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I think this article should be AfD'd; this guy's only claim to notability seems to be his crusade against a scholar, which has resulted in a grand total of one article, whose claims were roundly disputed by commentators. Are we going to have a WP article for every single person who publishes an article? csloat ( talk) 23:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I support the deletion of this article because this "biography" is bloated and falsified and because it reads like a public relations article for the subject. There are unverified statements. He was known a decade ago for one thing only-- his personal attacks on Edward Said. Skywriter ( talk) 10:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Not true. He has published widely in respected publications on a wide variety of international law subjects over the past decade. he may not be as "famous" as Edward Said, but most academics are not famous. David Kessler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.169.180.52 ( talk) 13:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Justus Weiner has published in law publications the last 30 years, is one of the most authoritative experts on Christian rights in the West Bank, Gaza and Arab countries. I don't think there's an argument over whether he should have a Wikipedia entry or not. 7:12GM+2, Sept. 6 2012. - Magnusmarkussen
I have deleted the claim that Weiner was "former Israeli security official". There is a "source" that says so, but it is not an RS for this purpose and they do not indicate 1) what security official means (did he work for the intelligence agencies, for the ministry of defense?) 2) what are they basing it on. Every other source describes wEiner as a former employee of the Israeli Ministry of Justice. Mashkin ( talk) 11:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a biography of a living person. Unfortunately this person is known mostly for one controversial article written 10 years ago, an attack on a famous person.
The claim that the article was "famous" because it was it was cited in several right-leaning opinion pages is beyond the pale.
Weiner has had his 15 seconds of fame for a controversial article in a small circulation periodical. To make a federal case of this article and to make it the explanation for his entire life is folly. I concur with the suggestion made earlier on this page that this person is unworthy of an article on Wikipedia. He just has not accomplished much, and what he is know for is disputed.
It is wrong to use what is supposed to be a biography to pound another person and that is the substance of this article, and as it now reads. Skywriter ( talk) 13:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
If anyone wants to continue to insist that the decade-old article in the low-circulation magazine has any validity, please address the critique here. This analysis is detailed. It specifically addresses the article of which Weiner received a moment's worth of fame in right-leaning opinion pages, and it points out where he was both wrong and dishonest. Skywriter ( talk) 14:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
The vote is six to delete and three to keep with one more "weak keep." Someone decided this is not consensus. What is consensus on Wikipedia? Does anyone know. Skywriter ( talk) 00:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The wholesale revert of this article today to an old version, with many errors of fact and which ignore many small edits made over the last few days, is unacceptable. I hope the person who made that massive revert will come to this page to discuss each and every edit that was reverted. There were many. The intent was to change the tone of the article and to make it factual and neutral; the draft that was reverted was a move in the direction of resolving some of the issues with this article. Skywriter ( talk) 21:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I see that csloat has brought back a version that contains biographical material. This is useful. I have taken out the subject's claims to bar association membership because public documents are at odds with the unsourced claims that were in earlier versions of this article. The entire section on the Commentary article needs to be reworked. I was out of time and could not spend more time with this. The current version continues to be choppy and to present the dispute unfairly. I concur with clsoat's comment that this article needs much work. Skywriter ( talk) 21:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Please identify what you believe to be BLP violation, mashkin. The version to which you reverted is not neutral and shows the man Weiner smeared in the worst possible light, using his weakest arguments instead of his direct replies to Weiner's allegations.
Given the number of times you have reverted edits to this article, I understand you prefer the version that makes Weiner a hero and Said a slime bag. Still, that is not a neutral viewpoint, does not fairly reflect the debate around the article, and excludes relevant viewpoints.
I am perplexed why you insist on not calling a law degree a law degree. Is there a style rule that suggests plain language? You have reverted to Latin five or more times, and frankly, this has become tiresome. Please explain why plain English is not good enough. Please cite Wikipedia source showing that your use of the Latin is preferred usage.
