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"Kaeng lueang" can indeed be called "kaeng som" in Southern Thailand but it is not the same dish as the Central Thai "kaeng som". It only shares the same name. I asked one of my Southern Thai friends and the word "kaeng lueang" is also used in the South, but more in the upper areas. It is mainly the deep south that uses the word "kaeng som". It is like with "khao soi". In Northern Thailand "khao soi" is a coconut curry soup with egg noodles, whereas in Laos, it is a meat broth with strips of thick steamed rice cake.
As for the so-called "yellow curry" (kaeng kari), this dish came in to Thailand probably from Malaysia. The way the curry is made, is very much a Malay adaptation of an Indian curry as it uses dried galangal, something that is very Malay/Indonesian but not very Indian to do. - Takeaway ( talk) 09:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
You copied the text from the Thai wikipedia article to support your edits which state that the two dishes are in some way "the same" and not, as I say, very different. Here is a correct translation of the Thai text:
"Kaeng som" is a Thai dish from Central Thailand. The soup is grouped under the sour "kaeng" with meat added to it, mainly fish or prawns, and vegetables such as morning glory, papaya, radish greens, cauliflower, "dok khae", or "cha-om" omelet. Dissolve "nam phrik kaeng som" in (boiled) water and bring it to a boil. Then add in vegetables and meat, season with tamarind juice, palm sugar and salt for it to achieve a spicy, sweet, salty and sour flavor. The "kaeng som" from Southern Thailand gets its sour taste from "som khaek" while the turmeric in the "nam phrik kaeng" gives the "nam phrik kaeng" a yellow color. That is why it is known by everyone as "kaeng lueang".
So the Thai wikipedia article starts by saying that "kaeng som" is a dish from Central Thailand and continues to describe the ingredients for the Central Thai dish. It ends by stating that the sour curry ("kaeng som") from Southern Thailand is known by everyone (
Thai: อย่างว่า: lit. "everyone says") as kaeng lueang. This implies to me that the the Thais who wrote the Thai wikipedia page also see both dishes as being very different, only sharing the same name in different regions. It would seem that your way of phrasing the text in this article is indeed only your POV, and not what you have read in the Thai wikipedia. It would also seem that your whole idea that the southern Thai dish is a "variation" is all based on your misinterpretation of one sentence in Leela Punyaratabandhu's website (she's American by the way, from a Thai family, and although born in Bangkok, she was mainly raised and lived most of her life in the United States).
I have asked one of my friends, a women who was born and raised in Thailand and also still lives here, and who is also a food journalist for a well-known Thai food magazine, if kaeng som from Central Thailand and the sour curry from Southern Thailand are the same. Just like all my other Thai friends here in Thailand, she too immediately said that they were very different. According to her, the proportions of the spice mix are different, and that using som khaek instead of tamarind gives it a very different taste (that sometimes in modern, non-traditional, Thai cooking tamarind is used instead, is because tamarind is much easier to find and store than som khaek), and that using turmeric in the southern dish also makes it very different. Even the chillies used for the curry paste are different. The additional vegetable and seafood ingredients are also very different. Some ingredients that will be used in Central Thai kaeng som would never be used in Southern Thai kaeng som/kaeng lueang.
I do not see how the phrase that "Southern Thailand has its own sour curry which they call kaeng som but which in central Thailand is called kaeng lueang to differentiate it from the central Thai kaeng som" in any way suggests that the Southern Thais have gotten it wrong. It can only be read that way if read by someone who really is looking to push their own POV.
I also do not see how calling the Southern dish a "variation" of the Central Thai dish is "even-handedly" at all as it suggest that it is derived from the Central Thai dish.
