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Is Jubaland coextensive with Jubbada Dhexe and/or Jubbada Hoose and/or Southwestern Somalia? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 07:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Jubaland declared its independence from Somalia in 1998
Is this true? I know it was de-facto independent but I thought it never declared independence, just like Puntland but in contrast to Somaliland. AndrewRT - Talk 15:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. It was autonomous and operating "independently," but the local administration always considered rejoining Somalia once it reconstituted itself.
Jubaland- also Jubbaland. Following the secession of Puntland from Somalia in July of 1998, several regional leaders began preparing for independence. Under Mohamed Said Hersi, known as "General Morgan", the southern port of Kismayo was declared the capital of an independent Jubaland on September 3, 1998. Like Puntland's leadership, Said Hersi has avowed that Jubaland will rejoin a united Somalia.
-- Petercorless 04:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The article states that Jubaland had a population of 12,000 in 1926, now I've seen out-of-date statistics before, but this is ridiculous, lol. Is there no more up-to-date estimates? -- Hibernian 05:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to distinguish between "Jubaland" the geographic and political area, from the Juba Valley Alliance, which is now a separate document. In actuality, it was not the JVA, but the SPM who declared Jubaland autonomous. The JVA has been rather staunchly "federalist" in leaning for years. -- Petercorless 07:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I created a map for the area, however I did not have a breakdown/division of the contested provinces of Gedo and Middle Juba regions (potentially also claimed by Southwestern Somalia), so put them entirely within "Jubaland" even though they might not be entirely claimed by Jubaland. -- Petercorless 11:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Bring some stuff back. This article is pathetic. Where did all that information go? For instance, the stamps mentioned above; did they delete themselves.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.250.225 ( talk) 01:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow! Someone actually listened! I think I even meant New Years 2007, but you guys understood anyway! Good job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.210.163 ( talk) 01:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
According to this map Jubaland state was politically restored in 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Somalia_map_states_regions_districts.png Does somebody have more info about that? Article should be expanded with this new info. PANONIAN 11:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
As many of you who follows events in Somalia the rebirth of Jubaland regional state has been widely debated as both Centralist and Federalist have each accused dismantling the state of Somalia and its unity, putting aside this argument I call any editor on this page to be impartial and not carried away what he or she thinks should be the 3rd Republic of Somalia,
Thank you
Abdirisak ( talk) 09:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
The numbers in this entry are dazzling. As far as I can see, in 2005 we have 330.000 in Gedo, 390.000 in Lower Juba and 240.000 in Middle Juba. Total of 960.000. So numbers mentioned were halfway correct; after the last edit (20 September 2013) they are all incorrect. As well, totals between 2005 and 2013 have changed. Can anyone chjeck this mess? Good luck.. Super48paul ( talk) 14:56, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
The title of this article and the use of the term Jubaland are problematic. Jubaland did indeed exist as a defined entity until its integration with Italian Somalia in 1925. Since then, however, no de facto entity known as Jubaland has ever controlled the three regions of Gedo, Middle Juba and Lower Juba.
The Jubaland State of Somalia was declared in 2013, but has not been recognised by the Somali Federal Government. Under the terms of the Addis Ababa accord, the leadership has agreed to be called the "Juba Interim Administration" and to submit the petition for formal statehood to the procedures established by the Somali Provisional Constitution: This will involve a review of the application by the Boundaries and Federation Commission, which will submit its findings and recommendations to Parliament for a final decision.
In sum, the Jubaland State of Somalia has been declared, but according to the terms of the Addis Agreement and the Provisional Constitution, does not yet officially exist. And the Juba interim Authority currently controls only parts of Lower Juba, virtually none of Middle Juba (which remains under control of Al-Shabaab) and portions of Gedo.
