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I am wondering about this sentence: "Diefenbaker became prime minister when Eisenhower was president and the two fostered one of the strongest friendships between American presidents and Canadian prime ministers." I am not disputing it, but wonder on what it is based. What evidence is there that this friendship was "one of the strongest" of any American president and eCanadian prime minsiter" HistoryBA 14:44, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Can anyone provide evidence to support this statement: "Joe Clark became the first prime minister to eulogize another during the burial services"? 70.48.170.216 23:19, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I just finished watching an episode of Canada: A People's History, and if it's possible I would like someone to add a bit about how the Voice of Women played a big role in the whole Nuke decision. I would have, but I'm afraid of messing up the article. Also, the article can be constured as misleading, the part about "Dief's refusal to allow nukes into Canada", from what I understand, he was on the fence and the VoW was what changed his mind.
Other than, great article.
The wiki page on the Nickle Resolution states that Dief was made a Member of the Order of Merit and the Trudeau was a Companion of Honour, however on Dief's postnominals it says CH instead of OM. Which is correct ? Dowew 20:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Dief never made it to France. He never saw action in the trenches. As much as I loved him and his Vision for Canada, I cannot let this go misreported in the article. For validation, see "Rogue Tory" by Denis Smith, ISBN# 0-921912-92-7. Dief claimed an injury whilst in training in England, spitting blood, and was discharged back to Canada where he was further judged unfit for Military Service due to heart irregularities. I have corrected that article to reflect this reality. (Posted by TrulyTory, 3 December 2005)
Can 16 months in the Army truly be considered "brief"? Granted he never saw combat but it seems strange to say that, considering he did become an officer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by McDingus ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Any sustantiation for the claim that this was controversial? Diefenbaker was 83 and frail when Clark assumed the premiership, and I don't recall there being any serious discussion of his inclusion in cabinet. - Fishhead64, 05 Feb 2006
Edna Mae Brower was born in 1899, not 1901.
Between his election to the Wakaw Town Council in 1920 and his election to Parliament in 1940, Mr. Diefenbaker was a losing candidate in five elections. They were: the Federal Elections of 1925 and 1926, the Saskatchewan Provincial Elections of 1929 and 1938, and the Prince Albert Mayoral Race in 1933. He never ran for office in Alberta.
Mr. Diefenbaker first mounted a campaign for Leader of the Conservative Party in 1942, and lost to John Bracken in the Convention of that year. The Leadership Convention was not held in 1943.
Mr. Diefenbaker's courageous stand against apartheid took place at the 1961 Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, not the 1962 Conference. PeterNixon 00:12, 9 December 2006.
As a matter purely of style, I can't tell from reading the early list of accomplishments whether Dief founded or abolished the Economic Council of Canada. It sounds as if he should be credited with founding it, but the verb immediately before it is 'abolished', with reference to the Avro Arrow program. Maybe the note about the ECC could be moved to before the mention of the Avro Arrow? The decision about the ECC is not mentioned elsewhere on the page, e.g. in the description of Dief's time as PM. Johndgregory ( talk) 03:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Was Dief the first Canadian PM with military service? None of the previous PM's articles mention any time in uniform. -- SigPig | SEND - OVER 07:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:Diefenbaker Time Magazine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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This page is in the 'Orange Order' and 'Orangemen' categories, but doesn't say that Diefenbaker was an Orangeman. I know nothing about the guy, but the page should either mention he was in the Orange Order or be removed from those categories. -- Helenalex 20:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure that the listing of the | honorific-suffix = PC CH QC LLD ( hc, McM) LLD ( hc, StM) LLD ( hc, UBC) LLD ( hc, UNB) LLD ( hc, PU) LLD ( hc, UofT) LLD ( hc, UW) LLD ( hc, QU) LLD ( hc, Dal) LLD ( hc, MUN) LLD ( hc, WLU) LLD ( hc, UA) DCL ( hc, Sask) DCL ( hc, UWO) MA LLB BA FRSC FRSA in the infobox works well. I have moved these here to preserve the information. Comments? FWIW Bzuk ( talk) 15:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC).
