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This is long, but worth the read to truly understand the facts about the dog(s) used in the film, and support that Koton is the main dog used in the film, along with Rando (I thought there was a possibility that there was a relation between the dogs, similar to Benji and/or Lassie dogs used, but I don't believe this to be the case).
Ok, after a lot of research, could it possibly be that Rando/Koton/Jerry Lee are the same dog with different names used throughout it's/his career or that they are different dogs used within protions of the movie, with one acting more than the others? I know I can't prove it on here, but originally being from Kansas City and seeing this movie when I was young(er) and it becoming my favorite movie ever, to the point I nearly memorized it, and seeing news-related stories about the dog(s) which can not be verified online, I am very familiar with this movie and for the most part the status of the dogs.
There have been several changes regarding "Jerry Lee". I think this should solve the problem as to "who/which" was the actual dog. There were three Jerry Lee's within this one movie. There are two different ones used in the sequels. It is likely that Koton was the initial actor/dog used either for training purposes or actually acting in scenes, but due to his death, replacements were used (ie. Rondo and/or Jerry Lee). According to one source used currently in the article, there were "backup" dogs used in the film as well:
On the set of K-9, a 1989 Jim Belushi movie, the veritable star of the film was Rando, a German Shepherd. “We actually insured the animal for twenty-five million dollars,” says Kingman, “in the event of a death, injury or sickness that caused an abandonment of the film. There were some backups, but Rando was the hero dog.” To make certain—were something to happen to Rando—that the backup dogs would be able to replace him in his remaining scenes, the dogs were separated in transit in order to diversify the risks of losing the film’s star character. [1]
I believe that some sources credited "Rando" as "Koton" and "Jerry Lee". Perhaps during the filming process, one dog named Jerry Lee was used within the credits, but Rando did most of the 'hero' work or perhaps main acting, and one of the backup dogs was Koton, who was the Kansas City Police K-9. They all were in the film, but to say that Jerry Lee is actually Rando and credited incorrectly, is wrong. And to say Koton was the only dog, who was the police officer dying in the line of duty in 1991, would also be incorrect. They were all apart of the filming, but Jim Belushi probably worked most with Rando. If you check the IMDB, Rando also played in a TV movie called "K-9". The only other explanation, although sources give credit to Koton as well, is that Rando and Koton are the same dog but called one or the other at different times/projects, with Jerry Lee being the movie character name provided for credit purposes.
Another source currently being used in the article states:
...the German shepherd Jerry Lee. Jerry Lee is the co-starring character in a film called "K-9," scheduled for release in April. Like the Rin Tin Tin stories, "K-9" was inspired by real-life dogs. The writing began when a restaurant owner who served K-9 officers became fascinated with their police dogs. [2]
So this is contrary to the fact that Rando is the "star". My contentions are that if Rando is the real dog called "Jerry Lee", that the other dogs (such as Koton) is one of the real-life K-9's who Jerry Lee was inspired by. Meaning, he was the real police dog that perhaps contributed to the filming, training, used as an example, etc.
And the third source in the article claims:
The search for Rando began about two years ago. "We looked at more than 40 dogs and didn't find the qualities we wanted," says Gail Mooring, Rando's owner and president of K-9 Paws, which provided technical advice for the movie. "The dog had to be very happy and have a lot of character, and, for reasons of cinematography, have a light face and the type of mask that goes around his eyebrows and the top of his head. American shepherds are bred mostly for dark pigment." Failing to find an American dog to fill the bill, Mooring's partner, Donn Yarnall, went to West Germany and bought four young shepherds for $10,000.
All four went to work with veteran animal trainer Karl Miller, who had just 12 weeks to prepare them for stardom. First he had to teach them to respond to commands in English. "In the third week," says Miller, "Rando showed us that he was, indeed, Jerry Lee. The typical dog knows 10 or 15 commands, but Rando has anywhere from 125 to 150 actions that he has performed at one time or another. Anything the scriptwriters dream up, Rando can do. He even comes as close to smiling as I think a dog will ever come."
