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It seems to me that this article relies far too much on primary sources (police/FBI website material etc), contrary to Wikipedia guidelines. This needs correcting, and material needs sourcing properly from WP:RS secondary sources - not least to establish the the article meets Wikipedia notability guidelines, which cannot be established via primary sources. Note also that most YouTube videos shouldn't even be linked (see WP:YOUTUBE), never mind used as a source - I've had to remove on already as an almost certain copyright violation. If evidence cannot be established from mainstream reliable sources, it may be necessary to nominate the article for deletion. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 04:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
The NGIC material reports on and analyzes the firsthand experiences of police officers, making it a secondary source for the most part. It does analyze and report on other secondary sources, so it has elements of a tertiary source as well, but it's certainly not "encyclopedic".
I apologize for the YouTube thing, as I wasn't aware that was considered copyright infringement. My bad. I'm still getting used to Wikipedia.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
This Article cites two documents cited to publicintelligence.net: [1] [2]. Per discussions at WP:RSN (see [3] and [4]), and per WP:RS policy, publicintelligence.net clearly cannot be cited as a source. Furthermore, the National Gang Intelligence Center document on Juggalos is clearly an internal document - no evidence has been provided that it has ever been published, or is in any way available to members of the public short of a FOIA request - and as such cannot be cited as a source, if for no other reason than that we have no means to verify its authenticity (note also that WP:RS states explicitly that sources must be published). Though the second document has not yet been discussed at WP:RSN, I can see no reason to assume that the same arguments should not apply (The document states that it is "Confidential - Sensitive Data Law Enforcement Use Only"). On this basis, since neither document can be cited as WP:RS (being unpublished, and therefore unverifiable), I shall shortly be removing the citations. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:56, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:Ignore all rules, I would argue that the Public Intelligence sources should stay. The document comes from the National Gang Intelligence Center, which is a reliable source, and according to the link that you provided me, Public Intelligence is generally not allowed as a source due to the fact that it aggregates files from many sources, some of which may not be reliable, and to quote, "If there is anything of value it can be traced back to its original publisher, author etc." The National Gang Intelligence Center (from which this document originates) is a reliable source on U.S. street gangs already cited in several articles. The NGIC did not release the report via their web site and it is not available at any other web site at this time, meaning that this may be an important exception to the rule, as it cannot be traced back to the agency (which was recently disbanded). This document can be confirmed as legitimate, as the FBI cited and quoted it in their 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment. Removing the link would negatively impact the article, and changes nothing at the end of the day, so I feel like this is one of those times when a PI document would be helpful to keep.
As far as being published goes, PI published it, and they can, as non-classified government documents are not protected by copyright, if I remember correctly. Regardless, I think that any document you can order directly to your house by filling out a form would fall under the definition of "published". It's not any different than ordering a book that wasn't marketed to bookstores. If it wasn't "published", you wouldn't be able to get it via FOIA. The government has a word for "internal unpublished documents", and that word is "classified". "Sensitive" is not at all the same thing as "classified". You can get "sensitive" information via the FOIA if you know the name of the document. If it were legitimately "classified", then you wouldn't be able to get it via FOIA, and then it would fall under the policy that you specified. To remove the document would have a chilling effect - any government information that isn't explicitly posted on their official web site would need to be removed, and I really don't think that this was the intention of the policy in question, so I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The point is moot, though. The NGIC was recently disbanded by the Obama administration, and it couldn't be an "internal" document of an agency that does not exist.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
