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"Ruskin the reluctant conchologist", by S. Peter Dance, Journal of the History of Collections, May 2004, vol. 16, no. 1, pp. 35-46(12) (Publisher: Oxford University Press) - suggests that although Ruskin collected shells (especially during his boyhood, then again during his later years, partly due to his friendships with Henrietta Carey, an early member of the St George's Guild, and Sydney Carlyle Cockerel, both conchologists themselves), and did produce several remarkable pictures of them, he cared little for their scientific study, keeping them rather as objects of beauty, and also found them rather frustrating to draw. If anybody wants to thread some of this information into the main article they are welcome to, but it is presently absurdly short, and putting in information about this hobby of this would seem to be premature! I have classed him as a conchologist nonetheless.
The article, after mentioning Ruskin's annulment of marriage in 1854, had stated that he later fell in love with Adele Domecq and Rose LaTouche. Adele Domecq, however, was someone whom Ruskin met in 1836, when they were both adolescents. His frustrated love for her continued over the next few years. When he met her again in 1839, she was engaged to someone else. This was his last meeting with her. I therefore deleted mention of her name as someone whom Ruskin fell in love with later in life. I did not add her name elsewhere in the article. She is perhaps not without relevance to an article on Ruskin; it has been said that his unrequited love for her caused him, along with a tubercular attack, to take a temporary leave from Oxford during his student days. But the article as it stands should be expanded where it is most deficient- namely, description of Ruskin's artistic theories, his own accomplished drawings, and the general content of his works and his prose style. I therefore omitted mention of Adele Domecq on the grounds that it would be a not particularly necessary addition and would be better replaced with other, more needed additions. - InvisibleSun 8/22/05
"Until 2005, biographies of both J. M. W. Turner and Ruskin had claimed that in 1858 Ruskin burned bundles of erotic paintings and drawings by Turner, in order to protect Turner's posthumous reputation. In 2005, these same works by Turner were discovered in a neglected British archive, proving that Ruskin did not destroy them."
Interesting... Source? There's no mention of this on the Turner page.
Added cite PiCo 10:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Kilaiditis: I think he also burned a copy of Goya's Caprichos!
A discussion on the Victoriana mailing list re the "pubic hair" myth and a reference there to Wikipedia as propagating the myth persuaded me to come here and work on the article. I have included the gist of the discussion on Victoriana (a list inhabited primarily by English professors) re tracing the rumor to Mary Lutyens. I should cite Lutyens in the references, and give a page ref as well. I don't know if I will be able to get a copy of the book; anyone else who can supply the missing information is welcome to do so!
I also took the liberty of reorganizing the article, which seemed to be somewhat jumbled and hard to read. I separated the life and work, and added separate sections for biographies (which should be expanded), legacy, and controversies. I think putting the article into sections makes it more readable -- however, there could be BETTER ways of defining and organizing them. Other sections could be added, too. So I'm not going to make a fuss if other editors rearrange yet again.
The prose in both sections does not flow cleanly, and there are many gaps in the information given. Both the life and the work could use some amplification. I don't know if I will be able to do this -- I am working on too many Wikipedia articles as it is. The regular editors may be able to fill this gap, if I can't.
I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes. I just wanted to make sure that if any of the English professors on Victoriana stopped here again, they'd find a spiffed up article with Lutyens' speculation clearly marked as such. Zora 22:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
We can't really think that the issue of whether Ruskin was repulsed by his first wife's pubic hair is sufficiently noteworthy to be so dominantly included in such a short summary of his work and life as it is now, can we? Does anyone object to reducing this to more of a passing reference so that it assumes a more appropriate place in the context of his work? Alternately, can someone volunteer facts demonstrating what meaningful impact, if any, this biographical speculation has on the interpretation of his writing?
