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Err, wikitionary or delete? Doesn't seem right.... -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm Jewish anyways. Could be expanded with some sort of a list of famous people matching some of the "criteria." Lenev | Talk | 01:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I just meant that it doesn't sound encyclopedic alone in its current state, more like slang (there are articles & categories for this) and/or something for wikitionary. *shrug* -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:07, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It also uses "bitchy" as an adjective in an encyclopedia article. Pardon my bitching, but that seems a little unprofessional.-- Lord Shitzu 22:50, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
I find it hilarious that the article 'requires attention.' Typical.
Is it always pejorative? I have wealthy Jewish family that refer to themselves as JAPs... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.253.191.171 ( talk) 19:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Cher Horowitz in Clueless is Jewish. In the television series, there is reference to her dressed as a dreidl child for Hanukkah! Writerchick 01:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Waht do "Beck" and "GHD'd" mean? The second paragraph under anti-antisemitism doesn't make any sense if you don;t know this jargon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.182.189 ( talk) 21:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
To the extent that this term reflects some kind of sociological reality, we should use references carefully. It is, after all, a slur, and our general approach should be to avoid substantiating the slur. -- Leifern 19:21, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree, but think it also needs more careful definition. The article makes it sound as though all Jewish women are JAPs, and of course the JAP is a subset. The Jewish intellectual feminist is no JAP -- at least, not recently. Your bubbe is probably not a JAP unless you're ten years old. Very few converts will make the grade. The woman who runs the foundation -- it doesn't matter which one -- has all the moxie of the JAP, but is not one. There are no JAPs from the Bronx.
Let us not forget that JAPs are tremendously successful in life. Annoying, yes. Hard to see over, true. The lip gloss can blind you. But you can count on a JAP to know the social rules wherever you go, apply them expertly on your behalf when necessary or convenient, and cut through a room of WASPs like a hot knife through butter when it comes to getting what she came for. She's a smart cookie and she'll earn her way into a good school, whether or not she cares for academics. She has more energy than you do and believe me, she knows how to say no. Sure, she'll criticize you -- and she'll be right. In motherhood, she becomes terrifying, and is unstoppable. She may be shallow (or not), but bet on it -- she knows what's important in life, and she'll see her children get it. In her highest form, she becomes Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and is in deep spiritual communion with her bubbe, who knew how to handle a baseball bat.
Also, the JAP has a daddy who loves her. How can this be bad?
The JAP Handbook should probably be consulted. As I recall it was largely accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.250.61 ( talk) 22:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I challenge User:Sigmafactor to demonstrate why the picture of Natalie Portman, who definitively meets the definition of Jewish-American princess, should not appear in this article.-- 67.167.159.163 06:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
It it pronounced jay-ay-pee or jap rhymes-with-sap? Also, is Rachel in Friends a JAP? Thanks.
I think that Gretchen Wieners typifies the archetypal JAP, if I've ever seen one.
http://live.quizilla.com/user_images/S/spamscam/1084505613_lsgretchen.jpg
Is there an application for this criteria when the subject is a non-jew, or should I stick with calling them "preps"? Also, is prep+jew=J.A.P. a safe assumption?
Personal experience indicates to me that there is much factual truth regarding what is supposedly a stereotype. So some are offended...... well, the truth CAN hurt.
Obbop
15:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Stereotypes do exist for a reason. Let's just avoid generalizing. Actually, I'm for expanding this article.
Sevenlies
16:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
This reads like an essay -- sounds like it draws its own conclusions about the origin of this stereotype, and gives examples, but these appear to be original conclusions and there are no sources cited. I'm tagging accordingly. YeahIKnow 15:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
This sentence in the opening paragraph is confusing: "It can be taken and meant as an ethno-religious and/or sexist stereotype or slur."
I haven't personally traveled all over the country (and, to a lesser extent, Canada) but I'm pretty sure this definition of "jap" isn't really a slur. Most of this article agrees with my personal experience that "jap" is a rather lighthearted term that's mostly used among.... well, "japs", if you'll forgive the expression. It's a lot like " army brat"-- any one who has even heard this term knows some one in the army with a kid well enough to not take offense.
