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Sorry about the slightly fuzzy Cabot Tower picture. It's an enlargement of a tiny portion from a ==
== larger image. I'll dig out a better one when I can. Nevilley
I am now convinced that Richard America is the name sake of America, but John Cabot "was the first European after the Vikings who is known to have sighted North America"?? We all know Christopher Columbus wasn't the first European by a long shot to successfully cross the Atlantic, but what about the others who made the voyage between the 11th and 15th centuries? The Basque fisherman of the 14th century, Henry Sinclair in the early 15th century, even some of the Knights Templar are widely held to have made the journey when fleeing from France in 1307 - landing somewhere in Massachusetts/Rhode Island. See more on: http://www.millersville.edu/~columbus/papers/wrhagen.html I move for the sentence to be changed. -- Gabbe 14:16 Dec 13, 2002 (UTC)
It's indeed too strong a statement. However he is still the first one of which we are sure; with the exception of the Vikings (and the Native Americans if you want to count them in), none of the pre-Columbian discoveries is more than a 'maybe'.
For the cases you mention:
Basque (as well as Breton, Portuguese or English) fishermen may well have discovered North America, and more in particular the Newfoundland banks, before Cabot. There are certainly later cases where the Europeans that were supposed to 'discover' certain region met European fishers or whalers there, for example Jacques Cartier in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. However, very little information is known on these fishing voyages, and there is no positive evidence before the first decennium of the sixteenth century.
The claim for Henry Sinclair does not have much evidence; its main written source is the story of the Zeno brothers, which is connected to him by some, but may as well have been a 16th century fake.
The story of the Knights Templar I have never heared before, so I cannot comment on it.
Andre Engels 16:29 Dec 13, 2002 (UTC)
There's a revert war going on about the following:
Vinland is largely speculated to be Newfoundland, amongst other Atlantic Canada areas and the east coast of North America in the United States, depending on who you talk to. Adam of Bremen's account may have inspired John Cabot's mission across the Atlantic Ocean during the Americas' colonial times. That voyage would appear to have traced the former account, which led Cabot to claim Newfoundland for England, paving the way for the establishment the first chartered city in the New_World at St.John's. That place is generally considered where Cabot's first landfall was.
This section was first in Adam of Bremen, where it didn't belong. If it is to fit in here, it definitely needs to be rewritten heavily, as the suddenly launching into a discussion on Adam of Bremen and Vinland is extremely confusing. If there are indeed theories that Adam of Bremen's accounts inspired Cabot's journey then it would be good to mention them here. Is there anything in the literature about this? A googling didn't turn up anything on this. Martijn faassen 15:07, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
what did his parents do _ how do u thank Giovanni Caboto died
i dont know how to fix this but the pic of him on the site is not him. it is his son, sebastian. other sites on the web have pics of him posted. this pic was even used on a canadian stamp once. but its still not him. i think that it is him.It says so in my social studies book.I'm not really sure, but i'm just guessing.since u got points, probrally you're the one who is right.I'm still not really sure though.Maybe you are actually right.
From Gaeta, please. If it can be disputed, however, I never heard I came from Genoa. -- Attilios 15:32, 16 November 2006 (
Please, write a serious article about the life of John Cabot instead of mentiong the vikings, the fake map of vinland, erik the red and other bulls. lol John Cabot, whose real name was Giovanni Caboto (1450-1498) was born in Gaeta, not Genoa, and he was son of a rich family. In 1470 he married the Venetian Mattea Bragadin, who gave birth to Ludovico, Sebastiano and Sante (not Sancio). In 1498 Caboto and his son Sante were killed in Canada by natives, according to the portuguese papers of 1501, October 19. You can find more about him trying to translate from Italian into english the following books, which are absolutely accurate: - "I Caboto Cives Caietani" by Salvatore Riciniello - "La Passione per Scoprire" by Frank Alusio A short article about Cabot: http://64.78.37.9/tribuna/article.asp?article=82&item=27&n=309&month=4&year=2003 Jack 22:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Why does the article stop just when he arrives in England? Bastie 22:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Bastie, IMHO there are many idiots who never studied history. They are nationalists, love to cut the truth and add their own bulls and opinions. Someone should stop them. -- Jack 18:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
lol, is there some sort of Italian vs. English quarrel over this article? I don't think anyone seriously denies he was Italian. Bastie 18:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
No Bastie, there is no quarrel between Italian and English wikipedians. The fact is that some guys love to act as idiots, or love to write bulls about Caboto. First of all Caboto was from Gaeta and not from Genoa. Second, Gaeta is in Latium and not near Naples. Some writers ignore that in Italy there are two countries with the same name, Gaeta! In fact it is in Latium that we have the first papers about Caboto's family and ancestors. In addition some idiot continues to delete the proved data we know about him (eg. the name of his wife Mattea Bragadin etc., the data about England etc.)