Smiling and acting adorable aren't all Rando is called on to do though. "In the story," says Miller, "the dog has three different personalities. At times, he's just a slobbish, mischievous, self-willed animal. There are also times when he has to be a highly trained police dog. And then there are times in the script when he's a very noble, regal German shepherd. The one thing I couldn't train was the noble, regal part; the dog had to have that himself. And that's how Rando won the part." [3]
What this means is that there were more than one dogs used, such as Koton and Jerry Lee. In the process of filming, it's clear that Rando shined and that Rando became the lead (Jerry Lee) but that perhaps the others are still credited as working, contributing, training, etc. for the movie. Which is why sources show Koton and Jerry Lee as the actor as well. The above source also claims there are 'three personalities' that the dog shows, and perhaps at different times, Jerry Lee and Koton were used as substitutes for various scenes. It is clear that Koton was a real-life police dog who died in the line of duty and contributed to the movie. After multiple searches and perhaps uses of the dogs for scenes in the movie, I think they settled with Rando as the main contributing dog. But this shouldn't discredit the others. And maybe Jerry Lee didn't end up doing most of the film, but he is who was used in the credits. ---- BEFORE I HAVE SAVED THIS, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT KOTON IS THE MAIN DOG, AND RANDO WAS AN EXTRA THAT SOME REPORTS/MEDIA SHOWS AS THE ACTUAL ACTING DOG. SEE BELOW (THE END):
Sources regarding Koton being in the movie and/or later killed in action as a police dog: [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] (via "oldhollywoodtrailers") [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] + more! (I realize that many sites/sources overlap and use the same information/text, but these mostly seem to be different/original verifications.)
This source claims KOTON is the dog starring as Jerry Lee and Rondo the Dog from the TV film, K-9. This may mean that Koton is the only dog, as Jerry Lee in this "K-9" feature film and as Rondo the Dog in the "K-9" television film? [23] ---- AS I EDIT THIS BEFORE SENDING, I'VE COME TO THE KNOWLDGE THAT KOTON AND RANDO ARE CREDITED AS PLAYING JERRY LEE.
Koton was a real police K-9 dog that was used by the Kansas City (MO) police department paired up with Officer Patterson. Koton was responsible for over 24 felony arrests during his career as a K-9 officer. In October 1991, Koton found 10 kilos of cocaine worth an estimated $1.2 million. Unfortunately, less than a month later (Nov 18, 1991) Koton was shot and killed while attempting to apprehend a suspect in the murder of a police officer. [24]
Additional sources that Rando was in the movie: [25] [26] (this was once Koton but changed later on IMDB due to this very "debate" I'm sure) [27] [28] [29] [30]
Sources from the article (removed) regarding Rando being "the only" dog in the film: [1] [2] [3]
Sources regarding Jerry Lee being the actual dog or "character name" in the movie: [31] (same as above) [32] (same as above which mentions the dog as actor Rando AND Jerry Lee) [33] [34] [35]
I found more [reliable] sources claiming Koton was the actual dog in the movie, which is what the article first claimed. Not sure who changed Koton to Rando on IMDB, but it is not correct. Koton plays Rondo and Jerry Lee, perhaps. It's confusing and not sure any source is the "authority". Nonetheless, there are too many sources proving Koton was the police dog killed, not Rando. [36] (For easy reference and to possibly include portions of it back into the article):
The dog credited in the part is Koton, a real-life police dog from the Kansas City, Missouri police department. [4]
According to IMDb, Jerry Lee was played by a real-life police dog named Koton from the Kansas City, Missouri police department. [5]
(Koton aka Jerry Lee was a real Kansas City, Missouri police dog. On November 18, 1991, he was shot and killed apprehending a suspect in the attempted murder of a police officer. Ten days before his death, Koton found ten kilos of cocaine worth more than 1.2 million dollars.) [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] (These are in addition to the above sources used in the original edits about Koton that were removed but correct, and many are "blogged" reports of Koton's death.) Deleted Koton page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=7806891
Keep in mind that media/sources may have claimed the name of the dog at a specific time the movie was in production or during release based on "old" facts/knowledge, just like some articles may claim so-and-so is working on a project titled one thing, but when it comes out, it's another name and possibly another person/actor/artist, and the article/source/publication/stats/release/report is not updated to reflect the changes. This happens all the time. Once more, they all were probably (most likely and almost guaranteed) involved in the movie durring different portions of it, one just getting more recogniton than the other, and different people reporting who the dog really was (the actual dog's name being reported as one or the other by production staff to the "media").
