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There seem to be several unregistered users on a crusade to change her place of birth to "Estonian SSR", which would go against the general style on Wikipedia for people born in Estonia during that period as Estonia was illegally occupied and the Soviet rule her was legally null and void. Should we perhaps limit editing this page only for registered users? H2ppyme ( talk) 08:53, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Just to double check, I've noticed that the prime ministers and presidents pages of other Baltic states ( Egils Levits and Gitanas Nausėda who are the presidents of Latvia and Lithuania respectively) use the term "Soviet-occupied Latvia" and "Soviet-occupied Lithuania", could and should this be done with figures from Estonia? SpyroeBM ( talk) 00:46, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
This photo is being used on the home page today - but it's not in the article https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RE_Kaja_Kallas.jpg Tondelleo Schwarzkopf ( talk) 15:31, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Leader of the Communist Party since 2018?? Is that a troll — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.158.32.47 ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
If you go on the website of the Riigikogu, Kallas is no longer listed as a member of parliament. [1] She was certainly listed prior to becoming PM, so does anyone with advanced knowledge of Estonian politics know whether the PM has to leave their seat when being appointed to the office of PM? { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 14:34, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
References
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Can someone remove the last two sentences in the personal life section? The first one is unsourced and the other is sourced to Google Translate which doesn't make sense as Google Translate is just a translation tool. 45.251.33.222 ( talk) 13:06, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
The personal life section says that Taavi Veskimägi was a partner after Kaja Kallas was divorced from her first husband in 2006 after they married in 2002. The Wikipedia page of Taavi Veskimagi states that they were married in 2002 and were divorced in 2014. This is a contradiction of facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmorrisons ( talk • contribs) 06:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
In the Personal life section, Taavi Veskimägi's name is misspelled. 90.190.68.51 ( talk) 09:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Kaja Kallas on inimkasutaja ja poliitiline sekkuja 2001:1530:1017:B299:A113:D78F:2C08:9E02 ( talk) 18:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Ural altaic laguages Kaja or Kaya or Kai words mean "stone" . 178.246.108.225 ( talk) 19:19, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
At least as far as I've noticed, when including a place of birth in an article's infobox, it's the general practice on Wikipedia to use historical place names. Sometimes the modern-day country is included, as with Mikhail Gorbachev or Mila Kunis. With Kaja Kallas being featured on the main page, it came to my attention that many articles for people born in what's now Estonia (and possibly other states) do not adhere to this practice. It appears that, due to Estonia having been on the receiving end of Russian imperialism for the last few hundred years and the idea of state continuity of the Baltic states, opinions on whether to list Estonia or Estonian SSR as someone's place of birth often reflect the politics of the editors involved.
Personally, I think the de facto recognition of the Soviet administration by most paired with other factors like the monopoly on the legal use of force make linking to the SSR articles the sensible thing to do. Additionally, I believe the articles on the Baltic SSRs do a sufficiently good job of addressing questions about their legitimacy. In any case, I think it would be helpful to solicit comments and see if we can maybe get some kind of consensus here. Rockhead126 ( talk) 23:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
the name of the birthplace at the time of birth. Well, Estonia’s had the name Estonia since before it was occupied by the USSR, and Estonia is also the most common and most recognizable synonym for the Estonian SSR. Those docs are often interpreted to mean “use the Russian name,” with various bogus rationales given, favouring Russian and Soviet colonial bias, for no actual valid reason. Time to start using common sense and following both the letter and spirit of the guidelines (and cf. the WP:CRITERIA). Time to stop WP:RGW by clinging to something from some Cold-War-era Russian history book and start respecting Wikipedia’s guidelines and readers.
I don't see a source or even conjecture that the Soviet occupation is seen as illegalWow. Levivich ( talk) 20:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
western worlddid not recognize the Soviet government when it was formed, so can we not say someone was born in Soviet Russia or the USSR during those first few years? Mellk ( talk) 18:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
the name of the birthplace at the time of birthbut the example given in the docs applies to a city not a country, and they ignore the part that's actually related to country:
For modern subjects, the country should generally be a sovereign state, which Estonia remained under international law according to reliable sources. Additionally, per WP:COMMONNAME, during the period of occupation from 1940 to 1991, majority of English language sources refer to the country as “Estonia”, not “Estonian SSR”, see [3]. We don’t say Julie Bishop was born in the Commonwealth of Australia, we just say Australia without overlinking, so no different when we say Kaja Kallas was born in Estonia. Regardless of whether it was run by republicans or communists, it was and still is Estonia. -- Nug ( talk) 09:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Countries should generally not be linked. Ignoring this is tantamount to WP:CHERRYPICKing parts of template:infobox person to make some WP:POINT. -- Nug ( talk) 04:23, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Rnd90: @ 2600:1700:2800:4a40:f05e:d19b:fb52:e5ac: Please stop undoing edits related to this controversy section. Per WP:CSECTION, Wikipedia discourages the usage of sections devoted specifically to controversies, and encourages incorporating them into other sections. There is no reason why Kallas needs an entire section of her article dedicated to one controversy, when this information should be easily migrated into the section about her premiership, which this controversy is occurring during. Additionally, please stop adding exaggerated language such as "major world media" and maintain a neutral point of view. I am moving the controversy back into the section about her premiership, please do not edit war and discuss here rather than continuously reverting. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kaja Kallas article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A news item involving Kaja Kallas was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 27 January 2021. | ![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There seem to be several unregistered users on a crusade to change her place of birth to "Estonian SSR", which would go against the general style on Wikipedia for people born in Estonia during that period as Estonia was illegally occupied and the Soviet rule her was legally null and void. Should we perhaps limit editing this page only for registered users? H2ppyme ( talk) 08:53, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Just to double check, I've noticed that the prime ministers and presidents pages of other Baltic states ( Egils Levits and Gitanas Nausėda who are the presidents of Latvia and Lithuania respectively) use the term "Soviet-occupied Latvia" and "Soviet-occupied Lithuania", could and should this be done with figures from Estonia? SpyroeBM ( talk) 00:46, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
