This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
Some editors argued for omitting "unnecessary" facts in the lede (and to have those in the article text). Is there any opposition to omitting "financier" is the lede? At least a hint in the lede that according to sources this is an image that Epstein paid to be promoted about himself?
According to latest sources it was mainly Epstein himself who promoted his image as 'billionaire financier' and he paid several journalists to paint this image what wouldn't be necessary if he was a real billionaire financier. Latest filings of his lawyers already showed that he is definitively not a 'billionaire'. Latest sources also make it very questionable whether Epstein's was a 'financier'. The sources document that his (primary) target seemed to be to finance 'himself' and his life-style and that he invested money (of unknown source) mainly in the general market - like everybody would do to "store" your money if you don't want to pile cash in your drawer ('Financier' would be a person whose (primary) occupation is either facilitating or directly providing investments to companies and businesses.).-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 08:53, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
No doubt he is still labeled with the buzz-word ‘financier’ in various sources, maybe partly even caused by the fact he is labelled ‘financier’ in the lede in Wikipedia. But those sources report that it is now known that his main commercial activity was to get tax and financial advisory mandates from wealthy individuals and his main business model was to get advisory fee income for that. His focus was reportedly on tax advisory because there you can get high short-term financial advantages for wealth clients if you do it aggressively what he reportedly did (moving money offshore and so on). If he acted predominantly as a real ‘financier’ his main activities would be more the opposite, having own wealth or a fund and wanting to invest his money in his client’s companies or assets. So in realty he mainly believed in tax advantages for wealthy clients and the fees he would get from aggressive (tax) strategies and not in investing in his clients like a financier would do. Should Wikipedia go for the buzz word’s like ‘financier’ still used in sources and their headings (and that Epstein paid the press to be report like this) or should Wikipedia reflect the content of the new reports now revealing that his main focus was to get (tax) consultancy fees (what he always tried to hide but is now revealed, according to sources) ? .-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 07:58, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I am not contradicting that there more than 10 million of google entries when you search for "epstein financier". There are also more than 10 million of google entries when you search for "epstein billionaire" and that won't change for a long time even though Epstein just admitted he is no billionaire. I will not change the lede as there are some editors correctly saying that "financier" is still what most of the press has written about Epstein (over decades). But that doesn't change the fact that (well researched) sources increasingly show that this "financier" image as his predominant occupation is more and more inconsistent with new facts that are continuously revealed, against what Epstein reportedly paid journalists to write about. The following article by a Bloomberg editor seems to be better researched than many daily reporting [3].-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 19:13, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
One additional angle to fact-check "Financier": If Epstein was primarily the wealthy "Financier" for decades there would by now be many companies and projects having been financed by him. According to sources this is not the case which means there is "silence" about the giving and receiving side of Epstein's alleged "Financier" activities (many companies and projects like Google, Facebook, Apple got funds from billionaire financiers and this is generally widely covered; clearly only Epstein is missing on any coverage about billionaires having financed companies which is awkward if "Financier" is said to be Epstein's predominant occupation, unlike many other billionaire financiers who have other main occupations). As sources increasingly start to cast doubt with regards to his self-ascribed "Fiancier" as main occupation, Wikipedia should soon be inclined to mention those doubts as long as Wikipedia descibes him as "Financier", maybe not today, but soon.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 09:58, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
See here. He was interested in transhumanism and eugenics and wanted to start a “baby ranch” where scores of women would be inseminated with his sperm. Why these types of guys always think THEIR OWN DNA is somehow superior and most worth being passed on, I’ll never know. 97.116.77.170 ( talk) 23:10, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
In the section about the 2006 NPA is this quote:
"Age of consent in Florida and St. Thomas is 18 but in many other states it is lower, e.g. 17 in New York, 14 in New Mexico. Epstein's plea of procuring prostitution with an anonymous older minor thereby reduced the degree of crime classification for registration as a sex offender and minimized the perceived severity of the crime in the eyes of the public. In February 2011 the NY Post quotes Epstein: “I’m not a sexual ‘predator’, I’m an ‘offender’. It’s the difference between a murderer and a person who steals a bagel.” Formally committing the U.S. government to agree to call a minor a prostitute was also controversial."
but the age of consent in New Mexico is also 17. This is a very weird place to get such an easily verifiable fact wrong, especially with the apologetics that follow it. I'm revising that section.
MykalGroll ( talk) 16:35, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
The NPA section currently reads more like a blog and is in need of revision. While the numerous outgoing links inserted by editors may serve to point a reader to a source for more information, it is not aligned with how Wikipedia entries are written. The content gets distilled by the editor(s) with a numerical citation to the source, not a hot link to a web address in article. The repetition of five outgoing hot links to articles in the NPA section disrupts the flow and forces the reader to do the distilling. I am sure that there is relevant information linked in the section but wanted to address this issue and the logic behind it before making any changes to the page. Kind Regards Cedar777 ( talk) 03:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
There are three serious problems with this section:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by McSchwangstasis ( talk • contribs) 14:01, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add:
"A 2019 pending lawsuit in New York, alleged that Epstein used "MC2 Model Management", a the international modeling agency, to recruit girls as young as 13 from Europe, Ecuador and Brazil. According to the sworn statement of a former agency bookkeeper in her 2010 deposition in the civil case, Epstein paid for their visas and put them in an apartment he owned on 66th Street in Manhattan." Source:
At one point he had a $1 million investment in ″MC2 Model Management″. Source:
Not done appears to be already covered in Jeffrey_Epstein#Residences.
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Replace Steans with Stearns 209.122.211.116 ( talk) 21:44, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He died of a suicide in Manhattan according to ABC 7 https://abc7news.com/sources-jeffrey-epstein-dies-by-suicide-in-manhattan-jail/5457853/ 71.241.217.188 ( talk) 13:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
It says suicided by the Clinton's under death, please be sure to remove this and other vandalism Baboo222 ( talk) 17:17, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under the cause of death in the Infobox, remove “(Clinton's suicided him).” This is unsourced and a pizzagate-tier conspiracy theory about the Vlintons. It has no place on Wikipedia. 2604:6000:1503:8A65:D17C:A319:6F68:3831 ( talk) 17:15, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add to the line in Death section: After that incident, he was placed on suicide watch, but he was not on suicide watch at the time of his death.[211] [1] Mikethewhistle-original ( talk) 17:32, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Sources
|
---|
|
I just deleted a bunch of conspiracy theories from the article and the lead, including at least one that accused certain people of murdering Epstein. Please read WP:BLP; we absolutely can't pass along this kind of rumor no matter who says it. User:MarvellingLiked, thank you for trying to add to the article, but please be more careful to stay within Wikipedia guidelines. -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC) Oops, it wasn't MarvellingLiked who originally added it; it was User:Soibangla. You know better than that. -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
On 10 August 2019 at about 6:30 a.m. Epstein was “found unresponsive in his cell in the Special Housing Unit” at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Fire officials received a call at 6:39 a.m. that Epstein was in cardiac arrest. MCC staff tried to revive him. The New York Post reported that a gurney carrying a man who looked like Epstein was wheeled out of the MCC. At around 7:30 a.m. the photos showed EMTs using a breathing apparatus in an attempt to revive Epstein as he was wheeled out of the MCC into the Presbyterian-Lower Manhattan Hospital. Later he was pronounced dead at the hospital. Epstein’s death came less than a day after a court unsealed documents in a civil suit.
Attorney General William Barr said he was "appalled" and that Epstein’s death "raises serious questions that must be answered". Barr stated the FBI and the DOJ’s inspector general were investigating the circumstances of his death. Epsteins apparent suicide in federal custody in New York prompted outrage among lawyers seeking justice for victims. Eva Ford, the mother one victim, said: "How does someone who is this high profile commit suicide? They had to have cameras on him! Someone must have been paid to look the other way". Jack Scarola, a lawyer who representeds several victims stated: ″Epstein once again cheated his victims out of an opportunity for justice. While I’m sure none of them regret his death, all of them regret the information that died with him. The one expectation is that Epstein’s death not derail the investigation into others who participated in his criminal activities. There are named and unnamed co-conspirators who still need to be brought to justice″.
Sorces:
The description of Epstein's relationship with Clinton is written in an ambiguous way. It says:
The statement was made in 2019; the trips were made from 2001 to 2003. I can't help but wonder if this text was intentionally written to be ambiguous. Can someone please fix this? 72.140.133.233 ( talk) 13:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
What do you think, MelanieN?