1. This phenomenon has been documented by the FBI, the NGIC, Wired magazine, and news stations around the country. Requirements for eligibility have been met, so I've removed the box at the top of the page. 2. The article's sources question contain both tertiary and seconday sources, so I've removed that box as well. Secondary sources can be found throughout the article in the form of news reports and reports on law enforcement's firsthand experiences with Juggalo gangs. The government reports analyze and report both on second-hand open source reporting (which qualifies them as tertiary sources) as well as first-hand reports (making them secondary sources as well). They're certainly not "encyclopedic" and focus on analyzing the first-hand experiences of law enforcement officials more than news reports. 3. Added information about the documents recently released by the FBI in response to ICP's lawsuit. 4. Fixed some sources and tried to make some of the article more clear.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
The paragraph doesn't flow very well. Here's a possible rewrite and it shorter and more to the point- The wider Juggalo subculture has some features in common with traditional gangs, including throwing hand signs, wearing matching clothing, and getting matching tattoos.[3] However, the criminal Juggalo subsets have more ominous similarities with traditional gangs that include initiations, handbooks for rules and punishments, formal leadership structure, colors, and may engage in organized patterns of serious criminal activity.[1][3][5][7] Jonpatterns ( talk) 14:41, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
This phrase, or similar, is used in several places. Do we have a reliable source that states that Vasey is 'an expert'? If we don't, we shouldn't be saying she is. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 20:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I think that it needs to be noted here that User:AnnerTown started a thread on the dispute resolution noticeboard regarding this article, but after making the initial posting, made no further input whatsoever. [7] As can be seen, the issue was once again the admissibility or otherwise of the material sourced to publicintelligence.net etc. Given the comment made by User:Noleander, the uninvolved volunteer at DRN ("Well, I'm not sure if AnnerTown is still participating or not (I'll ping them on their talk page). But if they don't reply, we could perhaps assume that AndyTheGrump has a point, and that those sources are not suitable for the article"), I think it is only reasonable at this point to assume that the sources aren't suitable, and proceed accordingly. Rather than gut the article entirely, it might be worth looking at a published source which came up at a discussion on the reliable sources noticeboard, the National Gang intelligence Center 2011 National Gang threat assessment [8], to see what can be used as a replacement. This is going to involve considerable work, however, and frankly, after all the hassle I've had to go through so far, I'm not particularly keen in doing it myself. Any volunteers? AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:15, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
It should really be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.49.163.73 ( talk) 20:06, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Whoever wrote that "That report does not say that juggalos are holding their own against the MS-13" is absolutely wrong. Here is an exact quote from the document:
"[redacted] stated the Juggalos are in a type of gang war in California with the MS-13 gang and are holding their own against them." — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown ( talk • contribs) 21:37, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
(discussion copy-pasted from Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) — rybec 01:10, 14 January 2014 (UTC))
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:NPOV states "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view." The ACLU is suing the FBI over the categorization of Insane Clown Posse's fans as a gang. There is no evidence linking music fandom to gang activity. The article Juggalos (gang) should be renamed "allegations of Juggalo gang activity" or deleted/merged, to correspond with factual data on the ICP fandom. http://www.aclumich.org/Juggalos
It should also be noted that allegations of gang activity connected to ICP fans have origin in racism, as pointed out by an interviewer here: http://steed.bangordailynews.com/2014/01/09/rachel-healy-of-the-aclu-on-why-the-civil-rights-advocacy-group-is-getting-down-with-the-clown/
Who states; "What makes me nervous is seeing these emerging reports about the changing nature of gang affiliation, where affiliations are becoming much more fluid and less rigid than they were even a decade ago. Based on this changing scene, and these blanket assumptions of affiliation, the FBI and other agencies could ultimately justify going after any black or Latino kid in urban areas based on a suspicion of affiliation by proximity."
Is this really what Wikipedia should be encouraging by labeling ICP fans as a gang in spite of factual evidence proving that they are not a gang and lawsuits from ICP themselves and the ACLU? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACLUSupporter1 ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
West Valley City Police Detective John LeFavor, who teaches a Juggalos class to police officers, teachers and social services workers at the Utah Gang Conference each year, said the majority of Utahns who define themselves as Juggalos are not violent. [...] LeFavor said police don't have a firm figure on the number of Juggalos in Utah, but said there are 'thousands.'
