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Two POV sentences removed from pagan section:
Nothing wrong with neo-pagans taking over African American custom, but claiming it as their own seems a bit much. Ortolan88 16:49 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
Could someone move up the actual description of what this practice is, and explain it a bit more? Assume a reader who has never heard of this -- Tarquin 18:39 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
"has been adopted as neo-pagan custom." Huh? By whom? Isn't it only Wiccans that do this? Is it really NPOV or is it just another example of a Wiccan trying to push his/her religion as a general pagan thing? It's probably just due to ignorance, but it should perhaps be reworded, something like "some neo-pagans, mostly Wiccans...". // Liftarn 09:08 Jan 3, 2003 (UTC)
it kind of offends me, as an African-American, to hear people say that jumping over the broom was a "pagan" ritual. this is the real story... during the time of the enslavement of black people, they, as "non-humans", were not allowed to worship God in a sanctuary like whites. therefore, when a "nigger marriage" was to commence, there was no way for the black slaves to commit to each other before God, as was the custom in a religious ceremony. the slaves had to create their own rituals to honor their union. therefore, to symbolize a male slave's commitment to his slave wife, they jumped the broom. jumping the broom symbolizes sweeping away the old and bringing in the new, or a symbol of a new beginning. another reason that jumping the broom was used by enslaved Africans was because it assisted in maintaining a tie to their culture and homeland-- it was an African tradition. and as a little known aside- jumping the broom was an ancient celtic ritual also. i hope that clears everything up!
from www.phases.org.uk: "The besom, or broomstick wedding is now usually associated with gypsies, but at one time it seems to have been known in Wales amongst people who were not gypsies. A birch-broom was set aslant across the open door, either that of the bride's home or that of the cottage in which the couple were to live. The young man leapt over it into the house, and the girl then did the same. Care had to be taken not to touch the doorpost or the broom, or to move the latter accidentally, otherwise the ceremony was void. It had to be performed in the presence of witnesses, and one person, chosen for his standing and importance in the community, acted as officiant. Such a marriage was considered quite valid, however strongly the clergy might condemn it. It could, however, be broken without difficulty if, during the first twelve months, the besom was replaced in the doorway, and the dissatisfied partner jumped backwards over it from the house into the open air. The same conditions applied here as at the wedding. There had to be witnesses, and the person jumping had to avoid touching the broom or doorpost as he or she leapt. If the rite was properly performed, both parties were considered free to marry again.
It is generally associated in the UK with "common law" marriages
I question the first sentence of this article. Jumping the broom is a symbolic wedding custom. As a phrase indicating marriage, it's a euphemism based on the custom and it seems odd to use that as the first statement in the article. I don't wish to edit it because I'm not familiar enough with the custom, but it seems misleading.
I understand your concern, but I fully believe that it is a phrase first and a custom second. My reason being that more people in the African American community identify with the saying than the actual practice. Yes it is/was definately a practice (in Africa and America). But if we are going to speak of the subject in the present, then the former (phrase) should take prcedense. Plus, more people are probably searching for this article to find out the root of the SAYING than the root of the practice since most already know it originates among Blacks (in the American form, anyway). Still, I think I will add the custom/practice part to the first sentence as well just to be safe. thanks for the feedback. -- Scott Free 19:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure this is true. I know Ashantis and they don't recognize this practice at all. Unless you can provide a reference, I think that part should be taken out
Read the book I cited below "Fall of the Asante Empire" and it explains it there. The article also explains that the practice isn't done much anymore by today's Akan populations and was mainly popular during the height of the Asante Confederacy. By the way, do you have a reference (other than yourself) for the pre-christian jumping of the broom you recently added. Just curious cuz if not that part might need to be deleted as well. holla back. Scott Free 14:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
hi everyone. I wrote the article in its previous form using the scant resources I had. I returned months later to see that the page has been copied ver batum by no less than like 4 websites. Not only that, they've copied the article so much that someone used them as a source for the article I WROTE. Pretty insulting, but that's the internet. Anywayz, I went to my university and picked up some quality info on Jumping the Broom (relax ladies I'm still single, lol). I put in the info I found by Dundes. I think its crap and badly written, but its one of the only scholarly articles I could find on the subject and felt he deserved some sunlight. I'm glad to see that reputable publishers like McGraw Hill aren't towing his line and I was able to site good sources on the mainstream origin (african roots if not an african connection). holla back here or on my talk page if u notice anything horribly wrong. And thank you for not jacking. CHEERS :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4shizzal ( talk • contribs) 13:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I’m all for the acknowledgement of one's identity and heritage, but there are some things in our African heritage that are not commonly used by the 21st century African American culture of today. As African Americans, we find our roots in Africa and accept the ancestral struggle, beauty, strength, compassion and resilience AS ONE and the same. However, most African Americans differ when it come to religious rituals and practices of our ancient heritage. We seem to identify with our native roots in Africa, but we draw the line at certain things and practices that appear to be associated with occultism.