The circumstances of his death raised conspiracy speculation on social media, particularly relating to former president Bill Clinton and then-president Donald Trump..[185] Clinton had worked with Epstein on matters relating to the Clinton Foundation in the early 2000s, flying on Epstein's jet 26 times.[186][187] Trump had a personal friendship with Epstein dating back at least fifteen years through 2002.[188] Hours after Epstein's death, President Trump joined the conspiracy speculation when he retweeted a conspiracy theory that Clinton may have been involved in Epstein's death, including the hashtag #ClintonBodyCount.[189]
soibangla ( talk) 00:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add:
Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI Director James Comey and an assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, is a prosecutor in the 2019 criminal case against Epstein.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/06/us/jeffrey-epstein-arrest-sex-trafficking-indictment/index.html 87.170.197.207 ( talk) 14:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The date of death in the actual article says April 10th and then speaks about his suicide attempt 3 weeks prior in July. He died August 10th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.31.105.143 ( talk) 19:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change his month of death (near the bottom of the article) from April to August 77.125.2.131 ( talk) 19:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
please add to "Personal life":
In 2010, just a few months after after Epstein completed his 13 months detention in Palm Beach, he, with the help of the prominent New York publicist Peggy Siegal, hosted at his home in Manhattan a “Break the Fast” after Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year and day of atonement — hundred friends and celebrities came, some brought their children. A few months later, on 2 December 2010, Epstein hosted a party for his friend, Prince Andrew, Duke of York, with several celebrities showing up.
Sources:
Not doneThe only original source for the Yom Kippur breakfast is the daily beast report. That article was making the point that he was popular because many people considered him brilliant and those that knew him were unaware of his pedophilia. You might want to reconsider rewording your requested changes to be more in line with the source. -- Nowa ( talk) 19:47, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Is this worth mentioning?: "Jeffrey Epstein won the Oklahoma Powerball lottery, July 2, 2008" - Published August 10, 2019
74.101.202.221 ( talk) 11:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
'Paris' is listed under Residence. Is this Paris, France, Paris, Texas or Paris, Maine? Would an editor in the know please refine this location. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.59.43 ( talk) 15:54, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
We should add this to the conspiracy section. AHC300 ( talk) 22:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to have a complete list of Epstein-related litigation with proper citations to the actual cases (not just articles about them).
I just ran a search on PACER Case Locator, and Google Scholar, as well as adding cross-references I found in other documents. I excluded cases involving Jeffrey A. / M. Epstein, (this one is E.), bankruptcy cases, cases about (or represented by) a Jeffrey Epstein who is a lawyer, and one frivolous case mentioning him offhand.
I was able to find substantiation of the following cases (listed in ~chronological order of filing):
Extensive list
|
---|
|
The article mentions, but I was unable to find, the following:
For the latter two, I did a PCL search for Maria Farmer and Jennifer Araoz. Neither is listed on any federal cases (at least not by that name).
I've listed most decisions I could find by formal cite (specific date, ECF #, slip op., published reporter cite, etc). For cases that just have case # & court, I didn't find a decision. (I haven't looked exhaustively, though.) For all decisions listed, though, I verified that they are about this Epstein. The ones that don't have him in the case name are generally about defamation, seal, or the CVRA.
A. Could someone please substantiate the last 2 - provide case #s & courts (and case # for Edwards v Epstein)?
B. Could someone please annotate the list above, and check the various cases involving people not named in the article (e.g. corporations, Orseck, Molyneux, etc - especially the 2006 & earlier cases) to see
Thanks! - Sai ¿? ✍ 12:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
How does his death affect the open civil suits? do they just go away? 76.84.112.61 ( talk) 16:57, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the Miami Herald articles on Epstein need a better place in this article. This is what got the ball rolling. The Miami Herald published articles on the plea deal. Then Senator Ben Sasse brought up the issue at the confirmation hearing of William Barr. Not too long after that the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York had Epstein arrested as he landed. It is still several months involved, but since Epstein was away in France this whole set of events may have been delayed because of lots of factors. As can be seen from this article [4] Sasse is still a driving force behind the push to investogate Epstein. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
These are two lesser named possible accomplices of Epstein. In part because they have been out of office a while, in part because they are not quite as notable as Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, and maybe in part because of complex bias/avoid bias meaning some want to avoid making a long list of accomplices of Epstein when it seems too politically one sided. It also may be that these two were not heavily named until the document dump a day before Epstein died. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
filed by Bradley Edwards, Trump banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago.
That sounds awfully persuasive, doesn't it? After all, if it's in a court document, that means it's an official fact, right?
Nope.
The Edwards filing actually said "I learned through a source that Trump banned Epstein from his Maralago Club," which is merely hearsay, and Edwards later conceded "I've heard the rumor that Epstein was kicked out of there for allegedly trying to pick up somebody's daughter, something like that, but I think I did chase that down as far as I could and never was able to confirm it."
Edwards is known to have spoken to Trump. So, who might have the biggest motive to drop a rumor that Trump distanced himself from Epstein? soibangla ( talk) 21:59, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
In this edit I am opting for the term American. I think that his being Jewish is irrelevant. Bus stop ( talk) 21:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
it isnt more irrelevant than him being american. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.237.134.123 ( talk) 11:07, 20 July 2019 (UTC) 18:52, 2 August 2019 (UTC)~~ If you are jewish trying to scrub negative things that jewish people have done then I'm invoking "conflict of interest" thing at the top of the page (only guessing this because I've seen it a handful of times already on here), that particular word is too personal in the context for you to be removing it unbiased/critically. And a bit of history for you; the jewish people were a close-knit group for long enough that they developed their own genetic traits and cultures, and therefor are both a race and a religion. 99.18.204.223 ( talk) 18:51, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Artbenis ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This user has been prolifically making changes without providing any sources. It's difficult to keep up with them and try to verify the changes. I am hoping they will come here and discuss the style of their edits and the need for reliable sources, avoiding WP:BLP violations, avoiding WP:SYNTHESIS and WP:OR, etc. Mostly Artbenis needs to be providing sources for statements that aren't included in the existing sources. Just for example this edit did not seem to be reflected in the listed source and would be a BLP violation. Unfortunately this article has attracted some very active and apparently inexperienced editors while being largely left unreviewed by our more experienced editors. —DIYeditor ( talk) 11:51, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Or for example this edit - are the scare quotes on "helping" from the police report or is this yet another BLP violation? —DIYeditor ( talk) 12:20, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm done reverting, I hope this will attract some other eyes. I assume this is a good faith editor who just doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. —DIYeditor ( talk) 12:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
A reading of the coverage of Epstein over the last two months has convinced me that not everyone believes Epstein's claim that he only had clients worth more than $1 billion. I wonder if some of this skepticism towards this claim should be reflected in how we word it. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I wanted to note here that I nominated Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories for deletion, and shortly thereafter Death of Jeffrey Epstein was created, which I have also nominated for deletion. We now have three articles, including this one, overlapping on the topic of the death of Jeffrey Epstein. The conspiracy theory article has, of course, become a dumping ground for the various rumors that Clinton flew on the "Lolita Express" and Trump and Epstein took turns raping a thirteen-year-old girl. bd2412 T 23:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For an update to the second charges section I was going to submit a link regarding a raid that the FBI had conducted on Epstein's island. link: https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-raided-criminal-financier-jeffrey-epsteins-private-island-report-2019-8 Cpb2147 ( talk) 04:49, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Right now the default is to archive this page after 30 days. IMO, due to his death the page has become so heavily edited that 30 days is unrealistic. Right now there are 57 titles in the contents listing. Some of the older threads have attracted recent edits this week, but many are weeks old. Anybody think we should reduce the archive default to something more normal, like a week or 10 days? -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
The bot just archived 16 discussions amounting to 60,000 bytes, so I feel better now. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The claim of suicide is not proven and is just a police opinion. How a man who is on suicide watch with 24 hr camera on and manually checked by guards every 15 min commits suicide is near impossible. The death should be listed as unknown until proven otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 16:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Rumors from cops is not source. No autopsy has been preformed. No cause of death from a medical professional has been released. No death certificate has been issued. The only truth is he was found in a jail cell dead hung. Wikipedia is about truth not the spreader of cop rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 17:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
If we are going to accept cop rumor as fact. Then the claim of drunk guys that see aliens walking around after an all night drunk are also fact according to this new Wikipedia standard.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk • contribs)
He was no longer on suicide watch. Attorney General Barr has ordered an investigation into how this happened. -- MelanieN ( talk) 17:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Correct especially because three weeks ago he was found with damage to his neck he said that was caused by another person. The reason he was in the "special unit" at the time of his death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 18:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
On Friday August 9,2019 over 2,000 documents were released naming many rich and powerful people connected to Jeffery Epstein including Prince Andrew of Great Britain. Less than 24 hours later he is found dead in his cell on Saturday morning August 10,2019. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 14:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Two Jail guards paid to watch Jeffery were found to both had been asleep for at least three hours and falsified official police logs claiming they checked on him while they were asleep. According to a breaking news story from the New York times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 10:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
According to the Washington post his neck was snapped a clear indication he was murdered. It is not possible for a person to snap their neck unless the were hung from a great height like a gallows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 05:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change: "In 2015, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that Epstein invested in a startup headed by former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak."
to: "In 2015, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that Epstein invested in a startup called Reporty Homeland Security (now Carbyne) headed by former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak." 87.170.195.115 ( talk) 16:47, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
{{u|
waddie96}} {
talk}
09:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Since it seems to fit this section:
please change "Both Clinton[155] and Donald Trump[156] claimed that they never visited Epstein's island."
to "Both Clinton[155] and Donald Trump[156] claimed that they never visited Epstein's island. In 2016 Barak was caught on camera entering Epstein's Manhattan mansion with his face covered and closely followed by four young women, despite his claims he has 'never met Epstein in the company of women or young girls.'"