This really needs to be moved to Talk:Juggalos (gang), as this is merely a content issue specific to this topic, and currently no one who has that or Juggalo watchlisted is necessarily aware of this thread. Note also the prior discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Criminal activity attributed to Juggalos. postdlf ( talk) 22:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Niteshift36, can you continue to address the sources, or are you just going to leave things as is, where you've only addressed a single source and no other issues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACLUSupporter1 ( talk • contribs) 21:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
I looked over the recent discussion, and all I wanted to add is that we should keep this as a separate article, because not all Juggalos are gang members or criminals. I do understand that some LEOs apparently believe that all Juggalos qualify as gang members, but most sources cited here support the idea that this is an entirely separate phenomena from the general Juggalo fan base.
I made the following changes to the article:
A few of the citations still look sort of messy, but I'm tired and will fix it when I can.
I won't be able to respond for a day or two at the least, but I'll be around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown ( talk • contribs) 02:56, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
"These gangs often use traditional gang initiation rituals such as "jumping in" members". I can guess what "jumping in" means, but honestly I have no idea and I would guess most people who lack background knowledge on this don't understand it either. Can someone clarify it for a general audience? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.17.69 ( talk) 11:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've full-protected this page to stop an edit war. Please bring your arguments here and agree a compromise, and I can unprotect the article. -- John ( talk) 00:43, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. BDD's argument reveals problems with the existing name. It is hard to reconcile the title with the material in the article. If the text of article is correct then 85-90% of self-described Juggalos are peaceful, non-criminal music fans. There could be different ways of organizing the material and we can always hope for further progress. Crips is different because the opening sentence says that the Crips are a gang. It is implied there are no 'non-gang' Crips. If the title is changed to Juggalo gangs, that implies that there are gangs all of whose members are Juggalos (i.e. fans of particular music), which is consistent with what the article says. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:48, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Juggalos (gang) →
Juggalo gangs – God, how did I end up making another ICP RM? While I agree with some of the above discussion that having separate articles on the Juggalo subcultures and gangs is problematic, their size probably makes a merge impractical. We can at least come up with a better title for this one. My suggestion uses
WP:NATURAL disambiguation. I believe it's compliant with
WP:PLURAL. There isn't a single gang of Juggalos, let alone one called "Juggalos" as the current title implies. The the Bloods and Crips are both listed as Juggalo allies is indicative of the fact that the subject of this article is a group of distinct Juggalo gangs. Let's title it accordingly.
BDD (
talk)
20:51, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
AnnerTown ( talk) 04:38, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
It is hard to believe that the Crips and the Aryan Brotherhood are allies of the same gang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.110.144 ( talk) 14:41, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
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I have just modified 4 external links on Juggalo gangs. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I undid an edit by Revlastrite that claimed that a 2011 Assessment (cited in the Criminal activities section of the infobox) was inaccurate, as it disrupted the main article.
Criminal Activities are not specific or no Empirical data has been used. How many Juggalos of the approximate 8 million in their culture have committed the crimes listed. If less than 10% than that doesn't constitute gang activity. Also, how does this compare to other cultures i.e. Christians committing murder, i.e. other violent gangs. The Juggalo Culture admits that there are bad apples, every culture has one. However the actions of the 2017 Juggalo March does not depict activities of a violent crime. It has been called the most peaceful protest in 25 years. This article is propaganda to push an agenda. No empirical data has been entered to support claims of criminal violent "gang" activity. The 2011 Assessment was indeed that "an Assessment", which is the opinion of 1 or more analysts based on the data that is on hand. No fact checking has been done.
SelfCloak ( talk) 14:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
This article relies heavily on a 2011 FBI report and an assessment that was the basis of it. User:AndyTheGrump commented some time ago on the unreliability issue above and at the DRN. [13] Cryptobomb certainly fails WP:RS and the Publicintelligence source was " disseminated for authorized law enforcement purposes only" and we should not use it directly. It formed the basis of the FBI's 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment that we do use, and that's the only FBI source that meets WP:RS. I have a similar issue with the List of Juggalo gang subsets article which relies on an the same unpublished report. Doug Weller talk 16:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
The Juggalo March article has been nominated for deletion. You can view the ongoing discussion here. Thanks, --- Another Believer ( Talk) 01:26, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Juggaloes are a piecefull family 216.180.190.141 ( talk) 03:50, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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It seems to me that this article relies far too much on primary sources (police/FBI website material etc), contrary to Wikipedia guidelines. This needs correcting, and material needs sourcing properly from WP:RS secondary sources - not least to establish the the article meets Wikipedia notability guidelines, which cannot be established via primary sources. Note also that most YouTube videos shouldn't even be linked (see WP:YOUTUBE), never mind used as a source - I've had to remove on already as an almost certain copyright violation. If evidence cannot be established from mainstream reliable sources, it may be necessary to nominate the article for deletion. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 04:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
The NGIC material reports on and analyzes the firsthand experiences of police officers, making it a secondary source for the most part. It does analyze and report on other secondary sources, so it has elements of a tertiary source as well, but it's certainly not "encyclopedic".