By the way, I find it reprehensible that anyone would exclude the biographical information that I took pains to incorporate yesterday, the fact that Weiner was Boston-born, the year of his birth, and other facts drawn from cited sources. This is supposed to be a neutral article about a live person. So far I see nothing but axe-grinding in these reverts and a wholesale lack of proper referencing, and a pathetic lack of biographical detail. What little detail there is, you reverted. Please explain why you removed basic biographical detail, among other well-sourced facts. Thank you. Skywriter ( talk) 22:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
One editor has chosen edit warring over talk page discussion. Skywriter ( talk) 22:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Justus Reid Weiner a human rights lawyer and a scholar at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. [1] A former official of the Israeli Ministry of Justice, Weiner garnered some fame from a 1999 Commentary article which suggested that Palestinian intellectual Edward Said has misled the public about his past.[2] Said accused Weiner as trying to "make a name for himself by attacking a better known person's reputation"
This draft is misleading and dishonest. Biographical articles begin with biographical information, such as age, place of birth etc. This one, reverted to this early version for the fourth time today, skips over the basic bio info and jumps right into controversy putting it forward in a non-neutral manner. garnered some fame is not neutral. Why not infamy? That's relevant too. He was accused of lying about Said. Why isn't that in the lead? On equal footing. Oh why be neutral? Or fair? Oh yes, the reader does get the impression the article favors Weiner in this dispute and that the attacks on Said are fair and well-stated. Let's leave out all the errors of fact. And the prejudice. And world view. To include errors of fact with garnering fame suggests that what Weiner did was applauded by all.
Said accused Weiner of trying to "make a name for himself by attacking a better known person's reputation" is a cheap shot at Said who said this off the cuff but then replied in detail to the specifics of what Weiner alleged. Therefore this too is dishonest, and favors Weiner's attack on Said. Where is the fairness? Where is neutrality? Oh, I get it. The point is for this article to be neither neutral nor fair. The point is to attack Said by any and all means, the truth of the matter be damned.
Also dishonest and not neutral is leaving out the relevant fact that Said and more than five well-known persons were critical of Weiner's attack on Said, and this is not reflected in the garnered fame sentence. Why be even-handed when there are axes to grind? This article in fact takes up the axe that Weiner is grinding-- there is no mistaking that a good part of his attack on Said is that his family had money. Several of Weiner's critics pointed out that Weiner's fixation on the Said family's earned wealth was irrelevant to the article's central point. Skywriter ( talk) 23:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
During the edit-warring, someone has undone uncontroversial edits of mine which merged the duplicated mention of Charles Lane's rejection of Weiner's manuscript when Weiner refused to look at the galley proofs of Said's memoir. Can whoever removed it pelase reinstate my changes?-- Peter cohen ( talk) 21:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, Peter, yesterday you wholesale reverted my non-controversial intermediate edits, all of which are now reinstated. Yes, that's hard work! I noticed you wholesale reverted only once while someone else is cursed with a knee-jerk repetitious revert reaction. (That's KJ-RRR). Having to reinstate non-controversial edits is a price of mindless edit warring. Frustrating and time-wasting, isn't it? Someone is also hiding behind the claim of BLP to revert what does not suit his POV. Imagine! Skywriter ( talk) 22:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a biography of a living person, not an excuse for an extended section on one article the subject wrote. Please explain why this section should not be edited for length to a reasonable size? Thank you. Skywriter ( talk) 20:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Weiner's article was not "riddled with error." There were a few minor errors in a very long article. But this is offset by the major falsehoods of Said that Weiner exposed, such as (1) Said claiming he was driven out of Talbieh (and Palestine) by a sound truck incident that actually occurred three months after he left; (2) Said claiming that Martin Buber lived in the house after the Said's were "expelled" when in fact he lived in a section he rented well before the alleged expulsion and was himself expelled when Said's aunt broke the lease on grounds of "need" :(3) Said claiming that he lived his early years in Palestine when in fact he was a resident of Cairo; (4) Said claiming that his father co-owned the house when the land registry records prove otherwise (Said's excuse about unofficial co-ownership is unproven and unverifiable). Weiner's claims are supported by phone directories, land registry records, contemporary newspaper articles, court transcripts and the dispatches of the British High Commissioner to Palestine - hardly "biased sources." User:Dpakessler 17:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.64.200.6 ( talk)