The Avro Arrow paragraph would be strengthened with an examination of the causes leading to its cancellation. It should be noted that, had they been re-elected, the Liberal Party would have canceled the program. While criticisms were made by the Liberal opposition regarding the way in which the cancellation, they did not criticize the decision to do so. The program was eating up an increasing proportion of the defence budget. The cost of the planes had increased five-fold from that originally budgeted to the manufacturing costs when the program was terminated. There were no international buyers. Interestingly, the Avro Arrow had never been flight tested with both the Iroquois engine and its weapons system. PieterGordon ( talk) 20:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Weeks before his death, Diefenbaker was indignant that very near his home, in the Rockcliffe neighbourhood, the Iraqi ambassador had a middle-east style wall built around the property. Diefenbaker strutted around nearby one day during news coverage of the controversy. Diefenbaker said that when Parliament met in the fall of 1979, he would demand in the House that the wall be demolished. Whether anyone took up the cause after his death is not known to me. GBC ( talk) 00:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I was reading this article about the St Lawrence Seaway turning 50 this year, and saw the following -- "The seaway held its official opening ceremony on June 26, 1959. Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip, U.S. president Dwight D. Eisenhower and prime minister John Diefenbaker sailed through the seaway and St. Lambert Lock on the royal yacht Britannia........." Very interesting report, so in an effort to learn more I followed my nose to our St Lawrence Seaway article and discovered it says "Queen Elizabeth II and President Dwight D. Eisenhower formally opened the Seaway........". No mention of Diefenbacker, which I thought was curious, to say the least. Comments? Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 21:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi, it is my intention to thoroughly work over the article with a view towards getting it to FAC in early 2010. Collaborators welcome.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 16:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Most prime ministers have it as mf=yes for the birth/death date parameters. Perhaps we should change it to that? Connormah ( talk) 16:56, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
A references section would be useful, with Diefenbaker books, movies, and records listed. 70.29.78.233 ( talk) 19:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC) 70.29.78.233 ( talk) 19:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it might be wise to add a pronunciation in the lead? Connormah ( talk) 23:27, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The lead refers to Dief as an "attorney". Why is this term, not used by lawyers in Canada, used here? Unless there is some reason, it should be changed to "lawyer" which I will do unless there is objection. The article cites Peter C Newman as saying Dief did 62 jury trials in one year. Surely not. I doubt that there were that many jury trials in the whole province in a year. Does someone have access to Newman's book to see whether this claim is actually supported by Newman's book? -- KenWalker | Talk 05:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
In the introduction, it states "...his family trekked west to the portion of the Northwest Territories...". Did his family actually trek out to the west, or did they travel there as most others did? (If they did trek there, do we have a source for it?)
Other potential tweaks in the intro:
I'll add other suggestions as I read each section. Mind matrix 22:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
More tweaks:
More to come. Mind matrix 23:12, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I see that NormanEinstein has added a link to the Diefenbunker. Other info that may be of relevance:
Other than that, this article seems complete and comprehensive. I've done a complete review, and conditional on the above (with your discretion for the first point listed) I'll add my support to the FAC. Mind matrix 03:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Good point on removing my external link to the article on Dief in the Dictionary -- sorry I didn't look closer before I did it. What do you think of including it in the bibliography? I suggest this because I think it's a very valuable source, being written by his primary biographer AND being super-easily accessibly by virtue of the fact that it's online. As well, because it's buried in the footnotes it might slip by many readers. -- The Fwanksta ( talk) 04:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Totally fair. This is an excellent article, which is a nice change of pace for Canadian history on Wiki -- something I'm hoping to help change. Hope to perhaps work with you in the future. Cheers. -- The Fwanksta ( talk) 18:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
"By the end of 1963, the first of the Bomarc warheads entered Canada, where they remained until the last were finally phased out during John Turner's brief government in 1984."