Jumping the Broom is Pagan. The definition of pagan: a) follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) b) one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods: an irreligious or hedonistic person.
Wicca (Witch Craft) and Roma (Gypsies) also had their own Jumping the Broom practices. These groups practice this ritual, which basically is declaring they’re married publicly. It is the connotation of the “Broom” that implies occultism and the fact it is associated with witchcraft & gypsies. Thus making the ritual fall into the category of Paganism. Jumping the Broom in the African American culture is not ordinarily practiced because of the stigma of slavery associated with it; the taboos of witch craft (the broom) obviously connected to it and because of the Christian religious belief that it is paganism.
In conclusion: Jumping the Broom is not necessarily religious but a custom / tradition and has no relevant legal value in Western society. The origin of the practice holds far more significance than what it represents socially. “if you believe in things you don’t understand you will suffer” Steve Wonder Lyric ~ Superstition 1972 Talking Book Album.
I added the Globalize tag. Jumping the broom is not strictly African American. I believe it originated in Europe. I got here in a link from [[ mop wedding]] which refers to a "Welsh broomstick wedding". I also remember seeing the broom jumping at the end of a wedding in a French movie (I believe it was The Return of Martin Guerre). Randall Bart Talk 21:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
From the very beginning, the article presents "jumping the broom" as an "African American topic," and presents it to the readers as a "slave wedding" ceremony originating in Africa. However, the article fails to provide any real proof that "jumping the broom" is exclusively African American, nor that it originates in Africa.
On the other hand, the article does provide evidence (from revered scholar Alan Dundes) that this custom actually originates among British Romani Gypsies (somewhat inaccurately refered to in this article as "Roma"). The article also admits that jumping the broom also was done by white people in "the south" of the US, and that it was practiced in Britain during the 1700s (see Dundes, Alan: "Jumping the Broom": On the Origin and Meaning of an African American Wedding Custom" page 327-328. The Journal of American Folklore, 1996).
I find it very inappropriate for a Wikipedia article, then, to present "jumping the broom" - through images and texts - as a primarily or even exclusively "African American" custom. Rather, I suggest, the article should acknowledge the historical reality (as proved by the academic work of Alan Dundes, quotes by Charles Dickens, etc.) that "jumping the broom" originates in Britain, most probably (according to the evidence hinted at and refered to in the article it self) among the Gypsies in Wales, but was later borrowed or forced upon black slaves in the US by white slave-owners, who had heard about the Gypsy custom in their native or ancestral Britain.
Additionally, similar African customs (such as waving brooms over the heads of the groom and bride) should be presented as such: similar customs, perhaps entitled to their own articles. But claims with no reliable evidence, such as the custom of "jumping" the broom originating in Africa, should not be presented as facts - but as theories held by some, despite the lack of evidence.
In the introduction of the article, "jumping the broom" should be presented as a custom which probably originates among Welsh Gypsies - although it later also was adopted by other groups. And the article should not only be linked to African American topics, but also to Welsh and English Romanies/Gypsies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kale_(Welsh_Romanies)
I also find it unacceptably unprofessional (if not racist) to refer to Romani (Gypsy) customs as "obscure." // — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Peterson ( talk • contribs) 22:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Removed {{Requested move/dated|Jumping the broom (African American)}} without closing the discussion, as foreshadowed below. There is no possibility of consensus to move, but discussion is making progress towards an alternative solution and should continue. Andrewa ( talk) 13:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Jumping the broom → Jumping the broom (African American) — While admitting that the custom originated among Welsh/English Gypsies, this article is primarily about the African American adaption(s) of the rite. For clarity and accuracy, I suggest that the article should be renamed "Jumping the broom (African American)" - the main page for "Jumping the broom" should contain links to both "Jumping the broom (African American)" and Jumping the broom (Romani people).-- George Peterson ( talk) 03:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
As an uninvolved admin, I suggest we close this move request but do not close the discussion. There is no possibility of a decision to move this article as proposed IMO, however there is good progress towards another solution and discussion should continue.