{{u|
waddie96}} {
talk}
09:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[6] via HN [7]. Info leak from the hospital or jail I guess, has some unconfirmed medical details, no idea what to make of it. Contains usual 4chan trolling, hold nose before reading. 67.164.113.165 ( talk) 03:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Chris Walker: 4chan User Posted About Epstein Death — 38 Minutes Before It Was Public Knowledge, Hill Reporter, 13 August 2019 -- 93.211.219.161 ( talk) 17:33, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
NY Post "Why was Jeffrey Epstein’s death on 4chan before it became public?" [12] 173.228.123.207 ( talk) 20:20, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
BuzzFeed News: Jeffrey Epstein's Death Was On 4Chan Before Officials Announced It — And Authorities Had To Look Into It, August 13, 2019 -- 93.211.220.161 ( talk) 03:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Trump said of Epstein in 2002: "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."[68]
Vapid, out of context left-wing drivel. This should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.55.169 ( talk) 03:17, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
“I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them on the younger side. Jeffrey enjoys his social life.” – Donald J. Trump in 2002
FactChecker429 (
talk)
03:23, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Cramyourspam has been warned for their obvious trolling. Do not engage with trolls. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Clinton being his friend is farm more important than Trump, Trump at the time wasn't a politician, Clinton was. Any rich person is going to have friends with a lot of people. Also if you're leaving it for political reasons, wasn't Trump a democrat at the time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:1E02:C05D:B168:B66D:9F96:3439 ( talk) 06:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Cramyourspam wasn't trolling. He was trying to make a point. An accurate point that is usually only denied by the accused editors. Wikipedia, or rather Wikimedia, no longer tries to hide the political bias of it's "well respected" editors, or fact that only one political ideology is consistently uplifted and protected. The examples of it are everywhere. Not trying to get involved in the actual "debate" there, just clarifying what Cramyourspam was doing, since it seems his comments were misunderstood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.212.30 ( talk) 14:34, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Will leave this here for future edit request:
According to a report by MSNBC from Aug. 15. 2019, Epstein's corpse was claimed by an unidentified "associate" from the New York medical examiner's office. [13]
A lawyer working at the MCC reports that Epstein was frequently given access to one of two meeting rooms available for inmates of the Special Housing Unit, so much that other lawyers had grown frustrated with Epstein's daily presence there. He was also once visited by a young woman without the company of his main lawyer.
The lawyer reporting his observation stated: “I think she was there just to babysit him, and keep him out of his cell, and just keep him company for eight hours a day,” he added. “Which is not supposed to be the way it works.”
"Prison officials did not respond to Forbes’ calls about Epstein’s apparently frequent access to the meeting room." [14]
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 20:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The first sentence of the Epstein's page states that he was... "was an American financier and convicted sex offender.", but due the nature of his hideous crimes, I believe he should be first identified as a sex offender. The first sentence should read: "was a convicted sex offender and American financier." Larryfargus ( talk) 06:16, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change >>and instead urged them to have "patience".[82][83]<<
to >>and instead urged them to have "patience".[82][83]
In a July 2019 press conference regarding the Epstein case Acosta stated that "individuals from main justice were involved fairly early on and were certainly aware of it" and "that decisions were appealed again and again to main justice". He also provided the press with public documents that support his account.<<
Source: DEFENDING PLEA DEAL: Acosta SPEAKS on Jeffrey Epstein History
A transcript of that part is here: [15]
I have no idea how to find the public documents Acosta refers to as I am not familiar with US bureaucracy. Can someone help with this?
Seems worth mentioning that Trump, as per this article, https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/456979-trump-retweets-post-promoting-conspiracy-theory-about-jeffrey has retweeted conspiracy theories accusing the Clintons of involvement in Epstein's death (particularly given that Barr is quoted in the article in response to the apparent suicide). 206.45.7.58
The edit summary "removing this rumor for heavens sake. The Clintons are living persons after all; we can't pass along this kind of accusation no matter who says it." made by /info/en/?search=User:MelanieN is an absurd and indefensible reason not to mention such an important claim in regard to this event. Trump is directly implicated in the Epstein case, his Attorney General (who is investigating the death) has conflicts of interest related to it, and his former Secretary of Labor was responsible for the illegal deal that helped him escape justice in the past. Why would this accusation not be notable, let alone when it is made by the President himself? For comparison, nearly the entirety of Seth Rich's Wikipedia article is devoted to the allegations against the Clintons surrounding his death. Why should this article be any different? Accusations are made against living persons all the time and must be accurately reflected as such on Wikipedia. Documenting that an accusation was made does not mean Wikipedia is endorsing that accusation.( talk) 00:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
I have to agree, it's standard procedure to include high profile accusations and suspicions. That said, since it's Trump, chances are they wont be included. As wiki continues to become more and more politically motivated, you'll see more inconsistencies like this. The facts are documented elsewhere though, and relying on wiki for accuracy is a bad idea anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.212.30 ( talk) 14:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Can someone tell me how would a registered sex offender be qualified as a "philantropist" (i.e. love for humanity)? Any logic, common sense to this? almoravid ( talk) 22:10, 8 July 2019 (UTC
So what? Your picking of a 2015 source calling Epstein a "philantropist" doesn't contradict anything what is discussed above but it obviously ignores this discussion. Why do you then prefer editwarring-like behavior to change the article space after ignoring this discussion?
Are you really so hooked up to Epstein’s former image that (according to sources) Epstein paid for, to journalists, to PR agencies? Is it Wikipedia's goal to protect and resurrect “bought” images? How do you explain that reasonable reports don't call Epstein philantropist anymore in contrast to your personal preference?
