspersions on the content, not anyone. Daniel Case ( talk) 00:01, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
I've opened up a RfC for the purpose of attracting more input and opinions. The question to new editors is: is the current section on her death compliant with Wikipedia policies and standards? If not, how could it be improved? †Basilosauridae ❯❯❯Talk 01:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Saffo believed Kate had been planning to kill herself for some time.power~enwiki ( π, ν) 04:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
WP:BLPGOSSIP offers a three-pronged test (as lawyers would say) for "gossip": "Ask yourself whether the source is reliable; whether the material is being presented as true; and whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject.". So ...
On the matter of sheer scale, I would compare what we have here with the corresponding section in the article about Chris Cornell, who hung himself barely over a year ago. That section goes into far greater detail than this one does, even telling us exactly what prescription drugs (and in what amounts) were found in his system after his death, even though they did not contribute to it.
Going way back to another (now) well-known celebrity suicide by hanging, the " Death" section of Ian Curtis, you will find an overlong blockquote from his wife about how she found his body, and discussion of his possible suicidal ideations ("no words could explain, no actions determine" notwithstanding).
And, given this morning's news, I'm sure something like this will probably come up at the Anthony Bourdain article's talk page as well within a few days as more people start talking to the media.
So, I don't consider this "gossipy". I think those opposed to it are calling it "gossipy" because it sounds like the sort of thing you only read about in the tabloid newspapers and websites that, at best, we keep at arm's length here (if not banning entirely). But our standards for "gossip", as reiterated above, only consider whether the material is relevant to the article, not whether it's salacious (and there are details in this death that have been reported which I don't think the article needs, like the fact that she hung herself with a red scarf).
Consider that as it is this content is not etched in stone. As has been the pattern with other recent celebrity suicides, I'm pretty sure (and please don't throw WP:CRYSTAL at me) that over the next months, or year, more reportage will emerge which will allow us to modify, clarify and elaborate on what we have here now—I'm sure we'll see a Vanity Fair article on "The Last Days of Kate Spade", or something like that, at the very least. Daniel Case ( talk) 18:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
It appears the consensus is that the section should be revised. I suggest the following. I am new to dealing with disputed content, so let me know if we are able to replace now or if we need to pursuit other avenues of content dispute resolution:
KateSpade.com is the website of the brand, not the person. It should not be listed simply as Official website on this article. -- 184.207.178.170 ( talk) 00:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Speaking of other things, I'm glad we have a picture now, but did anyone really try to find a free one? To be fair, I have been looking through the CC-BY and CC-BY-SA streams on Flickr and nobody's uploaded one yet (often an unexpected celebrity death leads to more images of that person being uploaded). Perhaps I will have to see if someone's amenable to changing the licensing on one they've already uploaded. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:38, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
I feel this needs to be included. [3] I have also edited Andy's page to help. 2601:447:4101:41F9:F5A8:F46B:8D88:E2BF ( talk) 22:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Regarding the "Early life" section: neither of the two sources cited mention either St. Teresa's Academy or University of Kansas. Furthermore, she is categorized in Category:American Roman Catholics, but neither sources nor article have support for this per WP:EGRS. 2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 ( talk) 22:58, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
I removed the sentence about the father dying minutes before the funeral. As the source plainly states, he died the night before:
So mr. Brosnahan died the night before the funeral; what happened minutes before the funeral was that KCS received the statement wrt. this.
T
88.89.5.29 (
talk) 22:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kate Spade article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 1 October 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
A news item involving Kate Spade was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 5 June 2018. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 5, 2019. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Does anyone think that the ANDY SPADE stuff should be moved to his own page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.116.130 ( talk) 03:09, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I think that Andy Spade page should be created as he is one of the leading marketing/sales advertising executives in the nation right now. - Steel87 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steel87 ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I added a cleanup tag to this article. The article is poorly constructed--it begins saying she was born in KC, then moves on to ASU, then she moves on to New York. However, then the article moves back to talking about ASU, then back to NY, and then says that she grew up in Scottsdale before once again retuning to New York. I don't know Kate Spade's chronology, but the article should be cleaned up a bit to make it more coherent. - Nick talk 01:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
someone should change all the tenses to reflect the news: http://www.wwd.com/notavailable/dotcom?target=/issue/article/117616&articleId=117616&articleType=A&industryKw=issue&industryKw2=issuearticle
Spades Stepping Aside
Thursday, July 26, 2007
By Whitney Beckett Husband-and-wife team Kate and Andy Spade are saying goodbye to the company they founded.