The reason I'm putting "jap" in quotes is because it's seriously offensive to call some one a "jap" if they're of Japanese descent. I can remember more than one time when a young Jewish girl used the term, and it totally confused people who had not been enlightened about the whole Jewish Princess thing.
Anyway, that's why I put the tag up. - Haikon 15:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the pop culture section per WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR; it's reproduced here if it's felt that individual points are able to be integrated into the main article. Daniel C/ T + 17:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Characterization in popular culture
This is just another pop culture section similar to the one that was removed previously. Taken out for WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR. Daniel C/ T + 10:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
In the book "Death Of A Jewish American Princess: The True Story of a Victim on Trial" the author, Shirley Frandorf, tells the true story of a man, Restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who claimed he stabbed his wife to death while sleepwalking. According to the defense it was his wife's excesses that contributed to Steinberg's actions of which he was acquitted for. The author Frandorf, a psychiatric social worker, argues how the defenses stereotypical characterization of Elana Steinberg turned the victim into the villain. She further goes on to explain how the outcome brought fear to the women in the tight knit Jewish Community of Phoenix. [1]
WHTZ, of New York, recently played a song called " Jap Rap". They also ran a promotion called "Jap For A Day." The Anti-Defamation League complained about the song and its contest. Afterwards, the program director, Mr. Kingston, said, "if it offended anybody, we apologize." [2]
In 2004, the Style network sent out a casting memo for a show initially called "JAP Squad." The E! executive who sent the memo acknowledged its anti-Semitic overtones, reportedly writing, "I know, it’s an awful name. [But] I need girls who know where to go in NYC for the best deals." [3]
Frank Zappa used "Jewish Princess" as the title and subject of a song on his first independent album Sheik Yerbouti. When the Anti-Defamation League brought an objection to his attention, Zappa refused to apologize saying “They exist, so I wrote a song about them."
In the Mel Brooks movie Spaceballs, Princess Vespa tells Lone Starr she is "daughter of King Rowland, king of the Druids!" Lone Starr responds, "Oh great, a Druish princess." Barf chimes in, "Funny, she doesn't look Druish." The play on words is the similarity between "Jewish" and "Druish" and is a reference to Vespa's spoiled attitude.
The popular sitcom
The Nanny is said to be based on the stereotype of a JAP trying to land a rich man.
Like most articles, this one needs references and citations, and before these are given unreferenceable statements should be left out. Also, I think its important to keep an encyclopedic tone to this article. When I first saw it, it seemed like the author had just come to wikipedia after a seething argument or something. RSimione 15:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
How the heck can "JAP" be anti-Semitic when used by people within the Jewish community? I have a friend who is Jewish and refers to his wife as a "JAP" all the time. And he does so in front of her as well and no one seems offended by the term. In order to be anti-Semitic, there would have to be a sense of hate surrounding use of the word. I have never heard or read anyone, including non-Jews, use the term with a sense of hate behind it. This seems like another case of " Uncle Leo Syndrome". I think that the anti-Semitic label should be removed. Jtpaladin 19:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
In many countries JAP is still used to refer to Japanese. It is simply an abbreviation to Japanese. Yet the vitriolic context it has been used with has made the term unacceptable in the USA while in Australia they still use it even though the Japanese still find it offensive. Words do go through their changes. Homo is not acceptable term for a homosexual and Gay is so often used as negative connotation it is beginning to be replaced by new PC terms. I noticed that Negro is still used in academia in Thailand and some other countries. For a time, and for those of us that faced anti-Semitism in the 80s' during the first popularization of JAP, it brings back hurtful memories as are documented in the "original research" of "original research" that is noted. If you would care to note the positive connotations to this term (and site any research to back it up) I would be open and interested. But what you yourself and your friends do while sitting in your home is not research as you so clearly noted. We can argue all day over terms such as “Tar Baby,” “Macaca,” “Jap” or “Porch Monkey” but just because you “take it back” in your own home does not change the social implications of the word. As far as the offensiveness I would agree that overall the N-word carries more offensive weight do to the continued degree of institutionalized racism and the failure to close the many economic and social gaps between black and white world-wide (AS)
When referring to someone as a "JAP" you establish a stereotype and a negative label. It might not be related to race but it is just as bad. Even if you are Jewish, it gives you absolutely no right to label someone a "JAP". You are be lowering your own religion, and making it okay for others who are non-Jewish to label someone a "JAP". Although some beg to differ, I strongly believe that when someone labels another person whether it is the N word or any other degrading term, one can infer that it is okay for him to repeat the same thing. A great example is when you speak in front of a young child, he or she will repeat everything you say, good or bad because they do not understand the meaning of it. The same thing can apply to any degrading label, if someone calls another person a “JAP” one who doesn’t understand how hurtful and inappropriate the term means will repeat it as if it can be used in a regular conversation. Although “JAP” was intended to be a joke, over the years it has developed a negative connotation, and is very frowned upon in society. Nsaps ( talk) 17:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I have a comment about the following sentence:
"The term “JAP” is sometimes used as a self-identifier by non-jewish women of percieved privilege, but this can seem offensive."
