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To call Bartlet anything than the former President of the United States is wrong. At the end of the series, he has been succeeded by Matt Santos, and is therefore the former President. By extension, C.J. is no longer Chief of Staff, and has been replaced by Josh. Her article reflects this information correctly, labeling her the "former White House Chief of Staff."
Additionally, your Batman analogy is just wrong. First, Batman is not an office, it is a persona. Second, to continue the discussion of C.J., she was Press Secretary for the majority of the show's run. Does this mean that it is incorrect to call her the "former Press Secretary?" How can she be both Press Secretary and Chief of Staff? Likewise, Bartlet can never be both a private citizen and the President of the United States. He may always be referred to as "President Bartlet;" that is a matter of custom, as you will hear Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter referred to as "President Clinton" and "President Carter" even after they have left office. However, this does not mean that either of them are still President of the United States.
The key thing to remember here is that we are dealing with fiction. The key things that people want to know about the character will be what they were and did in the series to the best phraseology is something like "chracter was President of the US for virtually all of the series". DJ Clayworth 17:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the lead is technically wrong when it says that he was always President. Remember when I think Chloe was kidnapped and he stepped down for a bit? American Patriot 1776 00:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Reagan and Bush were still the President. They held the title and the office, just not the powers of the office. Nooders123 23:34, 23 May (BST)
In 'Bartlet for America', we see Leo going to visit Bartlet to encourage him to run for president. He was govenor of NH at this time. However in The Shadow of Two Gunmen, when the results of the primaries come in, they say that former NH govenor wins the primaries. The Presidential Election took place in 1998, so the primaries would have taken place before this, and so Bartlet would not have still been govenor in 1999, right?
Although throughout the primary season he is called Govenor, is this because he still holds the office or is entitled to in the same way that former presidents still hold the title and not the office? Nooders123 23:34
In the flashback in another episode Barlet was in the Governor's Mansion some three days after he was elected President. Former Governors do not live in the Governor's Mansion. Therefore if he was a former Governor at the time, he would have been there on the invitation of the Governor who replaced him.-- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 06:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
What about the terms? Two terms, 1995-1999? One term is four years. So it has to be one term.
SpencerHill (
talk)
22:43, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone else think these are a little dumb? Only two names go in any of these (Bartlet and Santos) and now the series is over we know we will never get any more. Having a succession box for a position only ever held by one or two people is not very useful. DJ Clayworth 18:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree, and it makes the page rather "busy" for no apparent reason. Jc37 00:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The issue of "former", and whether Owen Lassiter precedes the President Bartlet, are all issues of timeline skew, and shouldn't be an issue on this page for the several reasons Hnsampat stated above. (In particular, point 3.)
Also, while we "can" say former President Clinton, we can also say President Clinton.
So at this point, I would think that the point is moot, and the article should be done in the present tense.
If one felt it necessary, a footnote or subsection at the bottom could inform about the Santos victory. This would leave the article intact, and yet give accurate information. Jc37 00:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Because that page and this page duplicate information, I turned it into a template for easier editing of information.
This page has better formatting, so I suggest that we merge the two into the template.
However, the template includes the Speaker and the Pres Pro-tempore of the Senate.
Maybe we should remove them, and just rename the page: President Bartlet's cabinet on The West Wing.
(Or something like that : )
-
Jc37
01:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
While I agree with the "present tense", there is a grammatical problem with tense in the sentence progression.
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. He is succeeded by Democratic Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, who defeats Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election. Bartlet returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
Event A follows after event B. So if event B has occurred, then event A needs to be past tense.
So since, in the sentence, Bartlet is defeated by Santos, then anything that occurred prior to that MUST be in the past tense.
Incorrect:He is succeeded by someone, who defeats someone.
Correct:He is succeeded by someone, who defeated someone.
Following this in rewriting the paragraph:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. He is succeeded by Democratic Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, who defeated Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election. Bartlet then returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
- Jc37 05:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There are several problems with the most recent edit:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. In that season, the 2006 presidential election is held, in which Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, defeats Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California, becoming Bartlet's successor. Bartlet then returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
How about this:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term as president." (And add some bridging sentence.)
"Near the end of this season (and the series), the Democratic nominee, Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, defeats the Republican nominee, Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election, and thereby becomes Bartlet's successor."
"Bartlet subsequently returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and while en route, has the last word of the series. It occurs when Mrs. Bartlet asks the introspective former President what he is thinking about, and Bartlet replies: "Tomorrow.""
I split this in three sections, because they are three separate ideas (which should be separate paragraphs) The first paragraph could use some fleshing out (Bartlet in the final season), if for no other reason than to bridge going from "last term" to suddenly talking about another semi-related event (the election) which also occurred in the last season. - Jc37 02:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
What episode is his middle name "Edward" from? I can't seem to find it searching through transcripts. Is it from the 6th or 7th season, or is it just assumed by the nickname "Jed?"-- 216.125.50.226 18:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
It's a reference made by the Special Prosecutor when he hands down the subpoena for the impending grand jury investigation. The episode referred to is "Ways and Means" (Season 3) Prqc 19:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Should there be some mention made in this entry that Bartlet has at least one brother, Jonathan? (Mentioned in the 2nd season episode "Somebody's Going to Emergency...") LJade728 04:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Should there be some mention of Bartlet being censured by the House during Season 3?
Abby mentions in "The Indians in the Lobby" that Bartlet doesn't speak French. So, we know Bartlet speaks four languages and French isn't one of them. Here's the question: should we specifically mention that he doesn't speak French just because it's been mentioned on the show as such?
I say we should not. There are many other languages that Bartlet does not speak (i.e. every other language in the world except for the four that he does speak). While other episodes may not explicitly say "Bartlet doesn't speak X," we can infer what other languages Bartlet doesn't speak. For example, since he needs a translator to talk to Abdul Shareef, we know he doesn't speak Arabic. Since President Nimbala of Equatorial Kundu speaks to Bartlet through a translator, we can assume that Bartlet does not speak whatever language Nimbala speaks. Also, we can infer he doesn't speak Spanish since he has to talk to all Latin American leaders through translators. Ditto for the Indonesian president. If we say that Bartlet doesn't speak French, then it's only fair that we also mention what other languages he doesn't speak, according to other episodes of the show. (Failing to do that would indicate that we feel that French is more deserving of mention than other languages.)
