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"A similar stance was taken by Sacks and his Beth Din when they prevented the retired rabbi Louis Jacobs, who had helped establish the British branch of the Masorti movement, from being called up for the Reading of the Torah on the Saturday before his granddaughter's wedding." Whose granddaughter, Sacks' or Jacobs'? -- Hugh7 ( talk) 06:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Rabbi Sacks is a terrific speaker, and an intellectual gem! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.139.114.199 ( talk • contribs) .
The suggestion that he personally blocked non-Orthodox participation in JABE is not evidenced by any of the coverage of this issue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.50.2.9 ( talk • contribs) .
I read the quote from Stanley Kalms, but to be fair this does not constitute evidence that the Chief Rabbi was the problem here. He was not reported anywhere as having been directly involved in the discussions, and it appears to have been his Beth Din who actually blocked the more collaborative approach. The Chief Rabbi has personally shared platforms with Reform Rabbis in recent years, for example at the Yom HaShoah service and the annual Ajex memorial service in Whitehall - so your comment about his atttude is unfair.
Articles on Wiki should be impartial, accurate and evidenced. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that the Chief Rabbi blocked this decision or even that he was personally approached as President of the organisation to resolve the matter.
Your suggestion that he tries to pretend that no other forms of judaism exist is highly subjective, and also disproven by the reports in this week's Jewish media that he convened talks with the leaders of all the main synagogue groups on Church Divestment from Israel. Rabbi Bayfield the Head of the Reform Movement regularly talks of his warm relationship with the Chief Rabbi. Furthermore, the Chief Rabbi has only ever claimed to articulate tradional Judaic principles - not to represent the Jewish comunity.
Orthoodx opposition
It has also been noted that it is not clear where he went to Yeshivah or indeed who his rabbis are, that would link him in to a chain of Torah tradition. These are considered paramount for orthodox Jews in general, and even more so for Jewish leaders. Secular degrees in philosophy are not seen as qualifications for rabbis, only a valid background in a recognised place of traditional Jewish learning with ordination for a highly respected rabbi in a section(s) of Jewish law. However, if the above is attained, and then a secular qualification is also attained some would see this as a positive benifit as long as there is a full grounding in classic Torah learning. This has been a source of contention from the orthodox viewpoint. It should be noted that Jew's college is not generally considered a classic yeshiva, but more of a modern blend of a college and a yeshivah-stlye approach to study. A budding student who wants a classic yeshiva education applies to a regular Yeshivah. Applications to Jews College is with secular A-levels and not with the usual Torah-based primary & secondry education that a yeshivah expects.
This paragraph cannot go back until it has source. "Who has noted?" You need an reliable external source. -- Jayrav 22:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
See the top template on defamation of living persons or poorly sourced material- if you revert it again then this page may be placed on a watch list and you may be banned. -- Jayrav 21:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The first sentence refers to Rabbi Sacks as "Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks." Which knighthood did he receive from the Queen, and why isn't it listed in the article along with the rest of his accolades? Micahbrwn 07:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC) See http://www.londongazette.co.uk/ViewPDF.aspx?pdf=57665&geotype=London&gpn=1&type=Supplement&exact=jonathan sacks 79.66.232.46 ( talk) 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Z
reference is made to his having been given a dd by the archbishop of canterbury. my general impression is that honourary degrees are conferred by academic institutions, not ecclesiastical leaders.but i don't know the vagaries of the british system. expanation please. Toyokuni3 ( talk) 02:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC) This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 18:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This edit was reverted -- but I think it was a good change. It is certainly more precise and aligned with what the rest of the lead says. I propose that it be adopted. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 18:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
The entire bent of this Wikipedia article is hostile to Rabbi Sacks, and displays a strong POV. The major focus of the article seems to be on all the negative things he is alleged to have done or said or the controversies or criticisms that have been made, many of which are quite marginal and even dubious factually or taken out of context and/or exaggerated. Much of this does not rise above petty imaginative gossip and malicious carping. One would not guess from the article that Rabbi Sacks has led the way in seeking inclusive policies within the Jewish community, engaging positively with all religious movements while clearly and with great dignity (and without defensiveness or offensive language, contrary to the impression given in this article) delineating the Orthodox position (which, since he is Chief Rabbi of the modern Orthodox community, should not surprise nor offend anyone), and as one commentator above has pointed out, cultivating warm relations with many figures in the Liberal and Reform sectors. Rabbi Sacks consistently avoids harsh black-white condemnations or anathemas. One would also not guess from this account that he has led the way in the wider non-Jewish community in inter-faith dialogue. Many of his books are devoted to creating a more harmonious relationship between all Jewish movements, and others zero in precisely on broader inter-faith and societal issues. He is admired throughout Britain in the non-Jewish religious world because of his indefatigable work to promote harmony between faiths, which is obviously why he has been given formal honors by the Archbishop of Canterbury and honorary doctorates by various universities as well as a knighthood and peerage by the British government. One of the only books by him mentioned specifically in this slanted review article, The Dignity of Difference, is entirely devoted to such issues, and indeed it offers a positive model of tolerance that arises integrally out of Judaism and that provides a new and much more positive way than most other proposed remedies for alleviating communal conflict, but one would not guess this from the article here where the book is only mentioned in terms of being offensive and controversial. No positive evaluation is given. Thus even in this detail the article is biased and one-sided.