So, if there are no objections, I propose to simply remove the {{Requested move/dated|Jumping the broom (African American)}} template, which will remove this discussion from the Wikipedia:Requested moves#Backlog, but not to close the discussion as would be normal in terms of Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closing the requested move. This will allow this discussion to continue unimpeded here. Andrewa ( talk) 19:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I have posted some merge notices. These just serve to alert other editors as to the discussion here. They're not as formal as the Requested moves process as normally no admin powers are needed to action a merge. Hope this helps. Andrewa ( talk) 20:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
See above discussions. Andrewa ( talk) 20:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I actually think both articles were great, and there is not much conflict between them. I took the liberty of merging material from both articles, without adding or removing much to any of them. I think this should do justice to both the Welsh Romani/Gypsy and African American traditions. Hope this helps.
I deleted the following paragraph from the article, because it draws biased conclusions in a disputed matter, without citing any credible sources: " The custom, fully formed though not necessarily uniform, diffused among the different ethnic groups and was used to solidify marriages during slavery among their communities. Jumping the broom therefore does owe part of its origin to slavery, but is also part of African culture that had survived in the United States like the Voodun religion of the Fon and Ewe ethnic groups or the ring-shout ceremony of the BaKongo and Mbundu ethnic groups. " Lydia1tree ( talk) 19:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
The article as it stands doesn't seem to give due weight to the challenge offered to the institution of slavery by any assertion of married status by slaves. Slaves who entered independently into a marital commitment were surely challenging the right of their so-called owners to dispose of them as if they were not autonomous human beings - they were disposing of themselves, to each other. So if two people announced they were married, they were demonstrating a right of ownership over their own bodies which directly challenged their slave status. Surely this is why marriage between slaves was not encouraged or even recognised in slave-owning states? Wouldn't this make any marriage ceremony practised by slaves, including broomstick rituals, a subversive act? RLamb ( talk) 07:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Re: "African Americans have married the least of all of the predominant ethnic groups in the U.S. with a 29.9% marriage rate." (WP marriage article)
This difference should be put in historical perspective.
The lower marriage rates of African Americans arises directly from a long series of laws targeting black marriage:
1. Enslaved blacks were denied legally-recognized marriage (hence ceremonies such as " jumping the broom.") The denial of legally valid marriage served the convenience for slaveowners who might wish to sell one but not both of a couple. All slave children were by definition "illegitimate" and could likewise be sold without concern for any legally enforceable rights to a parent-child relationship. After the American Civil War, special statutes legitimated certain marriage-like relations between freed African-American couples, and their children were acknowledged to have rights to parental support, but no tradition of marriage had been allowed to develop over the generations.
2. After the Civil War, miscegenation statutes continued to void and punish attempted marriages of blacks to whites.
3. In the latter 20th Century, children of a couple could receive needed governmental assistance (e.g., W.I.C.) only if there were not, in their home, two parents required by law to support the children. If unemployed, the children's father had reason not to live in the family home, or if he did, to avoid marriage to their mother. Legal obligations to provide child support depended on marriage in most states) (in Texas and Ohio, until 1972 Supreme Court decisions). A man without a job was thus worth more to the physical needs of his family if he were gone, rather than present in the home. The persistent high rate of black unemployment, directly connected to separate and inferior schools under Jim Crow laws, exacerbated this problem. As a result, a generation of black youth were raised in fatherless homes.
As these laws were finally repealed or amended toward the end of the 20th Century, allowing the tradition of marriage to begin to recover among American blacks, the rate of marriage began to decline generally among all ethnic groups. This decline affected black as well as non-black marriage rates.
Ocdnctx ( talk) 16:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I just posted to the editor's talk page some suggestions in case they'd like to re-add about Nigeria the content that was recently added and reverted. The editor seems to be new. Nick Levinson ( talk) 17:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC) (Corrected a link: 17:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC))
So far, the only thing we know reliably is that "broomstick-wedding" could mean "irregular wedding" in the 1770s. We also seem to have solid evidence that the Welsh Kale had the custom of jumping over a flowering branch of broom ( Broom (shrub), not "a broom") in the 19th century. [1]
Now it seems perfectly obvious that the 1770s expression meant "as legally worthless as a wedding held in a gypsy camp". [2] So the existence would be indirect evidence that the gypsy custom predates 1770.