This sentence contradicts CIM-10 Bomarc (sections "Canada and the Bomarc" and "Operation") which states that the warheads were phased out twelve years earlier. -- Voyager ( talk) 09:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Didn't accept a change here [3] because [4] lists his father's name as William, not danny. Hobit ( talk) 16:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The Government of Canada is a primary source for the history of Prime Ministers. It is the source used for the List of Prime Ministers of Canada. Why would we say the Government of Canada is wrong? 117Avenue ( talk) 22:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Someone added information alleging Dief may have had an illegitimate child in the late 60s, and there will be DNA testing with the cooperation of the Diefenbaker Centre. I suggest we ignore it unless and until it's shown this guy is Dief's kid. If so, add something tasteful and sourced. But unless and until that happens, do nothing.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 00:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
8 January 2013 Another follow-up article, for consideration. At the very least, Children could be changed to "none confirmed" to reflect this possibility-- rather than burying the notion of an illegitimate child deeply in this talk page. From the following article: "Dryden said he still planned to change his name to Diefenbaker in light of an earlier DNA test he said shows he’s related to the ex-PM’s clan." With the surprising visual similarity, and enough result to suggest he's at least connected to the Diefenbaker family, it's worth opening up the consideration.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1312157--alleged-son-of-john-diefenbaker-wants-mother-to-confirm-paternit — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.78.199.60 ( talk) 02:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
A further DNA development in the news yesterday as reported here by CBC. If I have it straight, Dryden's DNA has now been shown to match that of three brothers named Goertzen in Saskatchewan, whose father (now deceased) was born in 1939 to Diefenbaker's housekeeper. Since Dryden and the Goertzens' father were born about 30 years and 2 provinces apart, it seems doubtful there would be anyone else in common in the backgrounds of both mothers. Dirac66 ( talk) 17:31, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
To bring this issue back again, it is more likely than not that both the lately deceased George John Dryden and John Eric LaMarche aka Edward Thorne were both sons of John Diefenbaker and should be mentioned as a paragraph in their likely father's article. Evidence: 1) 99.99% probability that Thorne's sons and Dryden were related in a manner consistent with an uncle-nephew relationship. 2) The LaMarche/Thorne/Geortzen family and Dryden appear to have had no other commonality than the proximity of Mrs. Dryden and Ms. Lamarche to Mr. Diefenbaker. 3) Physical likeness of Dryden to Diefenbaker. 4) The DNA evidence from the discarded earwax of an uncooperative Diefenbaker relative is consistent with a distant relationship. It may not be provable on a "beyond reasonable doubt" basis, and the cumulative weight of the evidence is stronger than any single piece of it, but the "balance of probabilities" seems to be met. I can't think of an alternative hypothesis that is as persuasive (is Diefenbaker's brother as likely as Diefenbaker? Could this all be fabricated, and if so, to what benefit? All seem less likely than what Dryden and the Goertzens allege). RWIR 2 May 2016
If sensitivity is the barrier: We talk of the sensitivity of the matter for Diefenbaker's legacy, but we shouldn't forget the apparent descendants either. Perhaps some parallel to the Jefferson–Hemings_controversy and the time it took for their allegations to gain acceptance. RWIR 2 May 2016
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As a young man John served his community as a member of the Eclectic Club (4 clubs existed in Saskatchewan), which in 1926 merged with the Kinsmen Organization (Kinsmen and Kinette Clubs of Canada) of which he took an active role.
