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" Skáldatal gives Einarr Skúlason and Halldórr skvaldri as two of John's court skalds."
Skáldatal also gives Halldórr as one of Magnus Barefoot's skalds. Since Magnus died in 1103 and Jón was born in 1201, Halldórr must have lived to a very old age... Sigo 17:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Although it was disputed which name was the king's WP:COMMONNAME, I believe the sources that were provided by the supporting side have made a convincing case that "Johan Sverkersson" is the prevailing name among current-day RS. Accordingly, the strength of argument appears to favor the move of the king's article. For the son of Sverker I, I see a consensus here as well, as the arguments in favor of moving his article are based in policy and appear to be uncontested. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 14:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
– Per WP:COMMONNAME. Both share the same name, but the king is the primary topic.
— Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 07:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Even with your date restrictions, "John I of Sweden" still heavily outweighs "Johan Sverderkersson".The number Google Books shows is not reliable, so which metric are you using? Studying the search results for crusades "John I of Sweden", one notices that the first three results mention "John I", but already the fourth (Urban 1980) and the fifth (Christiansen 1997) do not. For "Johan Sverkersson", it is only the twentieth source that fails to contain the exact phrase (Hermanson 2019 still does).
The article title must stand alone and without context.Only for readers who are familiar with the topic. Anthony Albanese might mean nothing to a reader unfamiliar with Australian politics, yet the article title is perfectly fine for WP.
obscure nativized Swedish spellings: The current evidence indicates that "Johan Sverkersson" is more common spelling than "John I of Sweden" in modern English literature. This is most likely not the case with "Jean le Posthume" vs "John I of France" or with those other monarchs, so the situation is not comparable. Which general works are you referring to?
I want to see how he is referred out of context.Here are some indices from books that refer him as Johan Sverkersson next to some "Johns": [1] [2] [3] [4] See especially the first one of these. There you will find John I of Aragon and those others next to Johan Sverkersson, out of Scandinavian context.
general Wikipedia reader.The reader most likely comes across him with the most common name, whatever that is. For other spellings there are redirects, and alternative names should be bolded.
In the old days, articles were never moved/namechanged after a discussion as sorely lacking in clear consensus as the above. Oh, well, that was in the good old days when English Wikipedia still used English exonyms to make reading much easier for English-speaking people.
Now, whose gonna teach non-Swedes to pronounce Johan, which I know from 50 years of experience that they hardly ever can do. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
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" Skáldatal gives Einarr Skúlason and Halldórr skvaldri as two of John's court skalds."
Skáldatal also gives Halldórr as one of Magnus Barefoot's skalds. Since Magnus died in 1103 and Jón was born in 1201, Halldórr must have lived to a very old age... Sigo 17:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Although it was disputed which name was the king's WP:COMMONNAME, I believe the sources that were provided by the supporting side have made a convincing case that "Johan Sverkersson" is the prevailing name among current-day RS. Accordingly, the strength of argument appears to favor the move of the king's article. For the son of Sverker I, I see a consensus here as well, as the arguments in favor of moving his article are based in policy and appear to be uncontested. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 14:41, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
– Per WP:COMMONNAME. Both share the same name, but the king is the primary topic.
— Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 07:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Even with your date restrictions, "John I of Sweden" still heavily outweighs "Johan Sverderkersson".The number Google Books shows is not reliable, so which metric are you using? Studying the search results for crusades "John I of Sweden", one notices that the first three results mention "John I", but already the fourth (Urban 1980) and the fifth (Christiansen 1997) do not. For "Johan Sverkersson", it is only the twentieth source that fails to contain the exact phrase (Hermanson 2019 still does).
The article title must stand alone and without context.Only for readers who are familiar with the topic. Anthony Albanese might mean nothing to a reader unfamiliar with Australian politics, yet the article title is perfectly fine for WP.
obscure nativized Swedish spellings: The current evidence indicates that "Johan Sverkersson" is more common spelling than "John I of Sweden" in modern English literature. This is most likely not the case with "Jean le Posthume" vs "John I of France" or with those other monarchs, so the situation is not comparable. Which general works are you referring to?
I want to see how he is referred out of context.Here are some indices from books that refer him as Johan Sverkersson next to some "Johns": [1] [2] [3] [4] See especially the first one of these. There you will find John I of Aragon and those others next to Johan Sverkersson, out of Scandinavian context.
general Wikipedia reader.The reader most likely comes across him with the most common name, whatever that is. For other spellings there are redirects, and alternative names should be bolded.
In the old days, articles were never moved/namechanged after a discussion as sorely lacking in clear consensus as the above. Oh, well, that was in the good old days when English Wikipedia still used English exonyms to make reading much easier for English-speaking people.
Now, whose gonna teach non-Swedes to pronounce Johan, which I know from 50 years of experience that they hardly ever can do. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 10:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)