This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Bolton article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Archive 1 (2005) |
this edit of mine states:
From 2013 until March 2018, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a nonprofit organization that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, warning of a "jihadist takeover" of Europe leading to a "Great White Death."
Which is from an NBC News report that states in its lede:
John Bolton, President Donald Trump’s new national security adviser, chaired a nonprofit that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, some of which was amplified by a Russian troll factory, an NBC News review found
and continues:
From 2013 until last month, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a New York-based advocacy group that warns of a looming “jihadist takeover” of Europe leading to a “Great White Death.”
@ Chris troutman: removed the edit, stating on my talk page: "Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to John R. Bolton."
My edit did nothing of the kind. It accurately described what was reported by a reliable source. Consequently the edit should remain. soibangla ( talk) 18:16, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
It is not against NPOV to cite the criticism of Gatestone, as long as it is labeled criticism rather than fact. I have edited to that effect. NPguy ( talk) 02:24, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
John Bolton, President Donald Trump’s new national security adviser, chaired a nonprofit that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, some of which was amplified by a Russian troll factory, an NBC News review found.
From 2013 until last month, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a New York-based advocacy group that warns of a looming “jihadist takeover” of Europe leading to a “Great White Death.”
Although Bolton served in the United States Military during the Vietnam War era, no reliable sources found as of yet state that he served overseas during the war. Accordingly, Category:American military personnel of the Vietnam War was removed from the article. Semper Fi! FieldMarine ( talk) 14:54, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I want to note that the first Vietnam War lottery happened in the Spring of 1970, not 1969. I was there. Syrup1970 ( talk) 01:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
I want to note that the first Vietnam War lottery happened in the Spring of 1970, not 1969. I was there. Syrup1970 ( talk) 01:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
The other salient point regarding getting into a reserve component in Maryland in order to avoid being drafted is that you had to know something to do that because the line of boys wantiing to do that was so long Most of us who tried this in Maryland couldn't get into the Reserves. I was drafted out of law school, where I was a 4.0 student, so the desire for draftees was very strong.
"Bolton has been widely characterized as a war hawk" is better than "Bolton has been called a " war hawk". The latter sounds like it's some insult by a few critics when it is instead a fairly standard RS description of Bolton. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 13:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
To editor Snooganssnoogans: You prefer left-wing sources over right-wing sources? Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:30, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
There are three problems with the article:
According to President Trump, John Bolton was fired by Pres. G. W. Bush. Did he really resign because of the newly elected Democratic Senate ? It's true that G. W. Bush accepted his resignation, he could have tried to resist and bring Bolton to a vote in front of the new senators. So, in a certain view of politics this amounts to firing. 2A01:CB1D:4F5:6300:203E:EEBD:C45D:6316 ( talk) 17:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
An IP number keeps adding "neo-fascist" without RS support. BLP vio. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:18, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which language should we use regarding Bolton being a "war hawk"? Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Version A:
Bolton has been called a "war hawk" and is an advocate for regime change in Iran, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Cuba, Yemen and North Korea and repeatedly called for the termination of the Iran nuclear deal.
Version B:
Widely described as a "war hawk", Bolton was an architect of the Iraq War, has advocated for regime change in Iran, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Cuba, Yemen and North Korea, and repeatedly called for the termination of the Iran nuclear deal.