"The idea that he did not know what women looked like is a nonsense. It is frankly irritating." There are no sources at the time that mention this at all. This is all written well afterward with all evidence pointing to the contrary. How many other artists got shocked by pubic hair ? http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/mar/14/john-ruskin-wedding-effie-gray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.89.73.107 ( talk) 19:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
For well over a hundred years, biographers and artists and art students have taken a voluptuous delight in speculating what it was about Effie's person that was so "disgusting" to Ruskin that he didn't consummate their marriage. The probable answer lies in one biographer's bleak statement, well after Ruskin's life ended: "John Ruskin is never known to have had sex with anyone, ever." Ruskin was impotent. He knew it, of course. His remark about Effie was his particularly contemptible attempt to deflect speculation about his own shortcomings. Younggoldchip ( talk) 16:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Well yes, why not write something about his amazing talents as a teacher. Claude Monet once stated that "ninety percent of the theory of Impressionist painting is in Ruskin's Elements of Drawing (1857)" (Contemporary Review - March 1911 see: Lawrence Campbell's introduction to Ruskin's "The Elements of Drawing." -Dover ed. 1971) ( 84.193.174.59 11:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
Couldn't title that better, somehow. It may have only been in the preface to the selected Ruskin in Pelican that I used to have, but I think it was a comment from another source that tweaked me to get the Pelican anthology anyway. Thing is, I'm from Ruskin, B.C. so always had the curiosity; wound up in a cultural geography course years later and clued in to why the Ruskin powerhouse has a gothic flavour that other BCER powerhouses don't have; "the epitome of modern architecture" in was pronounced in the Vancouver rags in, um, 1931 (bit of art deco in there, come to think of it). So somewhere in my asking and reading around about the guy, since his followers were a part of the history a few addresses down the road (past the swamp and the drive-in theatre, now a pair of trailer parks), something I read said something or other about Ruskin's writing being the epitome of English prose, the finest-wrought though not in fiction or poetry, more in pure description; the citation was in ref to passages of The Stones of Venice, I think. I didn't just want to add, on the main article, "his writing is considered to be among the finest prose written in English", especially if there might be an actual quote/cite out there. Anyone recognize this and might know the cite, or at least the critic whose opinion it was? Skookum1 05:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
...best known for his work as an art critic and social critic, but is remembered as an author, poet and artist as well...
By whom? I know him as an author and poet, but not as a critic or artist. Joe down the road may have some other viewpoint on the man, his life and his works. This bald statement, coming as it does right at the start of the article, gives it a rather subjective tone. Better, I think, to list what makes Ruskin famous, without giving precedence to some aspects of his work over others. Later in the piece, assuming there is documentary support for the opinions, the better-knownedness of some fields could be mentioned, if the contributor considers it important.--
King Hildebrand
17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Ruskin's positive contribution to the creation of the concept of common welfare, and the welfare state?
An obscure (?) american documentary called "the capitalist conspiracy" claims that ruskin is supposed to have advocated "the rule of one man over all others", an idea similar to enlightened ... what's the expression in english again.
anyone know anything of this quote?
I guess Ruskin was too early to anticipate Hitler etc. but seems he should have, living with enough despots and powerful not so benevolent ruling monarchs at the time.
I feel a greater paragraph on his politics is needed, especially on a man that has influenced people like Tolstoj, Oscar wilde, the british Labour Party and so on. I'm no expert on ruskin but I'll try dig up some more that can shed light on why he was considered so important by his close contemporaries.
-
John Smith (nom de guerre)
09:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
From Pedophilia
"The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (F65.4) defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age." [1]
The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia": [2]
The APA diagnostic criteria do not require actual sexual activity with a pre-pubescent youths. The diagnosis can therefore be made based on the presence of fantasies or sexual urges alone, provided the subject meets the remaining criteria. "For individuals in late adolescence with Pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used." (p. 527 DSM). [3]"
As you can presumably see, it is inaccurate to use the term "paedophilic inclinations", as one cannot be inclined to be primarily or exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children.