It would seem that the southern Thai kaeng som/kaeng lueang actually could have an article of its own. Either that or the present kaeng som article should be rephrased in such a way that it is clear that it is not a "variation" but a dish in its own right, something I have tried to do several times already. -
Takeaway (
talk) 10:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
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What does "kaeng som" mean literally? Thank you. Maikel ( talk) 11:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
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"Kaeng lueang" can indeed be called "kaeng som" in Southern Thailand but it is not the same dish as the Central Thai "kaeng som". It only shares the same name. I asked one of my Southern Thai friends and the word "kaeng lueang" is also used in the South, but more in the upper areas. It is mainly the deep south that uses the word "kaeng som". It is like with "khao soi". In Northern Thailand "khao soi" is a coconut curry soup with egg noodles, whereas in Laos, it is a meat broth with strips of thick steamed rice cake.
As for the so-called "yellow curry" (kaeng kari), this dish came in to Thailand probably from Malaysia. The way the curry is made, is very much a Malay adaptation of an Indian curry as it uses dried galangal, something that is very Malay/Indonesian but not very Indian to do. - Takeaway ( talk) 09:26, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
You copied the text from the Thai wikipedia article to support your edits which state that the two dishes are in some way "the same" and not, as I say, very different. Here is a correct translation of the Thai text:
"Kaeng som" is a Thai dish from Central Thailand. The soup is grouped under the sour "kaeng" with meat added to it, mainly fish or prawns, and vegetables such as morning glory, papaya, radish greens, cauliflower, "dok khae", or "cha-om" omelet. Dissolve "nam phrik kaeng som" in (boiled) water and bring it to a boil. Then add in vegetables and meat, season with tamarind juice, palm sugar and salt for it to achieve a spicy, sweet, salty and sour flavor. The "kaeng som" from Southern Thailand gets its sour taste from "som khaek" while the turmeric in the "nam phrik kaeng" gives the "nam phrik kaeng" a yellow color. That is why it is known by everyone as "kaeng lueang".
So the Thai wikipedia article starts by saying that "kaeng som" is a dish from Central Thailand and continues to describe the ingredients for the Central Thai dish. It ends by stating that the sour curry ("kaeng som") from Southern Thailand is known by everyone (
Thai: อย่างว่า: lit. "everyone says") as kaeng lueang. This implies to me that the the Thais who wrote the Thai wikipedia page also see both dishes as being very different, only sharing the same name in different regions. It would seem that your way of phrasing the text in this article is indeed only your POV, and not what you have read in the Thai wikipedia. It would also seem that your whole idea that the southern Thai dish is a "variation" is all based on your misinterpretation of one sentence in Leela Punyaratabandhu's website (she's American by the way, from a Thai family, and although born in Bangkok, she was mainly raised and lived most of her life in the United States).
I have asked one of my friends, a women who was born and raised in Thailand and also still lives here, and who is also a food journalist for a well-known Thai food magazine, if kaeng som from Central Thailand and the sour curry from Southern Thailand are the same. Just like all my other Thai friends here in Thailand, she too immediately said that they were very different. According to her, the proportions of the spice mix are different, and that using som khaek instead of tamarind gives it a very different taste (that sometimes in modern, non-traditional, Thai cooking tamarind is used instead, is because tamarind is much easier to find and store than som khaek), and that using turmeric in the southern dish also makes it very different. Even the chillies used for the curry paste are different. The additional vegetable and seafood ingredients are also very different. Some ingredients that will be used in Central Thai kaeng som would never be used in Southern Thai kaeng som/kaeng lueang.
I do not see how the phrase that "Southern Thailand has its own sour curry which they call kaeng som but which in central Thailand is called kaeng lueang to differentiate it from the central Thai kaeng som" in any way suggests that the Southern Thais have gotten it wrong. It can only be read that way if read by someone who really is looking to push their own POV.
I also do not see how calling the Southern dish a "variation" of the Central Thai dish is "even-handedly" at all as it suggest that it is derived from the Central Thai dish.
It would seem that the southern Thai kaeng som/kaeng lueang actually could have an article of its own. Either that or the present kaeng som article should be rephrased in such a way that it is clear that it is not a "variation" but a dish in its own right, something I have tried to do several times already. -
Takeaway (
talk) 10:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Kaeng som. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:21, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
What does "kaeng som" mean literally? Thank you. Maikel ( talk) 11:08, 24 July 2022 (UTC)