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There's no indication of why any of the faculty is notable. Unless someone anotates the list, or creates articles about the teachers, I'm going to delete it. - Will Beback 17:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Im new to this whole thing, and I hope this works, but someone who knows how should link the citations from the "scandals" section so the accuracy of the quote may be quickly seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.20.195 ( talk • contribs) 07:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Without trying to be argumentative, I am putting some names back on the notable graduate list. Just because YOU don't think being a notable artist, composer, or athlete (or criminal) is worthy of your own personal evaluation, but being a rock star is, trashing the list of names could be considered petty. I left out the ones without cites or members of the hall of fame.
If a person is considered "notable" enough to have made major publications, won awards or had the quality for "notable" databases and even being considered "notable" by Wikipedia, please don't just keep dumping names off the list of graduates just because YOU don't like their career choice and/or success. If Sirhan Sirhan is notable because of his infamy, then so is Rodney King, whose case let to one of the most famous riots in history.
A discussion of whether or not simply making an NFL team without any distinguishing career moments is probably worthy, so that point is noted. Bsteph1 ( talk) 03:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
If someone made the school's Hall of Fame they are worthy of inclusion.
The Rodney King Reference has no sources. Rodney King is a John Muir alumni. And again, just making it to the NFL isn't worthy enough. What if I added everyone who went onto an Ivy League school, like Yale? It doesn't matter what these people have been accepted into, they have to have a record to justify being on there. An Olympic medalist, thats doing something, just making UCLA's track team isn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.191.219 ( talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Matthew "Mack" Robinson, Class of 1935, was the sliver medalist in the 1936 Olympics (200 meters). He was inducted into the Muir Hall of Fame the very first year, along with brother Jackie. < http://johnmuiralumni.org/hof_1988.htm> I'm not too comfortable editing and don't know how to add footnotes, so I hope someone will enter this info. Thanks. Lmonteros ( talk) 02:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
For notable alumni graduating 1955 or later, an early February 2008 version seems to have the longest list (28):
A recent version this week seems to have the shortest (6):
I copied the two here to aid comparison by the editors involved in the dispute and any third opinion volunteer. — Athaenara ✉ 05:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
The extensive list is far too broad. The majority of the people listed aren't even cited and have red or no links. Furthermore, some with links do not support an association with John Muir either. The discussion regarding Rodney King is a fine example of this. While Rodney King is clearly notable, although notability shouldn't be confused with successful, the link provided doesn't support an association with John Muir. It's possible that he attended the school, but the evidence doesn't support the claim. As far as these cases are concerned, there is not argument to be made. Without a creditable source linking an individual to this school, the person cannot be considered to be an alumni.
I've noticed that several of the notable alumni are athletes and assuming that these entries are factual, given the thousands of people who are a part of these sports leagues over the course of five decades, I don't think that merely being an athlete is notable in an of itself. Notability should be relative to the accomplishment of one's peers. If the notable alumni was an athlete and had an outstanding record that is extraordinary, then their entry would be acceptable. The wikipedia guidelines for notability support this. Several wikipedia articles concern porn stars and these guidelines seem to be appropriate to this discussion:
* Has won or been a serious nominee for a well-known award, such as those listed in Category:Adult movie awards or Category:Film awards or from a major pornographic magazine, such as Penthouse, Playboy, or Playgirl, as well as their counterparts in other pornography genres.
- Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre, such as beginning a trend in pornography, or starring in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature.
- Has been featured multiple times in mainstream media.
There are several active porn stars and yet only a select few are above their peers and should be considered notable. The same can be said for athletes or any other field. The short list seems the most appropriate. Those in the short list are clearly at the top of their field, whether it be writing or athletics or a major assassination. I would also argue that the long list of alumni includes several inductees into the schools hall of fame which while creditable, it is not enough to claim notability by having one's name mentioned once on a rather extensive list.
A major issue plaguing wikpedia is information overload. More information isn't necessarily a good thing. Many articles include every single detail of an event and it severally degrades the quality of an article to surmise a particular topic. [7]
How about this suggested compromise?