reference... http://reddeerkinsmen.com/about/11-history
70.73.120.184 ( talk) 02:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
At his on-air retirement from CBC News, Knowlton Nash recounted an anecdote from when he was a foreign correspondent and had been sent to Cuba on assignment. The hotel where he was staying had a large portrait of Castro, another of Lenin -- and a third, of Diefenbaker. When Nash asked about this, he was told that they had heard Dief was honored for his anti-American stance (presumably on the missile question, given the implied time of this incident, although Nash did not say in the interview). 121a0012 ( talk) 18:56, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
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The articles about most of the Canadian prime ministers who have followed Diefenbaker have sections about the honorary degrees they have received. See Lester B. Pearson#Honorary degrees, Pierre Trudeau#Honorary degrees, Joe Clark#Honorary degrees, John Turner#Honorary degrees, Brian Mulroney#Honorary degrees, Kim Campbell#Honorary degrees, Jean Chrétien#Honorary degrees, Paul Martin#Honorary degrees, and Stephen Harper#Honorary degrees. In light of this pattern, it would seem to be appropriate for Diefenbaker as well. However, an editor removed a section for that on the grounds that it was not encyclopedic. Does anyone else have an opinion about that? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:07, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
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I suppose that the roots of his grandparents' ancestors (probably called "Diefenbacher") lie in the village of Diefenbach which is situated just a few kilometres south of Adersbach and Sinsheim. -- Kolya ( talk) 11:43, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Someone who knows how really ought to add his electoral record. He ran for many offices, and as a former PM, such information would be critical to making this a complete entry. BlewsClews ( talk) 01:50, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Mentioning Diefenbaker as the only prime minister from the PC party (a successor-in-name only, to the original Conservative party) between 1935 and 1979, will suffice. GoodDay ( talk) 01:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
User:GoodDay what sounds better/more gramatically correct? "He led his party to three election victories, though only once with a majority of seats in the House of Commons." or "He led his party to three election victories, although only once with a majority of seats in the House of Commons." Ak-eater06 ( talk) 05:00, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which do you think should be in the first paragraph of the lead? Ak-eater06 ( talk) 16:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Comment It's very unusual for an RFC to propose a choice of "A or B", both chosen by Ak-eater. Isn't this something of a false choice? Neither represents the version that's been a FA for eleven years, or my personal preference, just two chosen by Ak-eater.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 19:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Comment I don't know why the tag was removed from this RFC, but what's in the article intro is simply a dang mess. The 1930 to 1979 bit, gives the impression that the Liberals were in power for 49 consecutive years. Completely wiping out Richard B. Bennett. GoodDay ( talk) 02:14, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
I've restored the RFC tag, as it was removed without explanation & the RFC was barely a week old. GoodDay ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Folks, I reopened this RFC, on the advice of User:GoodDay. I was new to this RFC stuff and wrongly instantly closed it as I assumed that the "C" side won. However, I did this prematurely as I didn't follow the rules of the RFC. Five responses was not enough and I'll leave this open for one or two more weeks. My apologies for the confusion I created.
The RFC for this is reopened. I encourage any user who hasn't inserted their opinion to please participate in the survey. Happy holidays. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 19:42, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
rfc}}
tag (exclusive) to the next valid timestamp (inclusive). Your edit that I linked above added 616 bytes to the RfC statement, and the
next edit added a further 84: these two taken together tipped it over the edge.
My edit yesterday shortened the statement from 2,511 bytes to 203, and so it is now well within the capabilities of Legobot, as evidenced by
this edit. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
09:14, 28 December 2021 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the first sentence of the first lead paragraph show full dates, or just the years?
My argument: I believe that Option B is good as every single PM of Canada article (including John A. Macdonald) has years rather than exact, precise dates. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 20:26, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm a tad confused here. Why are some editors putting their 'vote' in the discussion sub-section, rather then the 'survey' sub-section. Also, why was the preceding RFC tag removed? GoodDay ( talk) 02:03, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
I've had enough of this. The previous RFC was prematurely closed, I re-tagged it & it was prematurely closed again. That did enough to 'tick' me off. GoodDay ( talk) 01:28, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Wehwalt it seems like you have rather controlled this article. Nearly all edits I make on this article are instantly reverted. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia. I understand you made major contributions to this article but you do not own it. You shouldn't have a problem with an RFC either and you having a problem with it makes me a bit suspicious. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 02:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
rfc}}
template." That is what happened. These are just the normal Wikipedia processes.--
Wehwalt (
talk)
02:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)Ak-eater06, you're allowed to resume (via re-adding the RFC tag) the preceding RFC. Keep it open for a month (until the RFC tag expires) & then get an outsider to decide the result. GoodDay ( talk) 19:22, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Okay User:Wehwalt, shall we close the RFC? Ak-eater06 ( talk) 23:25, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
I found out about this rule Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus" and would like some people's thoughts on it, as a request for consensus has been drawn out multiple times on this article over the past few months.