I apologize for the YouTube thing, as I wasn't aware that was considered copyright infringement. My bad. I'm still getting used to Wikipedia.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
This Article cites two documents cited to publicintelligence.net: [1] [2]. Per discussions at WP:RSN (see [3] and [4]), and per WP:RS policy, publicintelligence.net clearly cannot be cited as a source. Furthermore, the National Gang Intelligence Center document on Juggalos is clearly an internal document - no evidence has been provided that it has ever been published, or is in any way available to members of the public short of a FOIA request - and as such cannot be cited as a source, if for no other reason than that we have no means to verify its authenticity (note also that WP:RS states explicitly that sources must be published). Though the second document has not yet been discussed at WP:RSN, I can see no reason to assume that the same arguments should not apply (The document states that it is "Confidential - Sensitive Data Law Enforcement Use Only"). On this basis, since neither document can be cited as WP:RS (being unpublished, and therefore unverifiable), I shall shortly be removing the citations. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:56, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:Ignore all rules, I would argue that the Public Intelligence sources should stay. The document comes from the National Gang Intelligence Center, which is a reliable source, and according to the link that you provided me, Public Intelligence is generally not allowed as a source due to the fact that it aggregates files from many sources, some of which may not be reliable, and to quote, "If there is anything of value it can be traced back to its original publisher, author etc." The National Gang Intelligence Center (from which this document originates) is a reliable source on U.S. street gangs already cited in several articles. The NGIC did not release the report via their web site and it is not available at any other web site at this time, meaning that this may be an important exception to the rule, as it cannot be traced back to the agency (which was recently disbanded). This document can be confirmed as legitimate, as the FBI cited and quoted it in their 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment. Removing the link would negatively impact the article, and changes nothing at the end of the day, so I feel like this is one of those times when a PI document would be helpful to keep.
As far as being published goes, PI published it, and they can, as non-classified government documents are not protected by copyright, if I remember correctly. Regardless, I think that any document you can order directly to your house by filling out a form would fall under the definition of "published". It's not any different than ordering a book that wasn't marketed to bookstores. If it wasn't "published", you wouldn't be able to get it via FOIA. The government has a word for "internal unpublished documents", and that word is "classified". "Sensitive" is not at all the same thing as "classified". You can get "sensitive" information via the FOIA if you know the name of the document. If it were legitimately "classified", then you wouldn't be able to get it via FOIA, and then it would fall under the policy that you specified. To remove the document would have a chilling effect - any government information that isn't explicitly posted on their official web site would need to be removed, and I really don't think that this was the intention of the policy in question, so I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.
The point is moot, though. The NGIC was recently disbanded by the Obama administration, and it couldn't be an "internal" document of an agency that does not exist.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
1. This phenomenon has been documented by the FBI, the NGIC, Wired magazine, and news stations around the country. Requirements for eligibility have been met, so I've removed the box at the top of the page. 2. The article's sources question contain both tertiary and seconday sources, so I've removed that box as well. Secondary sources can be found throughout the article in the form of news reports and reports on law enforcement's firsthand experiences with Juggalo gangs. The government reports analyze and report both on second-hand open source reporting (which qualifies them as tertiary sources) as well as first-hand reports (making them secondary sources as well). They're certainly not "encyclopedic" and focus on analyzing the first-hand experiences of law enforcement officials more than news reports. 3. Added information about the documents recently released by the FBI in response to ICP's lawsuit. 4. Fixed some sources and tried to make some of the article more clear.