But, as we can tell, that list of languages he doesn't speak would get very long very quickly. So, that's why I say that we just stick to the languages he *does* speak and no others. -- Hnsampat 11:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Merely asking for a translator is not enough to infer the lack of ability to speak a language. Politicians often use translators as a tool to give them more time to think when speaking to foreign dignitaries. At other times a the translator serves to fill in for a politicians lack of complete fluency. Moreover what viewers infer is not fact, but Abby specifically mentioned that President Bartlet speaks four languages but not french. The same source that gives you the fact you cite lends equal veracity to my point, the same sentence even. Now I don't know all the rules for this forum (and until I received a message I didn't know I could communicate with other Wikipedia Users) so I am sorry if I make some mistake in the signing of this post. ForeverZero 05:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC) ForeverZero
Huh, I think you're right. You guys have a good point. BUT HE STILL DOESNT SPEAK FRENCH!!!!! ~FZ
I added the citations for the other languages, but I thought I would explain, since there was a thing here. In "He Shall...", Bartlet translates a passage from a Latin version of the Constitution; in "The Women of Qumar," he tells Charlie that Ernst Haeckel's book is better in the original German; and Bartlet frequently speaks English throughout the series. And it actually is kind of weird that Bartlet has a doctorate in Economics but can't speak French, especially given the significant early French work in political economy. But if I didn't speak French, I wouldn't want in my Wiki article, either. Hansonfan 17:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Other proof that he speaks Latin and German is of course the great scene in the season two finale where he yells at God in His "own language" and I forget the episode but there's a scene where Leo is frustrating Bartlet a bit and the President says a quick sentence in German to express his annoyance. Incidentally, Bartlet is supposed to be an idealized version of Bill Clinton and Clinton also speaks a bit of German. And as for the fourth language, if you don't mind wild speculation (at least on the Talk page), if he planned on becoming a Catholic priest (that was why, after all, he went to Notre Dame in the first place), there would be a strong chance that he would know some Italian.-- 72.1.222.142 ( talk) 15:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
He can't speak Latin either since no one does. Reading a language out loud is not the same thing as conversing in it. I have changed the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.242.58.245 ( talk) 15:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
In my understanding of Abbey's "You speak four languages, why isn't one of them French?" was irony and simply her making fun of him misspeaking. Lyly _ Neuc ( talk) 16:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
i agree with the last comment by Lyly _ Neuc, or at least with the possibility that you are taking Abbey to seriously and more than that - to literally. She could both be exaggerating (again, high and low) when mentioning "4 languages", and understating when she states "one of them is not French". After seeing the show about 50 times over, my subjective view would be that Bartlet does speak French. Not only that, but even before seeing this discussion it came to me impulsively, even though i never thought about that concrete piece of detail. I did spontaneously however read Abbeys comment in a way described, not to say such observation is correct. I'd also add that I've seen everything made by Aaron Sorkin about 50 times over at least, and again my impression would be he doesn't think about these details when writing a line "You speak 4 languages". And finally, yeah, its fucking awesome Bartlet speaks Latin :) [Matija Radeljak] 22:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC+1)
When do we find out about the presidential library? What ep? -- Mattbray 10:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
It's much earleir in the series. Season Two ( Somebody's going to Emergenyc...) -- Darthbalmung 02:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Question: Barlet's Presidency started in 1998, did it not? That certainly fits with the elections in 2002 and 2006. This needs editing, no? -- Stephen K Bush 22:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to try to make a very small start on turning this into a genuine, encyclopedic, out-of-universe description. 199.71.183.2 17:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the cabibnet listing should be changed to show that Miles Hutchinson was not Secretary of Defense from day 1 of term 1. At some point in the first term he became secretary, but theres many military strategy moments early that he is not in the situation room where he would most definatly be had he been the Secretary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.81.12 ( talk) 02:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I must admit, the approach to Mile Hutchinson is very vague. We know he was Secretary of Defense in the very first episode (Pilot) which was the middle of Bartlet's first year. My guess is that he would have been Secretary of Defense since Bartlet began his first term (20 Jan 1999). Unless you have evidence to cite otherwise I reckon the wikipedia article is fine to state that Hutchinson was Secretary of Defense for all of Bartlet's presidency (1999-2007). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.37.66 ( talk) 16:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Please could this word be explained? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 ( talk)
It should be amended to show that his presidency was struggling to get anything done until the episode Let Bartlet Be Bartlet. ~ Dancemotron ( talk) 05:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Is it deliberate that the article barely mentions that he's a Democrat? I'm not a viewer of the programme, but I came to the article to find out which party he's a member of, and it's brushed over so lightly in the article that I had to come to the talk page here to get confirmation. -- VinceBowdren ( talk) 22:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Is this character really pro-life, in the sense it´s used in the USA, or pro-choice ? It was debated before if he could be qualified as "devout", and this was also debated before. I just got the impression that he´s not really pro-life. If so how could he have won the Democratic Party nomination ? 82.154.86.187 ( talk) 13:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Since this is just a fictional character, it wouldn´t be impossible that a more pro-life then pro-choice Democratic President to be elected. Sorry, but you seemed to confuse the question : "he does not feel it is the government's place to be legislating the issue". Then, he would be an anarchist ? Sorry but there legislation everywhere concerning abortion. Most European countries tend to be nowdays more pro-choice, unlike almost all Latin American countries, except Cuba, and most of the Muslim countries, who are pro-life. What you now said also contradicts what you wrote before, that he was pro-life : "In any case, the whole point is moot, because Bartlet is pro-life. This is made clear in the pilot episode when Leo mentions to Rev. Caldwell that Bartlet is scheduled to give a speech encouraging women to avoid abortion. Leo says that Bartlet does not publicly push for pro-life legislation, however, because he struggles with whether it is proper for him to impose his faith on the public at large." So he seems to be pro-life only in a platonic way or there are any chance he would vote to overrule the 1973 law ? Martin Sheen himself is more into the pro-life side. 81.193.190.42 ( talk) 20:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