One of the sources, to support it is Rando playing Jerry Lee, also states that Belushi said "the first Jerry Lee"... this could mean the first of the "K-9" movies, or first used of the three for the first film. Hard to say, but they all have to have an involvment in it, because too many sources reflect this fact. These two sources state Koton plays Jerry Lee (as Jerry Lee), which would probably mean there was a stand-in dog for the actual Jerry Lee dog doing some of the stunts, close-ups, etc. which is why the credits say "Jerry Lee as himself" I believe: [44] [45]
All of this to say that I think the article needs to include all three as being used to film/produce the movie; Jerry Lee, Koton and Rando. The above sources I provided support this notion, and I may update it futher after more discussion. Please leave this within the talk page for this purpose. FYI: There used to be an Wiki article for Koton, but it no longer exists. Even if he wasn't the dog in the movie, the article mentioned his service and death as a real K-9 officer. The other dogs used for the sequels are correct, so this is just an issue with the first "K-9" movie. I hope this clears things up? Thank you and have a great day!
P.S. It is likely that "Jerry Lee" was used to protect the actual police dog, Koton. Stating Jerry Lee as Jerry Lee in the credits, might have kept his identity private for legal/criminal purposes, instead of billing him as Koton. Then once he died in the line of duty, the "truth" came out about who he was, and Rando was probably a "stand-in". Also, edits were made and removed in the past. Let's discuss first before being sure "you/we" have the right answer. My conclusion is, again, that they all three contributed to the film and the article should therefore reflect this. 64.134.54.102 ( talk) 11:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Character: Jerry Lee
Role: Det. Mike Dooley’s (James Belushi) partner. Was chosen from the K-9 dogs unit training facility. Jerry Lee destroyed Dooley’s car (ripped out the radio), his home, relationships and everything else. There’s a famous scene in which Dooley puts Jerry Lee in a car wash machine.
Breed: German Shepherd Dog
Played by: Koton & Rando
Info: Kotton was a real police dog from the city of Kansas Missouri. He was shot by a suspect in killing a police officer, and died on 18/11/1991, Ten days earlier Kotton found 10 kilograms of cocaine worth 1.2 million dollar. Rando was one of three German shepherd dogs brought from Germany for the film, the other two were doubles. The dogs understood only commands in German and had to learn English.
(Some of these ideas may conflict, as I was typing this up over a course of hours while doing research and never saved the original post, just kept adding to it. So it will appear as just one topic, with the conclusion/resolution at the end. I also tried to play "devil's advocate" for each dog, as if I was a different person arguing the claim, until it made sense that two dogs play Jerry Lee.) 64.134.54.102 ( talk) 11:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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I am looking at the sources on this page and finding only 3 that qualify as reliable: Risk Management, The Los Angeles Times (newspaper); and People (magazine). Everything else fails reliability: user-generated, blogs, commercial sites, duplicates of IMDb (which is user-generested), duplicates of Wikipedia(!). The Koton article here on WP was deleted due to "no reliable sources for Koton's existence...".