Don't know what that means. Do what you think best. Skywriter ( talk) 17:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
nishkid, one can find "human rights" 8 times in the article: 1) in the context that while he worked for the Israeli Ministry of Justice he investigated claims BROUGHT BY human rights groups (and media organizations) about Israeli conduct toward Palestinians; which is everything but human rights work. 2) that he discussed human rights of christian palestinians as a journalist; 3) that he styles HIMSELF a "human rights lawyer"; 4) his claim that someone urged him to investigate human rights abuses; 5) as description of israel shahak; 6) in the title of an article of him at the JCPA website; 7) in the title of an article of him in a law journal; 8) finally, the category...i'm still waiting for an hint that he's a human rights activist (and that the category is justified). oh, by the way, it's amazing that non-jewish americans are entitled to immigrate to israel and work for a ministry there.-- Severino ( talk) 14:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Subject is known for one event only and nothing else. Article has been tagged since last year with no activity. If you disagree, please show eactly why subject is notable for anything else, using reliable sources. Thanks, IronDuke. Skywriter ( talk) 00:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
That he's written a few articles is beside the point. Lots of people have. The question is whether scholarly sources or otherwise reliable publications have discussed him and his contributions and as I am sure, you can assure yourself, no one has. A mere listing of what he's written counts for nothing. What confuses me is that you are willing to hang last year's dispute tag on this article and allow it to continue indefinitely without making one single change in the article that changes anyone's mind as to its notability. If you look at the poll taken last year, most people who weighed in questioned its notability. That was not my argument at the time though now I see the wisdom of that position. This guy is known for one thing and one thing only, and he was known in only one conservative and several liberal publications. Other than that, no one knows or cares who he is because he's not notable. The stale stuff you reverted to is not notable. If you like this guy so much, why don't you show us, not tell us what he's notable for, aside from this one event. What follows is Wikipedia policy that applies in this case. Skywriter ( talk) 01:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
No, I don't want the disputed tag taken off this deeply troubled article. I edited it to what I think it is worth. You reverted to last year's tags. The revert means that the trouble with the article last year is again the trouble with the article this year.
Last year's vote was six to delete, two to keep, and one "weak keep." One of the six keeps was a delete that was reversed based on the desire not to merge the he said/she saids with the Said bio.
As to the evidence you present, two footnotes in 30 years in an obscure book do not equal notability. Is that all you've got? Skywriter ( talk) 02:01, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The two of you seem to be misunderstanding each other's arguments completely. But in spite of that some interesting questions are raised here -- it is possible that it is time to take this to AfD again to see if a more rigorous discussion of the issues can be had. I'm still not sure anything about this person is notable, but certainly if he is notable it is only for the Said attacks, not for an article in the Virginia law review. csloat ( talk) 00:41, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I have taken out the reference to Weiner being hired (which was outside the quotes around Said's reply). It is not supported by any evidence and is potentially libelous. There is no evidence that he wrote the article on anything other than his own initiative. The onus is on those who contend otherwise to present theirevidence. A paraphrase (or even a quote) of Said is not evidence. WHO hired him? When did they hire him? How much did they hire him for? Where is the evidence for the answers to those questions? Furthermore, it is important to remember that libel laws apply.
It may be necessary to clean up the quote to make it link up properly. But leaving in an unsubstantiated allegation that Weiner was "hired" by others would be legally problematical as well as lacking in academic rigour.
the article reflects the image cultivation of weiner and his camp and is based on highly biased "sources" (JCPA, frontpagemag,...) which are to be attributed to this camp. revision, taking into account more objective views, absolutely essential!-- Severino ( talk) 12:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to put to bed the notion that Weiner is not an international lawyer of some reputation; and that his notability only concerns the one thing he wrote about Ed Said. The following are just a few of the citations that other writers and scholars have made of his work that have zero to do with Ed Said. More references available upon request!