As their service agreement with Liz Claiborne Inc. expires after the $4.99 billion vendor acquired the accessories brand in November, Kate and Andy Spade are stepping down from their respective roles as designer and chief executive officer at the end of next week at the close of spring market. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.131.202.11 ( talk) 22:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know of a source for the information on Bradley Carvette? -- Neyoung ( talk) 16:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I am curious because in my research I have been unable to find any information on Bradley Carvette or anything linking him to Kate Spade. The only sentence I find is below, the exact same sentence that appears in the Wikipedia entry. While at Mademoiselle she met Bradley Carvette who worked in the art department and would become a longtime boyfriend. Together, they were featured in the magazine as part of a photo story on couples and love. If this statement has no reference or validity, I think it should be removed.-- Neyoung ( talk) 21:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Katespade.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 23:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Additional citations have been added and company sale price has been modified to reflect citation. DivineDeeds ( talk) 00:21, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Kate Spade has a brief appearance as a fashion designer who is scared off by the antics of the cast of Just Shoot Me, leading to Jack hiring a corporate therapist in the episode "Blush Gets Some Therapy". I'm going to go ahead and add this underneath the other Just Shoot Me reference. 72.191.116.59 ( talk) 15:42, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Since that's her current name (and what she's presumably being more known as, don't know how to measure that). I don't think this is a case like Puff Daddy or any other stage/pen name that changes frequently, but a one time change. JesseRafe ( talk) 21:21, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
She died today — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.2.76.123 ( talk) 16:16, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add date of death: June 5, 2018 because Kate Spade was found dead today in her apartment.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44374844 108.31.170.14 ( talk) 16:18, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Additional footnote source for section on death: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-kate-spade-commits-suicide-20180605-story.html Mr.ormaechea ( talk) 16:27, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Citation Needed" under "Kate Spade & Company" to use this citation: https://www.katespade.com/katespade-customer-service-ks-about-us/ks-who-we-are.html 63.66.64.246 ( talk) 17:44, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Dear Fellow Editors, I am changing the class from start to C. The importance I am leaving the same for now. The reason is that the article has reached a level of certainty and development per the C-class level. Geraldshields11 ( talk) 19:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The cite for the ref named WSJ2016 has the extraneous Married to Terry Litton in the article's headline; it should be deleted. -- 184.207.231.122 ( talk) 02:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC) 184.207.231.122 ( talk) 02:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
There are too many quotes. We need to summarise most of them. -- John ( talk) 08:44, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Please see also WP:SEEALSO for a list of how See also is to be used. It is not for a list of lists; how does that help the reader? -- John ( talk) 15:56, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
While it does not, I allow, say anything about linking to relevant lists that include the article, it does not forbid that, either, so you can't credibly say "it is not for a list of lists". AFAIK no one has ever objected to including lists; in fact they are about the least controversial elements of see-also sections IME.
And I think they are very helpful for a reader who wants to explore "tangentially related topics" such as other people who killed themselves by hanging, other KKG sisters, other ASU alumnae, etc. Yes, you can say that anyone who wants to explore that can go down to the categories, but guess what ... there are a lot more people who read Wikipedia than edit it, and IME many of them aren't aware of the categories at all (and they're even harder to see on the mobile platform). So, having linked lists about three-quarters of the way down works for those readers (which is to say, most of them).
Also, when you remove the links but not the portals, without a {{ clear}} the box drops into the refs section and spoils the column formatting.