Taking the three that pass muster:
Finally, no original research. We have to go by what the reliable sources say, and the reliable ones say Rando played Jerry Lee. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 06:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
See my response/update below. Your sources are "better", although it could be that the other dog(s) were still used as Jerry Lee in supporting roles or stunts (although nothing I can find claims this via the Internet), as at least one of the sites you provided state there were extras. As far as I'm concerned, Rando was obviously involved and proving others were is not important enough for me. Hope my input was helpful, nonetheless. I'm moving on from this topic, so thanks and best wishes! :) 209.103.209.86 ( talk) 07:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
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209.103.209.86 ( talk) 20:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
There are also movie/tv sites provided that confirm the name of the dog which can't be disputed. They aren't blogs or social sites which are considered "unreliable sources". If the article doesn't contain all dogs contributing to the film, the section is subject to removal. 209.103.209.86 ( talk) 01:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
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After more research of the sources for Koton and Jerry Lee, I see that many of the sites use "Freebase" (such as AMCTV) or "Ranker"-type information. The movie sites, excluding the Netflix site, are also copying the same information about Koton. I think there was a consensus that Koton was a police officer dog who was also featured in the movie. Whether this is true or not (other than his police service), I don't think it's legitimate enough to include in the article either. To mention the fact that some "untrusted" sources claim Koton and/or a Jerry Lee (among extras) were in the movie, isn't important. Having discussed this in the talk page is enough. Besides the dog actor sites that mention Koton (and maybe the movie sites), I don't see any credible sources that would warrant including Koton either (as the dog acting and movie sites probably copied the same info from unsourced providers as well). The fact is though, other dog actors were used per the current citations provided, if nothing else as only stand-ins/doubles. Maybe one sentence devoted to that fact could be included? I do think the prior edit that was reverted contained more background history than the current entry. To that point, the Risk Management source no longer exists except in search (partial) and should be removed. The People Magazine and LA Time sources will suffice. Below I am listing the search sites mentioning Koton to show they are not as reliable as the sources currently shown within the article. Therefore, I am in agreement with the current editor's revert, but still feel the Risk Management source needs to be removed (not reliable nor is it needed) and that some mention of other dogs possibly being used (IE. Koton) should be briefly stated. There is no need to reply to my previous remarks, although I stand by the fact that an article can be created for a dog if someone wanted to and that the dispute process should have been done before reverting (which can create an edit war). Other than that, the reception statement was done in good faith. Thanks and best wishes to you all!
209.103.209.86 ( talk) 07:16, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
While I believe the reliable sources are being misinterpreted, they are also not being misrepresented as the article currently stands. The incisive inclusion of stand-ins for the pooch might confuse readers, but that is for the future. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 09:55, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Clearly there are conflicting reports about which dog/dogs played Jerry Lee. It could have been Koton (the police dog) playing “Rondo the Dog” and "Jerry Lee". Nevertheless, whether this was truly the dog actor shot in the line of duty, it's best to leave it out based on the extensive research done previously per this talk page (no consensus). Sources credit Rondo, Rando and Koton, etc. Per the film, leave it as Jerry Lee and the statement about him being played by various dogs in different scenes. Also, the actor who played a pimp is not important to include in the cast. Thank you! :) 74.62.92.20 ( talk) 07:15, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Two users have disrespectfully deleted the movie's full plot in return for the synopsis. I have seen other Wikipedia articles with full movie plots and even they are in low stream like K-9, yet it seems like everybody doesn't want the full plot on this page for some unknown reason. For those that have deleted the plot "just because" you are not helping in any way whatsoever and are simply just making the page boring. However with a really full film plot like most every article on Wikipedia, people can understand the film more rather than a synopsis, and if you're concerned about spoilers, it doesn't matter anyway because every article has a spoiler. The whole point of article editing is to make pages more enjoyable to look at while also keeping it as historically accurate as possible for the viewers to learn; not make them feel uninterested. Marino13 ( talk) 02:37, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
James Belushi's first name in the film is Michael.
According to the Kansas City Police department the only dog killed in action on November 18th, 1991 was a K-9 Officer by the name of Star [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:345:4380:1720:ACD8:D17A:C833:F816 ( talk) 21:38, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
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This is long, but worth the read to truly understand the facts about the dog(s) used in the film, and support that Koton is the main dog used in the film, along with Rando (I thought there was a possibility that there was a relation between the dogs, similar to Benji and/or Lassie dogs used, but I don't believe this to be the case).
