Kaktovik numerals has been listed as one of the
Mathematics good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: March 6, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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A fact from Kaktovik numerals appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 25 March 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
"Inuit" is the name of the people and "Inuktitut" the name of a language, as I understand it - in this article, "Inuit" is used as a language name a few times.
However, I don't want to replace those mentions of "Inuit" with "Inuktitut" because not all speakers of Eskimo-Aleut languages call their spoken variety "Inuktitut". Ideally, someone more familiar with the situation should amend the article appropriately. -- pne (talk) 15:05, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Please, moved from Inuit numerals to Kaktovik Inupiaq numerals or Inupiat numerals. The name "Inuit" is official name of Canadian Eskimos. But, the official and popular common name of Alaskan Inuits are Inupiat (true orthography: Iñupiat). The true name of numerals is "Kaktovik Inupiaq numerals" The primarly reference is " http://www.ankn.uaf.edu/sop/SOPv2i1.html". The Inupiat people, the Inupiat language and the Inupiat numerals -- Kmoksy ( talk) 06:39, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
I have no time to go through this thoroughly, but it appears to me that there is a problem with the computation in the first side box . I don't have the unicode signs but it seems that whats translated as 30561 should be 30461 and 501 should be translated as 401, but then the computation doesn't work anymore. I didn't check the second box. ???
What are sub-bases.Can someone explain it to me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alhadialika ( talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Separate issue: is the current thinking really that 5 is a sub-base because of the grouping of animal skins rather than the biological fact that humans have 5 fingers on each hand? - Eponymous-Archon ( talk) 22:42, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
No. If anything, it's the opposite. We don't have a word 'dozen' because that's how eggs are packaged, but rather we pack eggs by the dozen because that's a base for counting. The sub-base is almost certainly because people count on five fingers. — kwami ( talk) 22:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
As of 16 June 2019, LaserYukon in Unicode, a commercial font by Linguist's Software, is the only known font that encodes the Kaktovik Inupiaq Numerals. The LaserYukon in Unicode font makes use of two distinct ranges within the Unicode Private Use Area range.
This font uses codepoints U+E5A0 through U+E5B3 for displaying Kaktovik numerals in a regular font weight, and separately uses the range U+E5C0 through U+E5D3 for displaying the Kaktovik numerals in a bold font weight. These ranges have been previously registered in the Conscript Unicode Registry, although it is unclear whether the respective constructed scripts (SSÛRAKI and GARGOYLE) are currently in use.
Code point (regular) | Code point (bold) | Character |
---|---|---|
U+E5A0 | U+E5C0 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ONE |
U+E5A1 | U+E5C1 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TWO |
U+E5A2 | U+E5C2 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL THREE |
U+E5A3 | U+E5C3 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FOUR |
U+E5A4 | U+E5C4 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FIVE |
U+E5A5 | U+E5C5 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SIX |
U+E5A6 | U+E5C6 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SEVEN |
U+E5A7 | U+E5C7 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL EIGHT |
U+E5A8 | U+E5C8 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL NINE |
U+E5A9 | U+E5C9 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TEN |
U+E5AA | U+E5CA | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ELEVEN |
U+E5AB | U+E5CB | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TWELVE |
U+E5AC | U+E5CC | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL THIRTEEN |
U+E5AD | U+E5CD | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FOURTEEN |
U+E5AE | U+E5CE | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FIFTEEN |
U+E5AF | U+E5CF | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SIXTEEN |
U+E5B0 | U+E5D0 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SEVENTEEN |
U+E5B1 | U+E5D1 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL EIGHTEEN |
U+E5B2 | U+E5D2 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL NINETEEN |
U+E5B3 | U+E5D3 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ZERO |
Dowobeha ( talk) 20:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
There's a block provisionally allocated to them in the SMP ( U+1D2C0-1D2DF). The private codes above are trivia and don't belong on WP. There's no connection to the Conscript Registry. — kwami ( talk) 03:00, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
There was a section
"Further reading"
that I have moved here, as that is just a bot-produced page. -- WiseWoman ( talk) 17:04, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that's garbage. — kwami ( talk) 02:59, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
EdwardLane ( talk) 14:12, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
When did it fall out of use? A paragraph explaining the demise of such a pleasant system should be added. 121.45.171.107 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:33, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Done-- Akrasia25 ( talk) 13:19, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I was wrong to list it as 'former'. Still in use in 2021. — kwami ( talk) 02:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
This page should be changed from Kaktovik Iñupiaq numerals to simply "Iñupiaq numerals". They are used not only by Kaktovik, but in other Iñupiaq communities. Elders have also advised this name change 24.148.7.52 ( talk) 17:54, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Evidence? Everyone appears to use "Kaktovik", including the elders. "Inupiaq numerals" wouldn't be appropriate because that means something else (namely, the numerals of Inupiaq). — kwami ( talk) 02:56, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Evidence?