Chief Rabbi Sacks has written many ground-breaking books in the areas of contemporary Jewish thought, which ought to be given some positive recognition here. He is certainly one of the most important Jewish philosophers of modern times, and is generally acknowledged as such. An account of his contributions to modern Jewish thought would be in place. He has also contributed major innovative proposals for the wider society, showing through his own books and deeds how Judaism can contribute to a better and more humane and inclusive society. Thus he is also a political philosopher and needs to be considered within the wider Western tradition relating to social thought and political philosophy. The omission of his place within both Jewish philosophy and general Western philosophy is only one of the many failures and omissions of this article. Because of this omission, however, we can get no idea from this article of whom the chief intellectual influences on Chief Rabbi Sacks were and are. The account of his life before and even in the rabbinate is simply inadequate and unworthy of the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.237.116 ( talk) 11:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I will add that I completely agree with the sentiment that there appears to be hostile bias against Rabbi Sacks. Specifically the section on his 'views' (which is badly named, as it is only some of his views, and not even his most significant ones. One of his apparent views is "accommodate Haredi Jews" which he has never even said himself, it's just been postulated by someone else...?) This is particularly worrying because this is a biography of a living person. The views section would be better titled (at the very least) 'controversies'. As that's what they are. Meanwhile, there should be effort to include the fact that Rabbi Sacks has in fact made incredible headway in the very areas some of these paragraphs suggest he's exacerbated (for example, in interfaith relations, in inter domination relations, and Orthodox Judaism relations with civil laws such as gay marriage.) I really think we should reflect on how inappropriate the implicit bias is in this article, and invest in balancing it. Noxiyu ( talk) 04:10, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
The section on secularism implies his opposition to it, although a lot of the references in that section seem to refer more to his attitudes to decreased religious observance rather than any increase in secularism. This quote:
Religion loves power and it should always be denied power [2]
suggests that his opinion of secularism isn't well represented here, but I'm not sure how to go about improving that. Jasonisme ( talk) 12:17, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
The reference given merely states that he is vegetarian nothing to do with religious position as implied by the link to Jewish vegetarian page which describes a particular religious basis which he may or may not have and which the reference didn't show. Reference merely showed incidental reference to him being vegetarian. Should replace Jewish vegetarian link and statement with vegetarian link and statement. Not every vegetarian who is Jewish will be a Jewish vegetarian as defined on that page as they may not do it for the described religious reasons on that page but for others e.g. he may have health issues or do it due to a different Halachic interpretation (not stated one on that page) or for another reason entirely. Either the jewish vegetarian link should be removed or a better reference given. 83.67.202.41 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS)
Can we have the "Awards Received" in the order of past to present? Buscus 3 ( talk) 23:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no need whatsoever for either the Rabbi Gryn incident or the controversy over Dignity of Difference to receive two extended, largely identical, discussions in the same article. Given that the version in Chief Rabbinate is written in a clearly POV fashion, uses highly unencyclopedic language ("it is regrettable" "noble and kind comments"), and almost certainly violates BLP, it seems that it should be the one of the two to be cut out. Given the rule that BOLP violations should be corrected immediately, I am deleting the repeated paragraphs in question, and moving those portions of them which seem sufficiently new and important to their corresponding passages. It may be better at this point to simply merge the two section, but I'm not making a call on that. g.j.g ( talk) 05:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I have corrected the spelling of "antisemitism" where it was shown as "anti-Semitism". Although the latter is widespread, it is the Microsoft Word auto-correct version, not the correct one. There is a specific meaning attached the word, and the former spellng is the one also adoped by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) Dori1951 ( talk) 14:52, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