As you don’t seem to like explaining yourself in an understandable manner it can only be assumed you think changing the heading from “Gifts” (as some sources called it) again to “Philantropist” (as other sources called it) would better protect Epstein’s reputation. You seem to ignore that Epstein’s reputation and the knowledge about him have already significantly changed, so any missions to restore Epstein's image pre-revelation are misguided, also your editwarring style will not help. Why do you ignore that your term “philanthropist” would include that Epstein has “love for humanity” (contradiction to what he reportedly does to other humans?) And, did you ever think about what it would mean for the families of all these hundreds of underage girls to read that Wikipedia would still attribute to this guy “love for humanity” even if there are more neutral words available for the headings?-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 17:45, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
"[d]on't ask me if all sources want to explicitly explain that they may have been deceived by Epstein and his circles for decades, or if all sources now will do an official 'status' update on how Epstein is to be named."Until they update us to the new understanding that he is not a philanthropist, he remains a philanthropist. One does not lose the status of philanthropist based on having sex with underage girls. Here you say "Please name the multiple reliable sources". (And here you say "added 'allegedly' as Epsteins foundation doesn't disclose".) The sources are found at Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation. It is not merely alleged that the Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation funds science research and education. When an assertion is supported by sources there is no need to call that assertion an allegation. The sources in the Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation article support that he gave millions of dollars to Harvard University. Furthermore a philanthropic gift does not become an alleged philanthropic gift if a foundation
"doesn't disclose". You are coining your own use for the word "alleged". This source (for instance) writes "Elusive financier Jeffrey E. Epstein donated $30 million this year to Harvard for the founding of a mathematical biology and evolutionary dynamics program." Despite the fact that this source was written in 2003 there is no reason or logic for him to now be an "alleged" philanthropist. You have not produced a source supportive of your characterization that he is an "alleged" philanthropist yet you have twice added "alleged" to the article. Bus stop ( talk) 19:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Exactly why would you decline to name the section about donations "Donations" ?-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 20:30, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
"Also, you weren’t sure if 'high amount donations' still qualify as 'donations'."There are no qualifications that something must meet in order to be considered a donation. A ten billion dollar donation is certainly possible, based on it being grammatically correct. He is not accused of for instance giving counterfeit currency to Harvard departments of math and biology. You are arguing that we should knock him down a notch in an area unrelated to the crimes he is accused of. Bus stop ( talk) 12:52, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
It is not about me. Obviously, most of the reasonable sources don't call Epstein a “philanthropist" anymore after what has been revealed about him. And even if you wouldn't know the meaning of widespread Greek words like "phil", "phob", "anthropo" you could still google it if you wanted to understand why sources stopped calling Epstein a “philanthropist". Also, "Donations" is not an "insult" or a "knocking down" of the donor as you seem to imply, it is just a neutral word for the activity of donating money, and most sources even use this word, also for Epstein's donations, so it would be no problem to use it for the heading of his donations. Also, that Epstein’s donations were "unrelated" to his (criminal) life is only a private theory of yours as according to what sources revealed Epstein's donations were not only very related to his (hidden) criminal life and life-style, it was for him an important lever to distract from his criminal activities.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 23:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
"most of the reasonable sources don't call Epstein a 'philanthropist' anymore". Nor does the article call him a philanthropist. The article has within it the section heading of "Philanthropy". You are objecting to a section heading. Large sums of money moving from wealthy individuals to good causes is called philanthropy. It is a section heading that you are objecting to. I don't think terms such as "donations" or "gifts" are as appropriate for the section heading under discussion as the term "philanthropy". If one gives a used car to a charitable organization it could appropriately be called a donation. But what the subject of this article has given falls into the more rarified category of philanthropy. We should not knock what he has gifted down a notch by using the section heading appropriate to more common gifts of little more than a few thousand dollars. At least in a few cases he has given millions of dollars. And the recipients of such largess were such sterling institutions as Harvard, and for causes as worthwhile as math and science. Bus stop ( talk) 01:50, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the "See Also" section in this article strikes me as extraneous, and I really think should be done away with in the name of parsimony. Though the topics undoubtedly bear some relationship to the article, I am not sure that broad discussions of this sort are really helpful. I won't make any changes until I see if there's something approaching consensus. Cheers. Dumuzid ( talk) 00:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change: "Epstein taught calculus and physics at the Dalton School in Manhattan from 1974 to 1976."
to
Despite being a college drop-out, Epstein was hired in 1973 by Donald Barr, the headmaster at Manhattan’s private Dalton School (1964–74), as a calculus and physics teacher. There Epstein taught from 1974 to 1976. Donald Barr worked during World War II for the OSS (forerunner of the CIA), and is the father of current United States Attorney General William Barr, who is currently overseeing Epstein’s prosecution. The hire was unusual for a number of reasons: Epstein had not earned a college degree, the other odd circumstance was that he was only 20 years of age.
Sources (please, choose):
Done per consensus. I also updated per current events and info from sources.
According to www.ageofconsent.net in New Mexico a partner's age of consent can be as low as 14 for a person of age 18: "New Mexico statutory rape law is violated when a person over age 18 has consensual sexual intercourse with an individual under age 17 who is at least 4 years younger. "
I have added "adult" into the relevant sentence for more clarity, as it applies to Epstein (even though age 18 is an adult). Artbenis ( talk) 12:32, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
See [20] [21]. According to the latter article, some “prominent Republicans” think Jeffrey Epstein may have been a Mossad agent, like his ex-girlfriend’s father Robert Maxwell was said to be. 97.116.77.170 ( talk) 13:23, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Epstein made a previous attempt about a month ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.7.73 ( talk) 14:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Cause of Death (specific injury or disease leading to death) is normally obvious and easy to determine; Manner/Mode of Death (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, or undetermined) is what is difficult to determine. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 20:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
To add to the article: what did Epstein use to hang himself? 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 15:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Reported in the New York Post: "Jeffrey Epstein was found hanging in his lower Manhattan jail cell with a bedsheet wrapped around his neck and secured to the top of a bunk." 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 09:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
It's not vandalism. Investigations into whether this was another 'Arkancide' [23] are getting a lot of attention right now. We should report on all points of view in the public discourse. 97.68.156.197 ( talk) 20:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
His neck was snapped by persons unknown while his guards were sleeping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 05:53, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the intro paragraph. It is incredinly disrespectful of you to write "he is best known for being a sex trafficker" before even writing the stuff before the MOST RECENT DEVELOPMENT. Just because a mans life has a mistake does not mean that defined his entire life, in fact, it only RECENTLY even became evident. How about instead of being a biased, one sided media outlet like Fox news, you actually give the facts. Thats what you are designed for. Leave out your stupid opinion, and I say stupid, because you may not think it is, but I do, which means at least 1 other human, thinks what you wrote is stupid, disrespectful, and clearly bad writing. How about instead of acting like Cosmo, you give the facts, like you were designed to. The fact was that he only recently, so recently that I had no idea who this man even was, until today, accused, note, accused, as a sex trafficker, and thats what you lead with in your article. Disgusting. How would you like it if someone wrote an official page about you and lead in the intro with those secrets you dont tell anyone, those things that mortify you, your mistakes? Does that seem fair? Like an accurate depiction of you? No. It isn't. So be fair, put your opinon of the man aside, and properly write this article. Geez. 2601:191:8580:35DD:3C25:8BB:734C:B10D ( talk) 21:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
He was convicted as a sex offender in 2008. That is not recent. Only the sex trafficking charges are newer. Cedar777 ( talk) 21:51, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This article dates back to August 2006, so just after Epstein was first charged. He is there said to be accused of soliciting "underaged prostitues". Bill Clinton is one of his associates mentioned in that very first iteration of the article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:11, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "Epstein was a multimillionaire who, until his conviction for sex crimes in 2008, was well connected with the financial, political, and cultural elites of society."
to "Epstein was a multimillionaire who, even after his conviction for sex crimes in 2008, was well connected with the financial, political, and cultural elites of society."
Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-case-grows-more-grotesque - see first paragraph
I think this needs to be changed because the current version significantly downplays his role and status in elite circles even after his conviction. I mean, there even was a welcome party after he got released from jail, for crying out loud:
Source: Epstein Was a Sex Offender. The Powerful Welcomed Him Anyway.
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 04:32, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
"until his conviction for sex crimes in 2008"part at all if his crimes had no effect on his influence among the cultural elites. – Anne drew 14:19, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
<ins>
and <del>
per
WP:TPG.
—DIYeditor (
talk)
19:39, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change the “under 18 girl for prostitution” That is a child and a child is not a prostitute they are a victim being abused and taken advantage of by adults. She can not give consent so can not give sex for money. 2601:184:4180:6A14:DE7:5DEA:D80:4778 ( talk) 15:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change >>The national president of the Council of Prison Locals C-33, E. O. Young, stated that prisons "can't ever stop anyone who is persistent on killing themselves".[232]<<
to >>The national president of the Council of Prison Locals C-33, E. O. Young, stated that prisons "can't ever stop anyone who is persistent on killing themselves".[232] However, as a former inmate of the MCC stated, it is impossible to hang one self in their prison cells as there are no means to do so.<<
Source: Former MCC inmate: There’s ‘no way’ Jeffrey Epstein killed himself
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 14:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
{{not done}} Interesting article, but the former inmate is not an authoritative source, nor does the article in it's own voice say that suicide was not possible.--
Nowa (
talk)
15:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 23:30, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Cause of death is from a snapped neck according to the Washington post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
According to the New York post many inmates heard screaming coming from his cell early Saturday morning. With the broken neck and the screaming coming from his cell more than enough evidence that he was murdered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Explain this? If they wanted to keep him alive for trial why would they put him in a cell with a guy accused of quadruple murder? Could not find a safe cell mate that was not accuse of murder? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Just released from the Washington Post. His type of broken hyoid neck break is seen in only 16 out of 264 suicides or 6 % of the cases. In the other 248 cases it was murder or 94% of the time. By this report its 94% certain he was murdered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 12:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
The article should list the bones broken in Epstein's neck. 71.82.73.37 ( talk) 22:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 7 |
Some editors argued for omitting "unnecessary" facts in the lede (and to have those in the article text). Is there any opposition to omitting "financier" is the lede? At least a hint in the lede that according to sources this is an image that Epstein paid to be promoted about himself?