Miamosa ( talk) 05:42, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea how much of Weiner's story hold's water, but this article doesn't tell me. But ss it stands, this article is pure propaganda, and relies on sources of dubious reputation, such as Israel Shahak and Alexander Cockburn. The editors appear to believe that Israel is the devil and that Israelis are demons. This point of view might be useful on the op-ed pages of the Guardian, but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia. I suggest that these obsessive partisan editors might take some time off and insult, perhaps, Finns or Canadians for a while and allow serious scholars a chance to produce something useful. 68.5.46.91 ( talk) 05:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Weiner's article did not contain any fabrications, Severino. If it did, some one would be able to name one. David Kessler (author) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.85.143 ( talk) 15:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
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![]() | This article was nominated for
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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I think this article should be AfD'd; this guy's only claim to notability seems to be his crusade against a scholar, which has resulted in a grand total of one article, whose claims were roundly disputed by commentators. Are we going to have a WP article for every single person who publishes an article? csloat ( talk) 23:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
I support the deletion of this article because this "biography" is bloated and falsified and because it reads like a public relations article for the subject. There are unverified statements. He was known a decade ago for one thing only-- his personal attacks on Edward Said. Skywriter ( talk) 10:42, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
Not true. He has published widely in respected publications on a wide variety of international law subjects over the past decade. he may not be as "famous" as Edward Said, but most academics are not famous. David Kessler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.169.180.52 ( talk) 13:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Justus Weiner has published in law publications the last 30 years, is one of the most authoritative experts on Christian rights in the West Bank, Gaza and Arab countries. I don't think there's an argument over whether he should have a Wikipedia entry or not. 7:12GM+2, Sept. 6 2012. - Magnusmarkussen
I have deleted the claim that Weiner was "former Israeli security official". There is a "source" that says so, but it is not an RS for this purpose and they do not indicate 1) what security official means (did he work for the intelligence agencies, for the ministry of defense?) 2) what are they basing it on. Every other source describes wEiner as a former employee of the Israeli Ministry of Justice. Mashkin ( talk) 11:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a biography of a living person. Unfortunately this person is known mostly for one controversial article written 10 years ago, an attack on a famous person.
The claim that the article was "famous" because it was it was cited in several right-leaning opinion pages is beyond the pale.
Weiner has had his 15 seconds of fame for a controversial article in a small circulation periodical. To make a federal case of this article and to make it the explanation for his entire life is folly. I concur with the suggestion made earlier on this page that this person is unworthy of an article on Wikipedia. He just has not accomplished much, and what he is know for is disputed.
It is wrong to use what is supposed to be a biography to pound another person and that is the substance of this article, and as it now reads. Skywriter ( talk) 13:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
If anyone wants to continue to insist that the decade-old article in the low-circulation magazine has any validity, please address the critique here. This analysis is detailed. It specifically addresses the article of which Weiner received a moment's worth of fame in right-leaning opinion pages, and it points out where he was both wrong and dishonest. Skywriter ( talk) 14:05, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
The vote is six to delete and three to keep with one more "weak keep." Someone decided this is not consensus. What is consensus on Wikipedia? Does anyone know. Skywriter ( talk) 00:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The wholesale revert of this article today to an old version, with many errors of fact and which ignore many small edits made over the last few days, is unacceptable. I hope the person who made that massive revert will come to this page to discuss each and every edit that was reverted. There were many. The intent was to change the tone of the article and to make it factual and neutral; the draft that was reverted was a move in the direction of resolving some of the issues with this article. Skywriter ( talk) 21:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I see that csloat has brought back a version that contains biographical material. This is useful. I have taken out the subject's claims to bar association membership because public documents are at odds with the unsourced claims that were in earlier versions of this article. The entire section on the Commentary article needs to be reworked. I was out of time and could not spend more time with this. The current version continues to be choppy and to present the dispute unfairly. I concur with clsoat's comment that this article needs much work. Skywriter ( talk) 21:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Please identify what you believe to be BLP violation, mashkin. The version to which you reverted is not neutral and shows the man Weiner smeared in the worst possible light, using his weakest arguments instead of his direct replies to Weiner's allegations.
Given the number of times you have reverted edits to this article, I understand you prefer the version that makes Weiner a hero and Said a slime bag. Still, that is not a neutral viewpoint, does not fairly reflect the debate around the article, and excludes relevant viewpoints.
I am perplexed why you insist on not calling a law degree a law degree. Is there a style rule that suggests plain language? You have reverted to Latin five or more times, and frankly, this has become tiresome. Please explain why plain English is not good enough. Please cite Wikipedia source showing that your use of the Latin is preferred usage.