AnnerTown ( talk) 06:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
The paragraph doesn't flow very well. Here's a possible rewrite and it shorter and more to the point- The wider Juggalo subculture has some features in common with traditional gangs, including throwing hand signs, wearing matching clothing, and getting matching tattoos.[3] However, the criminal Juggalo subsets have more ominous similarities with traditional gangs that include initiations, handbooks for rules and punishments, formal leadership structure, colors, and may engage in organized patterns of serious criminal activity.[1][3][5][7] Jonpatterns ( talk) 14:41, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
This phrase, or similar, is used in several places. Do we have a reliable source that states that Vasey is 'an expert'? If we don't, we shouldn't be saying she is. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 20:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I think that it needs to be noted here that User:AnnerTown started a thread on the dispute resolution noticeboard regarding this article, but after making the initial posting, made no further input whatsoever. [7] As can be seen, the issue was once again the admissibility or otherwise of the material sourced to publicintelligence.net etc. Given the comment made by User:Noleander, the uninvolved volunteer at DRN ("Well, I'm not sure if AnnerTown is still participating or not (I'll ping them on their talk page). But if they don't reply, we could perhaps assume that AndyTheGrump has a point, and that those sources are not suitable for the article"), I think it is only reasonable at this point to assume that the sources aren't suitable, and proceed accordingly. Rather than gut the article entirely, it might be worth looking at a published source which came up at a discussion on the reliable sources noticeboard, the National Gang intelligence Center 2011 National Gang threat assessment [8], to see what can be used as a replacement. This is going to involve considerable work, however, and frankly, after all the hassle I've had to go through so far, I'm not particularly keen in doing it myself. Any volunteers? AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:15, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
It should really be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.49.163.73 ( talk) 20:06, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Whoever wrote that "That report does not say that juggalos are holding their own against the MS-13" is absolutely wrong. Here is an exact quote from the document:
"[redacted] stated the Juggalos are in a type of gang war in California with the MS-13 gang and are holding their own against them." — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown ( talk • contribs) 21:37, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
(discussion copy-pasted from Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) — rybec 01:10, 14 January 2014 (UTC))
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:NPOV states "Editing from a neutral point of view (NPOV) means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view." The ACLU is suing the FBI over the categorization of Insane Clown Posse's fans as a gang. There is no evidence linking music fandom to gang activity. The article Juggalos (gang) should be renamed "allegations of Juggalo gang activity" or deleted/merged, to correspond with factual data on the ICP fandom. http://www.aclumich.org/Juggalos
It should also be noted that allegations of gang activity connected to ICP fans have origin in racism, as pointed out by an interviewer here: http://steed.bangordailynews.com/2014/01/09/rachel-healy-of-the-aclu-on-why-the-civil-rights-advocacy-group-is-getting-down-with-the-clown/
Who states; "What makes me nervous is seeing these emerging reports about the changing nature of gang affiliation, where affiliations are becoming much more fluid and less rigid than they were even a decade ago. Based on this changing scene, and these blanket assumptions of affiliation, the FBI and other agencies could ultimately justify going after any black or Latino kid in urban areas based on a suspicion of affiliation by proximity."
Is this really what Wikipedia should be encouraging by labeling ICP fans as a gang in spite of factual evidence proving that they are not a gang and lawsuits from ICP themselves and the ACLU? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACLUSupporter1 ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
West Valley City Police Detective John LeFavor, who teaches a Juggalos class to police officers, teachers and social services workers at the Utah Gang Conference each year, said the majority of Utahns who define themselves as Juggalos are not violent. [...] LeFavor said police don't have a firm figure on the number of Juggalos in Utah, but said there are 'thousands.'