Capturing this complexity in the article will be challenging, but it is important that changes be made to reflect the ambiguities of the present situation. HOA Monitor ( talk) 15:55, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
My proposal is not to change the name, but to reflect the fact that Jubaland is a historical and aspirational entity, rather than a legal or de facto one. I am sure that appropriate language can be found to this effect, and am prepared to propose some if no one else does. HOA Monitor ( talk) 00:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Chipmunk. I think the key is simply to alter the term 'Jubbaland State of Somalia" in the lead, and then -- as you suggest -- to include details in the politics section. With respect to Midday's predictable objections, proponents of the six-region administration are mainly of the Digil-Mirifle clan, most of whom do not live in the Juba Valley.However, many Digil-Mirifle do inhabit the Jubas, notably eastern Gedo and Middle Juba, as well as parts of Lower Juba. Some Marehan leaders from Gedo are also proponents of the six-region state. regardless of whether or not one supports this initiative (which, in my personal opinion) has little traction or chance of success, it does reflect the fact that many Digil-Mirifle and Marehan habour reservations about the current JIA leadership's composition and intentions, and are therefore making a counter-proposal. Whether or not a "permanent" federal member state will be established in the current three regions claimed by the Juba Interim Administration is, as I have indicated, a matter for the Parliament to decide, on the recommendation of the yet-to-be established BFC. The SFG has announced an initiative named "Vision 2016" to facilitate this process. the bilateral agreement reached in Addis and cited by Midday is a constructive political arrangement, but lacks the force of law under the Provisional Constitution. HOA Monitor ( talk) 22:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Numerous sources confirm the presence of "a significant minority" of Rahanweyne in the Juba Valley, including, for example, the following authoritative sources: http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/country/canada_coi/somalia/Issues_Paper_victims_and_vulnerable_groups.pdf http://www.asylumlaw.org/docs/somalia/dis00_somalia_minoritygroups.pdf http://cewarn.org/attachments/article/214/Somalia%20CEWERU%20Report%20Final.pdf These are official sources, commissioned by the Canadian, British, Danish and Dutch governments, as well as CEWARN, which is a project of the intergovernmental organisation, IGAD.
Please support you objection to this position with equally authoritative sources. HOA Monitor ( talk) 13:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
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By this edit I have just restored material deleted by Kwamikagami. I think if the user looks more closely at Egyptian and Arabic, the user will find that the Egyptian language is a variant, dialect, of Arabic, and is mostly *written* in formal Arabic. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)
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Is Jubaland coextensive with Jubbada Dhexe and/or Jubbada Hoose and/or Southwestern Somalia? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 07:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Jubaland declared its independence from Somalia in 1998
Is this true? I know it was de-facto independent but I thought it never declared independence, just like Puntland but in contrast to Somaliland. AndrewRT - Talk 15:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. It was autonomous and operating "independently," but the local administration always considered rejoining Somalia once it reconstituted itself.
Jubaland- also Jubbaland. Following the secession of Puntland from Somalia in July of 1998, several regional leaders began preparing for independence. Under Mohamed Said Hersi, known as "General Morgan", the southern port of Kismayo was declared the capital of an independent Jubaland on September 3, 1998. Like Puntland's leadership, Said Hersi has avowed that Jubaland will rejoin a united Somalia.
-- Petercorless 04:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The article states that Jubaland had a population of 12,000 in 1926, now I've seen out-of-date statistics before, but this is ridiculous, lol. Is there no more up-to-date estimates? -- Hibernian 05:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I am trying to distinguish between "Jubaland" the geographic and political area, from the Juba Valley Alliance, which is now a separate document. In actuality, it was not the JVA, but the SPM who declared Jubaland autonomous. The JVA has been rather staunchly "federalist" in leaning for years. -- Petercorless 07:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I created a map for the area, however I did not have a breakdown/division of the contested provinces of Gedo and Middle Juba regions (potentially also claimed by Southwestern Somalia), so put them entirely within "Jubaland" even though they might not be entirely claimed by Jubaland. -- Petercorless 11:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Bring some stuff back. This article is pathetic. Where did all that information go? For instance, the stamps mentioned above; did they delete themselves.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.250.225 ( talk) 01:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow! Someone actually listened! I think I even meant New Years 2007, but you guys understood anyway! Good job. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.210.163 ( talk) 01:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
According to this map Jubaland state was politically restored in 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Somalia_map_states_regions_districts.png Does somebody have more info about that? Article should be expanded with this new info. PANONIAN 11:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
As many of you who follows events in Somalia the rebirth of Jubaland regional state has been widely debated as both Centralist and Federalist have each accused dismantling the state of Somalia and its unity, putting aside this argument I call any editor on this page to be impartial and not carried away what he or she thinks should be the 3rd Republic of Somalia,
Thank you
Abdirisak ( talk) 09:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
The numbers in this entry are dazzling. As far as I can see, in 2005 we have 330.000 in Gedo, 390.000 in Lower Juba and 240.000 in Middle Juba. Total of 960.000. So numbers mentioned were halfway correct; after the last edit (20 September 2013) they are all incorrect. As well, totals between 2005 and 2013 have changed. Can anyone chjeck this mess? Good luck.. Super48paul ( talk) 14:56, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
The title of this article and the use of the term Jubaland are problematic. Jubaland did indeed exist as a defined entity until its integration with Italian Somalia in 1925. Since then, however, no de facto entity known as Jubaland has ever controlled the three regions of Gedo, Middle Juba and Lower Juba.