The "Victorian" misconception was, apparently, to derive from the saying the picture of jumping over a broom (the household tool). Since this is apparently recorded for slave weddings in the US from as early as the 1840s, it seems likely that this is also the locus of this re-interpretation (i.e. not "Victorian" at all but "antebellum US"). It is futile, then, to search for rituals involving brooms, in Africa or elsewhere. -- dab (𒁳) 15:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
unfortunately, the "
mop wedding" thing may also have been a hoax.
Posted
in 2008 by
an editor
whose contributions are basically limited to this item.
The article cited the following sources:
Brand (1849) is accessible online, and it does not contain any material on "mop weddings" which should be enough to give us pause. Likewise, Cobbett (1885) is online here and it does not contain any references to mops. This should be enough to treat the entire thing as a hoax pending confirmation. -- dab (𒁳) 08:58, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I have heard of the custom being used in pre-legalization same-sex marriage/commitment ceremonies in the United States. At the time I assumed it was acknowledging similarity to a slave marriage in that it wasn't legally recognized. However, although I can find it used as a metaphor in writing (e.g. Jumping the Broom: How "Married" are Married Gay Couples?, Jumping the Broom to Equality) now that I look, every example of actual use I can find in a brief search has at least one black spouse. (e.g. Jumping the broom. Same-sex wedding., Jumping the Broom: A Black persepctive on same-gender marriage, Hank Hamilton and his partner Larry Clement jump in the air as part of "jumping the broom," a traditional wedding custom, during their same-sex marriage ceremony at Unity in Chicago in Chicago, Illinois, June 1, 2014. REUTERS/Jim Young, Mignon and Elaine jump the broom after a decade of commitment). I also remember seeing it in Dykes to Watch Out For, when Clarice and Toni are married. But again, Clarice is black.
Does anyone know if the custom was widespread among same-sex couples of other races? 23.83.37.241 ( talk) 21:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
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Two POV sentences removed from pagan section:
Nothing wrong with neo-pagans taking over African American custom, but claiming it as their own seems a bit much. Ortolan88 16:49 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
Could someone move up the actual description of what this practice is, and explain it a bit more? Assume a reader who has never heard of this -- Tarquin 18:39 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
"has been adopted as neo-pagan custom." Huh? By whom? Isn't it only Wiccans that do this? Is it really NPOV or is it just another example of a Wiccan trying to push his/her religion as a general pagan thing? It's probably just due to ignorance, but it should perhaps be reworded, something like "some neo-pagans, mostly Wiccans...". // Liftarn 09:08 Jan 3, 2003 (UTC)
it kind of offends me, as an African-American, to hear people say that jumping over the broom was a "pagan" ritual. this is the real story... during the time of the enslavement of black people, they, as "non-humans", were not allowed to worship God in a sanctuary like whites. therefore, when a "nigger marriage" was to commence, there was no way for the black slaves to commit to each other before God, as was the custom in a religious ceremony. the slaves had to create their own rituals to honor their union. therefore, to symbolize a male slave's commitment to his slave wife, they jumped the broom. jumping the broom symbolizes sweeping away the old and bringing in the new, or a symbol of a new beginning. another reason that jumping the broom was used by enslaved Africans was because it assisted in maintaining a tie to their culture and homeland-- it was an African tradition. and as a little known aside- jumping the broom was an ancient celtic ritual also. i hope that clears everything up!
from www.phases.org.uk: "The besom, or broomstick wedding is now usually associated with gypsies, but at one time it seems to have been known in Wales amongst people who were not gypsies. A birch-broom was set aslant across the open door, either that of the bride's home or that of the cottage in which the couple were to live. The young man leapt over it into the house, and the girl then did the same. Care had to be taken not to touch the doorpost or the broom, or to move the latter accidentally, otherwise the ceremony was void. It had to be performed in the presence of witnesses, and one person, chosen for his standing and importance in the community, acted as officiant. Such a marriage was considered quite valid, however strongly the clergy might condemn it. It could, however, be broken without difficulty if, during the first twelve months, the besom was replaced in the doorway, and the dissatisfied partner jumped backwards over it from the house into the open air. The same conditions applied here as at the wedding. There had to be witnesses, and the person jumping had to avoid touching the broom or doorpost as he or she leapt. If the rite was properly performed, both parties were considered free to marry again.