According to latest sources it was mainly Epstein himself who promoted his image as 'billionaire financier' and he paid several journalists to paint this image what wouldn't be necessary if he was a real billionaire financier. Latest filings of his lawyers already showed that he is definitively not a 'billionaire'. Latest sources also make it very questionable whether Epstein's was a 'financier'. The sources document that his (primary) target seemed to be to finance 'himself' and his life-style and that he invested money (of unknown source) mainly in the general market - like everybody would do to "store" your money if you don't want to pile cash in your drawer ('Financier' would be a person whose (primary) occupation is either facilitating or directly providing investments to companies and businesses.).-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 08:53, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
No doubt he is still labeled with the buzz-word ‘financier’ in various sources, maybe partly even caused by the fact he is labelled ‘financier’ in the lede in Wikipedia. But those sources report that it is now known that his main commercial activity was to get tax and financial advisory mandates from wealthy individuals and his main business model was to get advisory fee income for that. His focus was reportedly on tax advisory because there you can get high short-term financial advantages for wealth clients if you do it aggressively what he reportedly did (moving money offshore and so on). If he acted predominantly as a real ‘financier’ his main activities would be more the opposite, having own wealth or a fund and wanting to invest his money in his client’s companies or assets. So in realty he mainly believed in tax advantages for wealthy clients and the fees he would get from aggressive (tax) strategies and not in investing in his clients like a financier would do. Should Wikipedia go for the buzz word’s like ‘financier’ still used in sources and their headings (and that Epstein paid the press to be report like this) or should Wikipedia reflect the content of the new reports now revealing that his main focus was to get (tax) consultancy fees (what he always tried to hide but is now revealed, according to sources) ? .-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 07:58, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I am not contradicting that there more than 10 million of google entries when you search for "epstein financier". There are also more than 10 million of google entries when you search for "epstein billionaire" and that won't change for a long time even though Epstein just admitted he is no billionaire. I will not change the lede as there are some editors correctly saying that "financier" is still what most of the press has written about Epstein (over decades). But that doesn't change the fact that (well researched) sources increasingly show that this "financier" image as his predominant occupation is more and more inconsistent with new facts that are continuously revealed, against what Epstein reportedly paid journalists to write about. The following article by a Bloomberg editor seems to be better researched than many daily reporting [3].-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 19:13, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
One additional angle to fact-check "Financier": If Epstein was primarily the wealthy "Financier" for decades there would by now be many companies and projects having been financed by him. According to sources this is not the case which means there is "silence" about the giving and receiving side of Epstein's alleged "Financier" activities (many companies and projects like Google, Facebook, Apple got funds from billionaire financiers and this is generally widely covered; clearly only Epstein is missing on any coverage about billionaires having financed companies which is awkward if "Financier" is said to be Epstein's predominant occupation, unlike many other billionaire financiers who have other main occupations). As sources increasingly start to cast doubt with regards to his self-ascribed "Fiancier" as main occupation, Wikipedia should soon be inclined to mention those doubts as long as Wikipedia descibes him as "Financier", maybe not today, but soon.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 09:58, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
See here. He was interested in transhumanism and eugenics and wanted to start a “baby ranch” where scores of women would be inseminated with his sperm. Why these types of guys always think THEIR OWN DNA is somehow superior and most worth being passed on, I’ll never know. 97.116.77.170 ( talk) 23:10, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
In the section about the 2006 NPA is this quote:
"Age of consent in Florida and St. Thomas is 18 but in many other states it is lower, e.g. 17 in New York, 14 in New Mexico. Epstein's plea of procuring prostitution with an anonymous older minor thereby reduced the degree of crime classification for registration as a sex offender and minimized the perceived severity of the crime in the eyes of the public. In February 2011 the NY Post quotes Epstein: “I’m not a sexual ‘predator’, I’m an ‘offender’. It’s the difference between a murderer and a person who steals a bagel.” Formally committing the U.S. government to agree to call a minor a prostitute was also controversial."
but the age of consent in New Mexico is also 17. This is a very weird place to get such an easily verifiable fact wrong, especially with the apologetics that follow it. I'm revising that section.
MykalGroll ( talk) 16:35, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
The NPA section currently reads more like a blog and is in need of revision. While the numerous outgoing links inserted by editors may serve to point a reader to a source for more information, it is not aligned with how Wikipedia entries are written. The content gets distilled by the editor(s) with a numerical citation to the source, not a hot link to a web address in article. The repetition of five outgoing hot links to articles in the NPA section disrupts the flow and forces the reader to do the distilling. I am sure that there is relevant information linked in the section but wanted to address this issue and the logic behind it before making any changes to the page. Kind Regards Cedar777 ( talk) 03:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
There are three serious problems with this section:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by McSchwangstasis ( talk • contribs) 14:01, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add:
"A 2019 pending lawsuit in New York, alleged that Epstein used "MC2 Model Management", a the international modeling agency, to recruit girls as young as 13 from Europe, Ecuador and Brazil. According to the sworn statement of a former agency bookkeeper in her 2010 deposition in the civil case, Epstein paid for their visas and put them in an apartment he owned on 66th Street in Manhattan." Source:
At one point he had a $1 million investment in ″MC2 Model Management″. Source:
Not done appears to be already covered in Jeffrey_Epstein#Residences.
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Replace Steans with Stearns 209.122.211.116 ( talk) 21:44, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
He died of a suicide in Manhattan according to ABC 7 https://abc7news.com/sources-jeffrey-epstein-dies-by-suicide-in-manhattan-jail/5457853/ 71.241.217.188 ( talk) 13:02, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
It says suicided by the Clinton's under death, please be sure to remove this and other vandalism Baboo222 ( talk) 17:17, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under the cause of death in the Infobox, remove “(Clinton's suicided him).” This is unsourced and a pizzagate-tier conspiracy theory about the Vlintons. It has no place on Wikipedia. 2604:6000:1503:8A65:D17C:A319:6F68:3831 ( talk) 17:15, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Add to the line in Death section: After that incident, he was placed on suicide watch, but he was not on suicide watch at the time of his death.[211] [1] Mikethewhistle-original ( talk) 17:32, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Sources
|
---|
|
I just deleted a bunch of conspiracy theories from the article and the lead, including at least one that accused certain people of murdering Epstein. Please read WP:BLP; we absolutely can't pass along this kind of rumor no matter who says it. User:MarvellingLiked, thank you for trying to add to the article, but please be more careful to stay within Wikipedia guidelines. -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:15, 11 August 2019 (UTC) Oops, it wasn't MarvellingLiked who originally added it; it was User:Soibangla. You know better than that. -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
On 10 August 2019 at about 6:30 a.m. Epstein was “found unresponsive in his cell in the Special Housing Unit” at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC), according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Fire officials received a call at 6:39 a.m. that Epstein was in cardiac arrest. MCC staff tried to revive him. The New York Post reported that a gurney carrying a man who looked like Epstein was wheeled out of the MCC. At around 7:30 a.m. the photos showed EMTs using a breathing apparatus in an attempt to revive Epstein as he was wheeled out of the MCC into the Presbyterian-Lower Manhattan Hospital. Later he was pronounced dead at the hospital. Epstein’s death came less than a day after a court unsealed documents in a civil suit.
Attorney General William Barr said he was "appalled" and that Epstein’s death "raises serious questions that must be answered". Barr stated the FBI and the DOJ’s inspector general were investigating the circumstances of his death. Epsteins apparent suicide in federal custody in New York prompted outrage among lawyers seeking justice for victims. Eva Ford, the mother one victim, said: "How does someone who is this high profile commit suicide? They had to have cameras on him! Someone must have been paid to look the other way". Jack Scarola, a lawyer who representeds several victims stated: ″Epstein once again cheated his victims out of an opportunity for justice. While I’m sure none of them regret his death, all of them regret the information that died with him. The one expectation is that Epstein’s death not derail the investigation into others who participated in his criminal activities. There are named and unnamed co-conspirators who still need to be brought to justice″.
Sorces:
The description of Epstein's relationship with Clinton is written in an ambiguous way. It says:
The statement was made in 2019; the trips were made from 2001 to 2003. I can't help but wonder if this text was intentionally written to be ambiguous. Can someone please fix this? 72.140.133.233 ( talk) 13:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
What do you think, MelanieN?