Now, if we were to have consensus that this article doesn't need a see-also section (which we do not seem to have; I got at least one "thanks" for restoring it), we could then convert the portal template to {{ portal bar}} and put it at the bottom. But I think for now we should leave things as is, so I'm putting the links back in the section. Daniel Case ( talk) 16:16, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
However, I do sort of see your point about how it does seem to take more space relative to the rest of the article than usual. I think that we should, however, focus on an additive solution to that problem, expanding and improving the article as we have been so as to reduce the relative space the see-also section takes up. No one would deny that it's necessary in any event. Daniel Case ( talk) 16:51, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
@ John: Excuse me if I'm missing something but what I don't see is this "everyone else" you're referring to. Daniel Case ( talk) 23:59, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
Per your request, I am not pinging you on this one (I did it out of the apparently naĭve belief that you were, like most Wikipedians, open to rational discussion of your edits; as you have now demonstrated that you aren't by explicitly requesting that I not use Echo to notify you of my responses to even the most trivial things you ahve said, I will not in turn expect a response from you (and indeed I would consider it incivil of you to do so given your request). Daniel Case ( talk) 19:27, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
It appears the consensus is that the section should be revised. I suggest the following. I am new to dealing with disputed content, so let me know if we are able to replace now or if we need to pursuit other avenues of content dispute resolution:
I'm not positive the citations are strong enough to support most of the section on "death", particularly the comments by her sister about her interest in Robin William's death. I do see that a counterargument is presented in the next paragraph, but I have doubts on whether most of the content belongs here and is consistent with our policies. I'd love for more experienced editors to comment on this. †Basilosauridae ❯❯❯Talk 16:46, 7 June 2018 (UTC)
@ John: You are casting aspersions on the content, not anyone. Daniel Case ( talk) 00:01, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
I've opened up a RfC for the purpose of attracting more input and opinions. The question to new editors is: is the current section on her death compliant with Wikipedia policies and standards? If not, how could it be improved? †Basilosauridae ❯❯❯Talk 01:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Saffo believed Kate had been planning to kill herself for some time.power~enwiki ( π, ν) 04:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
WP:BLPGOSSIP offers a three-pronged test (as lawyers would say) for "gossip": "Ask yourself whether the source is reliable; whether the material is being presented as true; and whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject.". So ...
On the matter of sheer scale, I would compare what we have here with the corresponding section in the article about Chris Cornell, who hung himself barely over a year ago. That section goes into far greater detail than this one does, even telling us exactly what prescription drugs (and in what amounts) were found in his system after his death, even though they did not contribute to it.
Going way back to another (now) well-known celebrity suicide by hanging, the " Death" section of Ian Curtis, you will find an overlong blockquote from his wife about how she found his body, and discussion of his possible suicidal ideations ("no words could explain, no actions determine" notwithstanding).
And, given this morning's news, I'm sure something like this will probably come up at the Anthony Bourdain article's talk page as well within a few days as more people start talking to the media.
So, I don't consider this "gossipy". I think those opposed to it are calling it "gossipy" because it sounds like the sort of thing you only read about in the tabloid newspapers and websites that, at best, we keep at arm's length here (if not banning entirely). But our standards for "gossip", as reiterated above, only consider whether the material is relevant to the article, not whether it's salacious (and there are details in this death that have been reported which I don't think the article needs, like the fact that she hung herself with a red scarf).
Consider that as it is this content is not etched in stone. As has been the pattern with other recent celebrity suicides, I'm pretty sure (and please don't throw WP:CRYSTAL at me) that over the next months, or year, more reportage will emerge which will allow us to modify, clarify and elaborate on what we have here now—I'm sure we'll see a Vanity Fair article on "The Last Days of Kate Spade", or something like that, at the very least. Daniel Case ( talk) 18:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
It appears the consensus is that the section should be revised. I suggest the following. I am new to dealing with disputed content, so let me know if we are able to replace now or if we need to pursuit other avenues of content dispute resolution:
KateSpade.com is the website of the brand, not the person. It should not be listed simply as Official website on this article. -- 184.207.178.170 ( talk) 00:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Speaking of other things, I'm glad we have a picture now, but did anyone really try to find a free one? To be fair, I have been looking through the CC-BY and CC-BY-SA streams on Flickr and nobody's uploaded one yet (often an unexpected celebrity death leads to more images of that person being uploaded). Perhaps I will have to see if someone's amenable to changing the licensing on one they've already uploaded. Daniel Case ( talk) 19:38, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
I feel this needs to be included. [3] I have also edited Andy's page to help. 2601:447:4101:41F9:F5A8:F46B:8D88:E2BF ( talk) 22:45, 9 June 2018 (UTC)
Regarding the "Early life" section: neither of the two sources cited mention either St. Teresa's Academy or University of Kansas. Furthermore, she is categorized in Category:American Roman Catholics, but neither sources nor article have support for this per WP:EGRS. 2600:8800:1880:91E:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 ( talk) 22:58, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi,
I removed the sentence about the father dying minutes before the funeral. As the source plainly states, he died the night before:
So mr. Brosnahan died the night before the funeral; what happened minutes before the funeral was that KCS received the statement wrt. this.
T
88.89.5.29 (
talk) 22:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)