Several edits have gone back and forth between putting the word "perceived" into this sentence. It seems to me make the sentence awkward, though I realize some sort of qualifier is needed. I think I'll change it to:
"The term "JAP" has been used by some women in order to be identified as privileged, but this manner can be offensive as it attempts to reinforce the stereotype."
How does that sound? RSimione 13:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I like the change to that sentence!! (AS)
This article is terrible. It is is need of a complete rewrite. It sounds like it was written by the ADL. All the instances given in the article are of a xenophobic nature. In reality 99.999999% of the times the term JAP is used it is not as such. Lighten up. --Jon in California 27 September 2007
Hey Jon, weren't you at the party the other day with Isiah Washington, George Allen, Michael Richards, Don Imus and Mel Gibson? Of course that's why 99.99% of the people in your little southern California world are fluent in non-offensive language. (AS) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.38.158.128 ( talk) 16:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, nice job on calling Jon an anti-Semite. Thats the best way to support your argument.. I understand that in some places this is used as a slur, but being fairly immersed in jewish culture, I know it isnt always or usually used as such. The fact that this article overwhelmingly focuses on its usage as anti-semetic and misogynistic misses a huge proportion of its other uses.
I want to ask if anyone has any problem with the Steven Steinberg case or the author of Death of a Jewish American Princess? I know there has been some confusion over the terms "acquitted." This man did stab his wife. He never denied it. And it was the result of Steinberg stabbing his wife 26 times that lead directly to her death. A major issue for the defense was that his wife was a stereotypical "Jewish-American Princess" which drove him to kill her and thus made him inculpable of his actions for psychological reasons. Acquittal does not mean you did not partake in the action but that you are not guilty of your actions. This case is an important example concerning the negative aspect of the JAP image. Please, if you have issues with the case then take it up in a separate wiki article or state why the author of the book was incorrect in her evaluation of the case. But do not delete this all too relevant case involving the “JAP” termonolgy and image.
Also some on this board have responded negatively to the article saying there are positive uses for the term but have failed to cite relevant records. I'm not even sure if the Space Balls comment was "positive" being that it still was said in a denigrating manner toward a specific group of "women." Please cite any relevant books, research or news items that you have found that mention the positive uses of the term JAP or Jewish American Princess. (AS)
.</ref> In 1982, Phoenix, Ariz., restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who killed his wife by stabbing her 26 times, was acquitted; while he did not deny stabbing her to death, his legal defense portrayed the victim as an overpowering "Jewish American Princess," whose excesses may have provoked her violent end. [4]
1111111 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
155.38.158.128 (
talk)
16:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, tihs is very interesting. I'm Jewish myself and I'm wondering why JAP is redirected to Jewish American Princess. It can ALSO be used as a term to denote Jewish American Prince. Either someone should change the redirection, or rename the article to JAP and explain it could mean Prince or Princess. I've seen both used and been called one (Jewish American Prince) myself as a student at Emory University.
