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When I was in Hawaii I was told this was a private island, not accessible to the general public. Is this true? And if it is, could you explain who lives there and why. (I was given an explanation but I would like to verify it.) Mattisse (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Regarding this edit "Don't use non-English characters in English text" [1], the okina is used in accepted english text for both place names and words, eg aʻa lava. FYI- the Okina is recognized as an accepted letter in over 5000 articles [2]. Further, dictionaries and US Federal and state governments recognize the Okina as an acceptable character in usage in the English language. Besides Polynesian place names, celestial bodies have names with the okina eg. Hi'iaka (moon). The okina is a letter that removes confusion (eg. is aa a typo? How is it pronounced? Which place is being refered to, the one with the okina or without?) For this reason, Wikipedia has The issue of the okina's use in articles is being discussed at Template talk:Okina.
Please provide a rationale for why this article should depart from the norm of other Hawaiʻi location articles. - J JMesserly ( talk) 16:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps you were confusing convention for article titles with conventions for okina in the body of text? In any case, please provide your rationale along with citations to authoritative documents for departing from established convention on Hawaiʻi articles, and for departing from MOS guidelines. Otherwise, kindly desist in reverting the article over this matter. - J JMesserly ( talk) 21:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)"Use of the kahakō and ʻokina, as used in current standard Hawaiian orthography, is preferred in Hawaiian language words and names used in articles dealing with Hawaiʻi."
(undent) Notwithstanding your claims of authority, I have provided citations for WP authority. You have declined. If you will not support your case, you have no support for your revert. - J JMesserly ( talk) 04:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Nyttend, with all due respect, you're completely overlooking that ʻokina and kahakō can find frequent use for English in Hawaiʻi. While some people in Hawaiʻi don't use it at all, many in Hawaiʻi do, even if they are monolingual in English. It's a regional convention issue, just like harbor vs. harbour or tire vs. tyre, and in this particular case both spellings are commonly used. However, the issue of ʻokina is far more contentious than these: Usage of the ʻokina even in monolingual Hawaiian English and Hawaiʻi-associated English (and I'm a kamaʻāina) is considered more polished and more complete. When a text is missing the ʻokina and you add it, you're copyediting. When the text already has the ʻokina and you intentionally remove it, it borders on what can seem like imperialism of a convention from London or Washington against another regional convention no less valid and no less strongly defended. Even in the United States—which legally has no nation-wide official language and where language is left to states and territories to decide—it can be insensitive and contextually quite inappropriate to force a Chicago (etc.) convention on a Hawaiʻi spelling. Wikipedia doesn't have a policy on using only one specific regional variety of English spelling on the whole of Wikipedia; in fact, if I recall correctly, Wikipedia advises against forcefully respelling completely valid regional spelling differences. For Hawaiʻi-related articles, it only makes sense to use spellings that are particularly polished and cherished to Hawaiʻi, rather than deriding them with pejorative labels like "foreign language spelling", especially since the Hawaiian language—while not a native language to most people—isn't even a language of a foreign country. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 07:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Gilgamesh, no disrespect to you, but you're the one that moved all these articles to with-diacritics-and-okina (isn't there some term that encompasses both of these) titles; I can't see the strength of an argument that has already been decided against. As for your point, Messerly, I have continued procedure on my side, I tell you that you are misunderstanding what the project says (don't misrepresent my position), and I have told you...and told you...and TOLD YOU [:-)] that this is the way that the project worked it out a long time ago. Bring in some of those who were involved in the discussion and supported the current formatting, or have a new discussion composed of several people, and I'll listen, but as long as there's neither I have no evidence that your interpretation is correct. Nyttend ( talk) 11:53, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
(undent) Nyttend- same response. The project has decided otherwise. Just because the Census bureau has chosen to spell names differently than all the local signs and people use is completely irrelevant. CDP is not the authority. WP guidelines are. I have cited the pertinent one, and you have cited none to support your revert. - J JMesserly ( talk) 01:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Ali'i- Sounds worth doing. What are the candidates for a broad forum?