This really needs to be moved to Talk:Juggalos (gang), as this is merely a content issue specific to this topic, and currently no one who has that or Juggalo watchlisted is necessarily aware of this thread. Note also the prior discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Criminal activity attributed to Juggalos. postdlf ( talk) 22:42, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Niteshift36, can you continue to address the sources, or are you just going to leave things as is, where you've only addressed a single source and no other issues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ACLUSupporter1 ( talk • contribs) 21:34, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
I looked over the recent discussion, and all I wanted to add is that we should keep this as a separate article, because not all Juggalos are gang members or criminals. I do understand that some LEOs apparently believe that all Juggalos qualify as gang members, but most sources cited here support the idea that this is an entirely separate phenomena from the general Juggalo fan base.
I made the following changes to the article:
A few of the citations still look sort of messy, but I'm tired and will fix it when I can.
I won't be able to respond for a day or two at the least, but I'll be around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown ( talk • contribs) 02:56, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
"These gangs often use traditional gang initiation rituals such as "jumping in" members". I can guess what "jumping in" means, but honestly I have no idea and I would guess most people who lack background knowledge on this don't understand it either. Can someone clarify it for a general audience? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.17.69 ( talk) 11:04, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've full-protected this page to stop an edit war. Please bring your arguments here and agree a compromise, and I can unprotect the article. -- John ( talk) 00:43, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. BDD's argument reveals problems with the existing name. It is hard to reconcile the title with the material in the article. If the text of article is correct then 85-90% of self-described Juggalos are peaceful, non-criminal music fans. There could be different ways of organizing the material and we can always hope for further progress. Crips is different because the opening sentence says that the Crips are a gang. It is implied there are no 'non-gang' Crips. If the title is changed to Juggalo gangs, that implies that there are gangs all of whose members are Juggalos (i.e. fans of particular music), which is consistent with what the article says. EdJohnston ( talk) 02:48, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Juggalos (gang) →
Juggalo gangs – God, how did I end up making another ICP RM? While I agree with some of the above discussion that having separate articles on the Juggalo subcultures and gangs is problematic, their size probably makes a merge impractical. We can at least come up with a better title for this one. My suggestion uses
WP:NATURAL disambiguation. I believe it's compliant with
WP:PLURAL. There isn't a single gang of Juggalos, let alone one called "Juggalos" as the current title implies. The the Bloods and Crips are both listed as Juggalo allies is indicative of the fact that the subject of this article is a group of distinct Juggalo gangs. Let's title it accordingly.
BDD (
talk)
20:51, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
AnnerTown ( talk) 04:38, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
It is hard to believe that the Crips and the Aryan Brotherhood are allies of the same gang. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.110.144 ( talk) 14:41, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Juggalo gangs. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:27, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I undid an edit by Revlastrite that claimed that a 2011 Assessment (cited in the Criminal activities section of the infobox) was inaccurate, as it disrupted the main article.
Criminal Activities are not specific or no Empirical data has been used. How many Juggalos of the approximate 8 million in their culture have committed the crimes listed. If less than 10% than that doesn't constitute gang activity. Also, how does this compare to other cultures i.e. Christians committing murder, i.e. other violent gangs. The Juggalo Culture admits that there are bad apples, every culture has one. However the actions of the 2017 Juggalo March does not depict activities of a violent crime. It has been called the most peaceful protest in 25 years. This article is propaganda to push an agenda. No empirical data has been entered to support claims of criminal violent "gang" activity. The 2011 Assessment was indeed that "an Assessment", which is the opinion of 1 or more analysts based on the data that is on hand. No fact checking has been done.
SelfCloak ( talk) 14:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
This article relies heavily on a 2011 FBI report and an assessment that was the basis of it. User:AndyTheGrump commented some time ago on the unreliability issue above and at the DRN. [13] Cryptobomb certainly fails WP:RS and the Publicintelligence source was " disseminated for authorized law enforcement purposes only" and we should not use it directly. It formed the basis of the FBI's 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment that we do use, and that's the only FBI source that meets WP:RS. I have a similar issue with the List of Juggalo gang subsets article which relies on an the same unpublished report. Doug Weller talk 16:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
The Juggalo March article has been nominated for deletion. You can view the ongoing discussion here. Thanks, --- Another Believer ( Talk) 01:26, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Juggaloes are a piecefull family 216.180.190.141 ( talk) 03:50, 21 July 2022 (UTC)