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I have added a 'citation needed' tag next to the quotation on his 'two principles' (under section entitled 'Relationship with the non-Orthodox denominations' paragraph three). However, two more questions about citations. Citation 41 on Rabbi Louis Jacobs - first, the citation for the times links to payment wall to access the infortmation. Secondly, the statement "prevented the retired Rabbi Louis Jacobs ... from being called up for the Reading of the Torah..." this is a very vague and inaccurate statement to make. There were assumably many places that Rabbi Louis Jacobs could still be called up to read from the Torah - his own masorti synagogue for example - this prevention must have instead taken place in a specific synagogue that Jacobs was not a member of. The statement as is - at best - showing a thorough lack of understand on how or where someone can be 'called up' in a synagogue. And at worst, is quite inflamatory, that Rabbi Sacks or Beit Din has the power to prevent someone in every synagogue in the country. Seeing how this is the biolgraphy of a living person, this should definitely be updated. Also, citation 47 (on i, i, i culture) links to computersweekly - an online blog about computers. This isn't really a quality citation, and since there are others, I'm deleting it. It degrades from the quality of the article. Again, especially because this is an article on a living person. Noxiyu ( talk) 03:40, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
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This article could add Jonathan Sacks to the category called "Templeton Prize laureates" because, as the article itself says, Sacks won the Templeton Prize in 2016. Vorbee ( talk) 10:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
This article could note that Jonathan Sacks has presented a programme on BBC Radio Four called Morality in the Twenty-First Century, beginning in September 2018. Vorbee ( talk) 08:08, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
User:LeeSawyer ( diff) recently added to the article that Jonathan Sacks "was the nephew of neurologist and author Oliver Sacks", on the strength of this tribute in The Guardian, written by a Jonathan Sacks.
However, according to the tribute, that Jonathan Sacks was the son of a David Sacks who was "Oliver’s elder brother by nine years", so born c.1924 (Geni.com [3] gives dates of November 07, 1924 to January 11, 1993 ). In contrast, the Chief Rabbi's father, Louis David Sacks, was born on 13 Feb 1908, according to his entry for his 1996 death in the Registrations Index [4].
Also, Oliver Sack's family background was strongly medical; whereas I think the Chief Rabbi's was not.
So it would seem the concurrence of names was most likely a coincidence, and the two were not closely related. I have therefore removed this addition. Jheald ( talk) 19:38, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
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"A similar stance was taken by Sacks and his Beth Din when they prevented the retired rabbi Louis Jacobs, who had helped establish the British branch of the Masorti movement, from being called up for the Reading of the Torah on the Saturday before his granddaughter's wedding." Whose granddaughter, Sacks' or Jacobs'? -- Hugh7 ( talk) 06:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Rabbi Sacks is a terrific speaker, and an intellectual gem! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.139.114.199 ( talk • contribs) .
The suggestion that he personally blocked non-Orthodox participation in JABE is not evidenced by any of the coverage of this issue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.50.2.9 ( talk • contribs) .
I read the quote from Stanley Kalms, but to be fair this does not constitute evidence that the Chief Rabbi was the problem here. He was not reported anywhere as having been directly involved in the discussions, and it appears to have been his Beth Din who actually blocked the more collaborative approach. The Chief Rabbi has personally shared platforms with Reform Rabbis in recent years, for example at the Yom HaShoah service and the annual Ajex memorial service in Whitehall - so your comment about his atttude is unfair.
Articles on Wiki should be impartial, accurate and evidenced. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that the Chief Rabbi blocked this decision or even that he was personally approached as President of the organisation to resolve the matter.
Your suggestion that he tries to pretend that no other forms of judaism exist is highly subjective, and also disproven by the reports in this week's Jewish media that he convened talks with the leaders of all the main synagogue groups on Church Divestment from Israel. Rabbi Bayfield the Head of the Reform Movement regularly talks of his warm relationship with the Chief Rabbi. Furthermore, the Chief Rabbi has only ever claimed to articulate tradional Judaic principles - not to represent the Jewish comunity.
Orthoodx opposition
It has also been noted that it is not clear where he went to Yeshivah or indeed who his rabbis are, that would link him in to a chain of Torah tradition. These are considered paramount for orthodox Jews in general, and even more so for Jewish leaders. Secular degrees in philosophy are not seen as qualifications for rabbis, only a valid background in a recognised place of traditional Jewish learning with ordination for a highly respected rabbi in a section(s) of Jewish law. However, if the above is attained, and then a secular qualification is also attained some would see this as a positive benifit as long as there is a full grounding in classic Torah learning. This has been a source of contention from the orthodox viewpoint. It should be noted that Jew's college is not generally considered a classic yeshiva, but more of a modern blend of a college and a yeshivah-stlye approach to study. A budding student who wants a classic yeshiva education applies to a regular Yeshivah. Applications to Jews College is with secular A-levels and not with the usual Torah-based primary & secondry education that a yeshivah expects.