It is generally associated in the UK with "common law" marriages
I question the first sentence of this article. Jumping the broom is a symbolic wedding custom. As a phrase indicating marriage, it's a euphemism based on the custom and it seems odd to use that as the first statement in the article. I don't wish to edit it because I'm not familiar enough with the custom, but it seems misleading.
I understand your concern, but I fully believe that it is a phrase first and a custom second. My reason being that more people in the African American community identify with the saying than the actual practice. Yes it is/was definately a practice (in Africa and America). But if we are going to speak of the subject in the present, then the former (phrase) should take prcedense. Plus, more people are probably searching for this article to find out the root of the SAYING than the root of the practice since most already know it originates among Blacks (in the American form, anyway). Still, I think I will add the custom/practice part to the first sentence as well just to be safe. thanks for the feedback. -- Scott Free 19:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure this is true. I know Ashantis and they don't recognize this practice at all. Unless you can provide a reference, I think that part should be taken out
Read the book I cited below "Fall of the Asante Empire" and it explains it there. The article also explains that the practice isn't done much anymore by today's Akan populations and was mainly popular during the height of the Asante Confederacy. By the way, do you have a reference (other than yourself) for the pre-christian jumping of the broom you recently added. Just curious cuz if not that part might need to be deleted as well. holla back. Scott Free 14:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
hi everyone. I wrote the article in its previous form using the scant resources I had. I returned months later to see that the page has been copied ver batum by no less than like 4 websites. Not only that, they've copied the article so much that someone used them as a source for the article I WROTE. Pretty insulting, but that's the internet. Anywayz, I went to my university and picked up some quality info on Jumping the Broom (relax ladies I'm still single, lol). I put in the info I found by Dundes. I think its crap and badly written, but its one of the only scholarly articles I could find on the subject and felt he deserved some sunlight. I'm glad to see that reputable publishers like McGraw Hill aren't towing his line and I was able to site good sources on the mainstream origin (african roots if not an african connection). holla back here or on my talk page if u notice anything horribly wrong. And thank you for not jacking. CHEERS :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4shizzal ( talk • contribs) 13:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I’m all for the acknowledgement of one's identity and heritage, but there are some things in our African heritage that are not commonly used by the 21st century African American culture of today. As African Americans, we find our roots in Africa and accept the ancestral struggle, beauty, strength, compassion and resilience AS ONE and the same. However, most African Americans differ when it come to religious rituals and practices of our ancient heritage. We seem to identify with our native roots in Africa, but we draw the line at certain things and practices that appear to be associated with occultism.
Jumping the Broom is Pagan. The definition of pagan: a) follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome) b) one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods: an irreligious or hedonistic person.
Wicca (Witch Craft) and Roma (Gypsies) also had their own Jumping the Broom practices. These groups practice this ritual, which basically is declaring they’re married publicly. It is the connotation of the “Broom” that implies occultism and the fact it is associated with witchcraft & gypsies. Thus making the ritual fall into the category of Paganism. Jumping the Broom in the African American culture is not ordinarily practiced because of the stigma of slavery associated with it; the taboos of witch craft (the broom) obviously connected to it and because of the Christian religious belief that it is paganism.
In conclusion: Jumping the Broom is not necessarily religious but a custom / tradition and has no relevant legal value in Western society. The origin of the practice holds far more significance than what it represents socially. “if you believe in things you don’t understand you will suffer” Steve Wonder Lyric ~ Superstition 1972 Talking Book Album.
I added the Globalize tag. Jumping the broom is not strictly African American. I believe it originated in Europe. I got here in a link from [[ mop wedding]] which refers to a "Welsh broomstick wedding". I also remember seeing the broom jumping at the end of a wedding in a French movie (I believe it was The Return of Martin Guerre). Randall Bart Talk 21:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
From the very beginning, the article presents "jumping the broom" as an "African American topic," and presents it to the readers as a "slave wedding" ceremony originating in Africa. However, the article fails to provide any real proof that "jumping the broom" is exclusively African American, nor that it originates in Africa.