As far as the edit about behaviour is concerned, the DSM, quoted above, makes it clear that a diagnosis of pedophilia can be made without the person having engaged in any behaviour. As such, Batchelor's claim is incorrect and makes no sense; this must be made clear to Wikipedia's readers. Barry Jameson ( talk) 14:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
References
There is a Ruskin Street in West Roxbury (Boston) MA US, which is also the home of Brook Farm community. Perhaps this street was named after John Ruskin. Are there any sources to pin this down? - 69.87.204.40 ( talk) 01:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Recently the file File:John Ruskin by James Northcote.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. It shows John Ruskin as a 3-year-old child in 1822. Dcoetzee 23:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
The BBC programme In Our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg has an episode which may be about this subject (if not moving this note to the appropriate talk page earns cookies). You can add it to "External links" by pasting * {{In Our Time|John Ruskin|p003k9bv}}. Rich Farmbrough, 03:16, 16 September 2010 (UTC).
It looks to me like this revision [ revision] may be vandalism. It adds an unsourced "letter to his physician", containing some implausible innuendo and a bizarre reference to Connie Gilchrist (not born until the early 20th century), and is from an IP address known to have committed vandalism in the past. Maybe someone better informed could take a look? -- 87.114.11.116 ( talk) 21:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
::::It's two lines long… Seems fine to me.
Span (
talk)
21:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC).
The phrase "especially its geologist" in the article strikes me as probably containing a typographical error, but I'm not sure how its author intended it to read. Would its author care to correct it (or explain here why it's correct as it stands)? Tonydwyer2001 ( talk) 00:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
The very bottom of the article has a table of information about Ghandi. The only connection with Ruskin is that Ruskin was one of Ghandi's influences. I don't think that this was the only person Ruskin influenced, nor the only person who influenced Ghandi. Maybe someone who knows how may want to unlink this table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.138.44 ( talk) 13:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
'For Effie, Venice provided an opportunity to socialise. Whilst she met with the Austrian 1st lieutenant, Charles Paulizza, Ruskin was engaged in solitary studies. Their London life was much the same. Returning to Venice in September 1851, Effie discovered that Paulizza was dead.'
In the Oxford section, you say 'Before he returned, he answered a challenge set down by Effie Gray, whom he later married.' This does not really tell us anything. It should say who she was, and how they had met. And what sort of 'challenge' was this anyway? Valetude ( talk) 03:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Nothing on his influence by Max Muller, and the Vedas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.55.165 ( talk) 16:55, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Somebody really ought to do something about that. Rayner-hills ( talk) 19:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Ah well there's only two graven images (ahem ahem ahem - sorry) in the article, and you can quite clearly see from the photo, written on the Tomb, that the first one is John Ruskin's; not his father. Also I'm pretty sure I recognise the other one to be the Shirley parish, the resting place of Ruskin's father (I live 20 minutes from there). Sorry I'm a bit of a Wikipedia newbie to change it myself. :/ - Regards! Rayner-hills ( talk) 20:43, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Actually, thinking on it more, perhaps I'm misinterpreting the text on the side of the facade of the first image of the tomb?? Looking closer at the other picture, I'm not actually sure that is Shirley, whilst the tomb could very well be St John The Evangelist Church Yard; there's little in the way of paths in that cemetery. My how embarrassing! Still better I vocalise the mistake here, in case other people were wondering. Tell you what I'll visit that church tomorrow myself and make sure of it, but assume indeed that I am wrong. Cheers. Rayner-hills ( talk) 20:57, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes I am standing now, next to the tomb of the first image in Shirley. I was indeed entirely and 100% wrong. My goodness. Rayner-hills ( talk) 14:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
The article tells us:
Barony House in Edinburgh is home to a descendant of John Ruskin who has designed and hand painted various friezes in honour of her ancestor and it is open to the public. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
This tells us nothing about John Ruskin. However benevolently intended, it reads like an ad for a B&B. I'm about to delete it. -- Hoary ( talk) 01:25, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Ruskin was a LL.D and DCL. There's not a word about it in the article. 31.173.82.4 ( talk) 00:28, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
"an uncommon honorary double fourth-class degree" makes no sense and it is not referenced, so I am going to delete it. -- Bduke ( talk) 08:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
I can see why you've deleted it but maybe this should be reconsidered. There is a reference to it at p.69 of Hilton's 2002 biography (a conflated version of his two volume work, which I can't access). A double degree would normally now be called a joint honours degree. Sbishop ( talk) 11:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Ruskin ought to be listed as Scottish rather than English. His mother and father were Scottish, he identified as Scottish. He is just as Scottish as Thomas Carlyle or Walter Scott, and just as un-English as the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinopecynic ( talk • contribs) 06:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
In my studies of Carlyle, I have come across several sources that identify Ruskin as having been embraced in the Third Reich. From "Hitler, Adolf" in The Carlyle Encyclopedia (2004), "Carlyle and his student John Ruskin were seen as early British National Socialists." And "In 1941 William McGovern's From Luther to Hitler identified both Carlyle and Ruskin as thinkers who made Nazism possible." From the Carlyle chapter of Victorian Prose: A Guide to Research (1973), "G. I. Morris in 'Divine Hitler' (NS [Die Neueren Sprachen], 1935) cites his own experience ... A headmaster had told his students that 'Ruskin and Carlyle were the first National Socialists.'"