The circumstances of his death raised conspiracy speculation on social media, particularly relating to former president Bill Clinton and then-president Donald Trump..[185] Clinton had worked with Epstein on matters relating to the Clinton Foundation in the early 2000s, flying on Epstein's jet 26 times.[186][187] Trump had a personal friendship with Epstein dating back at least fifteen years through 2002.[188] Hours after Epstein's death, President Trump joined the conspiracy speculation when he retweeted a conspiracy theory that Clinton may have been involved in Epstein's death, including the hashtag #ClintonBodyCount.[189]
soibangla ( talk) 00:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add:
Maurene Comey, daughter of former FBI Director James Comey and an assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, is a prosecutor in the 2019 criminal case against Epstein.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/06/us/jeffrey-epstein-arrest-sex-trafficking-indictment/index.html 87.170.197.207 ( talk) 14:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The date of death in the actual article says April 10th and then speaks about his suicide attempt 3 weeks prior in July. He died August 10th. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.31.105.143 ( talk) 19:18, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change his month of death (near the bottom of the article) from April to August 77.125.2.131 ( talk) 19:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
please add to "Personal life":
In 2010, just a few months after after Epstein completed his 13 months detention in Palm Beach, he, with the help of the prominent New York publicist Peggy Siegal, hosted at his home in Manhattan a “Break the Fast” after Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year and day of atonement — hundred friends and celebrities came, some brought their children. A few months later, on 2 December 2010, Epstein hosted a party for his friend, Prince Andrew, Duke of York, with several celebrities showing up.
Sources:
Not doneThe only original source for the Yom Kippur breakfast is the daily beast report. That article was making the point that he was popular because many people considered him brilliant and those that knew him were unaware of his pedophilia. You might want to reconsider rewording your requested changes to be more in line with the source. -- Nowa ( talk) 19:47, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Is this worth mentioning?: "Jeffrey Epstein won the Oklahoma Powerball lottery, July 2, 2008" - Published August 10, 2019
74.101.202.221 ( talk) 11:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
'Paris' is listed under Residence. Is this Paris, France, Paris, Texas or Paris, Maine? Would an editor in the know please refine this location. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.130.59.43 ( talk) 15:54, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
We should add this to the conspiracy section. AHC300 ( talk) 22:07, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to have a complete list of Epstein-related litigation with proper citations to the actual cases (not just articles about them).
I just ran a search on PACER Case Locator, and Google Scholar, as well as adding cross-references I found in other documents. I excluded cases involving Jeffrey A. / M. Epstein, (this one is E.), bankruptcy cases, cases about (or represented by) a Jeffrey Epstein who is a lawyer, and one frivolous case mentioning him offhand.
I was able to find substantiation of the following cases (listed in ~chronological order of filing):
Extensive list
|
---|
|
The article mentions, but I was unable to find, the following:
For the latter two, I did a PCL search for Maria Farmer and Jennifer Araoz. Neither is listed on any federal cases (at least not by that name).
I've listed most decisions I could find by formal cite (specific date, ECF #, slip op., published reporter cite, etc). For cases that just have case # & court, I didn't find a decision. (I haven't looked exhaustively, though.) For all decisions listed, though, I verified that they are about this Epstein. The ones that don't have him in the case name are generally about defamation, seal, or the CVRA.
A. Could someone please substantiate the last 2 - provide case #s & courts (and case # for Edwards v Epstein)?
B. Could someone please annotate the list above, and check the various cases involving people not named in the article (e.g. corporations, Orseck, Molyneux, etc - especially the 2006 & earlier cases) to see
Thanks! - Sai ¿? ✍ 12:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
How does his death affect the open civil suits? do they just go away? 76.84.112.61 ( talk) 16:57, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the Miami Herald articles on Epstein need a better place in this article. This is what got the ball rolling. The Miami Herald published articles on the plea deal. Then Senator Ben Sasse brought up the issue at the confirmation hearing of William Barr. Not too long after that the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York had Epstein arrested as he landed. It is still several months involved, but since Epstein was away in France this whole set of events may have been delayed because of lots of factors. As can be seen from this article [4] Sasse is still a driving force behind the push to investogate Epstein. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:16, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
These are two lesser named possible accomplices of Epstein. In part because they have been out of office a while, in part because they are not quite as notable as Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, and maybe in part because of complex bias/avoid bias meaning some want to avoid making a long list of accomplices of Epstein when it seems too politically one sided. It also may be that these two were not heavily named until the document dump a day before Epstein died. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:02, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
filed by Bradley Edwards, Trump banned Epstein from Mar-a-Lago.
That sounds awfully persuasive, doesn't it? After all, if it's in a court document, that means it's an official fact, right?
Nope.
The Edwards filing actually said "I learned through a source that Trump banned Epstein from his Maralago Club," which is merely hearsay, and Edwards later conceded "I've heard the rumor that Epstein was kicked out of there for allegedly trying to pick up somebody's daughter, something like that, but I think I did chase that down as far as I could and never was able to confirm it."
Edwards is known to have spoken to Trump. So, who might have the biggest motive to drop a rumor that Trump distanced himself from Epstein? soibangla ( talk) 21:59, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
In this edit I am opting for the term American. I think that his being Jewish is irrelevant. Bus stop ( talk) 21:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
it isnt more irrelevant than him being american. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.237.134.123 ( talk) 11:07, 20 July 2019 (UTC) 18:52, 2 August 2019 (UTC)~~ If you are jewish trying to scrub negative things that jewish people have done then I'm invoking "conflict of interest" thing at the top of the page (only guessing this because I've seen it a handful of times already on here), that particular word is too personal in the context for you to be removing it unbiased/critically. And a bit of history for you; the jewish people were a close-knit group for long enough that they developed their own genetic traits and cultures, and therefor are both a race and a religion. 99.18.204.223 ( talk) 18:51, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Artbenis ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
This user has been prolifically making changes without providing any sources. It's difficult to keep up with them and try to verify the changes. I am hoping they will come here and discuss the style of their edits and the need for reliable sources, avoiding WP:BLP violations, avoiding WP:SYNTHESIS and WP:OR, etc. Mostly Artbenis needs to be providing sources for statements that aren't included in the existing sources. Just for example this edit did not seem to be reflected in the listed source and would be a BLP violation. Unfortunately this article has attracted some very active and apparently inexperienced editors while being largely left unreviewed by our more experienced editors. —DIYeditor ( talk) 11:51, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Or for example this edit - are the scare quotes on "helping" from the police report or is this yet another BLP violation? —DIYeditor ( talk) 12:20, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm done reverting, I hope this will attract some other eyes. I assume this is a good faith editor who just doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. —DIYeditor ( talk) 12:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
A reading of the coverage of Epstein over the last two months has convinced me that not everyone believes Epstein's claim that he only had clients worth more than $1 billion. I wonder if some of this skepticism towards this claim should be reflected in how we word it. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
I wanted to note here that I nominated Jeffrey Epstein death conspiracy theories for deletion, and shortly thereafter Death of Jeffrey Epstein was created, which I have also nominated for deletion. We now have three articles, including this one, overlapping on the topic of the death of Jeffrey Epstein. The conspiracy theory article has, of course, become a dumping ground for the various rumors that Clinton flew on the "Lolita Express" and Trump and Epstein took turns raping a thirteen-year-old girl. bd2412 T 23:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For an update to the second charges section I was going to submit a link regarding a raid that the FBI had conducted on Epstein's island. link: https://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-raided-criminal-financier-jeffrey-epsteins-private-island-report-2019-8 Cpb2147 ( talk) 04:49, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Right now the default is to archive this page after 30 days. IMO, due to his death the page has become so heavily edited that 30 days is unrealistic. Right now there are 57 titles in the contents listing. Some of the older threads have attracted recent edits this week, but many are weeks old. Anybody think we should reduce the archive default to something more normal, like a week or 10 days? -- MelanieN ( talk) 22:30, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
The bot just archived 16 discussions amounting to 60,000 bytes, so I feel better now. -- MelanieN ( talk) 16:46, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The claim of suicide is not proven and is just a police opinion. How a man who is on suicide watch with 24 hr camera on and manually checked by guards every 15 min commits suicide is near impossible. The death should be listed as unknown until proven otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 16:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Rumors from cops is not source. No autopsy has been preformed. No cause of death from a medical professional has been released. No death certificate has been issued. The only truth is he was found in a jail cell dead hung. Wikipedia is about truth not the spreader of cop rumor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 17:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
If we are going to accept cop rumor as fact. Then the claim of drunk guys that see aliens walking around after an all night drunk are also fact according to this new Wikipedia standard.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk • contribs)
He was no longer on suicide watch. Attorney General Barr has ordered an investigation into how this happened. -- MelanieN ( talk) 17:46, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Correct especially because three weeks ago he was found with damage to his neck he said that was caused by another person. The reason he was in the "special unit" at the time of his death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 18:34, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
On Friday August 9,2019 over 2,000 documents were released naming many rich and powerful people connected to Jeffery Epstein including Prince Andrew of Great Britain. Less than 24 hours later he is found dead in his cell on Saturday morning August 10,2019. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.55.50 ( talk) 14:03, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Two Jail guards paid to watch Jeffery were found to both had been asleep for at least three hours and falsified official police logs claiming they checked on him while they were asleep. According to a breaking news story from the New York times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 10:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
According to the Washington post his neck was snapped a clear indication he was murdered. It is not possible for a person to snap their neck unless the were hung from a great height like a gallows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 05:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change: "In 2015, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that Epstein invested in a startup headed by former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak."
to: "In 2015, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that Epstein invested in a startup called Reporty Homeland Security (now Carbyne) headed by former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak." 87.170.195.115 ( talk) 16:47, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
{{u|
waddie96}} {
talk}
09:42, 15 August 2019 (UTC)This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Since it seems to fit this section:
please change "Both Clinton[155] and Donald Trump[156] claimed that they never visited Epstein's island."
to "Both Clinton[155] and Donald Trump[156] claimed that they never visited Epstein's island. In 2016 Barak was caught on camera entering Epstein's Manhattan mansion with his face covered and closely followed by four young women, despite his claims he has 'never met Epstein in the company of women or young girls.'"