On the other hand, the article does provide evidence (from revered scholar Alan Dundes) that this custom actually originates among British Romani Gypsies (somewhat inaccurately refered to in this article as "Roma"). The article also admits that jumping the broom also was done by white people in "the south" of the US, and that it was practiced in Britain during the 1700s (see Dundes, Alan: "Jumping the Broom": On the Origin and Meaning of an African American Wedding Custom" page 327-328. The Journal of American Folklore, 1996).
I find it very inappropriate for a Wikipedia article, then, to present "jumping the broom" - through images and texts - as a primarily or even exclusively "African American" custom. Rather, I suggest, the article should acknowledge the historical reality (as proved by the academic work of Alan Dundes, quotes by Charles Dickens, etc.) that "jumping the broom" originates in Britain, most probably (according to the evidence hinted at and refered to in the article it self) among the Gypsies in Wales, but was later borrowed or forced upon black slaves in the US by white slave-owners, who had heard about the Gypsy custom in their native or ancestral Britain.
Additionally, similar African customs (such as waving brooms over the heads of the groom and bride) should be presented as such: similar customs, perhaps entitled to their own articles. But claims with no reliable evidence, such as the custom of "jumping" the broom originating in Africa, should not be presented as facts - but as theories held by some, despite the lack of evidence.
In the introduction of the article, "jumping the broom" should be presented as a custom which probably originates among Welsh Gypsies - although it later also was adopted by other groups. And the article should not only be linked to African American topics, but also to Welsh and English Romanies/Gypsies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kale_(Welsh_Romanies)
I also find it unacceptably unprofessional (if not racist) to refer to Romani (Gypsy) customs as "obscure." // — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Peterson ( talk • contribs) 22:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Removed {{Requested move/dated|Jumping the broom (African American)}} without closing the discussion, as foreshadowed below. There is no possibility of consensus to move, but discussion is making progress towards an alternative solution and should continue. Andrewa ( talk) 13:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Jumping the broom → Jumping the broom (African American) — While admitting that the custom originated among Welsh/English Gypsies, this article is primarily about the African American adaption(s) of the rite. For clarity and accuracy, I suggest that the article should be renamed "Jumping the broom (African American)" - the main page for "Jumping the broom" should contain links to both "Jumping the broom (African American)" and Jumping the broom (Romani people).-- George Peterson ( talk) 03:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
As an uninvolved admin, I suggest we close this move request but do not close the discussion. There is no possibility of a decision to move this article as proposed IMO, however there is good progress towards another solution and discussion should continue.
So, if there are no objections, I propose to simply remove the {{Requested move/dated|Jumping the broom (African American)}} template, which will remove this discussion from the Wikipedia:Requested moves#Backlog, but not to close the discussion as would be normal in terms of Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closing the requested move. This will allow this discussion to continue unimpeded here. Andrewa ( talk) 19:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I have posted some merge notices. These just serve to alert other editors as to the discussion here. They're not as formal as the Requested moves process as normally no admin powers are needed to action a merge. Hope this helps. Andrewa ( talk) 20:16, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
See above discussions. Andrewa ( talk) 20:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I actually think both articles were great, and there is not much conflict between them. I took the liberty of merging material from both articles, without adding or removing much to any of them. I think this should do justice to both the Welsh Romani/Gypsy and African American traditions. Hope this helps.
I deleted the following paragraph from the article, because it draws biased conclusions in a disputed matter, without citing any credible sources: " The custom, fully formed though not necessarily uniform, diffused among the different ethnic groups and was used to solidify marriages during slavery among their communities. Jumping the broom therefore does owe part of its origin to slavery, but is also part of African culture that had survived in the United States like the Voodun religion of the Fon and Ewe ethnic groups or the ring-shout ceremony of the BaKongo and Mbundu ethnic groups. " Lydia1tree ( talk) 19:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
The article as it stands doesn't seem to give due weight to the challenge offered to the institution of slavery by any assertion of married status by slaves. Slaves who entered independently into a marital commitment were surely challenging the right of their so-called owners to dispose of them as if they were not autonomous human beings - they were disposing of themselves, to each other. So if two people announced they were married, they were demonstrating a right of ownership over their own bodies which directly challenged their slave status. Surely this is why marriage between slaves was not encouraged or even recognised in slave-owning states? Wouldn't this make any marriage ceremony practised by slaves, including broomstick rituals, a subversive act? RLamb ( talk) 07:52, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Re: "African Americans have married the least of all of the predominant ethnic groups in the U.S. with a 29.9% marriage rate." (WP marriage article)
This difference should be put in historical perspective.
