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The article title is duc de Vendôme, but it references his title as Duc de Vendôme. Which is correct? ~ Geaugagrrl talk 03:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
New York Times gives him as "Jean d'Orléans". So does Paris Match here and here. No one else is calling him "Prince Jean, Duke of Vendôme". Given name only is royal style and every RS is including a surname. Kauffner ( talk) 12:33, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Oppose Although I would prefer people be just referred to by their princely title or by their substantive/ducal titles (eg Prince Jean of Orléans OR Jean, Duke of Vendôme) Seven Letters 17:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:52, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Why is it deleted that he is the first Orleans head whose heir is a son of a commoner mother? -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 11:38, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm afraid you are mistaken. His mother is
Duchess Marie-Thérèse of Württemberg.
CSBurksesq (
talk) 16:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Ah. I misread. I thought he was talking about Prince Jean's mother. CSBurksesq ( talk) 15:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
The communiqué previously cited [1] does NOT say that Prince Jean is assuming the title of Count of Paris (just that he has buried his father). I've reverted the move. Rosbif73 ( talk) 12:30, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
I wonder if this article should go under Semi-Protection status. It seems to be the only way to stop this person, whoever he/she is, from editing the page (which are always the same edits and not constructive; just semantics). Every day I check my email and see someone, from a different IP address, has made the same revision over and over. CSBurksesq ( talk) 23:56, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
@
FactStraight: The previous source for Jean's titulature, la-couronne.org, doesn't verify that HRH is his new style, whereas the source now added, Montjouvent, states on p.13, "Le chef de la Maison royale de France porte le titre de 'Monseigneur' et son épouse celui de 'Madame', sans prédicat d'altesse royale."
Does the source say anything about the style and title of heirs? It seems totally illogical that prior to his father's death Jean would have been entitled to HRH, but then become a "mere" Monseigneur on acceding as head of house. I suspect that part of the issue is a difference between the title actually used as a pretender and the titles to which he would have been entitled as King of France. Presumably at least some Orléanists try to apply the latter. Indeed I suspect that "fils de France, and "dauphin de France" given on the French wikipedia page, fall into the latter category too. Does the reference have anything to say on the matter? Rosbif73 ( talk) 08:11, 25 February 2019
takes the traditional royal rank of petit-fils de France with the style of Royal Highnessand cites Le Petit Gotha (which also doesn't seem to be available online). I also note that {{ French Royal Family (Orléanist)}} has HRH for the whole immediate family (but has no citations). I would be strongly tempted to put HRH back into this artice for Jean's current title, primarily for consistency reasons, until or unless we can resolve the issue of inconsistent sources. Rosbif73 ( talk) 17:08, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I made a correction. The article previously stated that Jean was "Dauphin." This is patently false. Jean's son, Gaston, is Dauphin. The Dauphin is the heir to the throne, not the pretender himself. https://web.archive.org/web/20190711165734/https://www.la-couronne.org/la-famille-royale-de-france/ CSBurksesq ( talk) 01:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello
I see that Jean-Carl's name is written "Jean Charles Pierre Marie d’Orléans", but his name is actually Jean-Carl Pierre Marie d’Orléans c.f. fr:Jean d'Orléans (1965), and not Jean-Charles. regards 2A01:E35:8BA5:E5B0:13D:BF5C:A377:D35D ( talk) 10:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Should this not be moved to “Jean d’Orléans” for the same reason that the other French royal pretender was moved to Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (where Karl von Habsburg was cited as an example)? 2607:FEA8:C260:1F51:E0A7:5C1B:7FF6:D966 ( talk) 15:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect John IV of France and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 22#John IV of France until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. DrKay ( talk) 07:57, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Recommend that his claim to the "throne of France", throughout the page. Be changed to the "defunct throne of France". GoodDay ( talk) 17:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article title is duc de Vendôme, but it references his title as Duc de Vendôme. Which is correct? ~ Geaugagrrl talk 03:20, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
New York Times gives him as "Jean d'Orléans". So does Paris Match here and here. No one else is calling him "Prince Jean, Duke of Vendôme". Given name only is royal style and every RS is including a surname. Kauffner ( talk) 12:33, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Oppose Although I would prefer people be just referred to by their princely title or by their substantive/ducal titles (eg Prince Jean of Orléans OR Jean, Duke of Vendôme) Seven Letters 17:24, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Prince Jean, Duke of Vendôme. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:52, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
Why is it deleted that he is the first Orleans head whose heir is a son of a commoner mother? -- Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii ( talk) 11:38, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm afraid you are mistaken. His mother is
Duchess Marie-Thérèse of Württemberg.
CSBurksesq (
talk) 16:27, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Ah. I misread. I thought he was talking about Prince Jean's mother. CSBurksesq ( talk) 15:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
The communiqué previously cited [1] does NOT say that Prince Jean is assuming the title of Count of Paris (just that he has buried his father). I've reverted the move. Rosbif73 ( talk) 12:30, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
I wonder if this article should go under Semi-Protection status. It seems to be the only way to stop this person, whoever he/she is, from editing the page (which are always the same edits and not constructive; just semantics). Every day I check my email and see someone, from a different IP address, has made the same revision over and over. CSBurksesq ( talk) 23:56, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
@
FactStraight: The previous source for Jean's titulature, la-couronne.org, doesn't verify that HRH is his new style, whereas the source now added, Montjouvent, states on p.13, "Le chef de la Maison royale de France porte le titre de 'Monseigneur' et son épouse celui de 'Madame', sans prédicat d'altesse royale."
Does the source say anything about the style and title of heirs? It seems totally illogical that prior to his father's death Jean would have been entitled to HRH, but then become a "mere" Monseigneur on acceding as head of house. I suspect that part of the issue is a difference between the title actually used as a pretender and the titles to which he would have been entitled as King of France. Presumably at least some Orléanists try to apply the latter. Indeed I suspect that "fils de France, and "dauphin de France" given on the French wikipedia page, fall into the latter category too. Does the reference have anything to say on the matter? Rosbif73 ( talk) 08:11, 25 February 2019
takes the traditional royal rank of petit-fils de France with the style of Royal Highnessand cites Le Petit Gotha (which also doesn't seem to be available online). I also note that {{ French Royal Family (Orléanist)}} has HRH for the whole immediate family (but has no citations). I would be strongly tempted to put HRH back into this artice for Jean's current title, primarily for consistency reasons, until or unless we can resolve the issue of inconsistent sources. Rosbif73 ( talk) 17:08, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I made a correction. The article previously stated that Jean was "Dauphin." This is patently false. Jean's son, Gaston, is Dauphin. The Dauphin is the heir to the throne, not the pretender himself. https://web.archive.org/web/20190711165734/https://www.la-couronne.org/la-famille-royale-de-france/ CSBurksesq ( talk) 01:49, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
Hello
I see that Jean-Carl's name is written "Jean Charles Pierre Marie d’Orléans", but his name is actually Jean-Carl Pierre Marie d’Orléans c.f. fr:Jean d'Orléans (1965), and not Jean-Charles. regards 2A01:E35:8BA5:E5B0:13D:BF5C:A377:D35D ( talk) 10:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Should this not be moved to “Jean d’Orléans” for the same reason that the other French royal pretender was moved to Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (where Karl von Habsburg was cited as an example)? 2607:FEA8:C260:1F51:E0A7:5C1B:7FF6:D966 ( talk) 15:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect John IV of France and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 22#John IV of France until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. DrKay ( talk) 07:57, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Recommend that his claim to the "throne of France", throughout the page. Be changed to the "defunct throne of France". GoodDay ( talk) 17:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)