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"clumsy rehash" is the correct phrasing - I don't believe there any modern historians who would disagree. If there are, let's get a name. Stan 14:43, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not ready to take on this article seriously yet, but my understanding from what I do read is that Jordanes was legitimate east Goth and furthermore the work is primarily his. Cassiodorus wrote a work that was several volumes (mega biblion, mega kakon) and so the church asked Jordanes to summarize it. Jordanes had three days to read Cassiodorus, which he did before being assigned to condense it. When he worked on his version, he did not have access to Cassiodorus'. So he just bit the bullet and wrote about what he knew as a Goth and what he could remember Cassiodorus had said. We can be too hypercritical about this. So the Alans had married into the Goths. So what? If Homer could work from an oral tradition, so could Jordanes. He was also a Goth, so we don't need to find mysterious reasons why he would show sympathy to the Goths. To some extent you have to take historical circumstances presented at face value. You and I could experience a common event, but suppose you consented to an interrogation by me. I could have you so confused, doubting everything you said, that you wouldn't be sure just what did happen! That trick has been used to convict the innocent many times. Try reading a history of the Salem witchcraft trials or the Inquisiton, but you don't have to get that far back by any means. Keep your eye on the local newspaper, or better yet, go to court a few times. The sources are the only way we have to know the past. If they are to be discarded, forget it, we know nothing. If they are to be accepted, you can't pick and choose what to accept without compelling reasons. Dave 19:15, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Since the subject is Jordanes, why is there material inserted here not drawn from The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, for which there is a separate article? Why are details of Jordanes' biography elided here? -- Wetman 23:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Jordanes wrote Getica. The Roman Empire, capital Constantinople, is shown in pink. Conquests of Justinian shown in green.]] Iordanis, known in English as Jordanes (also Jordanis or even Iornandes, 'bold as a boar'), was a 6th century bureaucrat of the Eastern Roman Empire, [1] who turned his hand to history late in life.
Though he wrote a history of Rome (his Romana), the book most of interest to us now is De origine actibusque Getarum ( The Origin and Deeds of the Goths), or Getica, written in Latin [2] (probably Jordanes' third language) at Constantinople [3] about 551 CE. [4]
==
This romana do not looks like 15 century old babay :)). by the way this nonsense is all the time repeated, but factual quotes are sweaped undr carpet. The Jordanes is a Mommsen crap, literary book designed to buster his poolitical goal and big anemity of weaked man.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.169.148 ( talk • contribs) 10:13, 25 April, 2007 (UTC)
References
According to old transliteration of Jordanes by Zeuss: "Die Deutschen" (deutsch > diot = human being = Gothic thuidos) he list following peoples (tribes) conquered by the Goths (Guets) in Rotshland (please note not Russia): "Scythas, Thuidos, Inaunxis, Vasinas, Broncas, Mercens, Mordens (Remnis), Imnis and Caris".
He also mentions Vagsola, a river bigger than Tanais (Don). When looking through the Finno Ugric words for river Vagsola it can be freely transliterated as Valkasula (Valkeasula)= White River-bed. The first name of later Russificaned Volga.
There is in old British transliteration mention of Morsius Swamps. It can be derived from Finno Ugric word morsio = bride. Usually when the bride was disgrased before going to "miehelä", (to live with her man), it was common that she could not bear the shame and she drowned herself to river or swamp. There are still many swaps with same name even today.
At least the for people of Finno Ugric origin the text written by Jordanes, describing the peoples (tribes) of Finnish origin, is easy to locate from Jordanes list of peoples.
JN
The Arianism conversion theory opens with a bald-faced lie. Wulfila's adopted son, Auxentius of Durostorum makes this quite clear. Jacob Haller 08:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The Vigilius that Jordanes wrote his Romana for is unknown. Other than the not uncommon name and contemperineity, there is nothing supporting the identification with pope Vigilius. In fact, scholars agree that it would have been highly improper for Jordanes to adress a pope the way he addresses Vigilius, even admonishing him to "turn to God" (see Arne Søby Christensen's book about Jordanes). / Pieter Kuiper 10:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a controversy about Getica because the described deeds belong to Getae (a Getic population in Carpathian area)and not to Goths. Because of Jordanes confusion between Getae and Goths, large parts of Getic and Dacian history were introduced in the history of some germanic populations (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae). Some historic events in germanic histories are distorted following this confusion. Caracalla (in 214) received Geticus Maximus and Quasi Gothicus titles following battles with getae and goths. Also Belizarius received Geticus title after battles against getic tribes and not against goths (Christensen, A. S., Cassiodorus, Jordanes, and the History of the Goths. Studies in a Migration Myth, 2002, Dissertation, ISBN 978-87-7289-710-3) Readder ( talk) 11:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Christensen A. S., Troya C. and Kulikowski M. (see reference list), demonstrated in their works that Jordanes developed in Getica the history of Getic and Dacian peoples mixed with a lot of fantastic deeds. This shows Goths real name was Getae.