This highly controversial issue is been always at stake at the American presidential elections in the last decades. I was just wandering if the things I asked are given a clear answear in the TV series. Anyway, it´s just fiction and, like it´s been pointed over and over, Democratic Party propaganda in form of TV series. The article doesn´t point, and that´s relevant, if he´s pro-life or pro-choice. It would make sense if this was added then. 85.240.20.90 ( talk) 21:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Look, to be honest, I quite dislike american politics. If there was a TV series with USA with an agnostic President, with a new Constitution, with the parliamentary system, that means a different Head of State and a different Head of Government, without trying to copy american politics, who is rather depressing from an european point of view, I certainly would find it interesting. In matter of "Democratic Party" propaganda in disguise, we just need to point that most of the actors are from that party, and they even show a presidential election were both candidates are pro-choice, and obviously "religious". There is a strange religious paranoia in American politics, which explains the almost total absence of non religious politicians and the discrimination of non religious people. See Talk:Discrimination against atheists. Even dismissing the Democratic Party propaganda question, it would be a monument to "political correctness". 82.154.86.57 ( talk) 02:54, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
(To the IP address intent on pushing an agenda) - If you don't care much for the program let alone the political system of the country it depicts then why are you participating in a discussion of topics to include or exclude on one of the television show's main characters? The show is over and finished, there aren't any new episodes and you aren't going to change anything by publishing ur opinion in a totally inappropriate manner in an irrelevant place. Yes, the program has explored abortion and the many view points attached to it but that makes it no less different from any other issue the program has explored. Terrorism, federal budget negotiations, drugs, international relations, states' rights, constitutional line of succession, the death penalty are all issues explored and many more but a fictional character's portrayed views on each issue doesn't require heavy abuse, unless of course your obsessed with what writers write in television scripts. On a side note, I'm sure from an American perspective, it was just as depressing watching the European countries' Parliaments squabble at each other during Question Time in the 1930s and 40s whilst their citizens were on the verge of being eaten alive by facism or communism or both. Regardless of which, this is a discussion forum on Martin Sheen's Josiah Bartlet, fictional President of the United States in the NBC television show The West Wing in case you needed reminding. To clarify anything, Matt Santos, the Democratic candidate who ran against Vinick in the 6th and 7th seasons actually told Leo McGarry that he himself was more prolife, a similar feeling that Bartlet has, but the two of them, in McGarry's words, were going to dance with the party that brought them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.111.61 ( talk) 17:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
it would be kind of cool... you could even try to put the signature (i think someone with more skills than i could make it up from -the only place i've ever seen it- the episode "bad moon rising", where it can be seen behind toby at 35'...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camilorojas ( talk • contribs) 05:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
This is more then obvious for a former Catholic like I was. It´s so difficult to be truly devout from a Catholic perspective, that means total commitment to the Catholic faith and it´s principles that a Catholic who disagrees with the Church in this issue, in any circunstance doesn´t qualifies himself as devout, because only anti-abortion legislation shows the protection of human life since the beginning. Not many Catholic politicians I can think about can be qualified as truly and that´s the real point "devouts". These are the cases of Lech Walesa and Julius Nyerere, who, despite their political differences, are or were strongly pro-life. All the Catholics who support abortion rights or hide that under a total morally unacceptable "choice", are at odds with the Church because they are under a severe mortal sin, and can and in my modest opinion should be denied communion. Believe me, for any person who passed intensily by the Catholic Church it´s easy to understand why the Catholics don´t have the right to disagree with the Church in such issues. That´s why this fictional charater is totally disqualified from being genuinely "devout". If anyone asks a decent priest or bishop he would say the same. That´s the end of the discussion, and I think I can speak in the name of those who don´t follow the Catholic Church anymore but understand fully this very controversial issue.---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.85.173 ( talk) 17:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
We are not starting this discussion again. We've had it several times and the overwhelming consensus has been opposed to what is really becoming a holy war on Wikipedia waged by this one IP user. The IP user is clearly a one-issue contributor to Wikipedia solely interested in the specific task of asserting in Wikipedia articles that Catholic politicians who are not 100% in favor of outlawing all forms of abortion are not "true" Catholics. If you look through this user's contributions (including the contributions of his/her various other IP avatars), that's all this user has done on Wikipedia. The user doesn't even care about the broader categories of Catholicism or abortion or about the Catholic Church's views on other issues. The user judges Catholic politicians solely on the issue of abortion (if they favor outlawing abortion, they're Catholic, or else they're not), which the user is free to do outside of Wikipedia, but then that user tries to use Wikipedia to assert that viewpoint. This is disruptive POV pushing that frankly may require administrator intervention. In the meantime, however, I say that we deny recognition to this user, who uses these talk pages to create controversy and generate discussion that will give him/her a forum for airing his/her viewpoints. Enough feeding. Deny recognition. This discussion goes no further. -- Hnsampat ( talk) 16:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
I've added an in-universe tag because the biography section is very long and completely lacks perspective from the real world. Feel free to remove it once the problem is fixed. – DroEsperanto( talk| contribs) 14:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
How do you change the cabinet table in this article? I'd like to correct the years of service for a member of teh Cabinet but when I go to "edit" for that section, I just see {{list of cabinet officials}} and then What's going on?
It's beyond silly that my summary of Bartlett's Presidency which I made the effort to add at the bottom has been removed. Your own criticisms of the article say that it needs to be expanded to include an "out-of-universe" style. My summary was reasonably based in fact, took into consideration an "out-of-universe" perspective and made a sincere effort to add a meaningful conclusion to the article which had been noticably absent. You editors obviously have no goal other than to be king of s**t hill. Word gets around and believe me, there are people who realize that there are very good reasons not to take Wikipedia seriously. I'm not sure I really see any good reason to continue to contribute to your discussion when it's not really a discussion; or to make sincere well-meaning efforts to improve your encyclopedia when it's not really an encyclopedia. Go bully other people, no one needs this nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.200.152 ( talk) 23:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
This sentence is unclear: "Sheen is one of the main characters of The West Wing, who appeared in all but thirteen of the episodes in the series, sporadically and during the final season, for a total of 142 of the 155 episodes."
It's not clear what "sporadically and during the final season" either means or refers to. I might assume it's intended to mean that some of the thirteen episodes in which Sheen did not appear occurred sporadically during the show's final season.
If so, then the above might be reworded: "Sheen is one of the main characters of The West Wing. He appeared in all but thirteen episodes, or 142 of the show's 155 total episodes. He did not appear in some of the episodes from the show's final season."
That the episodes in which he did not appear were spaced "sporadically" will be assumed by the reader. It does not need to be stated, as no reader will assume that the episodes in which Sheen did not appear were spaced evenly throughout the season (for example).
Would these changes be agreeable?