I only get 1,890 hits for "Iñupiaq numerals" on Google (vs 388 for "Kaktovik numerals"), but 1,860 for "Kaktovik Iñupiaq numerals". Which leaves only 30 for "Iñupiaq numerals". (Omniglot being one.) — kwami ( talk) 01:04, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 18:57, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Kaktovik numerals → Iñupiaq numerals – Though devised in Kaktovik, the numerals are used in several Iñupiaq communities today, including Utiqiaġvik. A Google search finds 19,200 results for "Iñupiaq numerals" and only 7,180 results for "Kaktovik numerals". Elders in Utqiaġvik has advised advised they should be called Iñupiaq numerals rather than Kaktovik numerals, since they are used outside of just Kaktovik. 24.69.133.124 ( talk) 03:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC) 24.69.133.124 ( talk) 03:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chipmunkdavis ( talk · contribs) 13:47, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Taking on this review. There are some clear immediate issues. The "System" and "Encoding" sections lack sources. One source is a youtube link, another has been tagged as failed verification. The lead references an image in a way it shouldn't per
MOS:SEEIMAGE. The text feels choppy. This is especially prominent in the Legacy section, which reads as
WP:PROSELINE. Most of the article refers to a single source, however that source seems a reasonable one for the topic at hand. Not failing this straight away as the topic feels generally well covered given the topic, and I will take a closer look at this soon, but the article needs some work.
CMD (
talk) 13:47, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
MeegsC (
talk) 13:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Kwamikagami ( talk). Self-nominated at 20:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC).
This page should also include the variant names of Kaktovik numerals: Kaktovik Iñupiaq Numerals and Iñupiaq numerals, as they are also referred to in the most definitive source for Iñupiaq language, Dr. Edna Ahgeak Maclean's Iñupiaq dictionary. Naulagmi ( talk) 21:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
At present, there is no actual representation of the characters themselves, just four graphics that display them. I think the article would be enhanced by actually having the characters in the section on their Unicode encoding, using {{ Unicode chart Kaktovik Numerals}}. Also, existing tables in this article contradict MOS:TABLECAPTION, which makes it less accessible. When I added one, another user took out a table caption. Do other users think this article should 1.) display the actual characters in the section on their encoding and 2.) follow accessibility guidelines such as MOS:TABLECAPTION? Thanks. ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 11:02, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
there is no actual representation of the characters themselves, just ... graphics that display them.
That statement is incorrect: there are both. If you copy and paste, you get the actual Unicode characters. A screen reader will see the actual Unicode characters. But because browsers cannot (yet) display them, the page coding needs to supply the graphics as well. This is something that the browser normally handles. In other articles on Unicode blocks, we also have both the Unicode characters and their graphic display, it's just that the graphic display is automated. That doesn't work here, so we need a manual workaround.
(Actually, to be more precise, the characters themselves are currently only available through the graphics. Without the graphics, we only see the code points without the characters themselves.)
Re. DRMcCreedy's comment
it should contain Unicode text
I agree -- which is why it does contain Unicode text. It has both.
As for other scripts, they usually have fonts available. Any particular reader may not have a supporting font, but they can always download and install one, which is why we'll post a note saying that may be necessary. But in this case there is no such font. Or, to be more accurate, there is one, a personal font that is available in the external links section. But installing it won't cause the browser to display the characters. I sent that font to the Phabricator a while back, and hopefully they'll add it to Wikimedia sometime soon so that readers can see Kaktovik numerals. If/when that happens, or when other fonts become available, we'll be able to remove the graphics here. But until that happens, removing the graphics will guarantee that any sans-graphic sections of this article will be useless to readers.
I'll give an example of the current coding:
line of code | [[File:Kaktovik digit 3.svg | | x32px | | 𝋃]] |
---|---|---|---|
elements of code | graphic file | display size | Unicode character |
The first element is the graphic file for display, the third is the Unicode character for copy-paste or screen readers. But as you can see, by itself it only displays as a box with its Unicode point. "𝋃" by itself is therefore useless, even if you have the world's only Unicode Kaktovik font installed. All "𝋃" currently does is tell you that Unicode character U+1D2C3 is at code point 1D2C3.