Readder (
talk)
18:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
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Bullet 4 of external links to Origins of the Goths is "not found" when you get to that page. https://www.romansonline.com/Indx_src.asp?Doccode=Gth_01&Doccode=Gth_01 100.15.127.199 ( talk) 15:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
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"clumsy rehash" is the correct phrasing - I don't believe there any modern historians who would disagree. If there are, let's get a name. Stan 14:43, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not ready to take on this article seriously yet, but my understanding from what I do read is that Jordanes was legitimate east Goth and furthermore the work is primarily his. Cassiodorus wrote a work that was several volumes (mega biblion, mega kakon) and so the church asked Jordanes to summarize it. Jordanes had three days to read Cassiodorus, which he did before being assigned to condense it. When he worked on his version, he did not have access to Cassiodorus'. So he just bit the bullet and wrote about what he knew as a Goth and what he could remember Cassiodorus had said. We can be too hypercritical about this. So the Alans had married into the Goths. So what? If Homer could work from an oral tradition, so could Jordanes. He was also a Goth, so we don't need to find mysterious reasons why he would show sympathy to the Goths. To some extent you have to take historical circumstances presented at face value. You and I could experience a common event, but suppose you consented to an interrogation by me. I could have you so confused, doubting everything you said, that you wouldn't be sure just what did happen! That trick has been used to convict the innocent many times. Try reading a history of the Salem witchcraft trials or the Inquisiton, but you don't have to get that far back by any means. Keep your eye on the local newspaper, or better yet, go to court a few times. The sources are the only way we have to know the past. If they are to be discarded, forget it, we know nothing. If they are to be accepted, you can't pick and choose what to accept without compelling reasons. Dave 19:15, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Since the subject is Jordanes, why is there material inserted here not drawn from The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, for which there is a separate article? Why are details of Jordanes' biography elided here? -- Wetman 23:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Jordanes wrote Getica. The Roman Empire, capital Constantinople, is shown in pink. Conquests of Justinian shown in green.]] Iordanis, known in English as Jordanes (also Jordanis or even Iornandes, 'bold as a boar'), was a 6th century bureaucrat of the Eastern Roman Empire, [1] who turned his hand to history late in life.
Though he wrote a history of Rome (his Romana), the book most of interest to us now is De origine actibusque Getarum ( The Origin and Deeds of the Goths), or Getica, written in Latin [2] (probably Jordanes' third language) at Constantinople [3] about 551 CE. [4]
==
This romana do not looks like 15 century old babay :)). by the way this nonsense is all the time repeated, but factual quotes are sweaped undr carpet. The Jordanes is a Mommsen crap, literary book designed to buster his poolitical goal and big anemity of weaked man.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.169.148 ( talk • contribs) 10:13, 25 April, 2007 (UTC)
References
According to old transliteration of Jordanes by Zeuss: "Die Deutschen" (deutsch > diot = human being = Gothic thuidos) he list following peoples (tribes) conquered by the Goths (Guets) in Rotshland (please note not Russia): "Scythas, Thuidos, Inaunxis, Vasinas, Broncas, Mercens, Mordens (Remnis), Imnis and Caris".
He also mentions Vagsola, a river bigger than Tanais (Don). When looking through the Finno Ugric words for river Vagsola it can be freely transliterated as Valkasula (Valkeasula)= White River-bed. The first name of later Russificaned Volga.
There is in old British transliteration mention of Morsius Swamps. It can be derived from Finno Ugric word morsio = bride. Usually when the bride was disgrased before going to "miehelä", (to live with her man), it was common that she could not bear the shame and she drowned herself to river or swamp. There are still many swaps with same name even today.
At least the for people of Finno Ugric origin the text written by Jordanes, describing the peoples (tribes) of Finnish origin, is easy to locate from Jordanes list of peoples.
JN
The Arianism conversion theory opens with a bald-faced lie. Wulfila's adopted son, Auxentius of Durostorum makes this quite clear. Jacob Haller 08:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The Vigilius that Jordanes wrote his Romana for is unknown. Other than the not uncommon name and contemperineity, there is nothing supporting the identification with pope Vigilius. In fact, scholars agree that it would have been highly improper for Jordanes to adress a pope the way he addresses Vigilius, even admonishing him to "turn to God" (see Arne Søby Christensen's book about Jordanes). / Pieter Kuiper 10:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
There is a controversy about Getica because the described deeds belong to Getae (a Getic population in Carpathian area)and not to Goths. Because of Jordanes confusion between Getae and Goths, large parts of Getic and Dacian history were introduced in the history of some germanic populations (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae). Some historic events in germanic histories are distorted following this confusion. Caracalla (in 214) received Geticus Maximus and Quasi Gothicus titles following battles with getae and goths. Also Belizarius received Geticus title after battles against getic tribes and not against goths (Christensen, A. S., Cassiodorus, Jordanes, and the History of the Goths. Studies in a Migration Myth, 2002, Dissertation, ISBN 978-87-7289-710-3) Readder ( talk) 11:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Christensen A. S., Troya C. and Kulikowski M. (see reference list), demonstrated in their works that Jordanes developed in Getica the history of Getic and Dacian peoples mixed with a lot of fantastic deeds. This shows Goths real name was Getae.
Readder (
talk)
18:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Jordanes. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:58, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Bullet 4 of external links to Origins of the Goths is "not found" when you get to that page. https://www.romansonline.com/Indx_src.asp?Doccode=Gth_01&Doccode=Gth_01 100.15.127.199 ( talk) 15:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)