{{u|
waddie96}} {
talk}
09:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[6] via HN [7]. Info leak from the hospital or jail I guess, has some unconfirmed medical details, no idea what to make of it. Contains usual 4chan trolling, hold nose before reading. 67.164.113.165 ( talk) 03:45, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Chris Walker: 4chan User Posted About Epstein Death — 38 Minutes Before It Was Public Knowledge, Hill Reporter, 13 August 2019 -- 93.211.219.161 ( talk) 17:33, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
NY Post "Why was Jeffrey Epstein’s death on 4chan before it became public?" [12] 173.228.123.207 ( talk) 20:20, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
BuzzFeed News: Jeffrey Epstein's Death Was On 4Chan Before Officials Announced It — And Authorities Had To Look Into It, August 13, 2019 -- 93.211.220.161 ( talk) 03:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Trump said of Epstein in 2002: "I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side."[68]
Vapid, out of context left-wing drivel. This should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.55.169 ( talk) 03:17, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
“I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them on the younger side. Jeffrey enjoys his social life.” – Donald J. Trump in 2002
FactChecker429 (
talk)
03:23, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Cramyourspam has been warned for their obvious trolling. Do not engage with trolls. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Clinton being his friend is farm more important than Trump, Trump at the time wasn't a politician, Clinton was. Any rich person is going to have friends with a lot of people. Also if you're leaving it for political reasons, wasn't Trump a democrat at the time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:1E02:C05D:B168:B66D:9F96:3439 ( talk) 06:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Cramyourspam wasn't trolling. He was trying to make a point. An accurate point that is usually only denied by the accused editors. Wikipedia, or rather Wikimedia, no longer tries to hide the political bias of it's "well respected" editors, or fact that only one political ideology is consistently uplifted and protected. The examples of it are everywhere. Not trying to get involved in the actual "debate" there, just clarifying what Cramyourspam was doing, since it seems his comments were misunderstood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.212.30 ( talk) 14:34, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Will leave this here for future edit request:
According to a report by MSNBC from Aug. 15. 2019, Epstein's corpse was claimed by an unidentified "associate" from the New York medical examiner's office. [13]
A lawyer working at the MCC reports that Epstein was frequently given access to one of two meeting rooms available for inmates of the Special Housing Unit, so much that other lawyers had grown frustrated with Epstein's daily presence there. He was also once visited by a young woman without the company of his main lawyer.
The lawyer reporting his observation stated: “I think she was there just to babysit him, and keep him out of his cell, and just keep him company for eight hours a day,” he added. “Which is not supposed to be the way it works.”
"Prison officials did not respond to Forbes’ calls about Epstein’s apparently frequent access to the meeting room." [14]
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 20:24, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The first sentence of the Epstein's page states that he was... "was an American financier and convicted sex offender.", but due the nature of his hideous crimes, I believe he should be first identified as a sex offender. The first sentence should read: "was a convicted sex offender and American financier." Larryfargus ( talk) 06:16, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change >>and instead urged them to have "patience".[82][83]<<
to >>and instead urged them to have "patience".[82][83]
In a July 2019 press conference regarding the Epstein case Acosta stated that "individuals from main justice were involved fairly early on and were certainly aware of it" and "that decisions were appealed again and again to main justice". He also provided the press with public documents that support his account.<<
Source: DEFENDING PLEA DEAL: Acosta SPEAKS on Jeffrey Epstein History
A transcript of that part is here: [15]
I have no idea how to find the public documents Acosta refers to as I am not familiar with US bureaucracy. Can someone help with this?
Seems worth mentioning that Trump, as per this article, https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/456979-trump-retweets-post-promoting-conspiracy-theory-about-jeffrey has retweeted conspiracy theories accusing the Clintons of involvement in Epstein's death (particularly given that Barr is quoted in the article in response to the apparent suicide). 206.45.7.58
The edit summary "removing this rumor for heavens sake. The Clintons are living persons after all; we can't pass along this kind of accusation no matter who says it." made by /info/en/?search=User:MelanieN is an absurd and indefensible reason not to mention such an important claim in regard to this event. Trump is directly implicated in the Epstein case, his Attorney General (who is investigating the death) has conflicts of interest related to it, and his former Secretary of Labor was responsible for the illegal deal that helped him escape justice in the past. Why would this accusation not be notable, let alone when it is made by the President himself? For comparison, nearly the entirety of Seth Rich's Wikipedia article is devoted to the allegations against the Clintons surrounding his death. Why should this article be any different? Accusations are made against living persons all the time and must be accurately reflected as such on Wikipedia. Documenting that an accusation was made does not mean Wikipedia is endorsing that accusation.( talk) 00:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
I have to agree, it's standard procedure to include high profile accusations and suspicions. That said, since it's Trump, chances are they wont be included. As wiki continues to become more and more politically motivated, you'll see more inconsistencies like this. The facts are documented elsewhere though, and relying on wiki for accuracy is a bad idea anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.212.30 ( talk) 14:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
Can someone tell me how would a registered sex offender be qualified as a "philantropist" (i.e. love for humanity)? Any logic, common sense to this? almoravid ( talk) 22:10, 8 July 2019 (UTC
So what? Your picking of a 2015 source calling Epstein a "philantropist" doesn't contradict anything what is discussed above but it obviously ignores this discussion. Why do you then prefer editwarring-like behavior to change the article space after ignoring this discussion?
Are you really so hooked up to Epstein’s former image that (according to sources) Epstein paid for, to journalists, to PR agencies? Is it Wikipedia's goal to protect and resurrect “bought” images? How do you explain that reasonable reports don't call Epstein philantropist anymore in contrast to your personal preference?