This paragraph cannot go back until it has source. "Who has noted?" You need an reliable external source. -- Jayrav 22:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
See the top template on defamation of living persons or poorly sourced material- if you revert it again then this page may be placed on a watch list and you may be banned. -- Jayrav 21:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
The first sentence refers to Rabbi Sacks as "Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks." Which knighthood did he receive from the Queen, and why isn't it listed in the article along with the rest of his accolades? Micahbrwn 07:22, 17 July 2007 (UTC) See http://www.londongazette.co.uk/ViewPDF.aspx?pdf=57665&geotype=London&gpn=1&type=Supplement&exact=jonathan sacks 79.66.232.46 ( talk) 18:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)Z
reference is made to his having been given a dd by the archbishop of canterbury. my general impression is that honourary degrees are conferred by academic institutions, not ecclesiastical leaders.but i don't know the vagaries of the british system. expanation please. Toyokuni3 ( talk) 02:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC) This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 18:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
This edit was reverted -- but I think it was a good change. It is certainly more precise and aligned with what the rest of the lead says. I propose that it be adopted. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 18:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
The entire bent of this Wikipedia article is hostile to Rabbi Sacks, and displays a strong POV. The major focus of the article seems to be on all the negative things he is alleged to have done or said or the controversies or criticisms that have been made, many of which are quite marginal and even dubious factually or taken out of context and/or exaggerated. Much of this does not rise above petty imaginative gossip and malicious carping. One would not guess from the article that Rabbi Sacks has led the way in seeking inclusive policies within the Jewish community, engaging positively with all religious movements while clearly and with great dignity (and without defensiveness or offensive language, contrary to the impression given in this article) delineating the Orthodox position (which, since he is Chief Rabbi of the modern Orthodox community, should not surprise nor offend anyone), and as one commentator above has pointed out, cultivating warm relations with many figures in the Liberal and Reform sectors. Rabbi Sacks consistently avoids harsh black-white condemnations or anathemas. One would also not guess from this account that he has led the way in the wider non-Jewish community in inter-faith dialogue. Many of his books are devoted to creating a more harmonious relationship between all Jewish movements, and others zero in precisely on broader inter-faith and societal issues. He is admired throughout Britain in the non-Jewish religious world because of his indefatigable work to promote harmony between faiths, which is obviously why he has been given formal honors by the Archbishop of Canterbury and honorary doctorates by various universities as well as a knighthood and peerage by the British government. One of the only books by him mentioned specifically in this slanted review article, The Dignity of Difference, is entirely devoted to such issues, and indeed it offers a positive model of tolerance that arises integrally out of Judaism and that provides a new and much more positive way than most other proposed remedies for alleviating communal conflict, but one would not guess this from the article here where the book is only mentioned in terms of being offensive and controversial. No positive evaluation is given. Thus even in this detail the article is biased and one-sided.
Chief Rabbi Sacks has written many ground-breaking books in the areas of contemporary Jewish thought, which ought to be given some positive recognition here. He is certainly one of the most important Jewish philosophers of modern times, and is generally acknowledged as such. An account of his contributions to modern Jewish thought would be in place. He has also contributed major innovative proposals for the wider society, showing through his own books and deeds how Judaism can contribute to a better and more humane and inclusive society. Thus he is also a political philosopher and needs to be considered within the wider Western tradition relating to social thought and political philosophy. The omission of his place within both Jewish philosophy and general Western philosophy is only one of the many failures and omissions of this article. Because of this omission, however, we can get no idea from this article of whom the chief intellectual influences on Chief Rabbi Sacks were and are. The account of his life before and even in the rabbinate is simply inadequate and unworthy of the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.237.116 ( talk) 11:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
I will add that I completely agree with the sentiment that there appears to be hostile bias against Rabbi Sacks. Specifically the section on his 'views' (which is badly named, as it is only some of his views, and not even his most significant ones. One of his apparent views is "accommodate Haredi Jews" which he has never even said himself, it's just been postulated by someone else...?) This is particularly worrying because this is a biography of a living person. The views section would be better titled (at the very least) 'controversies'. As that's what they are. Meanwhile, there should be effort to include the fact that Rabbi Sacks has in fact made incredible headway in the very areas some of these paragraphs suggest he's exacerbated (for example, in interfaith relations, in inter domination relations, and Orthodox Judaism relations with civil laws such as gay marriage.) I really think we should reflect on how inappropriate the implicit bias is in this article, and invest in balancing it. Noxiyu ( talk) 04:10, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