This seems substantial enough to place in the article, perhaps under "Legacy, Politics and critique of political economy". It can hardly belong under "Controversies", as this is rather obscure information. The reason I am creating this new section is to see if more knowledgable editors can show me that this has been addressed elsewhere, perhaps outside of Carlyle Studies, to get a clearer picture of the Nazis' reading of Ruskin. Sinopecynic ( talk) 10:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
The article reads "In addition to this, Ruskin "threw himself into" personal work for the Committee..."
which makes no sense. The Committee opposed Eyre's suppression of the uprising. Ruskin was a contributor to the Fund, which supported Eyre's action. Does the writer mean the Fund instead of the Committee? Chenopodiaceous ( talk) 17:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Ruskin and Carlyle referred to the Defence as the "Defence Committee" and also the "Eyre Committee" generally (see Cook & Wedderburn, 18.xlvi). It is understandable that this would create confusion; I will promptly amend it. Sinopecynic ( talk) 03:21, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
While I respect the desire of admirers of Ruskin not have him labelled a child molester, I find the concluding quotation on Ruskin's sexuality bizarre. This reads: "when it comes to matters of sexual capability and interest, there is every reason to conclude that John Ruskin was physically and emotionally normal". At the very least the article indicates that he was neurotic: Ruskin was repulsed by the idea of intercourse, and preferred the company of pre-pubescent girls, and looking at naked, or scantily clad, pictures of them. The article describes him falling love with Effie Gray when she was 12, but after marrying her, when she was 19, failing to consummate the marriage. There is, however, no indication of criminal behaviour by Ruskin and he would probably be disgusted by the idea of any overt sexual relationship with a child. However, words like 'voyeurism' and 'nympholepsy', do suggest themselves. I recognize that there is a problem in using the word paedophilia, because of the criminal connotations associated with it, but it does seem that Ruskin fits the definition of this psychological disorder, because he was sexually attracted to young girls, even though here's no evidence he molested any child. It is worth remembering that prior to 1875, the age of consent was 12 and only in1885 was it raised to 16. So Ruskin could have legally married Effie Gray when she was 12! I have read the Victorian web article on this topic, which fails to adequately explore the topic. Rwood128 ( talk) 16:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
User:Ponsonby100. I now better understand you. That is that the histories of the parts of the UK differ. However, the statutes mentioned in the following quotation relate to the whole of United Kingdom: 'In 1875, the Offences Against the Person Act raised the age to 13 in Great Britain and Ireland, and ten years later the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 raised it to 16.' [1] [2] Can you plese revert your edit, or fully explain why England is correct. Also I see reference only to children not to females (but I only made a quick scan). Rwood128 ( talk) 20:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
References
So we have an "engraving" "c.1860" by an artist who apparently was 14 years old at the time.