As you don’t seem to like explaining yourself in an understandable manner it can only be assumed you think changing the heading from “Gifts” (as some sources called it) again to “Philantropist” (as other sources called it) would better protect Epstein’s reputation. You seem to ignore that Epstein’s reputation and the knowledge about him have already significantly changed, so any missions to restore Epstein's image pre-revelation are misguided, also your editwarring style will not help. Why do you ignore that your term “philanthropist” would include that Epstein has “love for humanity” (contradiction to what he reportedly does to other humans?) And, did you ever think about what it would mean for the families of all these hundreds of underage girls to read that Wikipedia would still attribute to this guy “love for humanity” even if there are more neutral words available for the headings?-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 17:45, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
"[d]on't ask me if all sources want to explicitly explain that they may have been deceived by Epstein and his circles for decades, or if all sources now will do an official 'status' update on how Epstein is to be named."Until they update us to the new understanding that he is not a philanthropist, he remains a philanthropist. One does not lose the status of philanthropist based on having sex with underage girls. Here you say "Please name the multiple reliable sources". (And here you say "added 'allegedly' as Epsteins foundation doesn't disclose".) The sources are found at Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation. It is not merely alleged that the Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation funds science research and education. When an assertion is supported by sources there is no need to call that assertion an allegation. The sources in the Jeffrey Epstein VI Foundation article support that he gave millions of dollars to Harvard University. Furthermore a philanthropic gift does not become an alleged philanthropic gift if a foundation
"doesn't disclose". You are coining your own use for the word "alleged". This source (for instance) writes "Elusive financier Jeffrey E. Epstein donated $30 million this year to Harvard for the founding of a mathematical biology and evolutionary dynamics program." Despite the fact that this source was written in 2003 there is no reason or logic for him to now be an "alleged" philanthropist. You have not produced a source supportive of your characterization that he is an "alleged" philanthropist yet you have twice added "alleged" to the article. Bus stop ( talk) 19:13, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Exactly why would you decline to name the section about donations "Donations" ?-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 20:30, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
"Also, you weren’t sure if 'high amount donations' still qualify as 'donations'."There are no qualifications that something must meet in order to be considered a donation. A ten billion dollar donation is certainly possible, based on it being grammatically correct. He is not accused of for instance giving counterfeit currency to Harvard departments of math and biology. You are arguing that we should knock him down a notch in an area unrelated to the crimes he is accused of. Bus stop ( talk) 12:52, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
It is not about me. Obviously, most of the reasonable sources don't call Epstein a “philanthropist" anymore after what has been revealed about him. And even if you wouldn't know the meaning of widespread Greek words like "phil", "phob", "anthropo" you could still google it if you wanted to understand why sources stopped calling Epstein a “philanthropist". Also, "Donations" is not an "insult" or a "knocking down" of the donor as you seem to imply, it is just a neutral word for the activity of donating money, and most sources even use this word, also for Epstein's donations, so it would be no problem to use it for the heading of his donations. Also, that Epstein’s donations were "unrelated" to his (criminal) life is only a private theory of yours as according to what sources revealed Epstein's donations were not only very related to his (hidden) criminal life and life-style, it was for him an important lever to distract from his criminal activities.-- BalancedIssues ( talk) 23:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
"most of the reasonable sources don't call Epstein a 'philanthropist' anymore". Nor does the article call him a philanthropist. The article has within it the section heading of "Philanthropy". You are objecting to a section heading. Large sums of money moving from wealthy individuals to good causes is called philanthropy. It is a section heading that you are objecting to. I don't think terms such as "donations" or "gifts" are as appropriate for the section heading under discussion as the term "philanthropy". If one gives a used car to a charitable organization it could appropriately be called a donation. But what the subject of this article has given falls into the more rarified category of philanthropy. We should not knock what he has gifted down a notch by using the section heading appropriate to more common gifts of little more than a few thousand dollars. At least in a few cases he has given millions of dollars. And the recipients of such largess were such sterling institutions as Harvard, and for causes as worthwhile as math and science. Bus stop ( talk) 01:50, 30 July 2019 (UTC)
Just wanted to say that the "See Also" section in this article strikes me as extraneous, and I really think should be done away with in the name of parsimony. Though the topics undoubtedly bear some relationship to the article, I am not sure that broad discussions of this sort are really helpful. I won't make any changes until I see if there's something approaching consensus. Cheers. Dumuzid ( talk) 00:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change: "Epstein taught calculus and physics at the Dalton School in Manhattan from 1974 to 1976."
to
Despite being a college drop-out, Epstein was hired in 1973 by Donald Barr, the headmaster at Manhattan’s private Dalton School (1964–74), as a calculus and physics teacher. There Epstein taught from 1974 to 1976. Donald Barr worked during World War II for the OSS (forerunner of the CIA), and is the father of current United States Attorney General William Barr, who is currently overseeing Epstein’s prosecution. The hire was unusual for a number of reasons: Epstein had not earned a college degree, the other odd circumstance was that he was only 20 years of age.
Sources (please, choose):
Done per consensus. I also updated per current events and info from sources.
According to www.ageofconsent.net in New Mexico a partner's age of consent can be as low as 14 for a person of age 18: "New Mexico statutory rape law is violated when a person over age 18 has consensual sexual intercourse with an individual under age 17 who is at least 4 years younger. "
I have added "adult" into the relevant sentence for more clarity, as it applies to Epstein (even though age 18 is an adult). Artbenis ( talk) 12:32, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
See [20] [21]. According to the latter article, some “prominent Republicans” think Jeffrey Epstein may have been a Mossad agent, like his ex-girlfriend’s father Robert Maxwell was said to be. 97.116.77.170 ( talk) 13:23, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Epstein made a previous attempt about a month ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.51.7.73 ( talk) 14:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Cause of Death (specific injury or disease leading to death) is normally obvious and easy to determine; Manner/Mode of Death (natural, accident, suicide, homicide, or undetermined) is what is difficult to determine. -- Naaman Brown ( talk) 20:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
To add to the article: what did Epstein use to hang himself? 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 15:40, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
Reported in the New York Post: "Jeffrey Epstein was found hanging in his lower Manhattan jail cell with a bedsheet wrapped around his neck and secured to the top of a bunk." 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 09:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
It's not vandalism. Investigations into whether this was another 'Arkancide' [23] are getting a lot of attention right now. We should report on all points of view in the public discourse. 97.68.156.197 ( talk) 20:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
His neck was snapped by persons unknown while his guards were sleeping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 05:53, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change the intro paragraph. It is incredinly disrespectful of you to write "he is best known for being a sex trafficker" before even writing the stuff before the MOST RECENT DEVELOPMENT. Just because a mans life has a mistake does not mean that defined his entire life, in fact, it only RECENTLY even became evident. How about instead of being a biased, one sided media outlet like Fox news, you actually give the facts. Thats what you are designed for. Leave out your stupid opinion, and I say stupid, because you may not think it is, but I do, which means at least 1 other human, thinks what you wrote is stupid, disrespectful, and clearly bad writing. How about instead of acting like Cosmo, you give the facts, like you were designed to. The fact was that he only recently, so recently that I had no idea who this man even was, until today, accused, note, accused, as a sex trafficker, and thats what you lead with in your article. Disgusting. How would you like it if someone wrote an official page about you and lead in the intro with those secrets you dont tell anyone, those things that mortify you, your mistakes? Does that seem fair? Like an accurate depiction of you? No. It isn't. So be fair, put your opinon of the man aside, and properly write this article. Geez. 2601:191:8580:35DD:3C25:8BB:734C:B10D ( talk) 21:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
He was convicted as a sex offender in 2008. That is not recent. Only the sex trafficking charges are newer. Cedar777 ( talk) 21:51, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
This article dates back to August 2006, so just after Epstein was first charged. He is there said to be accused of soliciting "underaged prostitues". Bill Clinton is one of his associates mentioned in that very first iteration of the article. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 04:11, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "Epstein was a multimillionaire who, until his conviction for sex crimes in 2008, was well connected with the financial, political, and cultural elites of society."
to "Epstein was a multimillionaire who, even after his conviction for sex crimes in 2008, was well connected with the financial, political, and cultural elites of society."
Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-case-grows-more-grotesque - see first paragraph
I think this needs to be changed because the current version significantly downplays his role and status in elite circles even after his conviction. I mean, there even was a welcome party after he got released from jail, for crying out loud:
Source: Epstein Was a Sex Offender. The Powerful Welcomed Him Anyway.
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 04:32, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
"until his conviction for sex crimes in 2008"part at all if his crimes had no effect on his influence among the cultural elites. – Anne drew 14:19, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
<ins>
and <del>
per
WP:TPG.
—DIYeditor (
talk)
19:39, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change the “under 18 girl for prostitution” That is a child and a child is not a prostitute they are a victim being abused and taken advantage of by adults. She can not give consent so can not give sex for money. 2601:184:4180:6A14:DE7:5DEA:D80:4778 ( talk) 15:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Jeffrey Epstein has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change >>The national president of the Council of Prison Locals C-33, E. O. Young, stated that prisons "can't ever stop anyone who is persistent on killing themselves".[232]<<
to >>The national president of the Council of Prison Locals C-33, E. O. Young, stated that prisons "can't ever stop anyone who is persistent on killing themselves".[232] However, as a former inmate of the MCC stated, it is impossible to hang one self in their prison cells as there are no means to do so.<<
Source: Former MCC inmate: There’s ‘no way’ Jeffrey Epstein killed himself
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 14:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
{{not done}} Interesting article, but the former inmate is not an authoritative source, nor does the article in it's own voice say that suicide was not possible.--
Nowa (
talk)
15:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
91.114.251.169 ( talk) 23:30, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Cause of death is from a snapped neck according to the Washington post. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:05, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
According to the New York post many inmates heard screaming coming from his cell early Saturday morning. With the broken neck and the screaming coming from his cell more than enough evidence that he was murdered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:25, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Explain this? If they wanted to keep him alive for trial why would they put him in a cell with a guy accused of quadruple murder? Could not find a safe cell mate that was not accuse of murder? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 06:51, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
Just released from the Washington Post. His type of broken hyoid neck break is seen in only 16 out of 264 suicides or 6 % of the cases. In the other 248 cases it was murder or 94% of the time. By this report its 94% certain he was murdered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.60.203 ( talk) 12:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
The article should list the bones broken in Epstein's neck. 71.82.73.37 ( talk) 22:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)