Bartlet's compassion is an important personality trait. I removed the words "[compassion] for those less fortunate"... Less fortunate than whom? Than Bartlet himself? If so, then is Bartlet's compassion for his political rivals (who are less fortunate when he defeats them, for example), equal to his compassion for the least fortunate among us?
Certainly not -- and the latter meaning is intended. My edit seeks to clarify.
To expand: Bartlett has compassion, especially for the least fortunate. It therefore seems unnecessary to add words that limit the description of that compassion to some unspecified class ("those less fortunate") -- which may, for example, include Bob Mayer (Vinick's speechwriter, played by Stephen Root -- who may arguably be considered "less fortunate" than Bartlet, Santos, Josh Lyman, and so on).
Surely Bartlet's compassion is for the "least" fortunate in society, and that is what is meant by the clause "for those less fortunate." Removing the clause clarifies that meaning because the clause is unnecessarily limiting, and confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salon Essahj ( talk • contribs) 01:50, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps the meaning of Bartlet's SAT result needs explaining to us foreigners who have never taken the test. According to the Wikipedia article on SAT:
The older SAT (before 1995) had a very high ceiling. In any given year, only seven of the million test-takers scored above 1580. A score above 1580 was equivalent to the 99.9995 percentile
Originally, I thought Bartlet's 1590 score was supposed to be out of 2400 (shows how much I know) but that didn't really sit with him being 1)very smart and 2)very focussed. 1590 out of 1600 is a bit different. Especially if you do it twice. Moletrouser ( talk) 10:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
I liked The West Wing, however, we should remember that this is an article about someone who never existed, except on a TV show where every other characters is fictional, too. So the article's length should reflect that the subject is not, in fact, notable at all. I also question whether Wikipedia articles describing specific episodes can count as reliable sources. It seems to be a circular argument: it happened because it happened. There are many good source notes and some which should be deleted because they are not actually sources, but merely descriptions on a different page which also have no sources. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:38, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
Using a Wikipedia article that does not have a source does not count as a reliable source. It is important to remember the policy on in-universe as well; this "person" never lived and never did things. "He" is fictional and so his actions are not relevant. The article should reflect real world experience: the actor, the producer, and not go on and on about the characters non-existent doings. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:18, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Under the "Presidency" section, the article includes the sentence, "Bartlet's accomplishments as President include granting amnesty to illegal immigrants from the Americas...." However, in the Wikipedia article on this application of the word "amnesty," it says: "In the illegal immigration debate, allowing illegal immigrants to legally remain in the United States is often called, usually by its opponents, amnesty.[22] Some observers contend that the word amnesty is improperly applied here. One reason is that the proposals under consideration include financial penalties for illegal immigrants. Another reason is that the government's current practice is generally to deport but not prosecute illegal immigrants and so there is sometimes no legal adjudication of 'guilt' to be forgiven."
I don't know what Bartlett did on the show regarding illegal immigrants, so perhaps someone familiar with this plot line can say if this the use of this word is NPOV or not in this context. Holdek ( talk) 00:27, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Even though in "the Pilot" Cuban immigrants were coming into the United States after escaping a hurricane fleeing Cuba, I don't recall amnesty being granted to them. It's possible it happened if someone wants to review the entire episode carefully or that in view of the current political situation over President Obama and Congress on immigration, that someone is trying to express a political point of view through Bartlet's page. I don't know which. 66.67.32.161 ( talk) 21:40, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: not moved per discussion below. Station1 ( talk) 06:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Josiah Bartlet →
Jed Bartlet – Requesting move to common name (compare
Bill Clinton).
jamacfarlane (
talk)
13:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I have modified this article to change Abbie's name from 'Barrington' to 'Bartlet'. Nowhere outside of FanFiction and Pintrest can I see any source for her maiden name. Searching the West Wing transcripts also has no uses of the word Barrington across all seven seasons. Can anyone shed any light on the source of this surname? Josheen1128 ( talk) 20:56, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Obviously a purely academic point, but given we learn that the electoral college margin was 303-235 in his first election, is it ever similarly detailed for his second contest? We do learn that Bartlett won 58% of the vote, so presumably it must have been a Reagan-style avalanche? Culloty82 ( talk) 16:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
The TV series Pine Gap named a US aircraft carrier after Jed Barlett. US aircraft carrier are named after US Presidents to honor them. Should this be mentioned here as an honor bestowed up on Jed Barlett? -- 85.212.251.3 ( talk) 19:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
The corresponding edit was reverted without explanation. Why is this not relevant? -- 195.63.142.16 ( talk) 19:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
I've made some edits concerning Bartlet's political career. This is to explain them so they may not be reversed.
In the pilot episode (which aired in 1999), Bartlet tells a story that explains he had a bad day at the state house 28 years ago; 28 years before 1999 was 1971, meaning he was likely first elected in 1970. There is no canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet had been elected before 1970. Furthermore, I updated Bartlet's infobox to display that he served in the New Hampshire House of Representatives from December 1970 to December 1984; this is because, in the real world, the New Hampshire Legislature convenes on the first Wednesday of December, and there is no reason to suggest this is any different in The West Wing universe.
I also removed the New Hampshire Board of Education from Bartlet's biography. In the show, Bartlet mentions former rival Elliot Roush, a school board candidate in New Hampshire. Bartlet mentions he defeated Roush in his first congressional campaign, but again, there is no canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet served on the New Hampshire Board of Education. I believe the source of this confusion is that Roush is running for a school board seat, which may have led some to believe Bartlet is a former school board member.
Bartlet is described as being a two-term Governor of New Hampshire, yet this article reflected him being a three-term governor. It appears that New Hampshire governors in The West Wing universe serve four-year terms as opposed to two-year terms in the real world. Because Bartlet was said to have been a three-term congressman, I edited his bio to reflect that he served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1985 to 1991 (three terms) and as Governor of New Hampshire from 1991 to 1999 (two terms).
There is also canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet married his wife Abbey in 1967. I've added that to the infobox too.
I hope this clears everything up. Hayden64 ( talk) 03:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
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To call Bartlet anything than the former President of the United States is wrong. At the end of the series, he has been succeeded by Matt Santos, and is therefore the former President. By extension, C.J. is no longer Chief of Staff, and has been replaced by Josh. Her article reflects this information correctly, labeling her the "former White House Chief of Staff."