There is another disagreement, and it is about the vikings names. Stop writing those bulls, please. We only know that the colonizers of Canada were men of northern origin (from Iceland? Great Britain? Norway? Ireland?..) but historically speaking there is no proof of who, really, they were, from which country they came etc. Also, we don't know their real names (eg. Leif Ericson is only supported by Myths and Sagas, not history.) Theories and personal opinions, especially about a fake map named Vinland, are useless here.
Jack
02:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes there is! If some writes something bad about Cabot, you would be mad too!
Can someone fix the Born/Death date? Its been vandalized since February.
For some reason or another, there is no information on the actual voyage. Is this caused by vandalism, lack of information, or simply no one having bothered to continue? A Max J 13:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes the article is very poor. Surprising, since this should be one of the most important pages on English wiki. Drutt 16:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Surprisingly it's the end of May and still nothing on the actual voyages. I'm going to see if I can change that. Esprix 12:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Just thought I should let you all know that a lot of the text in this article is copied straight from this site. http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/cabot.html
Can anyone help with the exploration section? DangerousNerd talk 20:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Why has this been moved from John Cabot? That has always been his name in English. Drutt 09:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
IMO, it should work the other way, Giovanni Caboto links to John Cabot. This is English Wikipedia, most people are going to search for "John Cabot" Benkenobi18 15:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what to do about this, but the picture of Cabot (J) is actually a picture of his son, Cabot (S). See John Pope's book, the Many Landfalls of John Cabot, and also note the wacky double beard. Does anyone know of a real picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.181.175 ( talk) 09:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
===I removed this inaccurate picture. I found it in Golay and Bowman's North American Exploration too.
Picture has been removed. It is not a reliable source. The picture was linked to a 3rd Grade explorer project. In the sources for the Grade 3 project the Mariner's Museum lists the picture as Sebastian Cabot (if you scroll over it). It is an inaccuracy and an oversight.
Malachi is survivin ( talk) 03:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone ever looked into the theory proposed by Rodney Broome that John Cabot was murdered after he sailed down the coast of North American and his maps were taken from him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.1.209.230 ( talk) 19:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I just wanna know. And also, did he have any significant contact with the Native tribes during his expedition? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennisjiewenliu ( talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
If John Cabot is recognized to have landed in Newfoundland, he cannot be the discoverer of the North American mainland, because Newfoundland is an island. As far as I know, any visits to the mainland are unrecognized speculation. So the intro should be reworded.-- Boffob ( talk) 15:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Sorry about the slightly fuzzy Cabot Tower picture. It's an enlargement of a tiny portion from a ==
== larger image. I'll dig out a better one when I can. Nevilley
I am now convinced that Richard America is the name sake of America, but John Cabot "was the first European after the Vikings who is known to have sighted North America"?? We all know Christopher Columbus wasn't the first European by a long shot to successfully cross the Atlantic, but what about the others who made the voyage between the 11th and 15th centuries? The Basque fisherman of the 14th century, Henry Sinclair in the early 15th century, even some of the Knights Templar are widely held to have made the journey when fleeing from France in 1307 - landing somewhere in Massachusetts/Rhode Island. See more on: http://www.millersville.edu/~columbus/papers/wrhagen.html I move for the sentence to be changed. -- Gabbe 14:16 Dec 13, 2002 (UTC)
It's indeed too strong a statement. However he is still the first one of which we are sure; with the exception of the Vikings (and the Native Americans if you want to count them in), none of the pre-Columbian discoveries is more than a 'maybe'.
For the cases you mention:
Basque (as well as Breton, Portuguese or English) fishermen may well have discovered North America, and more in particular the Newfoundland banks, before Cabot. There are certainly later cases where the Europeans that were supposed to 'discover' certain region met European fishers or whalers there, for example Jacques Cartier in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. However, very little information is known on these fishing voyages, and there is no positive evidence before the first decennium of the sixteenth century.
The claim for Henry Sinclair does not have much evidence; its main written source is the story of the Zeno brothers, which is connected to him by some, but may as well have been a 16th century fake.
The story of the Knights Templar I have never heared before, so I cannot comment on it.
Andre Engels 16:29 Dec 13, 2002 (UTC)
There's a revert war going on about the following:
Vinland is largely speculated to be Newfoundland, amongst other Atlantic Canada areas and the east coast of North America in the United States, depending on who you talk to. Adam of Bremen's account may have inspired John Cabot's mission across the Atlantic Ocean during the Americas' colonial times. That voyage would appear to have traced the former account, which led Cabot to claim Newfoundland for England, paving the way for the establishment the first chartered city in the New_World at St.John's. That place is generally considered where Cabot's first landfall was.
