John Sigismund Zápolya has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
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April 12, 2016. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
John Sigismund Zápolya, the only
Unitarian monarch in history, was the first
Prince of Transylvania? | ||||||||||
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I have conflicting sources here - Roland Bainton, Women of the Reformation from Spain to Scandinavia (Mineapolic, Minnesota, 1977) p226, describes his mother as being "the first ruler to issue an edict of universal toleration" in 1558 - yet here it says 1568 - I'm presuming Bainton was refering to the Edict of Turda - was the edict in form, but unpublished as statute law before this date? Dragonfang88 ( talk) 16:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Ah, perhaps that should be made clear??? It's quite handy information, it also makes it clear that Eastern Europe was way ahead of Western Europe in so far as religious toleration went Dragonfang88 ( talk) 19:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I reverted the addition of "vassal of the ottoman Empire" to "King of Hungary", because it's not clear whether John was an Ottoman vassal for that entire period (1540 to 1570). Clarification and/or some refs would help. -- Elphion ( talk) 02:24, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I think "John Sigismund Zápolya" would be better name of this page than the current one. He was a king as John II. Fakirbakir ( talk) 16:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
(Reference from edit summary: Talk:Voivode of Transylvania.)
I'm reverting these [1] edits not because I disagree with the content, but because they leave the article in a confusing state and delete some references without replacements. The meaning of "1540/59" is completely unclear. An expanded description of what was actually going on is needed. -- Elphion ( talk) 20:32, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Nagyon jó cikk lett, gratulálok. :) However, I think the last section about his rule as Prince of Transylvania is too short. John Sigismund died childess and his family became extinct after that (it should be also emphasized, I guess). In accordance with John's will, Gáspár Bekes should have succeed him as Voivode under the suzerainty of Emperor-King Maximilian. However the estates elected Báthory instead. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 22:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Why is it necessary to repeat "John Sigismund" everywhere, particularly in places where it is perfectly clear who is meant from "John" alone? -- Elphion ( talk) 04:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 15:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi! Will review this. Sainsf <^> Feel at home 15:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Update: A bit busy now, I think I will be able to get to this only by the end of this week. Cheers! Sainsf <^> Feel at home 18:44, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Borsoka: Found time for this. A well-written article! I have only a few comments to make: Sainsf <^> Feel at home 11:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I noticed no more issues with the prose of the article. Sources and copyvio possibility checked. These should be all the comments, when these are done I would be happy to promote the article. Great job! Sainsf <^> Feel at home 11:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Sainsf:, thank you for your review. I hope I fixed the above problems. Please contact me if further actions were needed. Borsoka ( talk) 18:09, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I've looked at several different sources all by reputable academic publishers including Brill, Routledge, Cambridge and Wiley. They give different dates for the conversion - Routledge gives the date for his conversion as 1558 but I think it may be a typo. Other sources say he had embraced Calvinism by 1559. Others say he had become Calvinist by 1562. Brill says he became Lutheran in 1562 - there are books that give lengthy analysis that contradicts this and there are no secondary citations for this passing remark in the book - are there any other sources that say he was Catholic or Lutheran and have a more detailed analysis? Seraphim System ( talk) 05:35, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
@ Seraphim System:, there is no debate among specialists of the history of Hungary during this period, that John Sigismund was born a Catholic, he converted from Catholicism to Lutheranism in the early 1560s, from Lutheranism to Calvinism before 1565, and died as a Unitarian. Borsoka ( talk) 05:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Whether or not there is debate there are sources that directly contradict this passing remark, which is primary for the author since it does not have any citations or footnotes. I am asking you to post further secondary sources with more in-depth analysis, otherwise I intend to change the article based on the sources that I have. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:04, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
These are the sources I have found. The section I am asking about, that says he was Lutheran is sourced entirely to a single sentence in Keul, I am looking for something more in-depth:
The last source does say he was raised by a Catholic monk, but he is mainly known as a Calvinist who later becomes Unitarian. Not every trivial detail needs to go into the infobox. And none of these sources say he was Lutheran, in fact the first Brill source by Brady says that he had been supporting Calvinists since 1559:
"While the Saxon "nation" identified itself with Lutheranism, the Transylvanian Magyars and many of them in Hungary proper went over to Calvinism, which received especially strong support from Transyvania's anti-Hapsburg nobles and since 1559 from it's rival king, Jan Sigismund Zapolya".