1. This list meets the Wiki notablity for people, here, keeps the John Muir High School Hall of Fame (They determined these people are hall of famers - but we don't agree?)
2. It puts Rodney King back in, because the cite clearly discusses his time at John Muir High School on page 41. However, he left school just prior to graduation, so you may very well feel his is not a valid entry.
3. Puts back a couple of notable professionals that are not hall of famers but are famous within their industries. One example: John Beal has numerous awards, hit television shows and is the most famous composer of movie trailer music in Hollywood's major motion picture industry. My cites don't all seem to be showing, but you can see them in the code.
BTW: Who finalizes this? Bsteph1 ( talk) 00:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The aforementioned compromise seems to be acceptable, although Rodney King should not be included if he did not graduate as he would not be an alumni. Moreover, Rodney King himself did not create any notable change or event; he was not the person who overhauled the LAPD and he certainly didn't choose to be the center of controversy. It would be as if we remembered MLK for being assassinated and not his work. I see no reason why he would be "notable" in that respect, let alone an alumni. Furthermore, your statement succeeding Rodney King isn't objective.
For future reference, any references to the John Muir Hall of fame are sufficed by a link, and shouldn't be mentioned as a part of their "notability". Additionally, any John Muir Hall of Fame people should have some other documentation, other than an honorific mention by a high school alumni association. At the very least, any red linked people, or those with wikipedia stubs should not be included, unless there is some extraordinary accomplishment. Otherwise, there is a case to add every single person that is in the John Muir Hall of Fame.
As for finalization, wikipedia is never finalized, so it would seem that it's a moot point. I'll make the changes now. The difference from what you've proposed will be the removal of Rodney King, as he was not an alumni, and the removal of Renee Tajima-Peña, unless someone can produce a citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki Mateo ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
In some definitions, an alumnus is a graduate of a school. In other definitions, a graduate or former student of a school.
??? Wanderer57 ( talk) 11:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Wanderer57 ( talk) 22:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
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There's no indication of why any of the faculty is notable. Unless someone anotates the list, or creates articles about the teachers, I'm going to delete it. - Will Beback 17:47, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Im new to this whole thing, and I hope this works, but someone who knows how should link the citations from the "scandals" section so the accuracy of the quote may be quickly seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.20.195 ( talk • contribs) 07:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Without trying to be argumentative, I am putting some names back on the notable graduate list. Just because YOU don't think being a notable artist, composer, or athlete (or criminal) is worthy of your own personal evaluation, but being a rock star is, trashing the list of names could be considered petty. I left out the ones without cites or members of the hall of fame.
If a person is considered "notable" enough to have made major publications, won awards or had the quality for "notable" databases and even being considered "notable" by Wikipedia, please don't just keep dumping names off the list of graduates just because YOU don't like their career choice and/or success. If Sirhan Sirhan is notable because of his infamy, then so is Rodney King, whose case let to one of the most famous riots in history.
A discussion of whether or not simply making an NFL team without any distinguishing career moments is probably worthy, so that point is noted. Bsteph1 ( talk) 03:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
If someone made the school's Hall of Fame they are worthy of inclusion.
The Rodney King Reference has no sources. Rodney King is a John Muir alumni. And again, just making it to the NFL isn't worthy enough. What if I added everyone who went onto an Ivy League school, like Yale? It doesn't matter what these people have been accepted into, they have to have a record to justify being on there. An Olympic medalist, thats doing something, just making UCLA's track team isn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.187.191.219 ( talk • contribs) 03:50, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Matthew "Mack" Robinson, Class of 1935, was the sliver medalist in the 1936 Olympics (200 meters). He was inducted into the Muir Hall of Fame the very first year, along with brother Jackie. < http://johnmuiralumni.org/hof_1988.htm> I'm not too comfortable editing and don't know how to add footnotes, so I hope someone will enter this info. Thanks. Lmonteros ( talk) 02:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
For notable alumni graduating 1955 or later, an early February 2008 version seems to have the longest list (28):
A recent version this week seems to have the shortest (6):
I copied the two here to aid comparison by the editors involved in the dispute and any third opinion volunteer. — Athaenara ✉ 05:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
The extensive list is far too broad. The majority of the people listed aren't even cited and have red or no links. Furthermore, some with links do not support an association with John Muir either. The discussion regarding Rodney King is a fine example of this. While Rodney King is clearly notable, although notability shouldn't be confused with successful, the link provided doesn't support an association with John Muir. It's possible that he attended the school, but the evidence doesn't support the claim. As far as these cases are concerned, there is not argument to be made. Without a creditable source linking an individual to this school, the person cannot be considered to be an alumni.