This photo is being used on the home page today - but it's not in the article https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RE_Kaja_Kallas.jpg Tondelleo Schwarzkopf ( talk) 15:31, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Leader of the Communist Party since 2018?? Is that a troll — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.158.32.47 ( talk) 21:30, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
If you go on the website of the Riigikogu, Kallas is no longer listed as a member of parliament. [1] She was certainly listed prior to becoming PM, so does anyone with advanced knowledge of Estonian politics know whether the PM has to leave their seat when being appointed to the office of PM? { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 14:34, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
References
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Can someone remove the last two sentences in the personal life section? The first one is unsourced and the other is sourced to Google Translate which doesn't make sense as Google Translate is just a translation tool. 45.251.33.222 ( talk) 13:06, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
The personal life section says that Taavi Veskimägi was a partner after Kaja Kallas was divorced from her first husband in 2006 after they married in 2002. The Wikipedia page of Taavi Veskimagi states that they were married in 2002 and were divorced in 2014. This is a contradiction of facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmorrisons ( talk • contribs) 06:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
In the Personal life section, Taavi Veskimägi's name is misspelled. 90.190.68.51 ( talk) 09:50, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Kaja Kallas on inimkasutaja ja poliitiline sekkuja 2001:1530:1017:B299:A113:D78F:2C08:9E02 ( talk) 18:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Ural altaic laguages Kaja or Kaya or Kai words mean "stone" . 178.246.108.225 ( talk) 19:19, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
At least as far as I've noticed, when including a place of birth in an article's infobox, it's the general practice on Wikipedia to use historical place names. Sometimes the modern-day country is included, as with Mikhail Gorbachev or Mila Kunis. With Kaja Kallas being featured on the main page, it came to my attention that many articles for people born in what's now Estonia (and possibly other states) do not adhere to this practice. It appears that, due to Estonia having been on the receiving end of Russian imperialism for the last few hundred years and the idea of state continuity of the Baltic states, opinions on whether to list Estonia or Estonian SSR as someone's place of birth often reflect the politics of the editors involved.
Personally, I think the de facto recognition of the Soviet administration by most paired with other factors like the monopoly on the legal use of force make linking to the SSR articles the sensible thing to do. Additionally, I believe the articles on the Baltic SSRs do a sufficiently good job of addressing questions about their legitimacy. In any case, I think it would be helpful to solicit comments and see if we can maybe get some kind of consensus here. Rockhead126 ( talk) 23:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
the name of the birthplace at the time of birth. Well, Estonia’s had the name Estonia since before it was occupied by the USSR, and Estonia is also the most common and most recognizable synonym for the Estonian SSR. Those docs are often interpreted to mean “use the Russian name,” with various bogus rationales given, favouring Russian and Soviet colonial bias, for no actual valid reason. Time to start using common sense and following both the letter and spirit of the guidelines (and cf. the WP:CRITERIA). Time to stop WP:RGW by clinging to something from some Cold-War-era Russian history book and start respecting Wikipedia’s guidelines and readers.
I don't see a source or even conjecture that the Soviet occupation is seen as illegalWow. Levivich ( talk) 20:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
western worlddid not recognize the Soviet government when it was formed, so can we not say someone was born in Soviet Russia or the USSR during those first few years? Mellk ( talk) 18:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
the name of the birthplace at the time of birthbut the example given in the docs applies to a city not a country, and they ignore the part that's actually related to country:
For modern subjects, the country should generally be a sovereign state, which Estonia remained under international law according to reliable sources. Additionally, per WP:COMMONNAME, during the period of occupation from 1940 to 1991, majority of English language sources refer to the country as “Estonia”, not “Estonian SSR”, see [3]. We don’t say Julie Bishop was born in the Commonwealth of Australia, we just say Australia without overlinking, so no different when we say Kaja Kallas was born in Estonia. Regardless of whether it was run by republicans or communists, it was and still is Estonia. -- Nug ( talk) 09:32, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
Countries should generally not be linked. Ignoring this is tantamount to WP:CHERRYPICKing parts of template:infobox person to make some WP:POINT. -- Nug ( talk) 04:23, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Rnd90: @ 2600:1700:2800:4a40:f05e:d19b:fb52:e5ac: Please stop undoing edits related to this controversy section. Per WP:CSECTION, Wikipedia discourages the usage of sections devoted specifically to controversies, and encourages incorporating them into other sections. There is no reason why Kallas needs an entire section of her article dedicated to one controversy, when this information should be easily migrated into the section about her premiership, which this controversy is occurring during. Additionally, please stop adding exaggerated language such as "major world media" and maintain a neutral point of view. I am moving the controversy back into the section about her premiership, please do not edit war and discuss here rather than continuously reverting. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:39, 30 August 2023 (UTC)