Please indicate which of these versions you support, along with your reasoning. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Cynistrategus ( talk) 04:34, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
This article shows how up-to-date an encyclopedia Wikipedia is. It was announced on the news today (September 10 2019) that John Bolton had been fired from being National Security Advisor, and already the article gives the dates on which Bolton served this role. Vorbee ( talk) 17:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. The fact that John R. Bolton is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is undisputed, even if it has any amount of WP:RECENTISM behind it, that is not a suitable justification to override policy, a pageviews analysis shows that John R. Bolton has consistently remained more of a primary topic (since July 2015) than the other subjects listed on the disambiguation page, which seems to point out to me that the WP:RECENTISM arguments as being fallible. Per the two principles listed in WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, even if the requirement of "long-term significance" cannot be answered with certainty, John R. Bolton clearly meets the first requirement of "usage". ( closed by non-admin page mover) qedk ( t 桜 c) 19:05, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log
This is
Template:Requested move/end |
– Just like the previous move at Michael Flynn, most sources omit the initial. And he's more notable than all the others combined. [36] Unreal7 ( talk) 19:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Other Iran/contra figures are leading players today. Here’s a partial list from the National Security Archive:... John Bolton – the controversial U.N. ambassador..., NPR 2005 [39] quoting speeches he's given going back to 1994, BBC News 2003 [40] discussing Project for the New American Century, a stock photo of him from 1996 [41]
John Bolton, President of the National Policy Forum... I had to go back to this 1990 CSPAN video to find an instance of him being called "John R. Bolton". – Leviv ich 04:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
John R Bolton was married to one Christina Bolton for 10 years. Why no mention of this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:14C5:8760:BD02:DB64:6FF9:CED5 ( talk) 07:59, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Under
Wikipedia:John_Bolton#Tenure, there appears to be a typo:
Trump claimed that his own views were "were far stronger" than Bolton's
Could an editor delete the repeated word were ? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
87.218.115.17 (
talk)
18:02, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
X1\ ( talk) 00:41, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Bolton encouraged Fiona Hill to report her concerns to the United States National Security Council's attorney ...
X1\ ( talk) 20:03, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
The Vietnam War section reads like someone is trying to make an editorial point. There are facts there that are not relevant to a biographical article on John Bolton, such as:
I would fix this myself but whenever I do that some owner of the article always reverts what I do, so guy who would revert everything because you are super important on this site, do what you will. 71.231.189.174 ( talk) 02:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
He has a book out and he makes certain claims in it. That should go in the article. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 05:23, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Mr. Bolton’s book hasn’t been officially released yet. Therefore, I would tend to believe that anything that has been circulating about said book is purely speculation and doesn’t meet the standards for reliable sources. Also, would you mind elaborating on what claims you think are relevant for inclusion into the article and if they have encyclopedic nature? His book is scheduled to release on June 23 so until then I would hold off on including the content in the article for those reasons. Thank you so much I appreciate your question. Grahamevan05178 ( talk) 02:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately the section in object must have been edited in a way that it is not neutral at all.
Following the section: "This rather extraordinary accusation against Congress - a Congress that was unable to get Mr. Bolton's cooperation in testimony - rings hollow when one of the few persons aware of the misconduct hid behind legal machinations of requiring a Congressional subpoena and then vowing to fight it. Bolton had ample opportunity to speak up throughout the months long impeachment of President Trump over the Ukraine scandal. Throughout the process, Bolton remained entirely free to speak out publicly. But he decided to remain quiet — until he sought to boost sales of his book. As many have noted, John Bolton betrayed his country, and he will go down in the history books as a footnote to the misconduct of a President and be remembered for his self-interested betrayal of the United States".
Liuc2000 ( talk) 07:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I would have an admin look at this because I agree, this section is definitely not written from a neutral point of view. This edit should be reverted. Grahamevan05178 ( talk) 00:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: in July 2022 Bolton admitted in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper that he has helped to organize coups d'état ("not here, you know, other places"). 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
He's running for President 71.9.141.71 ( talk) 21:15, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Iskandar323: You have repeatedly deleted text and citations that are expressions of opinion. One is a New York Times editorial, which expresses the opinion of the NYTimes editorial board and is not "sketchy." Others are opinion pieces by Bolton supporting statements of Bolton's views. Those all seem legitimate. Others may be excessive, but let's discuss first. That's what this page is for. NPguy ( talk) 21:48, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Bolton article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Archive 1 (2005) |
this edit of mine states:
From 2013 until March 2018, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a nonprofit organization that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, warning of a "jihadist takeover" of Europe leading to a "Great White Death."