Ok, after a lot of research, could it possibly be that Rando/Koton/Jerry Lee are the same dog with different names used throughout it's/his career or that they are different dogs used within protions of the movie, with one acting more than the others? I know I can't prove it on here, but originally being from Kansas City and seeing this movie when I was young(er) and it becoming my favorite movie ever, to the point I nearly memorized it, and seeing news-related stories about the dog(s) which can not be verified online, I am very familiar with this movie and for the most part the status of the dogs.
There have been several changes regarding "Jerry Lee". I think this should solve the problem as to "who/which" was the actual dog. There were three Jerry Lee's within this one movie. There are two different ones used in the sequels. It is likely that Koton was the initial actor/dog used either for training purposes or actually acting in scenes, but due to his death, replacements were used (ie. Rondo and/or Jerry Lee). According to one source used currently in the article, there were "backup" dogs used in the film as well:
On the set of K-9, a 1989 Jim Belushi movie, the veritable star of the film was Rando, a German Shepherd. “We actually insured the animal for twenty-five million dollars,” says Kingman, “in the event of a death, injury or sickness that caused an abandonment of the film. There were some backups, but Rando was the hero dog.” To make certain—were something to happen to Rando—that the backup dogs would be able to replace him in his remaining scenes, the dogs were separated in transit in order to diversify the risks of losing the film’s star character. [1]
I believe that some sources credited "Rando" as "Koton" and "Jerry Lee". Perhaps during the filming process, one dog named Jerry Lee was used within the credits, but Rando did most of the 'hero' work or perhaps main acting, and one of the backup dogs was Koton, who was the Kansas City Police K-9. They all were in the film, but to say that Jerry Lee is actually Rando and credited incorrectly, is wrong. And to say Koton was the only dog, who was the police officer dying in the line of duty in 1991, would also be incorrect. They were all apart of the filming, but Jim Belushi probably worked most with Rando. If you check the IMDB, Rando also played in a TV movie called "K-9". The only other explanation, although sources give credit to Koton as well, is that Rando and Koton are the same dog but called one or the other at different times/projects, with Jerry Lee being the movie character name provided for credit purposes.
Another source currently being used in the article states:
...the German shepherd Jerry Lee. Jerry Lee is the co-starring character in a film called "K-9," scheduled for release in April. Like the Rin Tin Tin stories, "K-9" was inspired by real-life dogs. The writing began when a restaurant owner who served K-9 officers became fascinated with their police dogs. [2]
So this is contrary to the fact that Rando is the "star". My contentions are that if Rando is the real dog called "Jerry Lee", that the other dogs (such as Koton) is one of the real-life K-9's who Jerry Lee was inspired by. Meaning, he was the real police dog that perhaps contributed to the filming, training, used as an example, etc.
And the third source in the article claims:
The search for Rando began about two years ago. "We looked at more than 40 dogs and didn't find the qualities we wanted," says Gail Mooring, Rando's owner and president of K-9 Paws, which provided technical advice for the movie. "The dog had to be very happy and have a lot of character, and, for reasons of cinematography, have a light face and the type of mask that goes around his eyebrows and the top of his head. American shepherds are bred mostly for dark pigment." Failing to find an American dog to fill the bill, Mooring's partner, Donn Yarnall, went to West Germany and bought four young shepherds for $10,000.
All four went to work with veteran animal trainer Karl Miller, who had just 12 weeks to prepare them for stardom. First he had to teach them to respond to commands in English. "In the third week," says Miller, "Rando showed us that he was, indeed, Jerry Lee. The typical dog knows 10 or 15 commands, but Rando has anywhere from 125 to 150 actions that he has performed at one time or another. Anything the scriptwriters dream up, Rando can do. He even comes as close to smiling as I think a dog will ever come."