And the clothes, hair and pose are exactly as in the initial photo (taken in 1863), so it's a copy of some other photo taken during the same session. It looks like a standard large-format magazine woodcut of the 1870s/1880s (which is how paintings and photos were reproduced in those days). 2A02:AA1:1049:B8AA:B4A8:5B1F:F9EC:5F89 ( talk) 14:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
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"Ruskin the reluctant conchologist", by S. Peter Dance, Journal of the History of Collections, May 2004, vol. 16, no. 1, pp. 35-46(12) (Publisher: Oxford University Press) - suggests that although Ruskin collected shells (especially during his boyhood, then again during his later years, partly due to his friendships with Henrietta Carey, an early member of the St George's Guild, and Sydney Carlyle Cockerel, both conchologists themselves), and did produce several remarkable pictures of them, he cared little for their scientific study, keeping them rather as objects of beauty, and also found them rather frustrating to draw. If anybody wants to thread some of this information into the main article they are welcome to, but it is presently absurdly short, and putting in information about this hobby of this would seem to be premature! I have classed him as a conchologist nonetheless.
The article, after mentioning Ruskin's annulment of marriage in 1854, had stated that he later fell in love with Adele Domecq and Rose LaTouche. Adele Domecq, however, was someone whom Ruskin met in 1836, when they were both adolescents. His frustrated love for her continued over the next few years. When he met her again in 1839, she was engaged to someone else. This was his last meeting with her. I therefore deleted mention of her name as someone whom Ruskin fell in love with later in life. I did not add her name elsewhere in the article. She is perhaps not without relevance to an article on Ruskin; it has been said that his unrequited love for her caused him, along with a tubercular attack, to take a temporary leave from Oxford during his student days. But the article as it stands should be expanded where it is most deficient- namely, description of Ruskin's artistic theories, his own accomplished drawings, and the general content of his works and his prose style. I therefore omitted mention of Adele Domecq on the grounds that it would be a not particularly necessary addition and would be better replaced with other, more needed additions. - InvisibleSun 8/22/05
"Until 2005, biographies of both J. M. W. Turner and Ruskin had claimed that in 1858 Ruskin burned bundles of erotic paintings and drawings by Turner, in order to protect Turner's posthumous reputation. In 2005, these same works by Turner were discovered in a neglected British archive, proving that Ruskin did not destroy them."
Interesting... Source? There's no mention of this on the Turner page.
Added cite PiCo 10:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Kilaiditis: I think he also burned a copy of Goya's Caprichos!
A discussion on the Victoriana mailing list re the "pubic hair" myth and a reference there to Wikipedia as propagating the myth persuaded me to come here and work on the article. I have included the gist of the discussion on Victoriana (a list inhabited primarily by English professors) re tracing the rumor to Mary Lutyens. I should cite Lutyens in the references, and give a page ref as well. I don't know if I will be able to get a copy of the book; anyone else who can supply the missing information is welcome to do so!
I also took the liberty of reorganizing the article, which seemed to be somewhat jumbled and hard to read. I separated the life and work, and added separate sections for biographies (which should be expanded), legacy, and controversies. I think putting the article into sections makes it more readable -- however, there could be BETTER ways of defining and organizing them. Other sections could be added, too. So I'm not going to make a fuss if other editors rearrange yet again.
The prose in both sections does not flow cleanly, and there are many gaps in the information given. Both the life and the work could use some amplification. I don't know if I will be able to do this -- I am working on too many Wikipedia articles as it is. The regular editors may be able to fill this gap, if I can't.
I hope I haven't stepped on too many toes. I just wanted to make sure that if any of the English professors on Victoriana stopped here again, they'd find a spiffed up article with Lutyens' speculation clearly marked as such. Zora 22:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
We can't really think that the issue of whether Ruskin was repulsed by his first wife's pubic hair is sufficiently noteworthy to be so dominantly included in such a short summary of his work and life as it is now, can we? Does anyone object to reducing this to more of a passing reference so that it assumes a more appropriate place in the context of his work? Alternately, can someone volunteer facts demonstrating what meaningful impact, if any, this biographical speculation has on the interpretation of his writing?