By the way, I find it reprehensible that anyone would exclude the biographical information that I took pains to incorporate yesterday, the fact that Weiner was Boston-born, the year of his birth, and other facts drawn from cited sources. This is supposed to be a neutral article about a live person. So far I see nothing but axe-grinding in these reverts and a wholesale lack of proper referencing, and a pathetic lack of biographical detail. What little detail there is, you reverted. Please explain why you removed basic biographical detail, among other well-sourced facts. Thank you. Skywriter ( talk) 22:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
One editor has chosen edit warring over talk page discussion. Skywriter ( talk) 22:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Justus Reid Weiner a human rights lawyer and a scholar at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. [1] A former official of the Israeli Ministry of Justice, Weiner garnered some fame from a 1999 Commentary article which suggested that Palestinian intellectual Edward Said has misled the public about his past.[2] Said accused Weiner as trying to "make a name for himself by attacking a better known person's reputation"
This draft is misleading and dishonest. Biographical articles begin with biographical information, such as age, place of birth etc. This one, reverted to this early version for the fourth time today, skips over the basic bio info and jumps right into controversy putting it forward in a non-neutral manner. garnered some fame is not neutral. Why not infamy? That's relevant too. He was accused of lying about Said. Why isn't that in the lead? On equal footing. Oh why be neutral? Or fair? Oh yes, the reader does get the impression the article favors Weiner in this dispute and that the attacks on Said are fair and well-stated. Let's leave out all the errors of fact. And the prejudice. And world view. To include errors of fact with garnering fame suggests that what Weiner did was applauded by all.
Said accused Weiner of trying to "make a name for himself by attacking a better known person's reputation" is a cheap shot at Said who said this off the cuff but then replied in detail to the specifics of what Weiner alleged. Therefore this too is dishonest, and favors Weiner's attack on Said. Where is the fairness? Where is neutrality? Oh, I get it. The point is for this article to be neither neutral nor fair. The point is to attack Said by any and all means, the truth of the matter be damned.
Also dishonest and not neutral is leaving out the relevant fact that Said and more than five well-known persons were critical of Weiner's attack on Said, and this is not reflected in the garnered fame sentence. Why be even-handed when there are axes to grind? This article in fact takes up the axe that Weiner is grinding-- there is no mistaking that a good part of his attack on Said is that his family had money. Several of Weiner's critics pointed out that Weiner's fixation on the Said family's earned wealth was irrelevant to the article's central point. Skywriter ( talk) 23:42, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
During the edit-warring, someone has undone uncontroversial edits of mine which merged the duplicated mention of Charles Lane's rejection of Weiner's manuscript when Weiner refused to look at the galley proofs of Said's memoir. Can whoever removed it pelase reinstate my changes?-- Peter cohen ( talk) 21:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, Peter, yesterday you wholesale reverted my non-controversial intermediate edits, all of which are now reinstated. Yes, that's hard work! I noticed you wholesale reverted only once while someone else is cursed with a knee-jerk repetitious revert reaction. (That's KJ-RRR). Having to reinstate non-controversial edits is a price of mindless edit warring. Frustrating and time-wasting, isn't it? Someone is also hiding behind the claim of BLP to revert what does not suit his POV. Imagine! Skywriter ( talk) 22:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a biography of a living person, not an excuse for an extended section on one article the subject wrote. Please explain why this section should not be edited for length to a reasonable size? Thank you. Skywriter ( talk) 20:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Weiner's article was not "riddled with error." There were a few minor errors in a very long article. But this is offset by the major falsehoods of Said that Weiner exposed, such as (1) Said claiming he was driven out of Talbieh (and Palestine) by a sound truck incident that actually occurred three months after he left; (2) Said claiming that Martin Buber lived in the house after the Said's were "expelled" when in fact he lived in a section he rented well before the alleged expulsion and was himself expelled when Said's aunt broke the lease on grounds of "need" :(3) Said claiming that he lived his early years in Palestine when in fact he was a resident of Cairo; (4) Said claiming that his father co-owned the house when the land registry records prove otherwise (Said's excuse about unofficial co-ownership is unproven and unverifiable). Weiner's claims are supported by phone directories, land registry records, contemporary newspaper articles, court transcripts and the dispatches of the British High Commissioner to Palestine - hardly "biased sources." User:Dpakessler 17:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.64.200.6 ( talk)
Don't know what that means. Do what you think best. Skywriter ( talk) 17:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