Smiling and acting adorable aren't all Rando is called on to do though. "In the story," says Miller, "the dog has three different personalities. At times, he's just a slobbish, mischievous, self-willed animal. There are also times when he has to be a highly trained police dog. And then there are times in the script when he's a very noble, regal German shepherd. The one thing I couldn't train was the noble, regal part; the dog had to have that himself. And that's how Rando won the part." [3]
What this means is that there were more than one dogs used, such as Koton and Jerry Lee. In the process of filming, it's clear that Rando shined and that Rando became the lead (Jerry Lee) but that perhaps the others are still credited as working, contributing, training, etc. for the movie. Which is why sources show Koton and Jerry Lee as the actor as well. The above source also claims there are 'three personalities' that the dog shows, and perhaps at different times, Jerry Lee and Koton were used as substitutes for various scenes. It is clear that Koton was a real-life police dog who died in the line of duty and contributed to the movie. After multiple searches and perhaps uses of the dogs for scenes in the movie, I think they settled with Rando as the main contributing dog. But this shouldn't discredit the others. And maybe Jerry Lee didn't end up doing most of the film, but he is who was used in the credits. ---- BEFORE I HAVE SAVED THIS, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT KOTON IS THE MAIN DOG, AND RANDO WAS AN EXTRA THAT SOME REPORTS/MEDIA SHOWS AS THE ACTUAL ACTING DOG. SEE BELOW (THE END):
Sources regarding Koton being in the movie and/or later killed in action as a police dog: [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] (via "oldhollywoodtrailers") [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] + more! (I realize that many sites/sources overlap and use the same information/text, but these mostly seem to be different/original verifications.)
This source claims KOTON is the dog starring as Jerry Lee and Rondo the Dog from the TV film, K-9. This may mean that Koton is the only dog, as Jerry Lee in this "K-9" feature film and as Rondo the Dog in the "K-9" television film? [23] ---- AS I EDIT THIS BEFORE SENDING, I'VE COME TO THE KNOWLDGE THAT KOTON AND RANDO ARE CREDITED AS PLAYING JERRY LEE.
Koton was a real police K-9 dog that was used by the Kansas City (MO) police department paired up with Officer Patterson. Koton was responsible for over 24 felony arrests during his career as a K-9 officer. In October 1991, Koton found 10 kilos of cocaine worth an estimated $1.2 million. Unfortunately, less than a month later (Nov 18, 1991) Koton was shot and killed while attempting to apprehend a suspect in the murder of a police officer. [24]
Additional sources that Rando was in the movie: [25] [26] (this was once Koton but changed later on IMDB due to this very "debate" I'm sure) [27] [28] [29] [30]
Sources from the article (removed) regarding Rando being "the only" dog in the film: [1] [2] [3]
Sources regarding Jerry Lee being the actual dog or "character name" in the movie: [31] (same as above) [32] (same as above which mentions the dog as actor Rando AND Jerry Lee) [33] [34] [35]
I found more [reliable] sources claiming Koton was the actual dog in the movie, which is what the article first claimed. Not sure who changed Koton to Rando on IMDB, but it is not correct. Koton plays Rondo and Jerry Lee, perhaps. It's confusing and not sure any source is the "authority". Nonetheless, there are too many sources proving Koton was the police dog killed, not Rando. [36] (For easy reference and to possibly include portions of it back into the article):
The dog credited in the part is Koton, a real-life police dog from the Kansas City, Missouri police department. [4]
According to IMDb, Jerry Lee was played by a real-life police dog named Koton from the Kansas City, Missouri police department. [5]
(Koton aka Jerry Lee was a real Kansas City, Missouri police dog. On November 18, 1991, he was shot and killed apprehending a suspect in the attempted murder of a police officer. Ten days before his death, Koton found ten kilos of cocaine worth more than 1.2 million dollars.) [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] (These are in addition to the above sources used in the original edits about Koton that were removed but correct, and many are "blogged" reports of Koton's death.) Deleted Koton page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.html?curid=7806891
Keep in mind that media/sources may have claimed the name of the dog at a specific time the movie was in production or during release based on "old" facts/knowledge, just like some articles may claim so-and-so is working on a project titled one thing, but when it comes out, it's another name and possibly another person/actor/artist, and the article/source/publication/stats/release/report is not updated to reflect the changes. This happens all the time. Once more, they all were probably (most likely and almost guaranteed) involved in the movie durring different portions of it, one just getting more recogniton than the other, and different people reporting who the dog really was (the actual dog's name being reported as one or the other by production staff to the "media").