Additionally, your Batman analogy is just wrong. First, Batman is not an office, it is a persona. Second, to continue the discussion of C.J., she was Press Secretary for the majority of the show's run. Does this mean that it is incorrect to call her the "former Press Secretary?" How can she be both Press Secretary and Chief of Staff? Likewise, Bartlet can never be both a private citizen and the President of the United States. He may always be referred to as "President Bartlet;" that is a matter of custom, as you will hear Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter referred to as "President Clinton" and "President Carter" even after they have left office. However, this does not mean that either of them are still President of the United States.
The key thing to remember here is that we are dealing with fiction. The key things that people want to know about the character will be what they were and did in the series to the best phraseology is something like "chracter was President of the US for virtually all of the series". DJ Clayworth 17:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the lead is technically wrong when it says that he was always President. Remember when I think Chloe was kidnapped and he stepped down for a bit? American Patriot 1776 00:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Reagan and Bush were still the President. They held the title and the office, just not the powers of the office. Nooders123 23:34, 23 May (BST)
In 'Bartlet for America', we see Leo going to visit Bartlet to encourage him to run for president. He was govenor of NH at this time. However in The Shadow of Two Gunmen, when the results of the primaries come in, they say that former NH govenor wins the primaries. The Presidential Election took place in 1998, so the primaries would have taken place before this, and so Bartlet would not have still been govenor in 1999, right?
Although throughout the primary season he is called Govenor, is this because he still holds the office or is entitled to in the same way that former presidents still hold the title and not the office? Nooders123 23:34
In the flashback in another episode Barlet was in the Governor's Mansion some three days after he was elected President. Former Governors do not live in the Governor's Mansion. Therefore if he was a former Governor at the time, he would have been there on the invitation of the Governor who replaced him.-- The Shadow Treasurer ( talk) 06:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
What about the terms? Two terms, 1995-1999? One term is four years. So it has to be one term.
SpencerHill (
talk)
22:43, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone else think these are a little dumb? Only two names go in any of these (Bartlet and Santos) and now the series is over we know we will never get any more. Having a succession box for a position only ever held by one or two people is not very useful. DJ Clayworth 18:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree, and it makes the page rather "busy" for no apparent reason. Jc37 00:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The issue of "former", and whether Owen Lassiter precedes the President Bartlet, are all issues of timeline skew, and shouldn't be an issue on this page for the several reasons Hnsampat stated above. (In particular, point 3.)
Also, while we "can" say former President Clinton, we can also say President Clinton.
So at this point, I would think that the point is moot, and the article should be done in the present tense.
If one felt it necessary, a footnote or subsection at the bottom could inform about the Santos victory. This would leave the article intact, and yet give accurate information. Jc37 00:02, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Because that page and this page duplicate information, I turned it into a template for easier editing of information.
This page has better formatting, so I suggest that we merge the two into the template.
However, the template includes the Speaker and the Pres Pro-tempore of the Senate.
Maybe we should remove them, and just rename the page: President Bartlet's cabinet on The West Wing.
(Or something like that : )
-
Jc37
01:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
While I agree with the "present tense", there is a grammatical problem with tense in the sentence progression.
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. He is succeeded by Democratic Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, who defeats Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election. Bartlet returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
Event A follows after event B. So if event B has occurred, then event A needs to be past tense.
So since, in the sentence, Bartlet is defeated by Santos, then anything that occurred prior to that MUST be in the past tense.
Incorrect:He is succeeded by someone, who defeats someone.
Correct:He is succeeded by someone, who defeated someone.
Following this in rewriting the paragraph:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. He is succeeded by Democratic Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, who defeated Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election. Bartlet then returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
- Jc37 05:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There are several problems with the most recent edit:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term. In that season, the 2006 presidential election is held, in which Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, defeats Republican Senator Arnold Vinick of California, becoming Bartlet's successor. Bartlet then returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and has the last word of the series: when Mrs. Bartlet asked the introspective former President Bartlet what he is thinking about, Bartlet replies, "Tomorrow.""
How about this:
"In the seventh and final season of The West Wing, Bartlet is in the last year of his term as president." (And add some bridging sentence.)
"Near the end of this season (and the series), the Democratic nominee, Congressman Matthew Santos, a former Houston Mayor, defeats the Republican nominee, Senator Arnold Vinick of California in the 2006 presidential election, and thereby becomes Bartlet's successor."
"Bartlet subsequently returns to his New Hampshire home aboard Air Force One with his wife, and while en route, has the last word of the series. It occurs when Mrs. Bartlet asks the introspective former President what he is thinking about, and Bartlet replies: "Tomorrow.""
I split this in three sections, because they are three separate ideas (which should be separate paragraphs) The first paragraph could use some fleshing out (Bartlet in the final season), if for no other reason than to bridge going from "last term" to suddenly talking about another semi-related event (the election) which also occurred in the last season. - Jc37 02:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
What episode is his middle name "Edward" from? I can't seem to find it searching through transcripts. Is it from the 6th or 7th season, or is it just assumed by the nickname "Jed?"-- 216.125.50.226 18:47, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
It's a reference made by the Special Prosecutor when he hands down the subpoena for the impending grand jury investigation. The episode referred to is "Ways and Means" (Season 3) Prqc 19:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Should there be some mention made in this entry that Bartlet has at least one brother, Jonathan? (Mentioned in the 2nd season episode "Somebody's Going to Emergency...") LJade728 04:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Should there be some mention of Bartlet being censured by the House during Season 3?
Abby mentions in "The Indians in the Lobby" that Bartlet doesn't speak French. So, we know Bartlet speaks four languages and French isn't one of them. Here's the question: should we specifically mention that he doesn't speak French just because it's been mentioned on the show as such?
I say we should not. There are many other languages that Bartlet does not speak (i.e. every other language in the world except for the four that he does speak). While other episodes may not explicitly say "Bartlet doesn't speak X," we can infer what other languages Bartlet doesn't speak. For example, since he needs a translator to talk to Abdul Shareef, we know he doesn't speak Arabic. Since President Nimbala of Equatorial Kundu speaks to Bartlet through a translator, we can assume that Bartlet does not speak whatever language Nimbala speaks. Also, we can infer he doesn't speak Spanish since he has to talk to all Latin American leaders through translators. Ditto for the Indonesian president. If we say that Bartlet doesn't speak French, then it's only fair that we also mention what other languages he doesn't speak, according to other episodes of the show. (Failing to do that would indicate that we feel that French is more deserving of mention than other languages.)
