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While I personally agree with some of the criticisms, it reads very much like a brief from the UFT. It'd be interesting to have Klein's rationale alongside the criticisms, rather than a blanket statement reading something like "Klein instituted this program WHICH IS STUPID AND SERVES NO PURPOSE." Voxish ( talk) 16:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I cannot believe that the chancellor of eduction in NYC has a wikipedia page that doesn't say where he went to school. I would like to know if he went to the same overpriced, underperforming public schools he makes children suffer through. P.S. i would bet the farm that he went to private schools or elite public schools. Peppermintschnapps ( talk) 16:10, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
That criticisms section ain't coming back UNLESS someone rewords it in a WP:BLP friendly way. WhisperToMe ( talk) 23:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
My edit to the section heading on the Rashid Khalidi/Academic Freedom controversy was recently reverted with the edit summary "the controversy was not over rashid khalidi, but about putting caps on academic freedom." I readily admit I did not follow the story closely, but it seems to me that to phrase it an "academic freedom controversy" when the only actual issue was the fact that Mr Khalidi was fired is very much a POV statement. He did not overtly try to limit academic freedom, he was accused of it by critics because he fired one person, very likely due to his political beliefs. This absolutely raises questions related to academic freedom, but to say that the "controversy was not over rashid khalidi" seems to me to be false, or at least, totally unsupported by any of the citations. The sources I have found indicate that the controversy was about Mr Khalidi's firing and to title the section "academic freedom controversy" represents the POV of Mr Klein's detractors. A perfectly reasonable argument can be made that Mr Klein thought it inappropriate that someone with admittedly strong and public feelings be instructing teachers on how to teach this subject. That may or may not be the case but Mr. Klein claimed it. If you can produce some sources that indicate that Mr Khalidi was not at the center of the controversy (indeed as far as I can tell he is the only person affected) I would be more than happy to acquiesce. As I said, I did not follow the story closely. But until such sources are produced, to claim that the controversy was not about Khalidi and was purely about academic freedom, I believe represents the POV of Mr. Klein's critics to the detriment of the neutrality of the article. -- InspectorTiger ( talk) 23:26, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Changed. I am not an academic, nor do i try to pass myself off as one. My comments are based on respectable news outlets (also known on wikipedia as "sources"): NYT [1], NY Sun [2] [3], Village Voice [4], Gotham Magazine [5] etc as well as advocacy groups (NYCLU (PDF), ACJ [6] etc) (please don't bother explaining why some of the sources are non-neutral, zionist-controlled, right-wing or whatever. they, as a whole, represent prominent organizations from a broad range of political viewpoints). You are correct, I'm perfectly willing to admit it, I had never heard of Khalidi until i began rewriting this article. However, as my sources show, I did a lot of research on the topic and would have been more than happy to look at any sources you suggested--besides your own opinion--had you provided any. You obviously believe very strongly that Khalidi should not have been fired. I'm actually inclined to agree with you on that, but it's completely irrelevant. The question for WP is not "who was right in the controversy?" it's "what was the controversy about and who were the players." You can only win this kind of argument by providing facts and sources, not by complaining about "partisan news outlets," "extreme zionist views," and media harassment by the Zionist lobby. I'm not trying to change your mind or anyone else's; i'm not even saying I disagree with you. I'm trying to create an article that reflects the non-original research of trustworthy sources about a controversial topic in an NPOV way. -- InspectorTiger ( talk) 20:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
This section does not make sense as it stands. The items cited are not charitable work on the part of Klein, but rather interaction he had with charities while doing his job as chancellor (i.e. work not charity). Also, it violates NPOV... In the absence of any section on criticisms, isolated statistics like the graduation rates from the Gates small schools are biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcuringa ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Joel Klein article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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While I personally agree with some of the criticisms, it reads very much like a brief from the UFT. It'd be interesting to have Klein's rationale alongside the criticisms, rather than a blanket statement reading something like "Klein instituted this program WHICH IS STUPID AND SERVES NO PURPOSE." Voxish ( talk) 16:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I cannot believe that the chancellor of eduction in NYC has a wikipedia page that doesn't say where he went to school. I would like to know if he went to the same overpriced, underperforming public schools he makes children suffer through. P.S. i would bet the farm that he went to private schools or elite public schools. Peppermintschnapps ( talk) 16:10, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
That criticisms section ain't coming back UNLESS someone rewords it in a WP:BLP friendly way. WhisperToMe ( talk) 23:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
My edit to the section heading on the Rashid Khalidi/Academic Freedom controversy was recently reverted with the edit summary "the controversy was not over rashid khalidi, but about putting caps on academic freedom." I readily admit I did not follow the story closely, but it seems to me that to phrase it an "academic freedom controversy" when the only actual issue was the fact that Mr Khalidi was fired is very much a POV statement. He did not overtly try to limit academic freedom, he was accused of it by critics because he fired one person, very likely due to his political beliefs. This absolutely raises questions related to academic freedom, but to say that the "controversy was not over rashid khalidi" seems to me to be false, or at least, totally unsupported by any of the citations. The sources I have found indicate that the controversy was about Mr Khalidi's firing and to title the section "academic freedom controversy" represents the POV of Mr Klein's detractors. A perfectly reasonable argument can be made that Mr Klein thought it inappropriate that someone with admittedly strong and public feelings be instructing teachers on how to teach this subject. That may or may not be the case but Mr. Klein claimed it. If you can produce some sources that indicate that Mr Khalidi was not at the center of the controversy (indeed as far as I can tell he is the only person affected) I would be more than happy to acquiesce. As I said, I did not follow the story closely. But until such sources are produced, to claim that the controversy was not about Khalidi and was purely about academic freedom, I believe represents the POV of Mr. Klein's critics to the detriment of the neutrality of the article. -- InspectorTiger ( talk) 23:26, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Changed. I am not an academic, nor do i try to pass myself off as one. My comments are based on respectable news outlets (also known on wikipedia as "sources"): NYT [1], NY Sun [2] [3], Village Voice [4], Gotham Magazine [5] etc as well as advocacy groups (NYCLU (PDF), ACJ [6] etc) (please don't bother explaining why some of the sources are non-neutral, zionist-controlled, right-wing or whatever. they, as a whole, represent prominent organizations from a broad range of political viewpoints). You are correct, I'm perfectly willing to admit it, I had never heard of Khalidi until i began rewriting this article. However, as my sources show, I did a lot of research on the topic and would have been more than happy to look at any sources you suggested--besides your own opinion--had you provided any. You obviously believe very strongly that Khalidi should not have been fired. I'm actually inclined to agree with you on that, but it's completely irrelevant. The question for WP is not "who was right in the controversy?" it's "what was the controversy about and who were the players." You can only win this kind of argument by providing facts and sources, not by complaining about "partisan news outlets," "extreme zionist views," and media harassment by the Zionist lobby. I'm not trying to change your mind or anyone else's; i'm not even saying I disagree with you. I'm trying to create an article that reflects the non-original research of trustworthy sources about a controversial topic in an NPOV way. -- InspectorTiger ( talk) 20:23, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
This section does not make sense as it stands. The items cited are not charitable work on the part of Klein, but rather interaction he had with charities while doing his job as chancellor (i.e. work not charity). Also, it violates NPOV... In the absence of any section on criticisms, isolated statistics like the graduation rates from the Gates small schools are biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcuringa ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:13, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
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