Colleges with high Jewish populations seem to be where this term is used the most. (Emory University is over 30% Jewish). Moreover, I've noticed a heavy criticism of the word, and some user noted that it was due it being used negatively in the 80s. Among the current generation of college students, it is not used as harshly offensive term. I've noticed that most fellow college Jewish students use it more than any other group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.237.183.249 ( talk) 23:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The entire article talks about the usage and history of the term, but it doesn't really define it. What exactly IS a JAP? "implies materialistic and selfish tendencies, attributed to a pampered background" could be attributed to just about any affluent person. What specifically about a person would make other people stereotype them as a JAP? I mean, are you saying that any Jewish woman coming from a wealthy family is a JAP or are there other characteristics?
It's nice that all you in-community people have the terms' connotations so heartily internalized as to be having a debate over what celebrities can have the stereotype attributed to them, but this article really doesn't enlighten anyone who isn't ALREADY familiar with the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RemyK313 ( talk • contribs) 07:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
This article doesn't say anything of substance about the supposed stereotype. Needs re-writing. This article is worthless if it consists of discussions of ancillary items and says nothing about the actual stereotype. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.159.115.36 ( talk) 23:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Please divide this article into the consequences that the use of this horrible racial slur will create for white males who use it, and the convivial friendly sense that it entails when anyone else uses it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.253.227 ( talk) 08:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Not quite sure what you mean by racist. Jews come in all shapes and colors. I could understand that a it might not be intended as pejorative if used by a Jewish woman to refer to another woman but the root-history of the term remains the same. I had a Jewish woman ask if my fiancé was a JAP because of where she grew up- in a high-income town with a significant Jewish population. The first clue that something might be deemed an insult is if it seeks to box a group into a category for the use of stereotyping.Does it? Yes. Does it seek to say something negative about those within that stereotype? Yes. Even if someone might fit the first peramaters of the stereotype themselves ("Young Woman of Jewish Heritage with Wealth") it is still derogatory in the same fashion as any other comment that seeks to devalue a person by putting them in a box. Now a fair question is if it is possible to be derogatory about someone’s privileged life regardless of what it may entail about their character. In other words can being privileged possibly be negative? The insult of the JAP term is not concerned only with one being privileged it is what it also implies (spoiled, cold, winny, gaudy, etc.) And by that implication you degrade a person’s individuality by placing them in a category out of spite, love jest. Thus is derogatory out of anyone’s mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.38.30.140 ( talk) 17:21, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
While JAP can certainly be used in a racist way, this is not the point of the expression. What really is underneath it is (seemingly global) phenomenon of spoiled people, in particular women, growing up into brats, "princesses" and the like.
The main point is P, not JA. Further, in JA, I would actually rate the A as more important: The secondary point is not that these women are Jewish, but that they are American. (As opposed to Jewish-Polish/-Russian/-German/... Effectively, perceived images of the "traditional" and "modern" Jewish women are contrasted.)
It could conceivably be argued that the expression would be sexist; however, if it is only applied on the women (or, for all I care, men) who behave like princesses, even that is a misleading claim. As far as it may be pejorative: Pejorative does not necessarily mean unfair. (In contrast, if the phrase is over-extended and undue generalizations are made, then a case can be made against it.)
In all, the phrase should not be compared and contrasted to "nigger" or "gook", but with "valley girl" and "blond". 88.77.140.124 ( talk) 05:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Dows WP have an article on the song? Folks outside of the U.S. probably only know about this term due to Zappa. Danceswithzerglings ( talk) 11:55, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
So what about when Paris Hilton got into trouble for saying "we're JAPpy jews!"? Most west coast Americans born after 1985 had never even heard the term before that incident. -- 98.232.178.38 ( talk) 04:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
in joseph heller's book: "god knows" king david uses and explains this term, calling his first wife a jewish american princess.
i'd also remark, that the occurances in music albums (mentined above) i find difficult to accept as relevant because a song's lyrics can say only so much as in contrast to a book. 80.98.79.37 ( talk) 23:07, 24 June 2017 (UTC).