The lower marriage rates of African Americans arises directly from a long series of laws targeting black marriage:
1. Enslaved blacks were denied legally-recognized marriage (hence ceremonies such as " jumping the broom.") The denial of legally valid marriage served the convenience for slaveowners who might wish to sell one but not both of a couple. All slave children were by definition "illegitimate" and could likewise be sold without concern for any legally enforceable rights to a parent-child relationship. After the American Civil War, special statutes legitimated certain marriage-like relations between freed African-American couples, and their children were acknowledged to have rights to parental support, but no tradition of marriage had been allowed to develop over the generations.
2. After the Civil War, miscegenation statutes continued to void and punish attempted marriages of blacks to whites.
3. In the latter 20th Century, children of a couple could receive needed governmental assistance (e.g., W.I.C.) only if there were not, in their home, two parents required by law to support the children. If unemployed, the children's father had reason not to live in the family home, or if he did, to avoid marriage to their mother. Legal obligations to provide child support depended on marriage in most states) (in Texas and Ohio, until 1972 Supreme Court decisions). A man without a job was thus worth more to the physical needs of his family if he were gone, rather than present in the home. The persistent high rate of black unemployment, directly connected to separate and inferior schools under Jim Crow laws, exacerbated this problem. As a result, a generation of black youth were raised in fatherless homes.
As these laws were finally repealed or amended toward the end of the 20th Century, allowing the tradition of marriage to begin to recover among American blacks, the rate of marriage began to decline generally among all ethnic groups. This decline affected black as well as non-black marriage rates.
Ocdnctx ( talk) 16:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
I just posted to the editor's talk page some suggestions in case they'd like to re-add about Nigeria the content that was recently added and reverted. The editor seems to be new. Nick Levinson ( talk) 17:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC) (Corrected a link: 17:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC))
So far, the only thing we know reliably is that "broomstick-wedding" could mean "irregular wedding" in the 1770s. We also seem to have solid evidence that the Welsh Kale had the custom of jumping over a flowering branch of broom ( Broom (shrub), not "a broom") in the 19th century. [1]
Now it seems perfectly obvious that the 1770s expression meant "as legally worthless as a wedding held in a gypsy camp". [2] So the existence would be indirect evidence that the gypsy custom predates 1770.
The "Victorian" misconception was, apparently, to derive from the saying the picture of jumping over a broom (the household tool). Since this is apparently recorded for slave weddings in the US from as early as the 1840s, it seems likely that this is also the locus of this re-interpretation (i.e. not "Victorian" at all but "antebellum US"). It is futile, then, to search for rituals involving brooms, in Africa or elsewhere. -- dab (𒁳) 15:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
unfortunately, the "
mop wedding" thing may also have been a hoax.
Posted
in 2008 by
an editor
whose contributions are basically limited to this item.
The article cited the following sources:
Brand (1849) is accessible online, and it does not contain any material on "mop weddings" which should be enough to give us pause. Likewise, Cobbett (1885) is online here and it does not contain any references to mops. This should be enough to treat the entire thing as a hoax pending confirmation. -- dab (𒁳) 08:58, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I have heard of the custom being used in pre-legalization same-sex marriage/commitment ceremonies in the United States. At the time I assumed it was acknowledging similarity to a slave marriage in that it wasn't legally recognized. However, although I can find it used as a metaphor in writing (e.g. Jumping the Broom: How "Married" are Married Gay Couples?, Jumping the Broom to Equality) now that I look, every example of actual use I can find in a brief search has at least one black spouse. (e.g. Jumping the broom. Same-sex wedding., Jumping the Broom: A Black persepctive on same-gender marriage, Hank Hamilton and his partner Larry Clement jump in the air as part of "jumping the broom," a traditional wedding custom, during their same-sex marriage ceremony at Unity in Chicago in Chicago, Illinois, June 1, 2014. REUTERS/Jim Young, Mignon and Elaine jump the broom after a decade of commitment). I also remember seeing it in Dykes to Watch Out For, when Clarice and Toni are married. But again, Clarice is black.
Does anyone know if the custom was widespread among same-sex couples of other races? 23.83.37.241 ( talk) 21:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)