The Jubaland State of Somalia was declared in 2013, but has not been recognised by the Somali Federal Government. Under the terms of the Addis Ababa accord, the leadership has agreed to be called the "Juba Interim Administration" and to submit the petition for formal statehood to the procedures established by the Somali Provisional Constitution: This will involve a review of the application by the Boundaries and Federation Commission, which will submit its findings and recommendations to Parliament for a final decision.
In sum, the Jubaland State of Somalia has been declared, but according to the terms of the Addis Agreement and the Provisional Constitution, does not yet officially exist. And the Juba interim Authority currently controls only parts of Lower Juba, virtually none of Middle Juba (which remains under control of Al-Shabaab) and portions of Gedo.
Capturing this complexity in the article will be challenging, but it is important that changes be made to reflect the ambiguities of the present situation. HOA Monitor ( talk) 15:55, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
My proposal is not to change the name, but to reflect the fact that Jubaland is a historical and aspirational entity, rather than a legal or de facto one. I am sure that appropriate language can be found to this effect, and am prepared to propose some if no one else does. HOA Monitor ( talk) 00:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Chipmunk. I think the key is simply to alter the term 'Jubbaland State of Somalia" in the lead, and then -- as you suggest -- to include details in the politics section. With respect to Midday's predictable objections, proponents of the six-region administration are mainly of the Digil-Mirifle clan, most of whom do not live in the Juba Valley.However, many Digil-Mirifle do inhabit the Jubas, notably eastern Gedo and Middle Juba, as well as parts of Lower Juba. Some Marehan leaders from Gedo are also proponents of the six-region state. regardless of whether or not one supports this initiative (which, in my personal opinion) has little traction or chance of success, it does reflect the fact that many Digil-Mirifle and Marehan habour reservations about the current JIA leadership's composition and intentions, and are therefore making a counter-proposal. Whether or not a "permanent" federal member state will be established in the current three regions claimed by the Juba Interim Administration is, as I have indicated, a matter for the Parliament to decide, on the recommendation of the yet-to-be established BFC. The SFG has announced an initiative named "Vision 2016" to facilitate this process. the bilateral agreement reached in Addis and cited by Midday is a constructive political arrangement, but lacks the force of law under the Provisional Constitution. HOA Monitor ( talk) 22:08, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
Numerous sources confirm the presence of "a significant minority" of Rahanweyne in the Juba Valley, including, for example, the following authoritative sources: http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/country/canada_coi/somalia/Issues_Paper_victims_and_vulnerable_groups.pdf http://www.asylumlaw.org/docs/somalia/dis00_somalia_minoritygroups.pdf http://cewarn.org/attachments/article/214/Somalia%20CEWERU%20Report%20Final.pdf These are official sources, commissioned by the Canadian, British, Danish and Dutch governments, as well as CEWARN, which is a project of the intergovernmental organisation, IGAD.
Please support you objection to this position with equally authoritative sources. HOA Monitor ( talk) 13:55, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
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By this edit I have just restored material deleted by Kwamikagami. I think if the user looks more closely at Egyptian and Arabic, the user will find that the Egyptian language is a variant, dialect, of Arabic, and is mostly *written* in formal Arabic. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)