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Err, wikitionary or delete? Doesn't seem right.... -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm Jewish anyways. Could be expanded with some sort of a list of famous people matching some of the "criteria." Lenev | Talk | 01:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I just meant that it doesn't sound encyclopedic alone in its current state, more like slang (there are articles & categories for this) and/or something for wikitionary. *shrug* -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 06:07, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It also uses "bitchy" as an adjective in an encyclopedia article. Pardon my bitching, but that seems a little unprofessional.-- Lord Shitzu 22:50, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
I find it hilarious that the article 'requires attention.' Typical.
Is it always pejorative? I have wealthy Jewish family that refer to themselves as JAPs... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.253.191.171 ( talk) 19:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Cher Horowitz in Clueless is Jewish. In the television series, there is reference to her dressed as a dreidl child for Hanukkah! Writerchick 01:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Waht do "Beck" and "GHD'd" mean? The second paragraph under anti-antisemitism doesn't make any sense if you don;t know this jargon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.182.189 ( talk) 21:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
To the extent that this term reflects some kind of sociological reality, we should use references carefully. It is, after all, a slur, and our general approach should be to avoid substantiating the slur. -- Leifern 19:21, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree, but think it also needs more careful definition. The article makes it sound as though all Jewish women are JAPs, and of course the JAP is a subset. The Jewish intellectual feminist is no JAP -- at least, not recently. Your bubbe is probably not a JAP unless you're ten years old. Very few converts will make the grade. The woman who runs the foundation -- it doesn't matter which one -- has all the moxie of the JAP, but is not one. There are no JAPs from the Bronx.
Let us not forget that JAPs are tremendously successful in life. Annoying, yes. Hard to see over, true. The lip gloss can blind you. But you can count on a JAP to know the social rules wherever you go, apply them expertly on your behalf when necessary or convenient, and cut through a room of WASPs like a hot knife through butter when it comes to getting what she came for. She's a smart cookie and she'll earn her way into a good school, whether or not she cares for academics. She has more energy than you do and believe me, she knows how to say no. Sure, she'll criticize you -- and she'll be right. In motherhood, she becomes terrifying, and is unstoppable. She may be shallow (or not), but bet on it -- she knows what's important in life, and she'll see her children get it. In her highest form, she becomes Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, and is in deep spiritual communion with her bubbe, who knew how to handle a baseball bat.
Also, the JAP has a daddy who loves her. How can this be bad?
The JAP Handbook should probably be consulted. As I recall it was largely accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.250.61 ( talk) 22:07, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I challenge User:Sigmafactor to demonstrate why the picture of Natalie Portman, who definitively meets the definition of Jewish-American princess, should not appear in this article.-- 67.167.159.163 06:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
It it pronounced jay-ay-pee or jap rhymes-with-sap? Also, is Rachel in Friends a JAP? Thanks.
I think that Gretchen Wieners typifies the archetypal JAP, if I've ever seen one.
http://live.quizilla.com/user_images/S/spamscam/1084505613_lsgretchen.jpg
Is there an application for this criteria when the subject is a non-jew, or should I stick with calling them "preps"? Also, is prep+jew=J.A.P. a safe assumption?
Personal experience indicates to me that there is much factual truth regarding what is supposedly a stereotype. So some are offended...... well, the truth CAN hurt.
Obbop
15:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. Stereotypes do exist for a reason. Let's just avoid generalizing. Actually, I'm for expanding this article.
Sevenlies
16:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
This reads like an essay -- sounds like it draws its own conclusions about the origin of this stereotype, and gives examples, but these appear to be original conclusions and there are no sources cited. I'm tagging accordingly. YeahIKnow 15:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
This sentence in the opening paragraph is confusing: "It can be taken and meant as an ethno-religious and/or sexist stereotype or slur."
I haven't personally traveled all over the country (and, to a lesser extent, Canada) but I'm pretty sure this definition of "jap" isn't really a slur. Most of this article agrees with my personal experience that "jap" is a rather lighthearted term that's mostly used among.... well, "japs", if you'll forgive the expression. It's a lot like " army brat"-- any one who has even heard this term knows some one in the army with a kid well enough to not take offense.