One of the sources, to support it is Rando playing Jerry Lee, also states that Belushi said "the first Jerry Lee"... this could mean the first of the "K-9" movies, or first used of the three for the first film. Hard to say, but they all have to have an involvment in it, because too many sources reflect this fact. These two sources state Koton plays Jerry Lee (as Jerry Lee), which would probably mean there was a stand-in dog for the actual Jerry Lee dog doing some of the stunts, close-ups, etc. which is why the credits say "Jerry Lee as himself" I believe: [44] [45]
All of this to say that I think the article needs to include all three as being used to film/produce the movie; Jerry Lee, Koton and Rando. The above sources I provided support this notion, and I may update it futher after more discussion. Please leave this within the talk page for this purpose. FYI: There used to be an Wiki article for Koton, but it no longer exists. Even if he wasn't the dog in the movie, the article mentioned his service and death as a real K-9 officer. The other dogs used for the sequels are correct, so this is just an issue with the first "K-9" movie. I hope this clears things up? Thank you and have a great day!
P.S. It is likely that "Jerry Lee" was used to protect the actual police dog, Koton. Stating Jerry Lee as Jerry Lee in the credits, might have kept his identity private for legal/criminal purposes, instead of billing him as Koton. Then once he died in the line of duty, the "truth" came out about who he was, and Rando was probably a "stand-in". Also, edits were made and removed in the past. Let's discuss first before being sure "you/we" have the right answer. My conclusion is, again, that they all three contributed to the film and the article should therefore reflect this. 64.134.54.102 ( talk) 11:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Character: Jerry Lee
Role: Det. Mike Dooley’s (James Belushi) partner. Was chosen from the K-9 dogs unit training facility. Jerry Lee destroyed Dooley’s car (ripped out the radio), his home, relationships and everything else. There’s a famous scene in which Dooley puts Jerry Lee in a car wash machine.
Breed: German Shepherd Dog
Played by: Koton & Rando
Info: Kotton was a real police dog from the city of Kansas Missouri. He was shot by a suspect in killing a police officer, and died on 18/11/1991, Ten days earlier Kotton found 10 kilograms of cocaine worth 1.2 million dollar. Rando was one of three German shepherd dogs brought from Germany for the film, the other two were doubles. The dogs understood only commands in German and had to learn English.
(Some of these ideas may conflict, as I was typing this up over a course of hours while doing research and never saved the original post, just kept adding to it. So it will appear as just one topic, with the conclusion/resolution at the end. I also tried to play "devil's advocate" for each dog, as if I was a different person arguing the claim, until it made sense that two dogs play Jerry Lee.) 64.134.54.102 ( talk) 11:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
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I am looking at the sources on this page and finding only 3 that qualify as reliable: Risk Management, The Los Angeles Times (newspaper); and People (magazine). Everything else fails reliability: user-generated, blogs, commercial sites, duplicates of IMDb (which is user-generested), duplicates of Wikipedia(!). The Koton article here on WP was deleted due to "no reliable sources for Koton's existence...".