I am not trying to create any argument or conflict and I don't even agree with this rule. However, maybe we should discuss/clarify this for future edits to the lead. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 02:48, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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I am wondering about this sentence: "Diefenbaker became prime minister when Eisenhower was president and the two fostered one of the strongest friendships between American presidents and Canadian prime ministers." I am not disputing it, but wonder on what it is based. What evidence is there that this friendship was "one of the strongest" of any American president and eCanadian prime minsiter" HistoryBA 14:44, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Can anyone provide evidence to support this statement: "Joe Clark became the first prime minister to eulogize another during the burial services"? 70.48.170.216 23:19, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I just finished watching an episode of Canada: A People's History, and if it's possible I would like someone to add a bit about how the Voice of Women played a big role in the whole Nuke decision. I would have, but I'm afraid of messing up the article. Also, the article can be constured as misleading, the part about "Dief's refusal to allow nukes into Canada", from what I understand, he was on the fence and the VoW was what changed his mind.
Other than, great article.
The wiki page on the Nickle Resolution states that Dief was made a Member of the Order of Merit and the Trudeau was a Companion of Honour, however on Dief's postnominals it says CH instead of OM. Which is correct ? Dowew 20:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Dief never made it to France. He never saw action in the trenches. As much as I loved him and his Vision for Canada, I cannot let this go misreported in the article. For validation, see "Rogue Tory" by Denis Smith, ISBN# 0-921912-92-7. Dief claimed an injury whilst in training in England, spitting blood, and was discharged back to Canada where he was further judged unfit for Military Service due to heart irregularities. I have corrected that article to reflect this reality. (Posted by TrulyTory, 3 December 2005)
Can 16 months in the Army truly be considered "brief"? Granted he never saw combat but it seems strange to say that, considering he did become an officer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by McDingus ( talk • contribs) 04:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Any sustantiation for the claim that this was controversial? Diefenbaker was 83 and frail when Clark assumed the premiership, and I don't recall there being any serious discussion of his inclusion in cabinet. - Fishhead64, 05 Feb 2006
Edna Mae Brower was born in 1899, not 1901.
Between his election to the Wakaw Town Council in 1920 and his election to Parliament in 1940, Mr. Diefenbaker was a losing candidate in five elections. They were: the Federal Elections of 1925 and 1926, the Saskatchewan Provincial Elections of 1929 and 1938, and the Prince Albert Mayoral Race in 1933. He never ran for office in Alberta.
Mr. Diefenbaker first mounted a campaign for Leader of the Conservative Party in 1942, and lost to John Bracken in the Convention of that year. The Leadership Convention was not held in 1943.
Mr. Diefenbaker's courageous stand against apartheid took place at the 1961 Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, not the 1962 Conference. PeterNixon 00:12, 9 December 2006.
As a matter purely of style, I can't tell from reading the early list of accomplishments whether Dief founded or abolished the Economic Council of Canada. It sounds as if he should be credited with founding it, but the verb immediately before it is 'abolished', with reference to the Avro Arrow program. Maybe the note about the ECC could be moved to before the mention of the Avro Arrow? The decision about the ECC is not mentioned elsewhere on the page, e.g. in the description of Dief's time as PM. Johndgregory ( talk) 03:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Was Dief the first Canadian PM with military service? None of the previous PM's articles mention any time in uniform. -- SigPig | SEND - OVER 07:37, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:Diefenbaker Time Magazine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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This page is in the 'Orange Order' and 'Orangemen' categories, but doesn't say that Diefenbaker was an Orangeman. I know nothing about the guy, but the page should either mention he was in the Orange Order or be removed from those categories. -- Helenalex 20:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure that the listing of the | honorific-suffix = PC CH QC LLD ( hc, McM) LLD ( hc, StM) LLD ( hc, UBC) LLD ( hc, UNB) LLD ( hc, PU) LLD ( hc, UofT) LLD ( hc, UW) LLD ( hc, QU) LLD ( hc, Dal) LLD ( hc, MUN) LLD ( hc, WLU) LLD ( hc, UA) DCL ( hc, Sask) DCL ( hc, UWO) MA LLB BA FRSC FRSA in the infobox works well. I have moved these here to preserve the information. Comments? FWIW Bzuk ( talk) 15:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC).