I have been looking for sources that say more about it for an hour so if your attitude is "No you do not need to see sources" and that is how you interact with other editors and sources, you should maybe reconsider whether Wikipedia is the right place for you, as it is supposed to be a collaborative environment and especially in an area like history which requires a mastery of many difficult and often contradictory sources. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:32, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
John Sigismund Zápolya has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
April 12, 2016. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that
John Sigismund Zápolya, the only
Unitarian monarch in history, was the first
Prince of Transylvania? | ||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 14, 2017, and March 14, 2021. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have conflicting sources here - Roland Bainton, Women of the Reformation from Spain to Scandinavia (Mineapolic, Minnesota, 1977) p226, describes his mother as being "the first ruler to issue an edict of universal toleration" in 1558 - yet here it says 1568 - I'm presuming Bainton was refering to the Edict of Turda - was the edict in form, but unpublished as statute law before this date? Dragonfang88 ( talk) 16:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Ah, perhaps that should be made clear??? It's quite handy information, it also makes it clear that Eastern Europe was way ahead of Western Europe in so far as religious toleration went Dragonfang88 ( talk) 19:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I reverted the addition of "vassal of the ottoman Empire" to "King of Hungary", because it's not clear whether John was an Ottoman vassal for that entire period (1540 to 1570). Clarification and/or some refs would help. -- Elphion ( talk) 02:24, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
I think "John Sigismund Zápolya" would be better name of this page than the current one. He was a king as John II. Fakirbakir ( talk) 16:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
(Reference from edit summary: Talk:Voivode of Transylvania.)
I'm reverting these [1] edits not because I disagree with the content, but because they leave the article in a confusing state and delete some references without replacements. The meaning of "1540/59" is completely unclear. An expanded description of what was actually going on is needed. -- Elphion ( talk) 20:32, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Nagyon jó cikk lett, gratulálok. :) However, I think the last section about his rule as Prince of Transylvania is too short. John Sigismund died childess and his family became extinct after that (it should be also emphasized, I guess). In accordance with John's will, Gáspár Bekes should have succeed him as Voivode under the suzerainty of Emperor-King Maximilian. However the estates elected Báthory instead. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 22:35, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Why is it necessary to repeat "John Sigismund" everywhere, particularly in places where it is perfectly clear who is meant from "John" alone? -- Elphion ( talk) 04:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 15:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi! Will review this. Sainsf <^> Feel at home 15:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Update: A bit busy now, I think I will be able to get to this only by the end of this week. Cheers! Sainsf <^> Feel at home 18:44, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Borsoka: Found time for this. A well-written article! I have only a few comments to make: Sainsf <^> Feel at home 11:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I noticed no more issues with the prose of the article. Sources and copyvio possibility checked. These should be all the comments, when these are done I would be happy to promote the article. Great job! Sainsf <^> Feel at home 11:37, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
@ Sainsf:, thank you for your review. I hope I fixed the above problems. Please contact me if further actions were needed. Borsoka ( talk) 18:09, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I've looked at several different sources all by reputable academic publishers including Brill, Routledge, Cambridge and Wiley. They give different dates for the conversion - Routledge gives the date for his conversion as 1558 but I think it may be a typo. Other sources say he had embraced Calvinism by 1559. Others say he had become Calvinist by 1562. Brill says he became Lutheran in 1562 - there are books that give lengthy analysis that contradicts this and there are no secondary citations for this passing remark in the book - are there any other sources that say he was Catholic or Lutheran and have a more detailed analysis? Seraphim System ( talk) 05:35, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
@ Seraphim System:, there is no debate among specialists of the history of Hungary during this period, that John Sigismund was born a Catholic, he converted from Catholicism to Lutheranism in the early 1560s, from Lutheranism to Calvinism before 1565, and died as a Unitarian. Borsoka ( talk) 05:36, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Whether or not there is debate there are sources that directly contradict this passing remark, which is primary for the author since it does not have any citations or footnotes. I am asking you to post further secondary sources with more in-depth analysis, otherwise I intend to change the article based on the sources that I have. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:04, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
These are the sources I have found. The section I am asking about, that says he was Lutheran is sourced entirely to a single sentence in Keul, I am looking for something more in-depth:
The last source does say he was raised by a Catholic monk, but he is mainly known as a Calvinist who later becomes Unitarian. Not every trivial detail needs to go into the infobox. And none of these sources say he was Lutheran, in fact the first Brill source by Brady says that he had been supporting Calvinists since 1559:
"While the Saxon "nation" identified itself with Lutheranism, the Transylvanian Magyars and many of them in Hungary proper went over to Calvinism, which received especially strong support from Transyvania's anti-Hapsburg nobles and since 1559 from it's rival king, Jan Sigismund Zapolya".
I have been looking for sources that say more about it for an hour so if your attitude is "No you do not need to see sources" and that is how you interact with other editors and sources, you should maybe reconsider whether Wikipedia is the right place for you, as it is supposed to be a collaborative environment and especially in an area like history which requires a mastery of many difficult and often contradictory sources. Seraphim System ( talk) 06:32, 17 December 2017 (UTC)