The reason I'm putting "jap" in quotes is because it's seriously offensive to call some one a "jap" if they're of Japanese descent. I can remember more than one time when a young Jewish girl used the term, and it totally confused people who had not been enlightened about the whole Jewish Princess thing.
Anyway, that's why I put the tag up. - Haikon 15:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the pop culture section per WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR; it's reproduced here if it's felt that individual points are able to be integrated into the main article. Daniel C/ T + 17:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Characterization in popular culture
This is just another pop culture section similar to the one that was removed previously. Taken out for WP:TRIVIA and WP:OR. Daniel C/ T + 10:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
In the book "Death Of A Jewish American Princess: The True Story of a Victim on Trial" the author, Shirley Frandorf, tells the true story of a man, Restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who claimed he stabbed his wife to death while sleepwalking. According to the defense it was his wife's excesses that contributed to Steinberg's actions of which he was acquitted for. The author Frandorf, a psychiatric social worker, argues how the defenses stereotypical characterization of Elana Steinberg turned the victim into the villain. She further goes on to explain how the outcome brought fear to the women in the tight knit Jewish Community of Phoenix. [1]
WHTZ, of New York, recently played a song called " Jap Rap". They also ran a promotion called "Jap For A Day." The Anti-Defamation League complained about the song and its contest. Afterwards, the program director, Mr. Kingston, said, "if it offended anybody, we apologize." [2]
In 2004, the Style network sent out a casting memo for a show initially called "JAP Squad." The E! executive who sent the memo acknowledged its anti-Semitic overtones, reportedly writing, "I know, it’s an awful name. [But] I need girls who know where to go in NYC for the best deals." [3]
Frank Zappa used "Jewish Princess" as the title and subject of a song on his first independent album Sheik Yerbouti. When the Anti-Defamation League brought an objection to his attention, Zappa refused to apologize saying “They exist, so I wrote a song about them."
In the Mel Brooks movie Spaceballs, Princess Vespa tells Lone Starr she is "daughter of King Rowland, king of the Druids!" Lone Starr responds, "Oh great, a Druish princess." Barf chimes in, "Funny, she doesn't look Druish." The play on words is the similarity between "Jewish" and "Druish" and is a reference to Vespa's spoiled attitude.
The popular sitcom
The Nanny is said to be based on the stereotype of a JAP trying to land a rich man.
Like most articles, this one needs references and citations, and before these are given unreferenceable statements should be left out. Also, I think its important to keep an encyclopedic tone to this article. When I first saw it, it seemed like the author had just come to wikipedia after a seething argument or something. RSimione 15:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
How the heck can "JAP" be anti-Semitic when used by people within the Jewish community? I have a friend who is Jewish and refers to his wife as a "JAP" all the time. And he does so in front of her as well and no one seems offended by the term. In order to be anti-Semitic, there would have to be a sense of hate surrounding use of the word. I have never heard or read anyone, including non-Jews, use the term with a sense of hate behind it. This seems like another case of " Uncle Leo Syndrome". I think that the anti-Semitic label should be removed. Jtpaladin 19:09, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
In many countries JAP is still used to refer to Japanese. It is simply an abbreviation to Japanese. Yet the vitriolic context it has been used with has made the term unacceptable in the USA while in Australia they still use it even though the Japanese still find it offensive. Words do go through their changes. Homo is not acceptable term for a homosexual and Gay is so often used as negative connotation it is beginning to be replaced by new PC terms. I noticed that Negro is still used in academia in Thailand and some other countries. For a time, and for those of us that faced anti-Semitism in the 80s' during the first popularization of JAP, it brings back hurtful memories as are documented in the "original research" of "original research" that is noted. If you would care to note the positive connotations to this term (and site any research to back it up) I would be open and interested. But what you yourself and your friends do while sitting in your home is not research as you so clearly noted. We can argue all day over terms such as “Tar Baby,” “Macaca,” “Jap” or “Porch Monkey” but just because you “take it back” in your own home does not change the social implications of the word. As far as the offensiveness I would agree that overall the N-word carries more offensive weight do to the continued degree of institutionalized racism and the failure to close the many economic and social gaps between black and white world-wide (AS)
When referring to someone as a "JAP" you establish a stereotype and a negative label. It might not be related to race but it is just as bad. Even if you are Jewish, it gives you absolutely no right to label someone a "JAP". You are be lowering your own religion, and making it okay for others who are non-Jewish to label someone a "JAP". Although some beg to differ, I strongly believe that when someone labels another person whether it is the N word or any other degrading term, one can infer that it is okay for him to repeat the same thing. A great example is when you speak in front of a young child, he or she will repeat everything you say, good or bad because they do not understand the meaning of it. The same thing can apply to any degrading label, if someone calls another person a “JAP” one who doesn’t understand how hurtful and inappropriate the term means will repeat it as if it can be used in a regular conversation. Although “JAP” was intended to be a joke, over the years it has developed a negative connotation, and is very frowned upon in society. Nsaps ( talk) 17:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I have a comment about the following sentence:
"The term “JAP” is sometimes used as a self-identifier by non-jewish women of percieved privilege, but this can seem offensive."