The Avro Arrow paragraph would be strengthened with an examination of the causes leading to its cancellation. It should be noted that, had they been re-elected, the Liberal Party would have canceled the program. While criticisms were made by the Liberal opposition regarding the way in which the cancellation, they did not criticize the decision to do so. The program was eating up an increasing proportion of the defence budget. The cost of the planes had increased five-fold from that originally budgeted to the manufacturing costs when the program was terminated. There were no international buyers. Interestingly, the Avro Arrow had never been flight tested with both the Iroquois engine and its weapons system. PieterGordon ( talk) 20:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Weeks before his death, Diefenbaker was indignant that very near his home, in the Rockcliffe neighbourhood, the Iraqi ambassador had a middle-east style wall built around the property. Diefenbaker strutted around nearby one day during news coverage of the controversy. Diefenbaker said that when Parliament met in the fall of 1979, he would demand in the House that the wall be demolished. Whether anyone took up the cause after his death is not known to me. GBC ( talk) 00:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I was reading this article about the St Lawrence Seaway turning 50 this year, and saw the following -- "The seaway held its official opening ceremony on June 26, 1959. Queen Elizabeth, Prince Philip, U.S. president Dwight D. Eisenhower and prime minister John Diefenbaker sailed through the seaway and St. Lambert Lock on the royal yacht Britannia........." Very interesting report, so in an effort to learn more I followed my nose to our St Lawrence Seaway article and discovered it says "Queen Elizabeth II and President Dwight D. Eisenhower formally opened the Seaway........". No mention of Diefenbacker, which I thought was curious, to say the least. Comments? Kaiwhakahaere ( talk) 21:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi, it is my intention to thoroughly work over the article with a view towards getting it to FAC in early 2010. Collaborators welcome.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 16:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Most prime ministers have it as mf=yes for the birth/death date parameters. Perhaps we should change it to that? Connormah ( talk) 16:56, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
A references section would be useful, with Diefenbaker books, movies, and records listed. 70.29.78.233 ( talk) 19:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC) 70.29.78.233 ( talk) 19:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps it might be wise to add a pronunciation in the lead? Connormah ( talk) 23:27, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The lead refers to Dief as an "attorney". Why is this term, not used by lawyers in Canada, used here? Unless there is some reason, it should be changed to "lawyer" which I will do unless there is objection. The article cites Peter C Newman as saying Dief did 62 jury trials in one year. Surely not. I doubt that there were that many jury trials in the whole province in a year. Does someone have access to Newman's book to see whether this claim is actually supported by Newman's book? -- KenWalker | Talk 05:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
In the introduction, it states "...his family trekked west to the portion of the Northwest Territories...". Did his family actually trek out to the west, or did they travel there as most others did? (If they did trek there, do we have a source for it?)
Other potential tweaks in the intro:
I'll add other suggestions as I read each section. Mind matrix 22:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
More tweaks:
More to come. Mind matrix 23:12, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
I see that NormanEinstein has added a link to the Diefenbunker. Other info that may be of relevance:
Other than that, this article seems complete and comprehensive. I've done a complete review, and conditional on the above (with your discretion for the first point listed) I'll add my support to the FAC. Mind matrix 03:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Good point on removing my external link to the article on Dief in the Dictionary -- sorry I didn't look closer before I did it. What do you think of including it in the bibliography? I suggest this because I think it's a very valuable source, being written by his primary biographer AND being super-easily accessibly by virtue of the fact that it's online. As well, because it's buried in the footnotes it might slip by many readers. -- The Fwanksta ( talk) 04:53, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Totally fair. This is an excellent article, which is a nice change of pace for Canadian history on Wiki -- something I'm hoping to help change. Hope to perhaps work with you in the future. Cheers. -- The Fwanksta ( talk) 18:21, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
"By the end of 1963, the first of the Bomarc warheads entered Canada, where they remained until the last were finally phased out during John Turner's brief government in 1984."