In another article, we'll enter Unicode character U+0043 in a table, and the browser will produce the graphic display "A". But if you highlight and copy it, you get the Unicode code point; when you then paste it, your browser or word processor will convert it into a graphic display for legibility. If all the browser did was display "0043", our articles would be gibberish and we'd need some other solution.
If either of you has an idea for how to make this article legible without using graphic files -- that is, if you know of a way to display "the characters themselves" and not just their code points, that would be wonderful -- please share. We can replace the graphics with your solution throughout the entire article.
— kwami ( talk) 03:57, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
In a recent edit, small images of the numerals were replaced in the text with what I assume is Unicode characters.
I am probably not the only one now seeing identical empty rectangles in place of the proper characters.
So,
Nø ( talk) 10:16, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Kwamikagami: "Pentavigesimal" means base 25 according to most sources (including Wikipedia). It's confusing to label Kaktovik and Maya numerals as "penta-vigesimal". I know there are a small number of sources that use that term when describing Kaktovik, but they are far outweighed by sources that describe it as "vigesimal". Regarding Maya numerals I'm not aware of any sources at all that describe it as "penta-vigesimal", regardless of it's similarity to Kaktovik. Applying that term to Maya is original research. I think we are much better off just describing them as "base 20, subbase 5" (or something similar), rather than using a confusing term like "penta-vigesimal". Nosferattus ( talk) 16:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
I really hoped the web font I supplied would be enabled by now, but it appears it hasn't (though I can read these digits just fine, so it's hard for me to tell). Kaktovik numbers are featuring on ABC and NBC affiliates in Alaska tonight, so I restored the graphics so that the expected spike in viewers will be able to read the article. When the web font has been implemented (it's been approved and is just waiting for someone to take the time to do it), we can restore the text version of the article. — kwami ( talk) 04:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The 2002 Bartley article includes the Iñupiaq number-words alongside the new symbols/signs and Arabic numerals (Fig. 21.2). I think the current example image at the top of this page should be replaced with that one. Bartley's article is publicly available here. Vyeh3 ( talk) 18:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Kaktovik numerals has been listed as one of the
Mathematics good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: March 6, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Kaktovik numerals appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 25 March 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
"Inuit" is the name of the people and "Inuktitut" the name of a language, as I understand it - in this article, "Inuit" is used as a language name a few times.
However, I don't want to replace those mentions of "Inuit" with "Inuktitut" because not all speakers of Eskimo-Aleut languages call their spoken variety "Inuktitut". Ideally, someone more familiar with the situation should amend the article appropriately. -- pne (talk) 15:05, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Please, moved from Inuit numerals to Kaktovik Inupiaq numerals or Inupiat numerals. The name "Inuit" is official name of Canadian Eskimos. But, the official and popular common name of Alaskan Inuits are Inupiat (true orthography: Iñupiat). The true name of numerals is "Kaktovik Inupiaq numerals" The primarly reference is " http://www.ankn.uaf.edu/sop/SOPv2i1.html". The Inupiat people, the Inupiat language and the Inupiat numerals -- Kmoksy ( talk) 06:39, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
I have no time to go through this thoroughly, but it appears to me that there is a problem with the computation in the first side box . I don't have the unicode signs but it seems that whats translated as 30561 should be 30461 and 501 should be translated as 401, but then the computation doesn't work anymore. I didn't check the second box. ???
What are sub-bases.Can someone explain it to me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alhadialika ( talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
Separate issue: is the current thinking really that 5 is a sub-base because of the grouping of animal skins rather than the biological fact that humans have 5 fingers on each hand? - Eponymous-Archon ( talk) 22:42, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
No. If anything, it's the opposite. We don't have a word 'dozen' because that's how eggs are packaged, but rather we pack eggs by the dozen because that's a base for counting. The sub-base is almost certainly because people count on five fingers. — kwami ( talk) 22:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
As of 16 June 2019, LaserYukon in Unicode, a commercial font by Linguist's Software, is the only known font that encodes the Kaktovik Inupiaq Numerals. The LaserYukon in Unicode font makes use of two distinct ranges within the Unicode Private Use Area range.
This font uses codepoints U+E5A0 through U+E5B3 for displaying Kaktovik numerals in a regular font weight, and separately uses the range U+E5C0 through U+E5D3 for displaying the Kaktovik numerals in a bold font weight. These ranges have been previously registered in the Conscript Unicode Registry, although it is unclear whether the respective constructed scripts (SSÛRAKI and GARGOYLE) are currently in use.