Several edits have gone back and forth between putting the word "perceived" into this sentence. It seems to me make the sentence awkward, though I realize some sort of qualifier is needed. I think I'll change it to:
"The term "JAP" has been used by some women in order to be identified as privileged, but this manner can be offensive as it attempts to reinforce the stereotype."
How does that sound? RSimione 13:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I like the change to that sentence!! (AS)
This article is terrible. It is is need of a complete rewrite. It sounds like it was written by the ADL. All the instances given in the article are of a xenophobic nature. In reality 99.999999% of the times the term JAP is used it is not as such. Lighten up. --Jon in California 27 September 2007
Hey Jon, weren't you at the party the other day with Isiah Washington, George Allen, Michael Richards, Don Imus and Mel Gibson? Of course that's why 99.99% of the people in your little southern California world are fluent in non-offensive language. (AS) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.38.158.128 ( talk) 16:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, nice job on calling Jon an anti-Semite. Thats the best way to support your argument.. I understand that in some places this is used as a slur, but being fairly immersed in jewish culture, I know it isnt always or usually used as such. The fact that this article overwhelmingly focuses on its usage as anti-semetic and misogynistic misses a huge proportion of its other uses.
I want to ask if anyone has any problem with the Steven Steinberg case or the author of Death of a Jewish American Princess? I know there has been some confusion over the terms "acquitted." This man did stab his wife. He never denied it. And it was the result of Steinberg stabbing his wife 26 times that lead directly to her death. A major issue for the defense was that his wife was a stereotypical "Jewish-American Princess" which drove him to kill her and thus made him inculpable of his actions for psychological reasons. Acquittal does not mean you did not partake in the action but that you are not guilty of your actions. This case is an important example concerning the negative aspect of the JAP image. Please, if you have issues with the case then take it up in a separate wiki article or state why the author of the book was incorrect in her evaluation of the case. But do not delete this all too relevant case involving the “JAP” termonolgy and image.
Also some on this board have responded negatively to the article saying there are positive uses for the term but have failed to cite relevant records. I'm not even sure if the Space Balls comment was "positive" being that it still was said in a denigrating manner toward a specific group of "women." Please cite any relevant books, research or news items that you have found that mention the positive uses of the term JAP or Jewish American Princess. (AS)
.</ref> In 1982, Phoenix, Ariz., restaurateur Steven Steinberg, who killed his wife by stabbing her 26 times, was acquitted; while he did not deny stabbing her to death, his legal defense portrayed the victim as an overpowering "Jewish American Princess," whose excesses may have provoked her violent end. [4]
1111111 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
155.38.158.128 (
talk)
16:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, tihs is very interesting. I'm Jewish myself and I'm wondering why JAP is redirected to Jewish American Princess. It can ALSO be used as a term to denote Jewish American Prince. Either someone should change the redirection, or rename the article to JAP and explain it could mean Prince or Princess. I've seen both used and been called one (Jewish American Prince) myself as a student at Emory University.