This sentence contradicts CIM-10 Bomarc (sections "Canada and the Bomarc" and "Operation") which states that the warheads were phased out twelve years earlier. -- Voyager ( talk) 09:56, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
Didn't accept a change here [3] because [4] lists his father's name as William, not danny. Hobit ( talk) 16:55, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
The Government of Canada is a primary source for the history of Prime Ministers. It is the source used for the List of Prime Ministers of Canada. Why would we say the Government of Canada is wrong? 117Avenue ( talk) 22:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Someone added information alleging Dief may have had an illegitimate child in the late 60s, and there will be DNA testing with the cooperation of the Diefenbaker Centre. I suggest we ignore it unless and until it's shown this guy is Dief's kid. If so, add something tasteful and sourced. But unless and until that happens, do nothing.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 00:01, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
8 January 2013 Another follow-up article, for consideration. At the very least, Children could be changed to "none confirmed" to reflect this possibility-- rather than burying the notion of an illegitimate child deeply in this talk page. From the following article: "Dryden said he still planned to change his name to Diefenbaker in light of an earlier DNA test he said shows he’s related to the ex-PM’s clan." With the surprising visual similarity, and enough result to suggest he's at least connected to the Diefenbaker family, it's worth opening up the consideration.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1312157--alleged-son-of-john-diefenbaker-wants-mother-to-confirm-paternit — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.78.199.60 ( talk) 02:49, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
A further DNA development in the news yesterday as reported here by CBC. If I have it straight, Dryden's DNA has now been shown to match that of three brothers named Goertzen in Saskatchewan, whose father (now deceased) was born in 1939 to Diefenbaker's housekeeper. Since Dryden and the Goertzens' father were born about 30 years and 2 provinces apart, it seems doubtful there would be anyone else in common in the backgrounds of both mothers. Dirac66 ( talk) 17:31, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
To bring this issue back again, it is more likely than not that both the lately deceased George John Dryden and John Eric LaMarche aka Edward Thorne were both sons of John Diefenbaker and should be mentioned as a paragraph in their likely father's article. Evidence: 1) 99.99% probability that Thorne's sons and Dryden were related in a manner consistent with an uncle-nephew relationship. 2) The LaMarche/Thorne/Geortzen family and Dryden appear to have had no other commonality than the proximity of Mrs. Dryden and Ms. Lamarche to Mr. Diefenbaker. 3) Physical likeness of Dryden to Diefenbaker. 4) The DNA evidence from the discarded earwax of an uncooperative Diefenbaker relative is consistent with a distant relationship. It may not be provable on a "beyond reasonable doubt" basis, and the cumulative weight of the evidence is stronger than any single piece of it, but the "balance of probabilities" seems to be met. I can't think of an alternative hypothesis that is as persuasive (is Diefenbaker's brother as likely as Diefenbaker? Could this all be fabricated, and if so, to what benefit? All seem less likely than what Dryden and the Goertzens allege). RWIR 2 May 2016
If sensitivity is the barrier: We talk of the sensitivity of the matter for Diefenbaker's legacy, but we shouldn't forget the apparent descendants either. Perhaps some parallel to the Jefferson–Hemings_controversy and the time it took for their allegations to gain acceptance. RWIR 2 May 2016
This
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As a young man John served his community as a member of the Eclectic Club (4 clubs existed in Saskatchewan), which in 1926 merged with the Kinsmen Organization (Kinsmen and Kinette Clubs of Canada) of which he took an active role.