But, as we can tell, that list of languages he doesn't speak would get very long very quickly. So, that's why I say that we just stick to the languages he *does* speak and no others. -- Hnsampat 11:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Merely asking for a translator is not enough to infer the lack of ability to speak a language. Politicians often use translators as a tool to give them more time to think when speaking to foreign dignitaries. At other times a the translator serves to fill in for a politicians lack of complete fluency. Moreover what viewers infer is not fact, but Abby specifically mentioned that President Bartlet speaks four languages but not french. The same source that gives you the fact you cite lends equal veracity to my point, the same sentence even. Now I don't know all the rules for this forum (and until I received a message I didn't know I could communicate with other Wikipedia Users) so I am sorry if I make some mistake in the signing of this post. ForeverZero 05:01, 27 April 2007 (UTC) ForeverZero
Huh, I think you're right. You guys have a good point. BUT HE STILL DOESNT SPEAK FRENCH!!!!! ~FZ
I added the citations for the other languages, but I thought I would explain, since there was a thing here. In "He Shall...", Bartlet translates a passage from a Latin version of the Constitution; in "The Women of Qumar," he tells Charlie that Ernst Haeckel's book is better in the original German; and Bartlet frequently speaks English throughout the series. And it actually is kind of weird that Bartlet has a doctorate in Economics but can't speak French, especially given the significant early French work in political economy. But if I didn't speak French, I wouldn't want in my Wiki article, either. Hansonfan 17:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Other proof that he speaks Latin and German is of course the great scene in the season two finale where he yells at God in His "own language" and I forget the episode but there's a scene where Leo is frustrating Bartlet a bit and the President says a quick sentence in German to express his annoyance. Incidentally, Bartlet is supposed to be an idealized version of Bill Clinton and Clinton also speaks a bit of German. And as for the fourth language, if you don't mind wild speculation (at least on the Talk page), if he planned on becoming a Catholic priest (that was why, after all, he went to Notre Dame in the first place), there would be a strong chance that he would know some Italian.-- 72.1.222.142 ( talk) 15:17, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
He can't speak Latin either since no one does. Reading a language out loud is not the same thing as conversing in it. I have changed the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.242.58.245 ( talk) 15:27, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
In my understanding of Abbey's "You speak four languages, why isn't one of them French?" was irony and simply her making fun of him misspeaking. Lyly _ Neuc ( talk) 16:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
i agree with the last comment by Lyly _ Neuc, or at least with the possibility that you are taking Abbey to seriously and more than that - to literally. She could both be exaggerating (again, high and low) when mentioning "4 languages", and understating when she states "one of them is not French". After seeing the show about 50 times over, my subjective view would be that Bartlet does speak French. Not only that, but even before seeing this discussion it came to me impulsively, even though i never thought about that concrete piece of detail. I did spontaneously however read Abbeys comment in a way described, not to say such observation is correct. I'd also add that I've seen everything made by Aaron Sorkin about 50 times over at least, and again my impression would be he doesn't think about these details when writing a line "You speak 4 languages". And finally, yeah, its fucking awesome Bartlet speaks Latin :) [Matija Radeljak] 22:21, 18 January 2017 (UTC+1)
When do we find out about the presidential library? What ep? -- Mattbray 10:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
It's much earleir in the series. Season Two ( Somebody's going to Emergenyc...) -- Darthbalmung 02:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Question: Barlet's Presidency started in 1998, did it not? That certainly fits with the elections in 2002 and 2006. This needs editing, no? -- Stephen K Bush 22:05, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to try to make a very small start on turning this into a genuine, encyclopedic, out-of-universe description. 199.71.183.2 17:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the cabibnet listing should be changed to show that Miles Hutchinson was not Secretary of Defense from day 1 of term 1. At some point in the first term he became secretary, but theres many military strategy moments early that he is not in the situation room where he would most definatly be had he been the Secretary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.81.12 ( talk) 02:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I must admit, the approach to Mile Hutchinson is very vague. We know he was Secretary of Defense in the very first episode (Pilot) which was the middle of Bartlet's first year. My guess is that he would have been Secretary of Defense since Bartlet began his first term (20 Jan 1999). Unless you have evidence to cite otherwise I reckon the wikipedia article is fine to state that Hutchinson was Secretary of Defense for all of Bartlet's presidency (1999-2007). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.185.37.66 ( talk) 16:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Please could this word be explained? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 ( talk)
It should be amended to show that his presidency was struggling to get anything done until the episode Let Bartlet Be Bartlet. ~ Dancemotron ( talk) 05:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Is it deliberate that the article barely mentions that he's a Democrat? I'm not a viewer of the programme, but I came to the article to find out which party he's a member of, and it's brushed over so lightly in the article that I had to come to the talk page here to get confirmation. -- VinceBowdren ( talk) 22:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Is this character really pro-life, in the sense it´s used in the USA, or pro-choice ? It was debated before if he could be qualified as "devout", and this was also debated before. I just got the impression that he´s not really pro-life. If so how could he have won the Democratic Party nomination ? 82.154.86.187 ( talk) 13:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Since this is just a fictional character, it wouldn´t be impossible that a more pro-life then pro-choice Democratic President to be elected. Sorry, but you seemed to confuse the question : "he does not feel it is the government's place to be legislating the issue". Then, he would be an anarchist ? Sorry but there legislation everywhere concerning abortion. Most European countries tend to be nowdays more pro-choice, unlike almost all Latin American countries, except Cuba, and most of the Muslim countries, who are pro-life. What you now said also contradicts what you wrote before, that he was pro-life : "In any case, the whole point is moot, because Bartlet is pro-life. This is made clear in the pilot episode when Leo mentions to Rev. Caldwell that Bartlet is scheduled to give a speech encouraging women to avoid abortion. Leo says that Bartlet does not publicly push for pro-life legislation, however, because he struggles with whether it is proper for him to impose his faith on the public at large." So he seems to be pro-life only in a platonic way or there are any chance he would vote to overrule the 1973 law ? Martin Sheen himself is more into the pro-life side. 81.193.190.42 ( talk) 20:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