The section on secularism implies his opposition to it, although a lot of the references in that section seem to refer more to his attitudes to decreased religious observance rather than any increase in secularism. This quote:
Religion loves power and it should always be denied power [2]
suggests that his opinion of secularism isn't well represented here, but I'm not sure how to go about improving that. Jasonisme ( talk) 12:17, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
The reference given merely states that he is vegetarian nothing to do with religious position as implied by the link to Jewish vegetarian page which describes a particular religious basis which he may or may not have and which the reference didn't show. Reference merely showed incidental reference to him being vegetarian. Should replace Jewish vegetarian link and statement with vegetarian link and statement. Not every vegetarian who is Jewish will be a Jewish vegetarian as defined on that page as they may not do it for the described religious reasons on that page but for others e.g. he may have health issues or do it due to a different Halachic interpretation (not stated one on that page) or for another reason entirely. Either the jewish vegetarian link should be removed or a better reference given. 83.67.202.41 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS)
Can we have the "Awards Received" in the order of past to present? Buscus 3 ( talk) 23:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no need whatsoever for either the Rabbi Gryn incident or the controversy over Dignity of Difference to receive two extended, largely identical, discussions in the same article. Given that the version in Chief Rabbinate is written in a clearly POV fashion, uses highly unencyclopedic language ("it is regrettable" "noble and kind comments"), and almost certainly violates BLP, it seems that it should be the one of the two to be cut out. Given the rule that BOLP violations should be corrected immediately, I am deleting the repeated paragraphs in question, and moving those portions of them which seem sufficiently new and important to their corresponding passages. It may be better at this point to simply merge the two section, but I'm not making a call on that. g.j.g ( talk) 05:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
I have corrected the spelling of "antisemitism" where it was shown as "anti-Semitism". Although the latter is widespread, it is the Microsoft Word auto-correct version, not the correct one. There is a specific meaning attached the word, and the former spellng is the one also adoped by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) Dori1951 ( talk) 14:52, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:32, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I have added a 'citation needed' tag next to the quotation on his 'two principles' (under section entitled 'Relationship with the non-Orthodox denominations' paragraph three). However, two more questions about citations. Citation 41 on Rabbi Louis Jacobs - first, the citation for the times links to payment wall to access the infortmation. Secondly, the statement "prevented the retired Rabbi Louis Jacobs ... from being called up for the Reading of the Torah..." this is a very vague and inaccurate statement to make. There were assumably many places that Rabbi Louis Jacobs could still be called up to read from the Torah - his own masorti synagogue for example - this prevention must have instead taken place in a specific synagogue that Jacobs was not a member of. The statement as is - at best - showing a thorough lack of understand on how or where someone can be 'called up' in a synagogue. And at worst, is quite inflamatory, that Rabbi Sacks or Beit Din has the power to prevent someone in every synagogue in the country. Seeing how this is the biolgraphy of a living person, this should definitely be updated. Also, citation 47 (on i, i, i culture) links to computersweekly - an online blog about computers. This isn't really a quality citation, and since there are others, I'm deleting it. It degrades from the quality of the article. Again, especially because this is an article on a living person. Noxiyu ( talk) 03:40, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:17, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
This article could add Jonathan Sacks to the category called "Templeton Prize laureates" because, as the article itself says, Sacks won the Templeton Prize in 2016. Vorbee ( talk) 10:10, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
This article could note that Jonathan Sacks has presented a programme on BBC Radio Four called Morality in the Twenty-First Century, beginning in September 2018. Vorbee ( talk) 08:08, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
User:LeeSawyer ( diff) recently added to the article that Jonathan Sacks "was the nephew of neurologist and author Oliver Sacks", on the strength of this tribute in The Guardian, written by a Jonathan Sacks.
However, according to the tribute, that Jonathan Sacks was the son of a David Sacks who was "Oliver’s elder brother by nine years", so born c.1924 (Geni.com [3] gives dates of November 07, 1924 to January 11, 1993 ). In contrast, the Chief Rabbi's father, Louis David Sacks, was born on 13 Feb 1908, according to his entry for his 1996 death in the Registrations Index [4].
Also, Oliver Sack's family background was strongly medical; whereas I think the Chief Rabbi's was not.
So it would seem the concurrence of names was most likely a coincidence, and the two were not closely related. I have therefore removed this addition. Jheald ( talk) 19:38, 11 November 2020 (UTC)