nishkid, one can find "human rights" 8 times in the article: 1) in the context that while he worked for the Israeli Ministry of Justice he investigated claims BROUGHT BY human rights groups (and media organizations) about Israeli conduct toward Palestinians; which is everything but human rights work. 2) that he discussed human rights of christian palestinians as a journalist; 3) that he styles HIMSELF a "human rights lawyer"; 4) his claim that someone urged him to investigate human rights abuses; 5) as description of israel shahak; 6) in the title of an article of him at the JCPA website; 7) in the title of an article of him in a law journal; 8) finally, the category...i'm still waiting for an hint that he's a human rights activist (and that the category is justified). oh, by the way, it's amazing that non-jewish americans are entitled to immigrate to israel and work for a ministry there.-- Severino ( talk) 14:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Subject is known for one event only and nothing else. Article has been tagged since last year with no activity. If you disagree, please show eactly why subject is notable for anything else, using reliable sources. Thanks, IronDuke. Skywriter ( talk) 00:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
That he's written a few articles is beside the point. Lots of people have. The question is whether scholarly sources or otherwise reliable publications have discussed him and his contributions and as I am sure, you can assure yourself, no one has. A mere listing of what he's written counts for nothing. What confuses me is that you are willing to hang last year's dispute tag on this article and allow it to continue indefinitely without making one single change in the article that changes anyone's mind as to its notability. If you look at the poll taken last year, most people who weighed in questioned its notability. That was not my argument at the time though now I see the wisdom of that position. This guy is known for one thing and one thing only, and he was known in only one conservative and several liberal publications. Other than that, no one knows or cares who he is because he's not notable. The stale stuff you reverted to is not notable. If you like this guy so much, why don't you show us, not tell us what he's notable for, aside from this one event. What follows is Wikipedia policy that applies in this case. Skywriter ( talk) 01:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
No, I don't want the disputed tag taken off this deeply troubled article. I edited it to what I think it is worth. You reverted to last year's tags. The revert means that the trouble with the article last year is again the trouble with the article this year.
Last year's vote was six to delete, two to keep, and one "weak keep." One of the six keeps was a delete that was reversed based on the desire not to merge the he said/she saids with the Said bio.
As to the evidence you present, two footnotes in 30 years in an obscure book do not equal notability. Is that all you've got? Skywriter ( talk) 02:01, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
The two of you seem to be misunderstanding each other's arguments completely. But in spite of that some interesting questions are raised here -- it is possible that it is time to take this to AfD again to see if a more rigorous discussion of the issues can be had. I'm still not sure anything about this person is notable, but certainly if he is notable it is only for the Said attacks, not for an article in the Virginia law review. csloat ( talk) 00:41, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I have taken out the reference to Weiner being hired (which was outside the quotes around Said's reply). It is not supported by any evidence and is potentially libelous. There is no evidence that he wrote the article on anything other than his own initiative. The onus is on those who contend otherwise to present theirevidence. A paraphrase (or even a quote) of Said is not evidence. WHO hired him? When did they hire him? How much did they hire him for? Where is the evidence for the answers to those questions? Furthermore, it is important to remember that libel laws apply.
It may be necessary to clean up the quote to make it link up properly. But leaving in an unsubstantiated allegation that Weiner was "hired" by others would be legally problematical as well as lacking in academic rigour.
the article reflects the image cultivation of weiner and his camp and is based on highly biased "sources" (JCPA, frontpagemag,...) which are to be attributed to this camp. revision, taking into account more objective views, absolutely essential!-- Severino ( talk) 12:29, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I would like to put to bed the notion that Weiner is not an international lawyer of some reputation; and that his notability only concerns the one thing he wrote about Ed Said. The following are just a few of the citations that other writers and scholars have made of his work that have zero to do with Ed Said. More references available upon request!
Miamosa ( talk) 05:42, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea how much of Weiner's story hold's water, but this article doesn't tell me. But ss it stands, this article is pure propaganda, and relies on sources of dubious reputation, such as Israel Shahak and Alexander Cockburn. The editors appear to believe that Israel is the devil and that Israelis are demons. This point of view might be useful on the op-ed pages of the Guardian, but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia. I suggest that these obsessive partisan editors might take some time off and insult, perhaps, Finns or Canadians for a while and allow serious scholars a chance to produce something useful. 68.5.46.91 ( talk) 05:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Weiner's article did not contain any fabrications, Severino. If it did, some one would be able to name one. David Kessler (author) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.85.143 ( talk) 15:04, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
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