Code point (regular) | Code point (bold) | Character |
---|---|---|
U+E5A0 | U+E5C0 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ONE |
U+E5A1 | U+E5C1 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TWO |
U+E5A2 | U+E5C2 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL THREE |
U+E5A3 | U+E5C3 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FOUR |
U+E5A4 | U+E5C4 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FIVE |
U+E5A5 | U+E5C5 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SIX |
U+E5A6 | U+E5C6 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SEVEN |
U+E5A7 | U+E5C7 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL EIGHT |
U+E5A8 | U+E5C8 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL NINE |
U+E5A9 | U+E5C9 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TEN |
U+E5AA | U+E5CA | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ELEVEN |
U+E5AB | U+E5CB | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL TWELVE |
U+E5AC | U+E5CC | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL THIRTEEN |
U+E5AD | U+E5CD | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FOURTEEN |
U+E5AE | U+E5CE | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL FIFTEEN |
U+E5AF | U+E5CF | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SIXTEEN |
U+E5B0 | U+E5D0 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL SEVENTEEN |
U+E5B1 | U+E5D1 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL EIGHTEEN |
U+E5B2 | U+E5D2 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL NINETEEN |
U+E5B3 | U+E5D3 | KAKTOVIK INUPIAQ NUMERAL ZERO |
Dowobeha ( talk) 20:38, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
There's a block provisionally allocated to them in the SMP ( U+1D2C0-1D2DF). The private codes above are trivia and don't belong on WP. There's no connection to the Conscript Registry. — kwami ( talk) 03:00, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
There was a section
"Further reading"
that I have moved here, as that is just a bot-produced page. -- WiseWoman ( talk) 17:04, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that's garbage. — kwami ( talk) 02:59, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
EdwardLane ( talk) 14:12, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
When did it fall out of use? A paragraph explaining the demise of such a pleasant system should be added. 121.45.171.107 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:33, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
Done-- Akrasia25 ( talk) 13:19, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I was wrong to list it as 'former'. Still in use in 2021. — kwami ( talk) 02:57, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
This page should be changed from Kaktovik Iñupiaq numerals to simply "Iñupiaq numerals". They are used not only by Kaktovik, but in other Iñupiaq communities. Elders have also advised this name change 24.148.7.52 ( talk) 17:54, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Evidence? Everyone appears to use "Kaktovik", including the elders. "Inupiaq numerals" wouldn't be appropriate because that means something else (namely, the numerals of Inupiaq). — kwami ( talk) 02:56, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
Evidence?
I only get 1,890 hits for "Iñupiaq numerals" on Google (vs 388 for "Kaktovik numerals"), but 1,860 for "Kaktovik Iñupiaq numerals". Which leaves only 30 for "Iñupiaq numerals". (Omniglot being one.) — kwami ( talk) 01:04, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 18:57, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Kaktovik numerals → Iñupiaq numerals – Though devised in Kaktovik, the numerals are used in several Iñupiaq communities today, including Utiqiaġvik. A Google search finds 19,200 results for "Iñupiaq numerals" and only 7,180 results for "Kaktovik numerals". Elders in Utqiaġvik has advised advised they should be called Iñupiaq numerals rather than Kaktovik numerals, since they are used outside of just Kaktovik. 24.69.133.124 ( talk) 03:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC) 24.69.133.124 ( talk) 03:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Chipmunkdavis ( talk · contribs) 13:47, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Taking on this review. There are some clear immediate issues. The "System" and "Encoding" sections lack sources. One source is a youtube link, another has been tagged as failed verification. The lead references an image in a way it shouldn't per
MOS:SEEIMAGE. The text feels choppy. This is especially prominent in the Legacy section, which reads as
WP:PROSELINE. Most of the article refers to a single source, however that source seems a reasonable one for the topic at hand. Not failing this straight away as the topic feels generally well covered given the topic, and I will take a closer look at this soon, but the article needs some work.
CMD (
talk) 13:47, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
MeegsC (
talk) 13:42, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Kwamikagami ( talk). Self-nominated at 20:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC).