reference... http://reddeerkinsmen.com/about/11-history
70.73.120.184 ( talk) 02:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
At his on-air retirement from CBC News, Knowlton Nash recounted an anecdote from when he was a foreign correspondent and had been sent to Cuba on assignment. The hotel where he was staying had a large portrait of Castro, another of Lenin -- and a third, of Diefenbaker. When Nash asked about this, he was told that they had heard Dief was honored for his anti-American stance (presumably on the missile question, given the implied time of this incident, although Nash did not say in the interview). 121a0012 ( talk) 18:56, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
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The articles about most of the Canadian prime ministers who have followed Diefenbaker have sections about the honorary degrees they have received. See Lester B. Pearson#Honorary degrees, Pierre Trudeau#Honorary degrees, Joe Clark#Honorary degrees, John Turner#Honorary degrees, Brian Mulroney#Honorary degrees, Kim Campbell#Honorary degrees, Jean Chrétien#Honorary degrees, Paul Martin#Honorary degrees, and Stephen Harper#Honorary degrees. In light of this pattern, it would seem to be appropriate for Diefenbaker as well. However, an editor removed a section for that on the grounds that it was not encyclopedic. Does anyone else have an opinion about that? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:07, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
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I suppose that the roots of his grandparents' ancestors (probably called "Diefenbacher") lie in the village of Diefenbach which is situated just a few kilometres south of Adersbach and Sinsheim. -- Kolya ( talk) 11:43, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Someone who knows how really ought to add his electoral record. He ran for many offices, and as a former PM, such information would be critical to making this a complete entry. BlewsClews ( talk) 01:50, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Mentioning Diefenbaker as the only prime minister from the PC party (a successor-in-name only, to the original Conservative party) between 1935 and 1979, will suffice. GoodDay ( talk) 01:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
User:GoodDay what sounds better/more gramatically correct? "He led his party to three election victories, though only once with a majority of seats in the House of Commons." or "He led his party to three election victories, although only once with a majority of seats in the House of Commons." Ak-eater06 ( talk) 05:00, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Which do you think should be in the first paragraph of the lead? Ak-eater06 ( talk) 16:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Comment It's very unusual for an RFC to propose a choice of "A or B", both chosen by Ak-eater. Isn't this something of a false choice? Neither represents the version that's been a FA for eleven years, or my personal preference, just two chosen by Ak-eater.-- Wehwalt ( talk) 19:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Comment I don't know why the tag was removed from this RFC, but what's in the article intro is simply a dang mess. The 1930 to 1979 bit, gives the impression that the Liberals were in power for 49 consecutive years. Completely wiping out Richard B. Bennett. GoodDay ( talk) 02:14, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
I've restored the RFC tag, as it was removed without explanation & the RFC was barely a week old. GoodDay ( talk) 23:02, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Folks, I reopened this RFC, on the advice of User:GoodDay. I was new to this RFC stuff and wrongly instantly closed it as I assumed that the "C" side won. However, I did this prematurely as I didn't follow the rules of the RFC. Five responses was not enough and I'll leave this open for one or two more weeks. My apologies for the confusion I created.
The RFC for this is reopened. I encourage any user who hasn't inserted their opinion to please participate in the survey. Happy holidays. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 19:42, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
rfc}}
tag (exclusive) to the next valid timestamp (inclusive). Your edit that I linked above added 616 bytes to the RfC statement, and the
next edit added a further 84: these two taken together tipped it over the edge.
My edit yesterday shortened the statement from 2,511 bytes to 203, and so it is now well within the capabilities of Legobot, as evidenced by
this edit. --
Redrose64 🌹 (
talk)
09:14, 28 December 2021 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should the first sentence of the first lead paragraph show full dates, or just the years?
My argument: I believe that Option B is good as every single PM of Canada article (including John A. Macdonald) has years rather than exact, precise dates. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 20:26, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm a tad confused here. Why are some editors putting their 'vote' in the discussion sub-section, rather then the 'survey' sub-section. Also, why was the preceding RFC tag removed? GoodDay ( talk) 02:03, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
I've had enough of this. The previous RFC was prematurely closed, I re-tagged it & it was prematurely closed again. That did enough to 'tick' me off. GoodDay ( talk) 01:28, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Wehwalt it seems like you have rather controlled this article. Nearly all edits I make on this article are instantly reverted. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia. I understand you made major contributions to this article but you do not own it. You shouldn't have a problem with an RFC either and you having a problem with it makes me a bit suspicious. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 02:15, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
{{
rfc}}
template." That is what happened. These are just the normal Wikipedia processes.--
Wehwalt (
talk)
02:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)Ak-eater06, you're allowed to resume (via re-adding the RFC tag) the preceding RFC. Keep it open for a month (until the RFC tag expires) & then get an outsider to decide the result. GoodDay ( talk) 19:22, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
Okay User:Wehwalt, shall we close the RFC? Ak-eater06 ( talk) 23:25, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
I found out about this rule Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus" and would like some people's thoughts on it, as a request for consensus has been drawn out multiple times on this article over the past few months.
I am not trying to create any argument or conflict and I don't even agree with this rule. However, maybe we should discuss/clarify this for future edits to the lead. Ak-eater06 ( talk) 02:48, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
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