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This article was nominated for deletion on 16 March 2022. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
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"Between October 1947 and October 1948, about 100,000 Germans were forcibly moved to Germany."
Unfortunately the source isn't easily accessible, however, R.M. Douglas ( https://www.google.de/books/edition/Orderly_and_Humane/DeOzUL-HXb0C?hl=de&gbpv=1, no page number provided, please search for "October 1947") gives the exact same number for the same period but refers to the region and not just the city of Königsberg. Could somebody check what Stefan Berger actually writes?
The same problem occurs when talking about people of Lithuanian background. The source clearly refers to the whole Kaliningrad oblast and not just the city.("In the region that became part of the Soviet Union, there was only a very small number of people with some kind of Lithuanian background.") As this article is about the City, we should stick to the specific numbers for the City of Königsberg/Kaliningrad. HerkusMonte ( talk) 08:23, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
In re: the recent addition, Bernhard Fisch and Marina Klemeševa, "Zum Schicksal der Deutschen in Königsberg 1945-1948 Zeitschrift für Ostmitteleuropa-Forschung Bd. 44 Nr. 3, 1995, a source that's also part of the diff, write (assuming my translation is correct):
It appears that Kossert's numbers are not the agreed upon numbers in recent historiography. There's certainly a discrepancy. In general, there seems to be a willingness to use Fisch and Klemeševa for certain aspects (i.e. nutritional estimates), but not for others (i.e. initial numbers of residents). -- K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:47, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
So the German version of this Article includes "(niederpreußisch Keenigsbarg)", or the Lower Prussian name being Keenigsbarg. However, on this version that information was deleted for lack of a source. Which one is it? Does the information need to be deleted too on the German version or will it be added here? Argacyan ( talk) 20:30, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
The green regional map that appears with this article is 99% inadequate because it contains no lettering whatsoever. Which country is which is left for the poor visitor to guess. This is beneath the standard that is expected of Wikipedia content. I ask, therefore, that either the existing useless map be revised or that it be replaced with one that has meaning. LarryWiki115 ( talk) 19:13, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Would be nice to add the flag and coat of arms of Königsberg in the infobox, though I don't know how to do this here. Synotia ( talk) 15:03, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
"....From the thirteenth to the twentieth centuries on, the inhabitants spoke predominantly German, although the city also had a profound influence upon the Lithuanian and Polish cultures..."
The inhabitants didn't just "spoke predominantly German". They were Germans!
This way it sounds like the people of Königsberg had some special national, not German identity. I mean it points out the Polish and Lithuanian influx. But why point out linguistics, instead of nationality.
It would be worth it to point it out, if they spoke a different language but German. KingOfRay ( talk) 08:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Königsberg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 16 March 2022. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
"Between October 1947 and October 1948, about 100,000 Germans were forcibly moved to Germany."
Unfortunately the source isn't easily accessible, however, R.M. Douglas ( https://www.google.de/books/edition/Orderly_and_Humane/DeOzUL-HXb0C?hl=de&gbpv=1, no page number provided, please search for "October 1947") gives the exact same number for the same period but refers to the region and not just the city of Königsberg. Could somebody check what Stefan Berger actually writes?
The same problem occurs when talking about people of Lithuanian background. The source clearly refers to the whole Kaliningrad oblast and not just the city.("In the region that became part of the Soviet Union, there was only a very small number of people with some kind of Lithuanian background.") As this article is about the City, we should stick to the specific numbers for the City of Königsberg/Kaliningrad. HerkusMonte ( talk) 08:23, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
In re: the recent addition, Bernhard Fisch and Marina Klemeševa, "Zum Schicksal der Deutschen in Königsberg 1945-1948 Zeitschrift für Ostmitteleuropa-Forschung Bd. 44 Nr. 3, 1995, a source that's also part of the diff, write (assuming my translation is correct):
It appears that Kossert's numbers are not the agreed upon numbers in recent historiography. There's certainly a discrepancy. In general, there seems to be a willingness to use Fisch and Klemeševa for certain aspects (i.e. nutritional estimates), but not for others (i.e. initial numbers of residents). -- K.e.coffman ( talk) 01:47, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
So the German version of this Article includes "(niederpreußisch Keenigsbarg)", or the Lower Prussian name being Keenigsbarg. However, on this version that information was deleted for lack of a source. Which one is it? Does the information need to be deleted too on the German version or will it be added here? Argacyan ( talk) 20:30, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
The green regional map that appears with this article is 99% inadequate because it contains no lettering whatsoever. Which country is which is left for the poor visitor to guess. This is beneath the standard that is expected of Wikipedia content. I ask, therefore, that either the existing useless map be revised or that it be replaced with one that has meaning. LarryWiki115 ( talk) 19:13, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
Would be nice to add the flag and coat of arms of Königsberg in the infobox, though I don't know how to do this here. Synotia ( talk) 15:03, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
"....From the thirteenth to the twentieth centuries on, the inhabitants spoke predominantly German, although the city also had a profound influence upon the Lithuanian and Polish cultures..."
The inhabitants didn't just "spoke predominantly German". They were Germans!
This way it sounds like the people of Königsberg had some special national, not German identity. I mean it points out the Polish and Lithuanian influx. But why point out linguistics, instead of nationality.
It would be worth it to point it out, if they spoke a different language but German. KingOfRay ( talk) 08:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)