This page should also include the variant names of Kaktovik numerals: Kaktovik Iñupiaq Numerals and Iñupiaq numerals, as they are also referred to in the most definitive source for Iñupiaq language, Dr. Edna Ahgeak Maclean's Iñupiaq dictionary. Naulagmi ( talk) 21:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
At present, there is no actual representation of the characters themselves, just four graphics that display them. I think the article would be enhanced by actually having the characters in the section on their Unicode encoding, using {{ Unicode chart Kaktovik Numerals}}. Also, existing tables in this article contradict MOS:TABLECAPTION, which makes it less accessible. When I added one, another user took out a table caption. Do other users think this article should 1.) display the actual characters in the section on their encoding and 2.) follow accessibility guidelines such as MOS:TABLECAPTION? Thanks. ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 11:02, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
there is no actual representation of the characters themselves, just ... graphics that display them.
That statement is incorrect: there are both. If you copy and paste, you get the actual Unicode characters. A screen reader will see the actual Unicode characters. But because browsers cannot (yet) display them, the page coding needs to supply the graphics as well. This is something that the browser normally handles. In other articles on Unicode blocks, we also have both the Unicode characters and their graphic display, it's just that the graphic display is automated. That doesn't work here, so we need a manual workaround.
(Actually, to be more precise, the characters themselves are currently only available through the graphics. Without the graphics, we only see the code points without the characters themselves.)
Re. DRMcCreedy's comment
it should contain Unicode text
I agree -- which is why it does contain Unicode text. It has both.
As for other scripts, they usually have fonts available. Any particular reader may not have a supporting font, but they can always download and install one, which is why we'll post a note saying that may be necessary. But in this case there is no such font. Or, to be more accurate, there is one, a personal font that is available in the external links section. But installing it won't cause the browser to display the characters. I sent that font to the Phabricator a while back, and hopefully they'll add it to Wikimedia sometime soon so that readers can see Kaktovik numerals. If/when that happens, or when other fonts become available, we'll be able to remove the graphics here. But until that happens, removing the graphics will guarantee that any sans-graphic sections of this article will be useless to readers.
I'll give an example of the current coding:
line of code | [[File:Kaktovik digit 3.svg | | x32px | | 𝋃]] |
---|---|---|---|
elements of code | graphic file | display size | Unicode character |
The first element is the graphic file for display, the third is the Unicode character for copy-paste or screen readers. But as you can see, by itself it only displays as a box with its Unicode point. "𝋃" by itself is therefore useless, even if you have the world's only Unicode Kaktovik font installed. All "𝋃" currently does is tell you that Unicode character U+1D2C3 is at code point 1D2C3.
In another article, we'll enter Unicode character U+0043 in a table, and the browser will produce the graphic display "A". But if you highlight and copy it, you get the Unicode code point; when you then paste it, your browser or word processor will convert it into a graphic display for legibility. If all the browser did was display "0043", our articles would be gibberish and we'd need some other solution.
If either of you has an idea for how to make this article legible without using graphic files -- that is, if you know of a way to display "the characters themselves" and not just their code points, that would be wonderful -- please share. We can replace the graphics with your solution throughout the entire article.
— kwami ( talk) 03:57, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
In a recent edit, small images of the numerals were replaced in the text with what I assume is Unicode characters.
I am probably not the only one now seeing identical empty rectangles in place of the proper characters.
So,
Nø ( talk) 10:16, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Kwamikagami: "Pentavigesimal" means base 25 according to most sources (including Wikipedia). It's confusing to label Kaktovik and Maya numerals as "penta-vigesimal". I know there are a small number of sources that use that term when describing Kaktovik, but they are far outweighed by sources that describe it as "vigesimal". Regarding Maya numerals I'm not aware of any sources at all that describe it as "penta-vigesimal", regardless of it's similarity to Kaktovik. Applying that term to Maya is original research. I think we are much better off just describing them as "base 20, subbase 5" (or something similar), rather than using a confusing term like "penta-vigesimal". Nosferattus ( talk) 16:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
I really hoped the web font I supplied would be enabled by now, but it appears it hasn't (though I can read these digits just fine, so it's hard for me to tell). Kaktovik numbers are featuring on ABC and NBC affiliates in Alaska tonight, so I restored the graphics so that the expected spike in viewers will be able to read the article. When the web font has been implemented (it's been approved and is just waiting for someone to take the time to do it), we can restore the text version of the article. — kwami ( talk) 04:08, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
The 2002 Bartley article includes the Iñupiaq number-words alongside the new symbols/signs and Arabic numerals (Fig. 21.2). I think the current example image at the top of this page should be replaced with that one. Bartley's article is publicly available here. Vyeh3 ( talk) 18:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)