Which is from an NBC News report that states in its lede:
John Bolton, President Donald Trump’s new national security adviser, chaired a nonprofit that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, some of which was amplified by a Russian troll factory, an NBC News review found
and continues:
From 2013 until last month, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a New York-based advocacy group that warns of a looming “jihadist takeover” of Europe leading to a “Great White Death.”
@ Chris troutman: removed the edit, stating on my talk page: "Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to John R. Bolton."
My edit did nothing of the kind. It accurately described what was reported by a reliable source. Consequently the edit should remain. soibangla ( talk) 18:16, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
It is not against NPOV to cite the criticism of Gatestone, as long as it is labeled criticism rather than fact. I have edited to that effect. NPguy ( talk) 02:24, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
John Bolton, President Donald Trump’s new national security adviser, chaired a nonprofit that has promoted misleading and false anti-Muslim news, some of which was amplified by a Russian troll factory, an NBC News review found.
From 2013 until last month, Bolton was chairman of the Gatestone Institute, a New York-based advocacy group that warns of a looming “jihadist takeover” of Europe leading to a “Great White Death.”
Although Bolton served in the United States Military during the Vietnam War era, no reliable sources found as of yet state that he served overseas during the war. Accordingly, Category:American military personnel of the Vietnam War was removed from the article. Semper Fi! FieldMarine ( talk) 14:54, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I want to note that the first Vietnam War lottery happened in the Spring of 1970, not 1969. I was there. Syrup1970 ( talk) 01:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
I want to note that the first Vietnam War lottery happened in the Spring of 1970, not 1969. I was there. Syrup1970 ( talk) 01:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
The other salient point regarding getting into a reserve component in Maryland in order to avoid being drafted is that you had to know something to do that because the line of boys wantiing to do that was so long Most of us who tried this in Maryland couldn't get into the Reserves. I was drafted out of law school, where I was a 4.0 student, so the desire for draftees was very strong.
"Bolton has been widely characterized as a war hawk" is better than "Bolton has been called a " war hawk". The latter sounds like it's some insult by a few critics when it is instead a fairly standard RS description of Bolton. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 13:12, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
To editor Snooganssnoogans: You prefer left-wing sources over right-wing sources? Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:30, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
There are three problems with the article:
According to President Trump, John Bolton was fired by Pres. G. W. Bush. Did he really resign because of the newly elected Democratic Senate ? It's true that G. W. Bush accepted his resignation, he could have tried to resist and bring Bolton to a vote in front of the new senators. So, in a certain view of politics this amounts to firing. 2A01:CB1D:4F5:6300:203E:EEBD:C45D:6316 ( talk) 17:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
An IP number keeps adding "neo-fascist" without RS support. BLP vio. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:18, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which language should we use regarding Bolton being a "war hawk"? Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Version A:
Bolton has been called a "war hawk" and is an advocate for regime change in Iran, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Cuba, Yemen and North Korea and repeatedly called for the termination of the Iran nuclear deal.
Version B:
Widely described as a "war hawk", Bolton was an architect of the Iraq War, has advocated for regime change in Iran, Syria, Libya, Venezuela, Cuba, Yemen and North Korea, and repeatedly called for the termination of the Iran nuclear deal.