"The idea that he did not know what women looked like is a nonsense. It is frankly irritating." There are no sources at the time that mention this at all. This is all written well afterward with all evidence pointing to the contrary. How many other artists got shocked by pubic hair ? http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/mar/14/john-ruskin-wedding-effie-gray — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.89.73.107 ( talk) 19:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
For well over a hundred years, biographers and artists and art students have taken a voluptuous delight in speculating what it was about Effie's person that was so "disgusting" to Ruskin that he didn't consummate their marriage. The probable answer lies in one biographer's bleak statement, well after Ruskin's life ended: "John Ruskin is never known to have had sex with anyone, ever." Ruskin was impotent. He knew it, of course. His remark about Effie was his particularly contemptible attempt to deflect speculation about his own shortcomings. Younggoldchip ( talk) 16:11, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Well yes, why not write something about his amazing talents as a teacher. Claude Monet once stated that "ninety percent of the theory of Impressionist painting is in Ruskin's Elements of Drawing (1857)" (Contemporary Review - March 1911 see: Lawrence Campbell's introduction to Ruskin's "The Elements of Drawing." -Dover ed. 1971) ( 84.193.174.59 11:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
Couldn't title that better, somehow. It may have only been in the preface to the selected Ruskin in Pelican that I used to have, but I think it was a comment from another source that tweaked me to get the Pelican anthology anyway. Thing is, I'm from Ruskin, B.C. so always had the curiosity; wound up in a cultural geography course years later and clued in to why the Ruskin powerhouse has a gothic flavour that other BCER powerhouses don't have; "the epitome of modern architecture" in was pronounced in the Vancouver rags in, um, 1931 (bit of art deco in there, come to think of it). So somewhere in my asking and reading around about the guy, since his followers were a part of the history a few addresses down the road (past the swamp and the drive-in theatre, now a pair of trailer parks), something I read said something or other about Ruskin's writing being the epitome of English prose, the finest-wrought though not in fiction or poetry, more in pure description; the citation was in ref to passages of The Stones of Venice, I think. I didn't just want to add, on the main article, "his writing is considered to be among the finest prose written in English", especially if there might be an actual quote/cite out there. Anyone recognize this and might know the cite, or at least the critic whose opinion it was? Skookum1 05:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
...best known for his work as an art critic and social critic, but is remembered as an author, poet and artist as well...
By whom? I know him as an author and poet, but not as a critic or artist. Joe down the road may have some other viewpoint on the man, his life and his works. This bald statement, coming as it does right at the start of the article, gives it a rather subjective tone. Better, I think, to list what makes Ruskin famous, without giving precedence to some aspects of his work over others. Later in the piece, assuming there is documentary support for the opinions, the better-knownedness of some fields could be mentioned, if the contributor considers it important.--
King Hildebrand
17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Ruskin's positive contribution to the creation of the concept of common welfare, and the welfare state?
An obscure (?) american documentary called "the capitalist conspiracy" claims that ruskin is supposed to have advocated "the rule of one man over all others", an idea similar to enlightened ... what's the expression in english again.
anyone know anything of this quote?
I guess Ruskin was too early to anticipate Hitler etc. but seems he should have, living with enough despots and powerful not so benevolent ruling monarchs at the time.
I feel a greater paragraph on his politics is needed, especially on a man that has influenced people like Tolstoj, Oscar wilde, the british Labour Party and so on. I'm no expert on ruskin but I'll try dig up some more that can shed light on why he was considered so important by his close contemporaries.
-
John Smith (nom de guerre)
09:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
From Pedophilia
"The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (F65.4) defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age." [1]
The APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia": [2]
The APA diagnostic criteria do not require actual sexual activity with a pre-pubescent youths. The diagnosis can therefore be made based on the presence of fantasies or sexual urges alone, provided the subject meets the remaining criteria. "For individuals in late adolescence with Pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used." (p. 527 DSM). [3]"
As you can presumably see, it is inaccurate to use the term "paedophilic inclinations", as one cannot be inclined to be primarily or exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children.