This section was first in Adam of Bremen, where it didn't belong. If it is to fit in here, it definitely needs to be rewritten heavily, as the suddenly launching into a discussion on Adam of Bremen and Vinland is extremely confusing. If there are indeed theories that Adam of Bremen's accounts inspired Cabot's journey then it would be good to mention them here. Is there anything in the literature about this? A googling didn't turn up anything on this. Martijn faassen 15:07, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
what did his parents do _ how do u thank Giovanni Caboto died
i dont know how to fix this but the pic of him on the site is not him. it is his son, sebastian. other sites on the web have pics of him posted. this pic was even used on a canadian stamp once. but its still not him. i think that it is him.It says so in my social studies book.I'm not really sure, but i'm just guessing.since u got points, probrally you're the one who is right.I'm still not really sure though.Maybe you are actually right.
From Gaeta, please. If it can be disputed, however, I never heard I came from Genoa. -- Attilios 15:32, 16 November 2006 (
Please, write a serious article about the life of John Cabot instead of mentiong the vikings, the fake map of vinland, erik the red and other bulls. lol John Cabot, whose real name was Giovanni Caboto (1450-1498) was born in Gaeta, not Genoa, and he was son of a rich family. In 1470 he married the Venetian Mattea Bragadin, who gave birth to Ludovico, Sebastiano and Sante (not Sancio). In 1498 Caboto and his son Sante were killed in Canada by natives, according to the portuguese papers of 1501, October 19. You can find more about him trying to translate from Italian into english the following books, which are absolutely accurate: - "I Caboto Cives Caietani" by Salvatore Riciniello - "La Passione per Scoprire" by Frank Alusio A short article about Cabot: http://64.78.37.9/tribuna/article.asp?article=82&item=27&n=309&month=4&year=2003 Jack 22:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Why does the article stop just when he arrives in England? Bastie 22:02, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Bastie, IMHO there are many idiots who never studied history. They are nationalists, love to cut the truth and add their own bulls and opinions. Someone should stop them. -- Jack 18:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
lol, is there some sort of Italian vs. English quarrel over this article? I don't think anyone seriously denies he was Italian. Bastie 18:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
No Bastie, there is no quarrel between Italian and English wikipedians. The fact is that some guys love to act as idiots, or love to write bulls about Caboto. First of all Caboto was from Gaeta and not from Genoa. Second, Gaeta is in Latium and not near Naples. Some writers ignore that in Italy there are two countries with the same name, Gaeta! In fact it is in Latium that we have the first papers about Caboto's family and ancestors. In addition some idiot continues to delete the proved data we know about him (eg. the name of his wife Mattea Bragadin etc., the data about England etc.)
There is another disagreement, and it is about the vikings names. Stop writing those bulls, please. We only know that the colonizers of Canada were men of northern origin (from Iceland? Great Britain? Norway? Ireland?..) but historically speaking there is no proof of who, really, they were, from which country they came etc. Also, we don't know their real names (eg. Leif Ericson is only supported by Myths and Sagas, not history.) Theories and personal opinions, especially about a fake map named Vinland, are useless here.
Jack
02:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes there is! If some writes something bad about Cabot, you would be mad too!
Can someone fix the Born/Death date? Its been vandalized since February.
For some reason or another, there is no information on the actual voyage. Is this caused by vandalism, lack of information, or simply no one having bothered to continue? A Max J 13:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes the article is very poor. Surprising, since this should be one of the most important pages on English wiki. Drutt 16:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Surprisingly it's the end of May and still nothing on the actual voyages. I'm going to see if I can change that. Esprix 12:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Just thought I should let you all know that a lot of the text in this article is copied straight from this site. http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/cabot.html
Can anyone help with the exploration section? DangerousNerd talk 20:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Why has this been moved from John Cabot? That has always been his name in English. Drutt 09:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
IMO, it should work the other way, Giovanni Caboto links to John Cabot. This is English Wikipedia, most people are going to search for "John Cabot" Benkenobi18 15:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what to do about this, but the picture of Cabot (J) is actually a picture of his son, Cabot (S). See John Pope's book, the Many Landfalls of John Cabot, and also note the wacky double beard. Does anyone know of a real picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.181.175 ( talk) 09:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
===I removed this inaccurate picture. I found it in Golay and Bowman's North American Exploration too.
Picture has been removed. It is not a reliable source. The picture was linked to a 3rd Grade explorer project. In the sources for the Grade 3 project the Mariner's Museum lists the picture as Sebastian Cabot (if you scroll over it). It is an inaccuracy and an oversight.
Malachi is survivin ( talk) 03:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone ever looked into the theory proposed by Rodney Broome that John Cabot was murdered after he sailed down the coast of North American and his maps were taken from him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.1.209.230 ( talk) 19:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I just wanna know. And also, did he have any significant contact with the Native tribes during his expedition? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennisjiewenliu ( talk • contribs) 02:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
If John Cabot is recognized to have landed in Newfoundland, he cannot be the discoverer of the North American mainland, because Newfoundland is an island. As far as I know, any visits to the mainland are unrecognized speculation. So the intro should be reworded.-- Boffob ( talk) 15:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)