Please indicate which of these versions you support, along with your reasoning. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 12:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Cynistrategus ( talk) 04:34, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
This article shows how up-to-date an encyclopedia Wikipedia is. It was announced on the news today (September 10 2019) that John Bolton had been fired from being National Security Advisor, and already the article gives the dates on which Bolton served this role. Vorbee ( talk) 17:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. The fact that John R. Bolton is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is undisputed, even if it has any amount of WP:RECENTISM behind it, that is not a suitable justification to override policy, a pageviews analysis shows that John R. Bolton has consistently remained more of a primary topic (since July 2015) than the other subjects listed on the disambiguation page, which seems to point out to me that the WP:RECENTISM arguments as being fallible. Per the two principles listed in WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, even if the requirement of "long-term significance" cannot be answered with certainty, John R. Bolton clearly meets the first requirement of "usage". ( closed by non-admin page mover) qedk ( t 桜 c) 19:05, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be
renamed and moved.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log
This is
Template:Requested move/end |
– Just like the previous move at Michael Flynn, most sources omit the initial. And he's more notable than all the others combined. [36] Unreal7 ( talk) 19:13, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Other Iran/contra figures are leading players today. Here’s a partial list from the National Security Archive:... John Bolton – the controversial U.N. ambassador..., NPR 2005 [39] quoting speeches he's given going back to 1994, BBC News 2003 [40] discussing Project for the New American Century, a stock photo of him from 1996 [41]
John Bolton, President of the National Policy Forum... I had to go back to this 1990 CSPAN video to find an instance of him being called "John R. Bolton". – Leviv ich 04:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
John R Bolton was married to one Christina Bolton for 10 years. Why no mention of this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:14C5:8760:BD02:DB64:6FF9:CED5 ( talk) 07:59, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Under
Wikipedia:John_Bolton#Tenure, there appears to be a typo:
Trump claimed that his own views were "were far stronger" than Bolton's
Could an editor delete the repeated word were ? — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
87.218.115.17 (
talk)
18:02, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
X1\ ( talk) 00:41, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Bolton encouraged Fiona Hill to report her concerns to the United States National Security Council's attorney ...
X1\ ( talk) 20:03, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
The Vietnam War section reads like someone is trying to make an editorial point. There are facts there that are not relevant to a biographical article on John Bolton, such as:
I would fix this myself but whenever I do that some owner of the article always reverts what I do, so guy who would revert everything because you are super important on this site, do what you will. 71.231.189.174 ( talk) 02:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:24, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
He has a book out and he makes certain claims in it. That should go in the article. Snooganssnoogans ( talk) 05:23, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Mr. Bolton’s book hasn’t been officially released yet. Therefore, I would tend to believe that anything that has been circulating about said book is purely speculation and doesn’t meet the standards for reliable sources. Also, would you mind elaborating on what claims you think are relevant for inclusion into the article and if they have encyclopedic nature? His book is scheduled to release on June 23 so until then I would hold off on including the content in the article for those reasons. Thank you so much I appreciate your question. Grahamevan05178 ( talk) 02:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately the section in object must have been edited in a way that it is not neutral at all.
Following the section: "This rather extraordinary accusation against Congress - a Congress that was unable to get Mr. Bolton's cooperation in testimony - rings hollow when one of the few persons aware of the misconduct hid behind legal machinations of requiring a Congressional subpoena and then vowing to fight it. Bolton had ample opportunity to speak up throughout the months long impeachment of President Trump over the Ukraine scandal. Throughout the process, Bolton remained entirely free to speak out publicly. But he decided to remain quiet — until he sought to boost sales of his book. As many have noted, John Bolton betrayed his country, and he will go down in the history books as a footnote to the misconduct of a President and be remembered for his self-interested betrayal of the United States".
Liuc2000 ( talk) 07:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I would have an admin look at this because I agree, this section is definitely not written from a neutral point of view. This edit should be reverted. Grahamevan05178 ( talk) 00:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
To add to this article: in July 2022 Bolton admitted in an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper that he has helped to organize coups d'état ("not here, you know, other places"). 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
He's running for President 71.9.141.71 ( talk) 21:15, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Iskandar323: You have repeatedly deleted text and citations that are expressions of opinion. One is a New York Times editorial, which expresses the opinion of the NYTimes editorial board and is not "sketchy." Others are opinion pieces by Bolton supporting statements of Bolton's views. Those all seem legitimate. Others may be excessive, but let's discuss first. That's what this page is for. NPguy ( talk) 21:48, 31 May 2023 (UTC)