As far as the edit about behaviour is concerned, the DSM, quoted above, makes it clear that a diagnosis of pedophilia can be made without the person having engaged in any behaviour. As such, Batchelor's claim is incorrect and makes no sense; this must be made clear to Wikipedia's readers. Barry Jameson ( talk) 14:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
References
There is a Ruskin Street in West Roxbury (Boston) MA US, which is also the home of Brook Farm community. Perhaps this street was named after John Ruskin. Are there any sources to pin this down? - 69.87.204.40 ( talk) 01:53, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Recently the file File:John Ruskin by James Northcote.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. It shows John Ruskin as a 3-year-old child in 1822. Dcoetzee 23:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
The BBC programme In Our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg has an episode which may be about this subject (if not moving this note to the appropriate talk page earns cookies). You can add it to "External links" by pasting * {{In Our Time|John Ruskin|p003k9bv}}. Rich Farmbrough, 03:16, 16 September 2010 (UTC).
It looks to me like this revision [ revision] may be vandalism. It adds an unsourced "letter to his physician", containing some implausible innuendo and a bizarre reference to Connie Gilchrist (not born until the early 20th century), and is from an IP address known to have committed vandalism in the past. Maybe someone better informed could take a look? -- 87.114.11.116 ( talk) 21:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
::::It's two lines long… Seems fine to me.
Span (
talk)
21:29, 9 March 2011 (UTC).
The phrase "especially its geologist" in the article strikes me as probably containing a typographical error, but I'm not sure how its author intended it to read. Would its author care to correct it (or explain here why it's correct as it stands)? Tonydwyer2001 ( talk) 00:46, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
The very bottom of the article has a table of information about Ghandi. The only connection with Ruskin is that Ruskin was one of Ghandi's influences. I don't think that this was the only person Ruskin influenced, nor the only person who influenced Ghandi. Maybe someone who knows how may want to unlink this table. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.138.44 ( talk) 13:57, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
'For Effie, Venice provided an opportunity to socialise. Whilst she met with the Austrian 1st lieutenant, Charles Paulizza, Ruskin was engaged in solitary studies. Their London life was much the same. Returning to Venice in September 1851, Effie discovered that Paulizza was dead.'
In the Oxford section, you say 'Before he returned, he answered a challenge set down by Effie Gray, whom he later married.' This does not really tell us anything. It should say who she was, and how they had met. And what sort of 'challenge' was this anyway? Valetude ( talk) 03:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Nothing on his influence by Max Muller, and the Vedas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.55.165 ( talk) 16:55, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Somebody really ought to do something about that. Rayner-hills ( talk) 19:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Ah well there's only two graven images (ahem ahem ahem - sorry) in the article, and you can quite clearly see from the photo, written on the Tomb, that the first one is John Ruskin's; not his father. Also I'm pretty sure I recognise the other one to be the Shirley parish, the resting place of Ruskin's father (I live 20 minutes from there). Sorry I'm a bit of a Wikipedia newbie to change it myself. :/ - Regards! Rayner-hills ( talk) 20:43, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Actually, thinking on it more, perhaps I'm misinterpreting the text on the side of the facade of the first image of the tomb?? Looking closer at the other picture, I'm not actually sure that is Shirley, whilst the tomb could very well be St John The Evangelist Church Yard; there's little in the way of paths in that cemetery. My how embarrassing! Still better I vocalise the mistake here, in case other people were wondering. Tell you what I'll visit that church tomorrow myself and make sure of it, but assume indeed that I am wrong. Cheers. Rayner-hills ( talk) 20:57, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes I am standing now, next to the tomb of the first image in Shirley. I was indeed entirely and 100% wrong. My goodness. Rayner-hills ( talk) 14:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
The article tells us:
Barony House in Edinburgh is home to a descendant of John Ruskin who has designed and hand painted various friezes in honour of her ancestor and it is open to the public. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]
This tells us nothing about John Ruskin. However benevolently intended, it reads like an ad for a B&B. I'm about to delete it. -- Hoary ( talk) 01:25, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Ruskin was a LL.D and DCL. There's not a word about it in the article. 31.173.82.4 ( talk) 00:28, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
"an uncommon honorary double fourth-class degree" makes no sense and it is not referenced, so I am going to delete it. -- Bduke ( talk) 08:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
I can see why you've deleted it but maybe this should be reconsidered. There is a reference to it at p.69 of Hilton's 2002 biography (a conflated version of his two volume work, which I can't access). A double degree would normally now be called a joint honours degree. Sbishop ( talk) 11:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Ruskin ought to be listed as Scottish rather than English. His mother and father were Scottish, he identified as Scottish. He is just as Scottish as Thomas Carlyle or Walter Scott, and just as un-English as the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sinopecynic ( talk • contribs) 06:02, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
In my studies of Carlyle, I have come across several sources that identify Ruskin as having been embraced in the Third Reich. From "Hitler, Adolf" in The Carlyle Encyclopedia (2004), "Carlyle and his student John Ruskin were seen as early British National Socialists." And "In 1941 William McGovern's From Luther to Hitler identified both Carlyle and Ruskin as thinkers who made Nazism possible." From the Carlyle chapter of Victorian Prose: A Guide to Research (1973), "G. I. Morris in 'Divine Hitler' (NS [Die Neueren Sprachen], 1935) cites his own experience ... A headmaster had told his students that 'Ruskin and Carlyle were the first National Socialists.'"