This highly controversial issue is been always at stake at the American presidential elections in the last decades. I was just wandering if the things I asked are given a clear answear in the TV series. Anyway, it´s just fiction and, like it´s been pointed over and over, Democratic Party propaganda in form of TV series. The article doesn´t point, and that´s relevant, if he´s pro-life or pro-choice. It would make sense if this was added then. 85.240.20.90 ( talk) 21:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Look, to be honest, I quite dislike american politics. If there was a TV series with USA with an agnostic President, with a new Constitution, with the parliamentary system, that means a different Head of State and a different Head of Government, without trying to copy american politics, who is rather depressing from an european point of view, I certainly would find it interesting. In matter of "Democratic Party" propaganda in disguise, we just need to point that most of the actors are from that party, and they even show a presidential election were both candidates are pro-choice, and obviously "religious". There is a strange religious paranoia in American politics, which explains the almost total absence of non religious politicians and the discrimination of non religious people. See Talk:Discrimination against atheists. Even dismissing the Democratic Party propaganda question, it would be a monument to "political correctness". 82.154.86.57 ( talk) 02:54, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
(To the IP address intent on pushing an agenda) - If you don't care much for the program let alone the political system of the country it depicts then why are you participating in a discussion of topics to include or exclude on one of the television show's main characters? The show is over and finished, there aren't any new episodes and you aren't going to change anything by publishing ur opinion in a totally inappropriate manner in an irrelevant place. Yes, the program has explored abortion and the many view points attached to it but that makes it no less different from any other issue the program has explored. Terrorism, federal budget negotiations, drugs, international relations, states' rights, constitutional line of succession, the death penalty are all issues explored and many more but a fictional character's portrayed views on each issue doesn't require heavy abuse, unless of course your obsessed with what writers write in television scripts. On a side note, I'm sure from an American perspective, it was just as depressing watching the European countries' Parliaments squabble at each other during Question Time in the 1930s and 40s whilst their citizens were on the verge of being eaten alive by facism or communism or both. Regardless of which, this is a discussion forum on Martin Sheen's Josiah Bartlet, fictional President of the United States in the NBC television show The West Wing in case you needed reminding. To clarify anything, Matt Santos, the Democratic candidate who ran against Vinick in the 6th and 7th seasons actually told Leo McGarry that he himself was more prolife, a similar feeling that Bartlet has, but the two of them, in McGarry's words, were going to dance with the party that brought them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.111.61 ( talk) 17:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
it would be kind of cool... you could even try to put the signature (i think someone with more skills than i could make it up from -the only place i've ever seen it- the episode "bad moon rising", where it can be seen behind toby at 35'...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camilorojas ( talk • contribs) 05:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
This is more then obvious for a former Catholic like I was. It´s so difficult to be truly devout from a Catholic perspective, that means total commitment to the Catholic faith and it´s principles that a Catholic who disagrees with the Church in this issue, in any circunstance doesn´t qualifies himself as devout, because only anti-abortion legislation shows the protection of human life since the beginning. Not many Catholic politicians I can think about can be qualified as truly and that´s the real point "devouts". These are the cases of Lech Walesa and Julius Nyerere, who, despite their political differences, are or were strongly pro-life. All the Catholics who support abortion rights or hide that under a total morally unacceptable "choice", are at odds with the Church because they are under a severe mortal sin, and can and in my modest opinion should be denied communion. Believe me, for any person who passed intensily by the Catholic Church it´s easy to understand why the Catholics don´t have the right to disagree with the Church in such issues. That´s why this fictional charater is totally disqualified from being genuinely "devout". If anyone asks a decent priest or bishop he would say the same. That´s the end of the discussion, and I think I can speak in the name of those who don´t follow the Catholic Church anymore but understand fully this very controversial issue.---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.154.85.173 ( talk) 17:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
We are not starting this discussion again. We've had it several times and the overwhelming consensus has been opposed to what is really becoming a holy war on Wikipedia waged by this one IP user. The IP user is clearly a one-issue contributor to Wikipedia solely interested in the specific task of asserting in Wikipedia articles that Catholic politicians who are not 100% in favor of outlawing all forms of abortion are not "true" Catholics. If you look through this user's contributions (including the contributions of his/her various other IP avatars), that's all this user has done on Wikipedia. The user doesn't even care about the broader categories of Catholicism or abortion or about the Catholic Church's views on other issues. The user judges Catholic politicians solely on the issue of abortion (if they favor outlawing abortion, they're Catholic, or else they're not), which the user is free to do outside of Wikipedia, but then that user tries to use Wikipedia to assert that viewpoint. This is disruptive POV pushing that frankly may require administrator intervention. In the meantime, however, I say that we deny recognition to this user, who uses these talk pages to create controversy and generate discussion that will give him/her a forum for airing his/her viewpoints. Enough feeding. Deny recognition. This discussion goes no further. -- Hnsampat ( talk) 16:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
I've added an in-universe tag because the biography section is very long and completely lacks perspective from the real world. Feel free to remove it once the problem is fixed. – DroEsperanto( talk| contribs) 14:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
How do you change the cabinet table in this article? I'd like to correct the years of service for a member of teh Cabinet but when I go to "edit" for that section, I just see {{list of cabinet officials}} and then What's going on?
It's beyond silly that my summary of Bartlett's Presidency which I made the effort to add at the bottom has been removed. Your own criticisms of the article say that it needs to be expanded to include an "out-of-universe" style. My summary was reasonably based in fact, took into consideration an "out-of-universe" perspective and made a sincere effort to add a meaningful conclusion to the article which had been noticably absent. You editors obviously have no goal other than to be king of s**t hill. Word gets around and believe me, there are people who realize that there are very good reasons not to take Wikipedia seriously. I'm not sure I really see any good reason to continue to contribute to your discussion when it's not really a discussion; or to make sincere well-meaning efforts to improve your encyclopedia when it's not really an encyclopedia. Go bully other people, no one needs this nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.200.152 ( talk) 23:10, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
This sentence is unclear: "Sheen is one of the main characters of The West Wing, who appeared in all but thirteen of the episodes in the series, sporadically and during the final season, for a total of 142 of the 155 episodes."
It's not clear what "sporadically and during the final season" either means or refers to. I might assume it's intended to mean that some of the thirteen episodes in which Sheen did not appear occurred sporadically during the show's final season.
If so, then the above might be reworded: "Sheen is one of the main characters of The West Wing. He appeared in all but thirteen episodes, or 142 of the show's 155 total episodes. He did not appear in some of the episodes from the show's final season."