Colleges with high Jewish populations seem to be where this term is used the most. (Emory University is over 30% Jewish). Moreover, I've noticed a heavy criticism of the word, and some user noted that it was due it being used negatively in the 80s. Among the current generation of college students, it is not used as harshly offensive term. I've noticed that most fellow college Jewish students use it more than any other group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.237.183.249 ( talk) 23:02, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The entire article talks about the usage and history of the term, but it doesn't really define it. What exactly IS a JAP? "implies materialistic and selfish tendencies, attributed to a pampered background" could be attributed to just about any affluent person. What specifically about a person would make other people stereotype them as a JAP? I mean, are you saying that any Jewish woman coming from a wealthy family is a JAP or are there other characteristics?
It's nice that all you in-community people have the terms' connotations so heartily internalized as to be having a debate over what celebrities can have the stereotype attributed to them, but this article really doesn't enlighten anyone who isn't ALREADY familiar with the term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RemyK313 ( talk • contribs) 07:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
This article doesn't say anything of substance about the supposed stereotype. Needs re-writing. This article is worthless if it consists of discussions of ancillary items and says nothing about the actual stereotype. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.159.115.36 ( talk) 23:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Please divide this article into the consequences that the use of this horrible racial slur will create for white males who use it, and the convivial friendly sense that it entails when anyone else uses it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.253.227 ( talk) 08:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Not quite sure what you mean by racist. Jews come in all shapes and colors. I could understand that a it might not be intended as pejorative if used by a Jewish woman to refer to another woman but the root-history of the term remains the same. I had a Jewish woman ask if my fiancé was a JAP because of where she grew up- in a high-income town with a significant Jewish population. The first clue that something might be deemed an insult is if it seeks to box a group into a category for the use of stereotyping.Does it? Yes. Does it seek to say something negative about those within that stereotype? Yes. Even if someone might fit the first peramaters of the stereotype themselves ("Young Woman of Jewish Heritage with Wealth") it is still derogatory in the same fashion as any other comment that seeks to devalue a person by putting them in a box. Now a fair question is if it is possible to be derogatory about someone’s privileged life regardless of what it may entail about their character. In other words can being privileged possibly be negative? The insult of the JAP term is not concerned only with one being privileged it is what it also implies (spoiled, cold, winny, gaudy, etc.) And by that implication you degrade a person’s individuality by placing them in a category out of spite, love jest. Thus is derogatory out of anyone’s mouth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.38.30.140 ( talk) 17:21, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
While JAP can certainly be used in a racist way, this is not the point of the expression. What really is underneath it is (seemingly global) phenomenon of spoiled people, in particular women, growing up into brats, "princesses" and the like.
The main point is P, not JA. Further, in JA, I would actually rate the A as more important: The secondary point is not that these women are Jewish, but that they are American. (As opposed to Jewish-Polish/-Russian/-German/... Effectively, perceived images of the "traditional" and "modern" Jewish women are contrasted.)
It could conceivably be argued that the expression would be sexist; however, if it is only applied on the women (or, for all I care, men) who behave like princesses, even that is a misleading claim. As far as it may be pejorative: Pejorative does not necessarily mean unfair. (In contrast, if the phrase is over-extended and undue generalizations are made, then a case can be made against it.)
In all, the phrase should not be compared and contrasted to "nigger" or "gook", but with "valley girl" and "blond". 88.77.140.124 ( talk) 05:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Dows WP have an article on the song? Folks outside of the U.S. probably only know about this term due to Zappa. Danceswithzerglings ( talk) 11:55, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
So what about when Paris Hilton got into trouble for saying "we're JAPpy jews!"? Most west coast Americans born after 1985 had never even heard the term before that incident. -- 98.232.178.38 ( talk) 04:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
in joseph heller's book: "god knows" king david uses and explains this term, calling his first wife a jewish american princess.
i'd also remark, that the occurances in music albums (mentined above) i find difficult to accept as relevant because a song's lyrics can say only so much as in contrast to a book. 80.98.79.37 ( talk) 23:07, 24 June 2017 (UTC).