This seems substantial enough to place in the article, perhaps under "Legacy, Politics and critique of political economy". It can hardly belong under "Controversies", as this is rather obscure information. The reason I am creating this new section is to see if more knowledgable editors can show me that this has been addressed elsewhere, perhaps outside of Carlyle Studies, to get a clearer picture of the Nazis' reading of Ruskin. Sinopecynic ( talk) 10:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
The article reads "In addition to this, Ruskin "threw himself into" personal work for the Committee..."
which makes no sense. The Committee opposed Eyre's suppression of the uprising. Ruskin was a contributor to the Fund, which supported Eyre's action. Does the writer mean the Fund instead of the Committee? Chenopodiaceous ( talk) 17:46, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Ruskin and Carlyle referred to the Defence as the "Defence Committee" and also the "Eyre Committee" generally (see Cook & Wedderburn, 18.xlvi). It is understandable that this would create confusion; I will promptly amend it. Sinopecynic ( talk) 03:21, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
While I respect the desire of admirers of Ruskin not have him labelled a child molester, I find the concluding quotation on Ruskin's sexuality bizarre. This reads: "when it comes to matters of sexual capability and interest, there is every reason to conclude that John Ruskin was physically and emotionally normal". At the very least the article indicates that he was neurotic: Ruskin was repulsed by the idea of intercourse, and preferred the company of pre-pubescent girls, and looking at naked, or scantily clad, pictures of them. The article describes him falling love with Effie Gray when she was 12, but after marrying her, when she was 19, failing to consummate the marriage. There is, however, no indication of criminal behaviour by Ruskin and he would probably be disgusted by the idea of any overt sexual relationship with a child. However, words like 'voyeurism' and 'nympholepsy', do suggest themselves. I recognize that there is a problem in using the word paedophilia, because of the criminal connotations associated with it, but it does seem that Ruskin fits the definition of this psychological disorder, because he was sexually attracted to young girls, even though here's no evidence he molested any child. It is worth remembering that prior to 1875, the age of consent was 12 and only in1885 was it raised to 16. So Ruskin could have legally married Effie Gray when she was 12! I have read the Victorian web article on this topic, which fails to adequately explore the topic. Rwood128 ( talk) 16:48, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
User:Ponsonby100. I now better understand you. That is that the histories of the parts of the UK differ. However, the statutes mentioned in the following quotation relate to the whole of United Kingdom: 'In 1875, the Offences Against the Person Act raised the age to 13 in Great Britain and Ireland, and ten years later the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 raised it to 16.' [1] [2] Can you plese revert your edit, or fully explain why England is correct. Also I see reference only to children not to females (but I only made a quick scan). Rwood128 ( talk) 20:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
References
So we have an "engraving" "c.1860" by an artist who apparently was 14 years old at the time.
And the clothes, hair and pose are exactly as in the initial photo (taken in 1863), so it's a copy of some other photo taken during the same session. It looks like a standard large-format magazine woodcut of the 1870s/1880s (which is how paintings and photos were reproduced in those days). 2A02:AA1:1049:B8AA:B4A8:5B1F:F9EC:5F89 ( talk) 14:51, 24 December 2023 (UTC)