That the episodes in which he did not appear were spaced "sporadically" will be assumed by the reader. It does not need to be stated, as no reader will assume that the episodes in which Sheen did not appear were spaced evenly throughout the season (for example).
Would these changes be agreeable?
Bartlet's compassion is an important personality trait. I removed the words "[compassion] for those less fortunate"... Less fortunate than whom? Than Bartlet himself? If so, then is Bartlet's compassion for his political rivals (who are less fortunate when he defeats them, for example), equal to his compassion for the least fortunate among us?
Certainly not -- and the latter meaning is intended. My edit seeks to clarify.
To expand: Bartlett has compassion, especially for the least fortunate. It therefore seems unnecessary to add words that limit the description of that compassion to some unspecified class ("those less fortunate") -- which may, for example, include Bob Mayer (Vinick's speechwriter, played by Stephen Root -- who may arguably be considered "less fortunate" than Bartlet, Santos, Josh Lyman, and so on).
Surely Bartlet's compassion is for the "least" fortunate in society, and that is what is meant by the clause "for those less fortunate." Removing the clause clarifies that meaning because the clause is unnecessarily limiting, and confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salon Essahj ( talk • contribs) 01:50, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps the meaning of Bartlet's SAT result needs explaining to us foreigners who have never taken the test. According to the Wikipedia article on SAT:
The older SAT (before 1995) had a very high ceiling. In any given year, only seven of the million test-takers scored above 1580. A score above 1580 was equivalent to the 99.9995 percentile
Originally, I thought Bartlet's 1590 score was supposed to be out of 2400 (shows how much I know) but that didn't really sit with him being 1)very smart and 2)very focussed. 1590 out of 1600 is a bit different. Especially if you do it twice. Moletrouser ( talk) 10:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
I liked The West Wing, however, we should remember that this is an article about someone who never existed, except on a TV show where every other characters is fictional, too. So the article's length should reflect that the subject is not, in fact, notable at all. I also question whether Wikipedia articles describing specific episodes can count as reliable sources. It seems to be a circular argument: it happened because it happened. There are many good source notes and some which should be deleted because they are not actually sources, but merely descriptions on a different page which also have no sources. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:38, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
Using a Wikipedia article that does not have a source does not count as a reliable source. It is important to remember the policy on in-universe as well; this "person" never lived and never did things. "He" is fictional and so his actions are not relevant. The article should reflect real world experience: the actor, the producer, and not go on and on about the characters non-existent doings. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:18, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Under the "Presidency" section, the article includes the sentence, "Bartlet's accomplishments as President include granting amnesty to illegal immigrants from the Americas...." However, in the Wikipedia article on this application of the word "amnesty," it says: "In the illegal immigration debate, allowing illegal immigrants to legally remain in the United States is often called, usually by its opponents, amnesty.[22] Some observers contend that the word amnesty is improperly applied here. One reason is that the proposals under consideration include financial penalties for illegal immigrants. Another reason is that the government's current practice is generally to deport but not prosecute illegal immigrants and so there is sometimes no legal adjudication of 'guilt' to be forgiven."
I don't know what Bartlett did on the show regarding illegal immigrants, so perhaps someone familiar with this plot line can say if this the use of this word is NPOV or not in this context. Holdek ( talk) 00:27, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Even though in "the Pilot" Cuban immigrants were coming into the United States after escaping a hurricane fleeing Cuba, I don't recall amnesty being granted to them. It's possible it happened if someone wants to review the entire episode carefully or that in view of the current political situation over President Obama and Congress on immigration, that someone is trying to express a political point of view through Bartlet's page. I don't know which. 66.67.32.161 ( talk) 21:40, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: not moved per discussion below. Station1 ( talk) 06:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
Josiah Bartlet →
Jed Bartlet – Requesting move to common name (compare
Bill Clinton).
jamacfarlane (
talk)
13:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I have modified this article to change Abbie's name from 'Barrington' to 'Bartlet'. Nowhere outside of FanFiction and Pintrest can I see any source for her maiden name. Searching the West Wing transcripts also has no uses of the word Barrington across all seven seasons. Can anyone shed any light on the source of this surname? Josheen1128 ( talk) 20:56, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
Obviously a purely academic point, but given we learn that the electoral college margin was 303-235 in his first election, is it ever similarly detailed for his second contest? We do learn that Bartlett won 58% of the vote, so presumably it must have been a Reagan-style avalanche? Culloty82 ( talk) 16:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
The TV series Pine Gap named a US aircraft carrier after Jed Barlett. US aircraft carrier are named after US Presidents to honor them. Should this be mentioned here as an honor bestowed up on Jed Barlett? -- 85.212.251.3 ( talk) 19:37, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
The corresponding edit was reverted without explanation. Why is this not relevant? -- 195.63.142.16 ( talk) 19:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
I've made some edits concerning Bartlet's political career. This is to explain them so they may not be reversed.
In the pilot episode (which aired in 1999), Bartlet tells a story that explains he had a bad day at the state house 28 years ago; 28 years before 1999 was 1971, meaning he was likely first elected in 1970. There is no canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet had been elected before 1970. Furthermore, I updated Bartlet's infobox to display that he served in the New Hampshire House of Representatives from December 1970 to December 1984; this is because, in the real world, the New Hampshire Legislature convenes on the first Wednesday of December, and there is no reason to suggest this is any different in The West Wing universe.
I also removed the New Hampshire Board of Education from Bartlet's biography. In the show, Bartlet mentions former rival Elliot Roush, a school board candidate in New Hampshire. Bartlet mentions he defeated Roush in his first congressional campaign, but again, there is no canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet served on the New Hampshire Board of Education. I believe the source of this confusion is that Roush is running for a school board seat, which may have led some to believe Bartlet is a former school board member.
Bartlet is described as being a two-term Governor of New Hampshire, yet this article reflected him being a three-term governor. It appears that New Hampshire governors in The West Wing universe serve four-year terms as opposed to two-year terms in the real world. Because Bartlet was said to have been a three-term congressman, I edited his bio to reflect that he served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1985 to 1991 (three terms) and as Governor of New Hampshire from 1991 to 1999 (two terms).
There is also canonical evidence to suggest Bartlet married his wife Abbey in 1967. I've added that to the infobox too.
I hope this clears everything up. Hayden64 ( talk) 03:04, 3 December 2022 (UTC)