Let's just brainstorm the list. What are the other candidates for venue? - J JMesserly ( talk) 01:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
(undent) Kapaʻau is a place also recognized by the USGS, FEMA and the US National Park Service. Is your proposal that the article be solely devoted to the census bureau data, or simply that the census bureau designation makes recognition as Kapaʻau by other official agencies and by local english speaking residents irrelevant? - J JMesserly ( talk) 16:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Comment - At the very least, shouldn't the Hawaiian spelling be included in parentheses, as it is at Hawaii? — Kal (talk) 04:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
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When I was in Hawaii I was told this was a private island, not accessible to the general public. Is this true? And if it is, could you explain who lives there and why. (I was given an explanation but I would like to verify it.) Mattisse (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Regarding this edit "Don't use non-English characters in English text" [1], the okina is used in accepted english text for both place names and words, eg aʻa lava. FYI- the Okina is recognized as an accepted letter in over 5000 articles [2]. Further, dictionaries and US Federal and state governments recognize the Okina as an acceptable character in usage in the English language. Besides Polynesian place names, celestial bodies have names with the okina eg. Hi'iaka (moon). The okina is a letter that removes confusion (eg. is aa a typo? How is it pronounced? Which place is being refered to, the one with the okina or without?) For this reason, Wikipedia has The issue of the okina's use in articles is being discussed at Template talk:Okina.
Please provide a rationale for why this article should depart from the norm of other Hawaiʻi location articles. - J JMesserly ( talk) 16:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps you were confusing convention for article titles with conventions for okina in the body of text? In any case, please provide your rationale along with citations to authoritative documents for departing from established convention on Hawaiʻi articles, and for departing from MOS guidelines. Otherwise, kindly desist in reverting the article over this matter. - J JMesserly ( talk) 21:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC)"Use of the kahakō and ʻokina, as used in current standard Hawaiian orthography, is preferred in Hawaiian language words and names used in articles dealing with Hawaiʻi."
(undent) Notwithstanding your claims of authority, I have provided citations for WP authority. You have declined. If you will not support your case, you have no support for your revert. - J JMesserly ( talk) 04:59, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Nyttend, with all due respect, you're completely overlooking that ʻokina and kahakō can find frequent use for English in Hawaiʻi. While some people in Hawaiʻi don't use it at all, many in Hawaiʻi do, even if they are monolingual in English. It's a regional convention issue, just like harbor vs. harbour or tire vs. tyre, and in this particular case both spellings are commonly used. However, the issue of ʻokina is far more contentious than these: Usage of the ʻokina even in monolingual Hawaiian English and Hawaiʻi-associated English (and I'm a kamaʻāina) is considered more polished and more complete. When a text is missing the ʻokina and you add it, you're copyediting. When the text already has the ʻokina and you intentionally remove it, it borders on what can seem like imperialism of a convention from London or Washington against another regional convention no less valid and no less strongly defended. Even in the United States—which legally has no nation-wide official language and where language is left to states and territories to decide—it can be insensitive and contextually quite inappropriate to force a Chicago (etc.) convention on a Hawaiʻi spelling. Wikipedia doesn't have a policy on using only one specific regional variety of English spelling on the whole of Wikipedia; in fact, if I recall correctly, Wikipedia advises against forcefully respelling completely valid regional spelling differences. For Hawaiʻi-related articles, it only makes sense to use spellings that are particularly polished and cherished to Hawaiʻi, rather than deriding them with pejorative labels like "foreign language spelling", especially since the Hawaiian language—while not a native language to most people—isn't even a language of a foreign country. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 07:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Gilgamesh, no disrespect to you, but you're the one that moved all these articles to with-diacritics-and-okina (isn't there some term that encompasses both of these) titles; I can't see the strength of an argument that has already been decided against. As for your point, Messerly, I have continued procedure on my side, I tell you that you are misunderstanding what the project says (don't misrepresent my position), and I have told you...and told you...and TOLD YOU [:-)] that this is the way that the project worked it out a long time ago. Bring in some of those who were involved in the discussion and supported the current formatting, or have a new discussion composed of several people, and I'll listen, but as long as there's neither I have no evidence that your interpretation is correct. Nyttend ( talk) 11:53, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
(undent) Nyttend- same response. The project has decided otherwise. Just because the Census bureau has chosen to spell names differently than all the local signs and people use is completely irrelevant. CDP is not the authority. WP guidelines are. I have cited the pertinent one, and you have cited none to support your revert. - J JMesserly ( talk) 01:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Ali'i- Sounds worth doing. What are the candidates for a broad forum?
Let's just brainstorm the list. What are the other candidates for venue? - J JMesserly ( talk) 01:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
(undent) Kapaʻau is a place also recognized by the USGS, FEMA and the US National Park Service. Is your proposal that the article be solely devoted to the census bureau data, or simply that the census bureau designation makes recognition as Kapaʻau by other official agencies and by local english speaking residents irrelevant? - J JMesserly ( talk) 16:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Comment - At the very least, shouldn't the Hawaiian spelling be included in parentheses, as it is at Hawaii? — Kal (talk) 04:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
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