I've noticed that several of the notable alumni are athletes and assuming that these entries are factual, given the thousands of people who are a part of these sports leagues over the course of five decades, I don't think that merely being an athlete is notable in an of itself. Notability should be relative to the accomplishment of one's peers. If the notable alumni was an athlete and had an outstanding record that is extraordinary, then their entry would be acceptable. The wikipedia guidelines for notability support this. Several wikipedia articles concern porn stars and these guidelines seem to be appropriate to this discussion:
* Has won or been a serious nominee for a well-known award, such as those listed in Category:Adult movie awards or Category:Film awards or from a major pornographic magazine, such as Penthouse, Playboy, or Playgirl, as well as their counterparts in other pornography genres.
- Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre, such as beginning a trend in pornography, or starring in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature.
- Has been featured multiple times in mainstream media.
There are several active porn stars and yet only a select few are above their peers and should be considered notable. The same can be said for athletes or any other field. The short list seems the most appropriate. Those in the short list are clearly at the top of their field, whether it be writing or athletics or a major assassination. I would also argue that the long list of alumni includes several inductees into the schools hall of fame which while creditable, it is not enough to claim notability by having one's name mentioned once on a rather extensive list.
A major issue plaguing wikpedia is information overload. More information isn't necessarily a good thing. Many articles include every single detail of an event and it severally degrades the quality of an article to surmise a particular topic. [7]
How about this suggested compromise?
1. This list meets the Wiki notablity for people, here, keeps the John Muir High School Hall of Fame (They determined these people are hall of famers - but we don't agree?)
2. It puts Rodney King back in, because the cite clearly discusses his time at John Muir High School on page 41. However, he left school just prior to graduation, so you may very well feel his is not a valid entry.
3. Puts back a couple of notable professionals that are not hall of famers but are famous within their industries. One example: John Beal has numerous awards, hit television shows and is the most famous composer of movie trailer music in Hollywood's major motion picture industry. My cites don't all seem to be showing, but you can see them in the code.
BTW: Who finalizes this? Bsteph1 ( talk) 00:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
The aforementioned compromise seems to be acceptable, although Rodney King should not be included if he did not graduate as he would not be an alumni. Moreover, Rodney King himself did not create any notable change or event; he was not the person who overhauled the LAPD and he certainly didn't choose to be the center of controversy. It would be as if we remembered MLK for being assassinated and not his work. I see no reason why he would be "notable" in that respect, let alone an alumni. Furthermore, your statement succeeding Rodney King isn't objective.
For future reference, any references to the John Muir Hall of fame are sufficed by a link, and shouldn't be mentioned as a part of their "notability". Additionally, any John Muir Hall of Fame people should have some other documentation, other than an honorific mention by a high school alumni association. At the very least, any red linked people, or those with wikipedia stubs should not be included, unless there is some extraordinary accomplishment. Otherwise, there is a case to add every single person that is in the John Muir Hall of Fame.
As for finalization, wikipedia is never finalized, so it would seem that it's a moot point. I'll make the changes now. The difference from what you've proposed will be the removal of Rodney King, as he was not an alumni, and the removal of Renee Tajima-Peña, unless someone can produce a citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki Mateo ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
In some definitions, an alumnus is a graduate of a school. In other definitions, a graduate or former student of a school.
??? Wanderer57 ( talk) 11:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Wanderer57 ( talk) 22:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:41, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:50, 30 November 2016 (UTC)