Taking the three that pass muster:
Finally, no original research. We have to go by what the reliable sources say, and the reliable ones say Rando played Jerry Lee. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 06:19, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
See my response/update below. Your sources are "better", although it could be that the other dog(s) were still used as Jerry Lee in supporting roles or stunts (although nothing I can find claims this via the Internet), as at least one of the sites you provided state there were extras. As far as I'm concerned, Rando was obviously involved and proving others were is not important enough for me. Hope my input was helpful, nonetheless. I'm moving on from this topic, so thanks and best wishes! :) 209.103.209.86 ( talk) 07:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
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209.103.209.86 ( talk) 20:48, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
There are also movie/tv sites provided that confirm the name of the dog which can't be disputed. They aren't blogs or social sites which are considered "unreliable sources". If the article doesn't contain all dogs contributing to the film, the section is subject to removal. 209.103.209.86 ( talk) 01:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
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After more research of the sources for Koton and Jerry Lee, I see that many of the sites use "Freebase" (such as AMCTV) or "Ranker"-type information. The movie sites, excluding the Netflix site, are also copying the same information about Koton. I think there was a consensus that Koton was a police officer dog who was also featured in the movie. Whether this is true or not (other than his police service), I don't think it's legitimate enough to include in the article either. To mention the fact that some "untrusted" sources claim Koton and/or a Jerry Lee (among extras) were in the movie, isn't important. Having discussed this in the talk page is enough. Besides the dog actor sites that mention Koton (and maybe the movie sites), I don't see any credible sources that would warrant including Koton either (as the dog acting and movie sites probably copied the same info from unsourced providers as well). The fact is though, other dog actors were used per the current citations provided, if nothing else as only stand-ins/doubles. Maybe one sentence devoted to that fact could be included? I do think the prior edit that was reverted contained more background history than the current entry. To that point, the Risk Management source no longer exists except in search (partial) and should be removed. The People Magazine and LA Time sources will suffice. Below I am listing the search sites mentioning Koton to show they are not as reliable as the sources currently shown within the article. Therefore, I am in agreement with the current editor's revert, but still feel the Risk Management source needs to be removed (not reliable nor is it needed) and that some mention of other dogs possibly being used (IE. Koton) should be briefly stated. There is no need to reply to my previous remarks, although I stand by the fact that an article can be created for a dog if someone wanted to and that the dispute process should have been done before reverting (which can create an edit war). Other than that, the reception statement was done in good faith. Thanks and best wishes to you all!
209.103.209.86 ( talk) 07:16, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
While I believe the reliable sources are being misinterpreted, they are also not being misrepresented as the article currently stands. The incisive inclusion of stand-ins for the pooch might confuse readers, but that is for the future. 71.234.215.133 ( talk) 09:55, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Clearly there are conflicting reports about which dog/dogs played Jerry Lee. It could have been Koton (the police dog) playing “Rondo the Dog” and "Jerry Lee". Nevertheless, whether this was truly the dog actor shot in the line of duty, it's best to leave it out based on the extensive research done previously per this talk page (no consensus). Sources credit Rondo, Rando and Koton, etc. Per the film, leave it as Jerry Lee and the statement about him being played by various dogs in different scenes. Also, the actor who played a pimp is not important to include in the cast. Thank you! :) 74.62.92.20 ( talk) 07:15, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Two users have disrespectfully deleted the movie's full plot in return for the synopsis. I have seen other Wikipedia articles with full movie plots and even they are in low stream like K-9, yet it seems like everybody doesn't want the full plot on this page for some unknown reason. For those that have deleted the plot "just because" you are not helping in any way whatsoever and are simply just making the page boring. However with a really full film plot like most every article on Wikipedia, people can understand the film more rather than a synopsis, and if you're concerned about spoilers, it doesn't matter anyway because every article has a spoiler. The whole point of article editing is to make pages more enjoyable to look at while also keeping it as historically accurate as possible for the viewers to learn; not make them feel uninterested. Marino13 ( talk) 02:37, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
James Belushi's first name in the film is Michael.
According to the Kansas City Police department the only dog killed in action on November 18th, 1991 was a K-9 Officer by the name of Star [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:345:4380:1720:ACD8:D17A:C833:F816 ( talk) 21:38, 4 April 2021 (UTC)